Question for BJ players

BJ anonymous

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Location
Paris
Fellow online BJ players, I've a few questions and observations. Perhaps you can share you own.

1) Do you take insurance? I noticed that the chances that the dealer gets a BJ is higher than B&M places.

2) Do you double on all 11s? I don't normally do that when dealer has Ace and higher than 8s. BS seems to recommend doubling on all 11s.

3) do you split 2 Fours against dealer's four?

4) Do you draw soft eighteen against dealer's 10?

5) draw on 12 against dealer's 2? Whenever I draw(or at least higher than 50% of the time), I seem to bust.

My last 2 games I followed BS to the T and found that it did not pay off. Started with 2400 bankroll and ended up losing it all. Might've lasted longer if I played my more conservative style, i.e. modified BS.

Would like your pointers, please.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
BJ anonymous said:
Fellow online BJ players, I've a few questions and observations. Perhaps you can share you own.

1) Do you take insurance? I noticed that the chances that the dealer gets a BJ is higher than B&M places.

2) Do you double on all 11s? I don't normally do that when dealer has Ace and higher than 8s. BS seems to recommend doubling on all 11s.

3) do you split 2 Fours against dealer's four?

4) Do you draw soft eighteen against dealer's 10?

5) draw on 12 against dealer's 2? Whenever I draw(or at least higher than 50% of the time), I seem to bust.

My last 2 games I followed BS to the T and found that it did not pay off. Started with 2400 bankroll and ended up losing it all. Might've lasted longer if I played my more conservative style, i.e. modified BS.

Would like your pointers, please.
1. No. Can you provide detailed statistics please?

2. Yes, except against an ace, unless dealer hits soft 17.

3. No, except in a single deck game.

4. Yes.

5. Yes. Please provide statistics.
 

BJ anonymous

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Location
Paris
Sorry GrandMaster, I do not have the statistics.

For the BJs, there was once the dealer drew 3 blackjacks in succession. That was just obscene. I'm not a novice and had been playing for years but in my short stint online, about 8 sessions, I've seen things that were pretty outragious. I know it's supposedly random but I cannot help but to feel otherwise. For example, out of the times that I raised my bet, at least 7 out of 10 times I lose.

Also, the two really bad runs I had were after I made some money and withdrew. Again, I don't know how to prove it other than giving you my password and you look at my accounts and play.

I've 2 more deposits going into neteller. If these bust out, I think it'll be the end of my foray into online gambling. I hope I stick to my word :D
 

betting88

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Location
canada
1. no
2. most, sometimes even double with T
3. no
4. half-half
 

dickens1298

Dormant account
Joined
May 30, 2004
Location
LA, California
When I play online, I generally tighten up my game quite a bit. I've found that online BJ - for whatever the reason - tends to be extremely streaky, and playing a modified BS seems to help me. It generally changes depending upon the bet, how things are currently progressing in the game so far, and other similar factors.

Personally, I've been sticking to Crypto casinos. MG - including 32red - just seems to play a little differently, and my success there has been far less than that at the Cryptos.
 

CasinoForumu

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Location
Bursa
1) No I never take insurance except if I click to yes by mistake.

2) I dont double on 11s? If I have 11 ,it is enough good for me.I dont take risk.

3) I dont split 2 Fours against dealer's four.

4) I dont draw soft eighteen against dealer's 10.

5)Of course I draw on 12 against dealer's 2 Because when I dont do,dealer wins 80% of time.
 

BJ anonymous

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Location
Paris
At B&M casinos I never take insurance, unless of course I'm distracted by the cocktail waitress. :p

However, I cannot help but to say that it appears that online dealers get more BJs than normal (sorry, no stats here).

Also, regarding drawing 12 against 2, it's damn cruel when the 10 card comes. Dang!
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)
You have to remember the chances of the card being 10, is 4/13 which is just over a third! Its not so unlikely! (hope my maths are correct)
 

BJ anonymous

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Location
Paris
UUngy,
Yeah, I realise that it's 4/13 chance that it's a 10 card. However, I was 'brought up' not to draw on 12 against 2 and whenever I decided to play according to BS, I find that I seem to hit a 10. It's like 16 against 10. I always draw 16 against 10 but the times when I don't, it ends up a 4 or 5 and as if adding insult to injury, dealer makes 21. :eek:
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)
If you look at the difference in stats, it seems a very small difference, but the correct thing to do is hit. I have seen similar situatiions, that whenever I hit, I get a jack, but then some times when the casino is "rigged" in my favour too!
 

mitch

Ueber Meister
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Location
UK
This is a no brainer you must play BS. This gives you the best odds and this has been shown to be so mathematically beyond all doubt.

The only possibe reason for not playing the strategy is if you believe the game is rigged in some way. However, if you believe the game is rigged what the hell are you doing playing in the first place.

Casino owners must love players who deviate from BS, adds to their profits and explains why the casinos constantly win considerably more on BJ than their house edge.

Mitch
 
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Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Location
UK
mitch said:
The only possibe reason for not playing the strategy is if you believe the game is rigged in some way. However, if you believe the game is rigged what the hell are you doing playing in the first place.
Agree with the rest of your post, but not the above. If you're playing with a bonus all you need to believe is that the game isn't rigged enough to negate the bonus. A huge difference.
 

antibes

Dormant Account
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Location
Ireland
I've just played blackjack at Ritz for their 50 monthly bonus/ 2000WR.

I followed the WoOdds chart religiously.

I was betting 2 a hand and made 1174 bets - 2674.

I just kept going down and down and finished 163 down.

