Casino Complaint Purple Lounge, strange bonus roll-over, non responsive

fahrradfloh

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Germany
Well I didn't play at Purple Lounge for some time, and now on 14 December they invited me for some free spins.
I took them, and won 15.15. So I had to wager 25x15=378.
I don't know how much I bet exactly, but I guess around 1000 on slots, and wanted to request a withdrawal of about 180.

Then support told me I had to wager more, what seemed strange to me. When I asked how much, they told me they don't know, and cannot tell me. :eek:
Finally after chatting about 15 minutes with support they told me they would check it and send me an e-mail.

One week passed, and no e-mail.
So I e-mailed them again on 21 December. No response. Finally on 28 December I PM'd the rep here and got a response from support one day later. At least. But:
1) What will a player who doesn't know about Casinomeister do here?
2) The response was strange as well, here goes:

Dear Player,

The reason why you think the wagering requirement is wrong is becasuse in September you received two different deposit bonuses one for 150£ and the other for 75£. Also you got a promotion for 10£ that one of your colleagues offered you.

As well you won from the spins that was 15.15£ so that got on top of the wagering/bonus you had left.
Thats why your bonus/wagering is 155.15.

To cash out the funds in your account you need to complete the wagering requirement on the outstanding bonuses you have already received.
But however we can offer you the possibilty to four-fit the bonuses and cash out 27.56£.

Kind Regards

Anna
Purple Lounge Support


Ok. Just to make it clear, I lost an all deposits before, so my balance was 0. Strange that wagering still caries over, but well, if they think so.
The worst now is that the free spins have a maximum cashout, and I thought I ask if it would still apply as they carried over wagering from my past deposit as well. Here comes my e-mail:

Hello Anna,

thank you for your response.
So this basically means if I take a bonus and lose, I will still have to complete the wagering of the last bonus?
That would mean that playing with a bonus would be a large disadvantage in the future. Say I lose two or three times when taking a bonus every time, so from that point on I will virtually NEVER manage to meet the playthrough, thus never be able to win and manage to request a payout.

However, if this is really correct as I understand it is, I now still have to bet 3103 (155.15*20)?!
Is there a maximum cashout now for my account as the free spins as far as I remember do have a maximum cashout, however, the past bonuses did not?


I sent this e-mail on 29 December, and since then, guess what. No response.
 

De Beuker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Location
Netherlands
Thats strange, I play there quite often, and I'm sure there is no such thing as bonus WR carry-over.
If there was, my WR should be skyhigh by now, lol.:oops:
You can check your playthrough if you go to My Account, then View and Redeem Loyalty Points.
On the left side it shows your cash and bonusbalance.

Did you ask support first for the WR or did the cashier just refuse your cashoutrequest?
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
Hey wasn't it Purple Lounge who confiscated a player's winnings for trying to withdraw before meeting the wagering requirements? It was a similar scenario, the bonus showed as being done from the player's side, but they had tacked on extra wagering and the player didn't know about it until after they'd tried to withdraw. Instead of putting the funds back into the account they confiscated the winnings.

But now they'll allow another player to forfeit bonus funds and withdraw? :confused:
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hey wasn't it Purple Lounge who confiscated a player's winnings for trying to withdraw before meeting the wagering requirements? It was a similar scenario, the bonus showed as being done from the player's side, but they had tacked on extra wagering and the player didn't know about it until after they'd tried to withdraw. Instead of putting the funds back into the account they confiscated the winnings.

But now they'll allow another player to forfeit bonus funds and withdraw? :confused:

Exactly, it seems some players get screwed, yet others get let off. This IS another situation where an additional WR was tacked on, and the player didn't notice until he was ready to cash out. The only difference is that the OP didn't just cash out, he asked questions first. PL were therefore NOT in a position to spring the same trap, since this would have required the OP to have submitted a withdrawal.

Now, they are making it PERFECTLY CLEAR that zeroing out on past bonuses does NOT cancel the WR, and that they carry over and accumulate on each future deposit and bonus.

Maybe the PL staff can point to where in the terms this is written, so that players can read it and comply with it:rolleyes:

This is happening an awful lot recently with MGS casinos, yet when pressed they eventually deny that WR carries over, and that it was a "mistake".

