Providers moving the goal posts

[Kroffe]

youve a skewed sense of morality, so we cant trust you
the wolrd needs bees, ya greedy, hungry, selfish bastich


View attachment 118267

Dude, i dont eat the bees!

 

[Halvor]

I dont think its rigged, but atleast by my standards, it is kind of evil.
But its a more fun kind of evil compared to for example the tobacco industry.

I bet the handful of evil people in the gambling industry also run the tobacco industry.

 

[dionysus]

Dude, i dont eat the bees!

yes, but they died of loss of self fulfillment
i talked to two and they said, 'fuggit, wasted day, wasted effort, id sooner the kids become lawyers'
then they flew off, i head a bang, and theyd offed themselves
sad



stop bee suicides now, save the bees

 

[paul7388]

Dude, i dont eat the bees!

Don't blame you. Especially after what happened to your cousin that kept eating bees.

 

[Kroffe]

yes, but they died of loss of self fulfillment
i talked to two and they said, 'fuggit, wasted day, wasted effort, id sooner the kids become lawyers'
then they flew off, i head a bang, and theyd offed themselves
sad



stop bee suicides now, save the bees

Eh, i got a better idea!

 

[dionysus]

Don't blame you. Especially after what happened to your cousin that kept eating bees.

View attachment 118268

i just spit soda
lol

 

[@@@]

Halvor hammering your business to the point of no income will surely hurt. When I wrote in Evolution chat how the system works you sent the troops assuring me that everything is legit. When I insisted that what you do is illegal the lie brigade stopped writing and been banned. You really don't like to read people sensing the fraud and joining up do you. One day will grow to a planetary scale scandal, your minions hired everywhere to discredit any opinion not in line will be left in hunger without jobs.

 

[Halvor]

I don't work for evolution, I have never worked for evolution nor do I have any financial interest in how they perform.

Your a tin foiler, you have absolutely no proof and it's solely based on the fact you lost money.

Maybe your better off sticking to norsk tipping mate, or do they also scam you?

 

[dionysus]

Halvor hammering your business to the point of no income will surely hurt. When I wrote in Evolution chat how the system works you sent the troops assuring me that everything is legit. When I insisted that what you do is illegal the lie brigade stopped writing and been banned. You really don't like to read people sensing the fraud and joining up do you. One day will grow to a planetary scale scandal, your minions hired everywhere to discredit any opinion not in line will be left in hunger without jobs.

ah
Evolution is crooked
Proivders moving goalposts
i get your metric

oh? and having been banned?
called THAT in one

 

[dionysus]

on the plus side, there's one way to move into a new name and thread

 

[trancemonkey]

It also needs to state that in a random game dead spins are more prevalent in relation to your bet, the more you raise the more deader it becomes. Bet 20c it plays good then switch to 20eu not a win spin in sight. The abundance of huge hits on small bets only is not a coincidence, they are programmed to burst on low bets for the exposure then people betting larger trying to replicate it.

Why they need to state anything about the game changes, why is there the need for versions and changes to occur? If game is faulty and they were not capable at picking up during testing, the game should be discontinued. I accept design changes, anything else is to fix a faulty game or to make it faulty to generate more money.
If you never heard about a successful game havig the maths changed then you never heard of raging rhino, dead or alive??? The more successful equals to more people playing them getting ripped off. Your honesty will be valid and hold any importance in this context when you quit your job and next one will not be related to gambling, you come across knowledgeable to the people because you are an insider. However you can alter the knowledge to suit your agenda that may include personal benefit, spreading false info that will be further shared and becomes the truth for the lack of a better official version, there is no way you would vouch for other providers honesty if it wasn't for your well being in the industry.

Even if you want to expose the whole operation, your job simply forbids by its nature to come and tell the truth, you can't bite the illicit hand that pays you to not only make slots but spread a certain vision and info on the forums. How many slot producers are there on this or other forums telling how the things work? None. You've been sent with this mission to propagate fabricated views about how slots work, the perpetual randomness and how great is the industry. And I fully understand. It's all about the money.

This entire post is so far from reality. You're entitled to your opinion if course, but its quite wrong.

