Providers moving the goal posts

Kroffe

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Is there any way a player can check if a game has actually been tested, and when it was done?
Like when DoA was moved from flash, the way it played was completely different, surely that should have been retested, so why can't we check its been done?

Did not play much Doa before the flash-rework.
Are you saying the slot was even better back then?

Only game ive played a buttload of before and after flash-rework is Reel steal.
And while i think that also plays different, i would not say it plays worse.

Agree that one should be able to see when it was last tested, who tested it, and what was the change that made it require a re-test.
 

Harry_BKK

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Is there any way a player can check if a game has actually been tested, and when it was done?
Like when DoA was moved from flash, the way it played was completely different, surely that should have been retested, so why can't we check its been done?
Did not play much Doa before the flash-rework.
Are you saying the slot was even better back then?

Only game ive played a buttload of before and after flash-rework is Reel steal.
And while i think that also plays different, i would not say it plays worse.

Agree that one should be able to see when it was last tested, who tested it, and what was the change that made it require a re-test.

NetEnt has a test certificate for each game, they use iTechLabs. Too lazy to look for the DoA2 specific one as there are hundreds if not thousands in the order of publication and no search function. :oops:
 

Bloatgoat

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Are'nt games hashed or stamped with a version number in a way? Upon every change, that number should change along with it as well.

But i dont believe that there is one version of a game as some games might have higher / lower / changed volatility upon casino's request. Yes the base game is the same but the outcome could be completely different.
 

Guntis

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Below is an interesting point from the iTechLabs Frequently asked questions page which makes me think...

Read full
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here

itechlabs-RTP-FAQ.jpeg

I have a feeling that for me the time is about to come through to say goodbye to online gambling. And its time to go back to real casinos and feel that real hard cash in my pockets and with my own hands.
 
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Bloatgoat

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And @trancemonkey still claims that my 65k run was just luck and not a bug. LOL.

The casino could have verified the RTP / TRTP on montly basis and figured out that the game was doing a bit too good. As a result the game got nerfed and stretched out. I'm so glad more and more users are coming here to express what they experience the last half year to a year.

It's moving from gambling to entertainment, where entertainment is the goal to hook the player as long as possible (TOD > Time spend on device). We're not stupid yo.
 

dionysus

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yes but 2 opinions make it a fact now
And @trancemonkey still claims that my 65k run was just luck and not a bug. LOL.

The casino could have verified the RTP / TRTP on montly basis and figured out that the game was doing a bit too good. As a result the game got nerfed and stretched out. I'm so glad more and more users are coming here to express what they experience the last half year to a year.

It's moving from gambling to entertainment, where entertainment is the goal to hook the player as long as possible (TOD > Time spend on device). We're not stupid yo.
it isn't exactly the industry dictating that but the market.
You don't see a thread about a simple single reel classic slot 400 pages long getting everyone talking but Bonanza does. The industry is doing exactly what the masses want..bigger, better, flashier, more lines, more ways, throw in a kebab
 

Bloatgoat

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"The market" ... Come'on. Read Providers moving the goal posts for example. A 98% theoretical RTP with no real chance of 'winning'. 7 out of 10 deposits just straight into the toilet without standing a real chance.

This is just greed on top of the providers and casino's. Liability as low as possible. Games nerfed for obvious reasons. It's okay tho. Keep pushing that mentality and sooner or later more of the enthusiastic gamblers will simply move on. They will feel that, financially.

Having a 20 cent bonus and having 8k of winnings is just too absurd if you ask me. Try that in a landbased, it's justified you wont get anything near 500 either.

Typical: when a casino is busy related to serving it's players and games, wins seem to be distributed more often then when a casino is dead (think of playing at 05:00AM). Another typical that slots are'nt random and that the winning randomness is dependent of amount of active players as well. If one of you has book of RA, there's a "Spin counter" at the bottom of the slot. It should change among every spin, you can pretty much count if you hold space and the spins in between. When it's calm i can bet your ass that you can wager all you want, when it's busy the chances of hitting big is more convenient.
 
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Slottery

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So to get best advantage i should play at times when casino have most active players playing same game or only in provider level just to play certain game through any casino?