Looks more like a SCAM to me, since players who DON'T press the issue, and HARD, end up trying to meet the carry over WR.

PL are deciding not to respond to the "hard pressing" they are getting from the OP, perhaps in the hope that he will lose patience and try to meet the carry over WR.

This "WR carry over scam" recently introduced by some MGS casinos is nearing the end, the publicity and case examples are making many operators look "dodgy", and this is starting to tarnish the MGS brand as a whole.

It is called "ClearPlay", but shoudn't it be renamed "OpaquePlay":rolleyes:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Purple Lounge is a rogue Casino and i would like to see them at the Rogue Pit .

Well, if they keep this BS up, they could end up there.

The problem is that they cut ties with CM after a disagreement over a PAB. It got them dropped from the accredited list.

Entry to the rogue pit requires evidence of wrong doing, rather than one player posting about a rogue experience.

This one could just be gross incompetence, and the way the CS agent said "I don't know" when asked the very straight forward question "what's my remaining WR" by the player shows this is a badly trained CS rep. Of course they "don't know", but they should go into the "back end" and CHECK, not just dismiss the query with a "dunno". Given the evident standard of training, it should not come as a suprise that the BS about how the WR carries over was given, rather than the CS rep instinctively realising this was not right, and looking into the matter in more detail.

If, however, this was a WELL trained rep, and this type of response was POLICY, then they DO belong in the pit in my opinion.

There is a BUG in ClearPlay. I see it quite frequently, and it causes random carry over of WR. The system fails to recognise a zero balance, even when the session is ended on zero, and a new session started for the next deposit. Other than this bug, the cause can be a "stuck game". It is very hard to track stuck games down, since the software offers no way to search the list of 400+ games for any that are "pending".

I had a similar problem at two casinos, where WR just kept on being resurrected every time I deposited. I zeroed out each time, and logged off. I even logged on and off with a zero balance to see if this helped. All to no avail, the WR just kept coming back.

After WEEKS of this, I found the problem. Both casinos had "stuck games" left over from sessions long ago. In the first case, I went to a game I hadn't tried in a while, and found the problem. In the second case, it really WAS a case of accepting that I would have to open every one of the 400+ games to rule out the possibility of a stuck game being the problem.
This problem is sufficiently common that CS SHOULD KNOW about it, and should CHECK for this possibility when a player complains that WR keeps carrying over when the balance has reached zero.

The OP should check their account at PL for any stuck games. Having ruled out this possibility, they then have grounds to make a formal complaint without risking "egg on their face" when it is investigated.

MGS will store a pending game FOREVER, so even an internet disconnect at the wrong moment from YEARS ago can lead to this problem.

I have often seen "casino error 2" (thrown off by the server) when playing, and it LOOKS like my bet was never processed, but sometimes the bet IS processed, and THEN the server throws me off WITHOUT ever indicating that the bet has been accepted. In games such as Blackjack, table and video poker, this would ALWAYS leave a "stuck game" in the system, and no indication that it had happened UNTIL in a future session the game is loaded again.

In the second case for me, not only did I find the stuck game, but the bonus balance became disconnected from the WR counter. Rather than converting 10 every 300 wagered, it showed random amounts. I checked the counter and it showed a WR of some 32000, yet the bonus balance would show values between 0.01 and 40, and seemed to go up and down as I won or lost during play. I ALWAYS had a significant cash balance whilst the bonus balance was doing this. The system looked completely broken.

I will see if getting rid of the stuck game I found fixes this very weird problem, or whether the system has been broken permanently.

I also remember that when I took the 500 for 500 bonus in December, I noticed my bonus balance dropped like a stone, more like it was counting a 2x WR, rather than what it should have been. I knew this couldn't be right, and that it couldn't be relied upon to show me when I had completed WR. If this was from the stuck game, it is one from YEARS ago, since before taking this offer, the casino had been off my PC for around 2 YEARS.
 

fahrradfloh

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Germany
Did you ask support first for the WR or did the cashier just refuse your cashoutrequest?

I didn't ask as I was sure that I had wagered way more than the required, so I just tried to cashout. Later I asked support when the cashier didn't let me withdraw.
 

fahrradfloh

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Germany
The OP should check their account at PL for any stuck games.
Thanks for the hint. I also noticed that occasionally when playing at a MG casino after a long time I get a message "Please finish your unfinished game" or something like that.