Whatever you may think of my reasons for being here, you dont really have any proof of what they are other than your own skepticism - that's fine by the way. Being sceptical is a good thing!

 

[trancemonkey]

I also have to mention some of the other comments @@@ made...

1. No one is going to scrap a game because of a fault. Games cost a lot of money to make, and the idea that they can just easily be written off is nonsensical.

2. I have no proof if Raging Rhino of DOA were changed. I very much doubt they were, and conversations I have had with people at those companies suggests the maths was not changed.

3. I would think it's obvious to anyone gambling anywhere that losing spins are more prevalent than winning ones. This is pure common sense.

4. The idea that you have more losing spins as you stake up is also untrue. Most games use linear maths for all bets (I.e stake is irrelevant). Yes there are some that may change maths by stake but these are in the minority, and I can also guarantee they will not make it worse as you increase stake. If you feel this, its nothing more than a feeling and has no basis in statistical reality. Remember, if you always play at 40c, and then you stake up after a win to 120c, you are seeing far less games at that stake than you see at your normal stake, and because of this fact, you feel it more. If I play 10,000 games at 40c and only 1000 at 120, it is easy to compare the two like for like whereas this would be statistically incorrect and misleading to do.

5. I have no personal agenda,or anything to gain from doing this. And if I am "trained" to spread this information, then by who? For what purpose? Enough people on here have met me, so I must be a bloody good actor and very good at hiding the truth if what you say is true, because it is also hidden from me, my wife, my kids and everyone that knows me!

 

[cncas2123]

Starting to feel like I have just entered The Twilight Zone, don't you just love it when insiders like @@@ come onto the forum and enlighten us with their undoubted knowledge.......

 

[snorky510238]

So if games that have been around for a while are taken down/unavailable and come back as an updated version what has changed if it’s not the maths?

What you cannot help but notice with these threads is that players like myself who play games over and over suddenly notice a vast change in play but when we express these observations we are told we are seeing things that are not there.

The one thing that the vast majority of people saying that we are seeing things have in common is that they have a vested interest in online gaming.

The thing the people have in common who are saying games are tampered with is they don’t have a vested interest. Strange that isn’t it?

 

[trancemonkey]

So if games that have been around for a while are taken down/unavailable and come back as an updated version what has changed if it’s not the maths?

What you cannot help but notice with these threads is that players like myself who play games over and over suddenly notice a vast change in play but when we express these observations we are told we are seeing things that are not there.

The one thing that the vast majority of people saying that we are seeing things have in common is that they have a vested interest in online gaming.

The thing the people have in common who are saying games are tampered with is they don’t have a vested interest. Strange that isn’t it?

Well, many things...

They may have converted to HTML5 from Flash.

They may be fixing a fault (if there is a compliance issue, the game has to be taken down immediately until it is fixed.

The may be purely changing the maths, but quite why they would fix a game that is performing well, I don't know. But if this were the case, it wouldn't need to be taken down while it was being changed.

As I've said, I cannot say games have not had maths changed after release.

 

[Slottery]

I assume one what's asked are some real numbers from game history which could show some of these changes in gameplay. When these changes in some games after version update like from Flash to HTML5 or any possible point when that could have happened, could be shown in numbers more than feelings.

Then there could be some conversation around topic but as long only argument is one players feeling, maybe backed up that other player feels actually bit same when mentioned, there's not really much where to start.

I assume here are not many people in forum who have much vested interest in online gaming in that level that people would argue anything what's not true just because of their own interests. These big conspiracies are usually happening in very high level and known by very few as otherwise these big secrets would have been published long times ago.

Just always would like to rely more in facts than feelings, i hope someone could point these vast changes backed by some gameplay history or other facts to get conversation to next level where some facts could be compared and differences shown. It's just not that easy to agree that something is wrong/rigged if there's nothing backing up that statement but players feeling.

 

[@@@]

Trancemonkey, when you quit IGT I'm sure Evolution will take you with open arms. Question is are you allowed to quit after a certain level of insider knowledge? When you mention valuable assets like kids and family, totally uncalled, I can see why you are fearful, your whole post is fear inspired and you bring no arguments to the table. If a goverment can't bring down the mafia you can at most shred some light, you can't take them down. I'm not requesting that you call them out since its not worth but to at least reduce the amount of false info spread with ill intent.