Would be quite interesting to read full of theory how these "tweaks" to games are made in practice gross all providers and casinos. Have seen quite interesting statements in this thread which haven't been clarify in real life, maybe because everything is so well hidden.

Only threoretical plan how to implement these all tweaks how everything is synchronized and communicating together would be really interesting to see. When read these "know for sure" theories about for example how casinos and providers are sharing all player information to make it possible to get exactly planned result for every session depending from many different aspects like amount of players playing game at the time, is bonus or real money used, is player playing freespins, how much player have previously won/loss and much more.

Would just to be curious how in theoretical level would make this all together work between casino and all different providers and make it comply with regulators.
 

Bloatgoat

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Yes, give it a ago in between 19:00 and 23:00. After that its usually starts to flat-out. It's no different then a landbased casino. The slots at day are more tight compared to the night(s).

I dont think it's that complicated related to your second theory. I know that when i play a game to a certain provider my ID is being send, and the ID of the casino i play at. Apart from verification, it's still possible that the overalls wagering from my casino is simply re-distributed over that provider.

I know it sounds very stupid, but this is my thoughts on the provider and casino thing. If anyone thinks it's different feel free to comment. It's a myth in my mind that my play from country Y is distributed with player X from country Z.
 

Slottery

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I meant that i personally find it hard to believe in so complicated mechanism built between all providers and casinos together. Making everything so customized just sounds quite high end technology compare to what i've seen in game providers back offices and then making these all to work and communicate together as one very complicated system,

I've only seen how many different casino platform users have been itching their heads when trying to sort out how to get results and balance updates synchronized from some new provider who send them totally different way than any other.

Many of these casinos are built to provide these games to players, building this huge system with all integrations really would be some very huge project and for me hard to believe it exists. It just go way ahead what i've seen in real. Many things could be possible in theory but trying to bring them in practice even in theoretical level have quite huge challenges and whole industry secrectly working together yet without single ex-developer or person in high enough position to bring it to news.

But enough for me about this, we all have our opinions and based them to facts and feelings we have. I happily stand corrected, but until see these explanations will just believe what have been mostly told as facts.
 

Bloatgoat

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Many of the models that they are using are problerly within extend to what a landbased is using, or at least a fork from such a model. They wont be re-inventing the wheel over and over again, too much effort, too much waste of resources.

We know that playing on game Y from Country Y could yield a better "RTP" then player Z from Country X. Some country's do have a lower rtp in general compared to the same game. Users complain that payouts on casino Y is far lower then casino X in the same country. Game Y hits better on casino Y then casino X again.

There's a difference, for sure. And again; i think its a far more easy model to have a provider, hook up the casino's, and distribute each casino's wagering among to it's own base of players. Liability is small; potential (financial) damage of hitting a huge jackpot is no bigger then what was initially brought in by casino Y, pretty much safe and solid system with a desired RTP the casino wants.

It is funny. Few days ago i was stamping on Book of ra with a 5 euro bet. 1000 euro in the drain in barely 10 minutes. The next day > i reattempt and win ~ 960 euro getting my money back, in within the RTP of 96% if you ask me. After that, game goes complete flatout.

It fuels my thoughts that games are independent of the casino you are playing, your not outside with other casino's competing. Its a within the box thing, not outside of the box.

If i play using 10 cents bet or 10 euro bet; i see the same wagering going on that we talked about here too. The difference is is that the 10 cents bet gives me a far better playtime compared to the 10 euro bet, but the same behaviour is going on in the end. You either wager to what your initial deposit was (10 euro spin) or you keep sticking to one and the same amount of cash untill the point you hit it and start losing everything.

I dont believe in the "You have to wager x amount of spins anymore to hit a bonus" theory either. It either happens or not.
 

Borgie

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And @trancemonkey still claims that my 65k run was just luck and not a bug. LOL.

The casino could have verified the RTP / TRTP on montly basis and figured out that the game was doing a bit too good. As a result the game got nerfed and stretched out. I'm so glad more and more users are coming here to express what they experience the last half year to a year.

It's moving from gambling to entertainment, where entertainment is the goal to hook the player as long as possible (TOD > Time spend on device). We're not stupid yo.