However, I have checked every game I have played at PL, and there is no such stuck game.

Besides this "special" (personal) case with PL and their "special" behaviour, it would be interesting to get a response from Microgaming about this as this bug or whatever it is probably affects a lot of players.

And I guess the mayority of the players don't have a clue about what is happening to them, don't know Casinomeister and eventually end up losing everything with virtually no chance to ever cash out.

I think this is one of the small things that happen and cost the whole online casino industry trust from actual and potential players. Unfortunately.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I didn't ask as I was sure that I had wagered way more than the required, so I just tried to cashout. Later I asked support when the cashier didn't let me withdraw.

Pity this didn't happen for the Greek player they screwed over earlier. Maybe they DID do something after that, even though they didn't even let the Greek player carry on wagering to meet the WR.

Had the cashier NOT blocked your cashout, you would have been in the SAME position as that Greek player, having submitted a withdrawal before meeting WR because the software had LET you do it. MGS software is SUPPOSED to STOP you withdrawing when you have not met the WR. Depending on the setting, it either blocks you completely, or tells you quite clearly that because you have not completed WR, your bonus will be lost, and only your cash balance cashed out.

Thanks for the hint. I also noticed that occasionally when playing at a MG casino after a long time I get a message "Please finish your unfinished game" or something like that.

However, I have checked every game I have played at PL, and there is no such stuck game.

Besides this "special" (personal) case with PL and their "special" behaviour, it would be interesting to get a response from Microgaming about this as this bug or whatever it is probably affects a lot of players.

And I guess the mayority of the players don't have a clue about what is happening to them, don't know Casinomeister and eventually end up losing everything with virtually no chance to ever cash out.

I think this is one of the small things that happen and cost the whole online casino industry trust from actual and potential players. Unfortunately.

Well, having ruled that possibility out, you now have PROOF that PL have some "funkified" variant version of MGS Clearplay, that officially "does not exist".

Now we have an MGS operator caught red handed with an unofficial "tweak" running under the MGS platform.

ClearPlay NEVER had this ability to carry over WR by DESIGN. It was designed to cancel WR whenever the player TRULY busted out. The issue with a stuck game is that the player has NOT really busted out, even though a balance of zero shows. ClearPlay recognises this, and interprets a fresh deposit as being an addition to a non-zero existing bonus balance, which is why WR appears to carry over on a zero balance. This is SUPPOSED to happen, so is neither a bug, nor a "tweak".

Where WR carries over when the player TRULY zeroes out, we either have an example of this bug (one that MGS refuse to acknowledge exists), or evidence of a deliberate tweak applied by PL to FORCE WR to carry over. The fact that CS said this SHOULD happen suggests this is DELIBERATE, but perhaps goes unnoticed by players who blindly trust the system to show the correct WR, rather than QUESTION it as you have.

Remember, the Greek player got screwed because he TRUSTED the system, and didn't think that a zero bonus balance would show were there still unfinished WR. Had he asked questions BEFORE trying to cash out, PL could not have confiscated his winnings.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I have just had a look at the PL terms and conditions. The general terms are well laid out, making it quite easy for me to spot the ROGUE clauses, including the one used to screw over the Greek player.

I then decided to look at the ClearPlay terms to check how zeroing out is treated.

Well, I would tell you if I could FIND the ClearPlay terms:confused:

As it stands, I have absolutely NO idea, they just don't HAVE any terms regarding how ClearPlay is set up.

This means that support can say ANYTHING to suit the occasion, it's a "secret term" that WR carries over even when you zero out, no wonder they are reluctant to communicate with you on this.

Each website bonus has slightly DIFFERENT rules regarding WR. One is 25x bonus, one is 25x B and Deeposit (in other words, 50x B). If you are Greek, it's has now INCREASED from 50x B to 50x B + D (in other words 100xB in a MGS casino:eek: WTF Purple Lounge!)

Canadians though, no longer get screwed alongside the Greek, it's JUST the Greek, no-one else, not even "the Markham area of Canada" gets left behind from the original Canadian restriction.