My question is, does anybody strongly disagree with any one of the WoOdds strategy - like splitting 8's to me when the dealer has 10 seems a little strange.
 

arccos

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Best Not Said These Days
Heh... this ended up being almost the same as Mitch, but...

I always, always play proper basic strategy, unless I click the wrong button. There's really no reason not to, unless you believe the casino is somehow manipulating the deck. And if I suspect the casino is manipulating the deck, I just play basic strategy to fufill my wagering requirements on any bonuses, and withdraw. I haven't seen any casinos since 2001 I believe manipulate, and I don't think I would correctly be able to adjust my strategy to capitalize on the manipulation if I did.

While it may seem as if the casino is manipulating the deck to give you wild swings, don't forget you're playing around 12x more hands per hour online than you would live. At least that seems to be my estimation. That means per hour you'll get much bigger swings. Per hand it's the same, at least for me. I wrote down a per-hand B&M session (tedious), and compared it to a few hand histories, and it all pans out.

The only thing I vary is my bet size, which I do used to do wildly. Since I tilt when I get a losing streak and try to chase my losses, I 've found a betting method that prevents me from doing so. I now bet one unit when I lose, and two units when I win, with little change from that. That makes me enjoy the winning streaks much more, and the losing doesn't hurt as much as allowing myself to chase. It helps me focus on the winning... guessing how long the streak will last, figuring out how much of the streak I've "banked" if I lose the next 2-unit bet, etc. Alot more fun, even when I lose.

-Arccos
 

arccos

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Joined
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Location
Best Not Said These Days
antibes said:
I've just played blackjack at Ritz for their 50 monthly bonus/ 2000WR.

I followed the WoOdds chart religiously.

I was betting 2 a hand and made 1174 bets - 2674.

I just kept going down and down and finished 163 down.

My question is, does anybody strongly disagree with any one of the WoOdds strategy - like splitting 8's to me when the dealer has 10 seems a little strange.

He's explained the splitting of the 8's in a blackjack appendix, I think, but splitting makes sense to me. Most peoople seem to be worried about a 10 in the hole. The dealer only has a roughly 4/13s chance of having a 10. Including the A and 9, that's 6/13s, still less than half that have an 18 already beat. On top of that, if you split, every single card you can get will help you. Some will decrease your chances of busting, some will give you a 19, 18, or 17. Compare that to hitting the 16. 6/13s will give you a hand to stick on, all the others bust, giving you an automatic loss over half of the time. Split 8s is a pretty good deal to me, giving a fighting chance on two hands, for just one extra bet.
 

apwd

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Location
East Coast
The casinos must love you guys. In your minds, there's only one reason why Basic Strategy is called BS. I suggest you all start using your ESP instead. Then you'll at least be blaming the right person when your stacks go to zero.
 

antibes

Dormant Account
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Location
Ireland
Does anybody do the 25/625WR monthlies. There are at least 4 I know.

I was thinking of doing them, but after what happened at Ritz I would end up 60 if I did 4.

I wagered 2600 and was 160 down.
 

rreevy

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Location
UK
Hi antibes,

Here is what I hope is a definitive answer to your questions.

1) Don't take insurance. It has a high house edge. Yes, sometimes the dealer will have blackjack three times in a row when insurance is offered, but this isn't actually that uncommon (the odds of this happening at any given point are about 1 in 34). It will be more than made up for by the times when the dealer turns out not to have blackjack the next 5, 6, 7 etc. times he has an Ace up.

2) In most games, double 11 against everything except an Ace. But always double it in 1 or 2 deck games. Only double it in 3+ deck games if the dealer hits soft 17 (quite rare, but I believe it's the rule at RTG).

In European Blackjack (no hole card) you normally lose double and split bets if the dealer ends up with a blackjack. So don't double or split if the dealer has a Ten or Ace up, except for splitting Aces against a Ten.

3) You should only split 4s vs. a dealer's 4 in single-deck games where doubling after splitting is permitted. This rule also applies to 3s vs. a dealer's 8 - a rather counter-intuitive play, I always feel.

4) Yes, hit soft 18 against a 10. I don't think there are any exceptions.

5) Yes, hit 12 against a dealer's 2.

If you go to
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you can get the basic strategy for any blackjack game. It works out the strategy on-the-fly (except possibly surrender decisions, which at one time were built into the program), so I expect it's 100% accurate.

It really is best to stick to the basic strategy. It will save you heaps of money in the long run. Sorry to hear of your bad run at the Ritz Club. Have you tried the single-deck blackjack there? Unlike most Cryptos the minimum bet at the single-deck game is only £5 (at Intercasino it's £25). Betting that much will push up variance up, but the house edge is much lower than the 8-deck game (0.07% against 0.49%).
 

rreevy

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Location
UK
60? That's not so bad. For some reason I always play the monthly bonus at the Ritz Club quite aggressively - usually I bust out, but I've had a few big wins (300-400 or so) there.

BTW Sorry antibes, when I replied I was under the impression that you posted the original questions I answered. My mistake. But yes, I'd follow the Wizard's charts. His site is THE place to go for mathematical info about gambling. (I think I've come across more technical sites, but for info that I have a cat's chance in hell of understanding, I go to the Wiz) ;)
 

antibes

Dormant Account
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Location
Ireland
Well that's better.

Just finished 2 monthly bonuses at Intercasino and ended up $50 at BJ, so made $250. (although I was up $120 at one stage).

Also did $40 monthly at William Hill and won $20, then went onto roulette and won another $70.

So $380 in total.

Pity I lost 160 at Ritz.
 
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