Please don't be so derogatory about Tranche. He has given up a lot of personal time to help explain stuff here. Regardless of whether you believe him. Gambling is just that.. you will always lose in long term. The end....
 

Bloatgoat

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Well the guy mocked me all over the place, even dedicated a post on me saying to take a break 'because' of me on this forum. Now that other people come out and state my exact point that i stated here earlyer, we need to cut the guy some slack? Nah. Maybe some people need to climb out of the cloud that they where living onto, and that even respectable casino's are changing their coarse these days.

We cant always win; duh; we know the risks. It takes money to make money if your lucky enough. But this secret and hidden (tweaked) house-edge the casino has is becoming bigger and bigger.
 

Kroffe

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Its pretty fantastic this cover-up that involves all providers world over, and all casinos, still manage to stay secret.
One would think there would have leaked evidence of such a thing from some place, but no...

No wonder you dont trust Trancmonkey. After all, he is a part of this secrect hidden major world-wide cover up since he develops slots.
He knows everything about the rtp-fix that the vip-manager told you about and yet he keeps quiet.

Real shame those emails dont exist anymore, or any other kind of proof to show what you are saying is the truth. Its almost like its just made up in your head, but we know better, dont we Bloatie?
;)
 

Bloatgoat

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I did the effort to go through the email one more time again, to really make my claim hard, but unfortunately i trashed the incoming emails, and there's no sign of that old communication since my mail client pretty much cuts 2/3rd of the initial email when i hit reply.

But its not so hard to figure out which casino this was; i've stated it already in this and another thread. What makes any of you not curious and email the casino yourself? Ask 'm how exactly the RTP is calculated, and that you've heard that that particular casino uses a different method of redistribution.

I'm pretty much sure that you'll get the same answer i got here, and if not i'll take the effort to contact 'm again, just for you and any other disbeliever who thinks that i'm talking out my rear.

Lol. My casino REMOVED lil devil, dead or alive, anything that is known to have huge hits = out of the collection.
 
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slot_zombie

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What I think happened to games like 300 Shields, Montezuma and Raging Rhino is that to go with the general trend they adjusted the math profile towards more super mega and hyper wins (which are still very rare), which then takes RTP away from the usual gameplay.

Completely agree with this theory. The 6OAK animal wins in the rhino base game are now super rare. Bonus seems struggle to get past 25x as well. As for those super hyper wins to compensate... they're hiding well.
 

Bloatgoat

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If i deposit 50, i am 99% percent of the time guaranteed i will make a 'makeover' of that initial deposit. No matter how my game strategy is, easy, hard, aggresive, soft and on lowest bet; i see the same repeated pattern over and over and over again.

When your on the other side of the medallion, i.e the winning, it is the typical any game hits for a certain few moments, nothing can go wrong. ANY game. It's a designed mathematical algorithm to keep you hooked, any casino is build on getting as much as time from you as possible, the longer you play, the bigger the odds the casino makes a plenty amount of money on your playing by wagering.

Lots of people here claimed that for certain games you need x amount of spins to trigger a turnover or bonus. I've tested these nummerous times. Its not happening. The funny part is when i logged in into my casino not using my portugese IP adress but my dutch mobile (4G), the odds do change and the game(s) look more alive then ever. I'm getting random and various hits all over the place. My initial deposit is wagered a few times more now before it hits 'blanco' and throws you down.

So my assumption is: because ive won 65k previous year, my account could potentially be flagged. Because i'm playing from portugal in a portugese online casino (legitimate) the RTP is altered. Why do i get complete different results when doing this from a Dutch IP? The RTP in holland is usually higher then most other country's, since the online industry over there brings in more on avg.

Anyone explain to me why i experience these things? Why are there such safety measures build in that my account is being pinned down like that? Why we dont see a trend anymore of a game fully independent and thus supposed to throw a big hit at any spin we might do? Or that my deposit is being wagered with the rest of the depositting players into the casino. Less liability, more profit for all.

There's alot of FUD written on online casino's and people that bring the feel good shit among the table. Well i'm talking hard cash here, the amount of deposits vs loss or the amount of deposits to the point that i actually did had profit; its awefully low the last few months to be honest.