Gone too seems to be the Neteller deposit doubling of all WR. Couldn't find it in the general terms, nor the terms for the website promotions.

Gone too, or now another one of those "secret terms" they spring on Neteller players just like they sprung the "WR from past bonuses always carries, even if you zero out" on the OP.

Licensed in Malta (forget it:rolleyes:)

However, they show the eCogra seal, worth making a complaint on the grounds that NOWHERE in the terms does it say that WR is carried over to fresh deposits on a zeroed out balance (with no stuck games). In fact, nowhere do they even HAVE a set of "bonus terms and conditions" detailing how things work. They just have INCOMPLETE terms for each promotion, and these really NEED to be accompanied by a set of "general bonus terms" to cover the stuff NOT included with each promotion, such as how ClearPlay moves bonus to cash, and what happens when you zero out.

I don't think they have an active rep here any longer after the falling out over the Greek issue, so eCogra is your best option (they will at least reply to you, unlike the LGA:rolleyes:).
 

fahrradfloh

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Germany
5 more e-mails, a phone call and they are still "reviewing" to locate the problem.
They told me I had an unfinished game (which I did not have). Interesting that I recently noticed at another Microgaming casino that the system told me I had an unfinished game. I clicked on the link to go there, but there was NO unfinished game. Seems to be a bug.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
5 more e-mails, a phone call and they are still "reviewing" to locate the problem.
They told me I had an unfinished game (which I did not have). Interesting that I recently noticed at another Microgaming casino that the system told me I had an unfinished game. I clicked on the link to go there, but there was NO unfinished game. Seems to be a bug.

I have not seen this message before with MGS, even WITH an unfinished game. It appears that they have tried to address the issue by having the software issue this prompt, along with a link to the unfinished game - unfortunately, this too seems to have a bug (no unfinished game).

I will have to book some "lab time" to run some tests on this new feature:D

I HAVE noticed that there has been a new lobby design, one that allows you to build a personal favourites list alongside the usual "most played". It may be this update that has brought in this unfinished game notification system.

It seems further hard pressing HAS finally squeezed a confession from PL that this could be a bug, yet CS were initially saying that WR was SUPPOSED to carry over in ALL cases, no mention at first of an unfinished game being the problem.

Is this a deliberate scam? Have CS first tell the player to wager more in the hope they do so without further argument, but when they know the player isn't buying it, admit to there being a problem and try to negotiate their way out of it.

First, they offered a forefeit of bonus, player didn't bite, so then they offer to "investigate the problem".

I bet this ends with "Sorry, there was a mistake, you have indeed cleared WR, and can cash out your entire balance."
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Had the 'Unfinished Game' experience too. It ended up being an AWP (I think Six Bomb) where I had not redeemed the collected credits. Once this was done, the error disappeared.

Nate
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Had the 'Unfinished Game' experience too. It ended up being an AWP (I think Six Bomb) where I had not redeemed the collected credits. Once this was done, the error disappeared.

Nate

The problem with Six Bomb is that all wins can be gambled on the upper reels, so you DO have to press "collect" to have the win credited. This is unlike the other AWP games, where wins are credited, or entry to the feature game is pretty obvious. Six Bomb does not flip to a "feature screen" like the others, so it is easier to miss collecting a win.
 

fahrradfloh

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Germany
Well, Ian from support doesn't respond any more. The last thing he told me is that he was checking with tech department and he would let me know as soon as he had any news. That was on January 17.
I sent 3 (kind) e-mails from then, and no response.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Well, Ian from support doesn't respond any more. The last thing he told me is that he was checking with tech department and he would let me know as soon as he had any news. That was on January 17.
I sent 3 (kind) e-mails from then, and no response.

Far too long.

PM the rep, with a view to following up with a formal PAB. Technical errors with gaming software need to be taken SERIOUSLY. This is MGS, not Top Game, and we don't expect software errors to be "swept under the carpet" for months, as Top game tried to do with the "missing wilds" scandal.
 

Przecinek

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Location
Respect-land
Never had problems with PL...
In fact I played their happy hour promo today :p
Their CS seems more inept than rouge IMO. They prolly told you, you need to wager more, because this is the easiest thing to say when you don't really have a clue what's wrong, yet have to say something.

Will see how this ends.
 
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