I repeated this tremendous amount of times; but going to a local landbased offered me a far better chance then playing online. Even if the RTP was 82% ,if you know your game and machine, you know when to make the right choices really. So it took me alot of cash lol to come to this conclusion. But i always knew that something is up. Something is just not honest in the way we are told. Rules could be bent. Games can be altered. Payouts can be limited (i.e just play Extra chilli on 10 euro a bonus buy, and keep repeating to the 24 spins. Your always winning that within marging and no explosive 1000+ euro with a full screen purple symbols on a high multiplier). Believe me all is programmed in a FAVOR of both casino / provider.

Dont be fooled people. Ramming up 100 spins into a certain game, and getting hit 100x is usually to compensate over those 100 spins your about to do. Its programmed to wager you. Bonus hitting shit. No matter what your strategy is here.
 

goatwack

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My mobile's from 2006. It can run Final Fight really badly, though it's nothing like the arcade Final Fight.

I don't take my phone out for this reason
 

Kroffe

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If i deposit 50, i am 99% percent of the time guaranteed i will make a 'makeover' of that initial deposit. No matter how my game strategy is, easy, hard, aggresive, soft and on lowest bet; i see the same repeated pattern over and over and over again.

When your on the other side of the medallion, i.e the winning, it is the typical any game hits for a certain few moments, nothing can go wrong. ANY game. It's a designed mathematical algorithm to keep you hooked, any casino is build on getting as much as time from you as possible, the longer you play, the bigger the odds the casino makes a plenty amount of money on your playing by wagering.

Lots of people here claimed that for certain games you need x amount of spins to trigger a turnover or bonus. I've tested these nummerous times. Its not happening. The funny part is when i logged in into my casino not using my portugese IP adress but my dutch mobile (4G), the odds do change and the game(s) look more alive then ever. I'm getting random and various hits all over the place. My initial deposit is wagered a few times more now before it hits 'blanco' and throws you down.

So my assumption is: because ive won 65k previous year, my account could potentially be flagged. Because i'm playing from portugal in a portugese online casino (legitimate) the RTP is altered. Why do i get complete different results when doing this from a Dutch IP? The RTP in holland is usually higher then most other country's, since the online industry over there brings in more on avg.

Anyone explain to me why i experience these things? Why are there such safety measures build in that my account is being pinned down like that? Why we dont see a trend anymore of a game fully independent and thus supposed to throw a big hit at any spin we might do? Or that my deposit is being wagered with the rest of the depositting players into the casino. Less liability, more profit for all.

There's alot of FUD written on online casino's and people that bring the feel good shit among the table. Well i'm talking hard cash here, the amount of deposits vs loss or the amount of deposits to the point that i actually did had profit; its awefully low the last few months to be honest.

I repeated this tremendous amount of times; but going to a local landbased offered me a far better chance then playing online. Even if the RTP was 82% ,if you know your game and machine, you know when to make the right choices really. So it took me alot of cash lol to come to this conclusion. But i always knew that something is up. Something is just not honest in the way we are told. Rules could be bent. Games can be altered. Payouts can be limited (i.e just play Extra chilli on 10 euro a bonus buy, and keep repeating to the 24 spins. Your always winning that within marging and no explosive 1000+ euro with a full screen purple symbols on a high multiplier). Believe me all is programmed in a FAVOR of both casino / provider.

Dont be fooled people. Ramming up 100 spins into a certain game, and getting hit 100x is usually to compensate over those 100 spins your about to do. Its programmed to wager you. Bonus hitting shit. No matter what your strategy is here.

So whats the problem?
Play, win. Change ip, win again.

And you wonder why you dont get any 5000x hits on extra chilli...
That is weird indeed. Its not like 5000x hits are rare, they should happen almost every bonus.
 

Playford7

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So whats the problem?
Play, win. Change ip, win again.

And you wonder why you dont get any 5000x hits on extra chilli...
That is weird indeed. Its not like 5000x hits are rare, they should happen almost every bonus.
Oh is that the method of slot success.
Once my compo arrives I’ll use the lot on bloatgoats ‘method’ and report back when I’m a millionaire.
 
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