As you can see your job becomes harder by the day with more and more people joining to behead this hydra, it's a hard pill for you to take when people with arguments undermines the system, your future isn't bright but you made your own bed. You wrote a wall of text in defense and fear bringing no proof, everything is hidden behind numbers and systems I get it, but at least point me to some palpable info not just words. Are you aware how many people are commiting suicide because of gambling, how many steal from companies to fund the vice, people that are being told slots and roulette are random and then they face the reality after everything is lost...the more you deposited the higher target you become. All you did is to say hey you're wrong here is how actually works, dismounting none of my arguments. You know I'm correct.

All you need to Do, beside bringing some evidence to support yourself, is to simply say the short and hard truth, the slots are not random and roulette is controlled, at least masked in a way or another and you will earn my and others eternal respect.

Edit to add that you've been funny trying to cover up the fact that slots are communicating info to the server like location balance etc. There you lost it pretty bad, players were not supposed to know that do they, you acted surprised also haha. Is the guy making the crucial error swimming with fishes as we speak?

 

[snorky510238]

They may be fixing a fault (if there is a compliance issue, the game has to be taken down immediately until it is fixed.

In this case where a game is found not to be complying there is to my knowledge no compensation for players who played it during that period.

I appreciate it would be extremely difficult to implement but they have in theory invested in goods that were faulty so to speak.

 

[Kroffe]

In this case where a game is found not to be complying there is to my knowledge no compensation for players who played it during that period.

I appreciate it would be extremely difficult to implement but they have in theory invested in goods that were faulty so to speak.

That part actually is a bit bs.
If you bought someone and that thing turned out to be faulty, you would get money back.

Really, all bets made during a period where a slot is not functioning properly should 100% be paid back.
Almost weird that is not the case already.

 

[slotter999]

In this case where a game is found not to be complying there is to my knowledge no compensation for players who played it during that period.

I appreciate it would be extremely difficult to implement but they have in theory invested in goods that were faulty so to speak.

I've replied to this previously but in cases where machines have been faulty and under paying - customers have been compensated. Search for blood suckers bug as an example.

It works both ways I might add - where machines have been over paying there have been instances where casinos have tried to reclaim those winnings. There is a nextgen game where someone on this forum won considerable amounts of money from a bug and the casino tried to get heavy.

There are also instances where over paying slots the casinos have just taken the hit. The Microgaming batman game and the netent robot jackpot game are two examples.

I really should do a better job of remembering the names of these games

 

[snorky510238]

That part actually is a bit bs.
If you bought someone and that thing turned out to be faulty, you would get money back.

Really, all bets made during a period where a slot is not functioning properly should 100% be paid back.
Almost weird that is not the case already.

I admit it would be very difficult to implement due to many things such as when did the game start underperforming, why and many other things. You would also just have to trust what you were told as you would never get to see any data etc.

This almost says well it’s okay for games not to comply as long as they get fixed. Making us the Guinea Pigs that pay for it.

 

[trancemonkey]

In this case where a game is found not to be complying there is to my knowledge no compensation for players who played it during that period.

I appreciate it would be extremely difficult to implement but they have in theory invested in goods that were faulty so to speak.

Actually, I have been part of a couple of situations... both times had compliance issues. In one, we could work out exactly what people should have won when they didn't, and the casinos reimbursed those players (paid for by my company at the time). The second time we couldn't work it out easily at all, so we made a donation to the value of the what we believed the underpayment was a gambling charity.

So this should, and does, happen.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Well, many things...

They may have converted to HTML5 from Flash.

Lmao. I work in WEB for a good 10 years. My breakfast is a bowl of HTML5, CSS3 and a good portion of healthy PHP coding along with it, having my own 15+ managed servers by a team of 2 somewhere in the netherlands. I think i host along the almost 3 grand of websites here.

A game changed due to conversion from Flash (since it's being abandoned bigtime by browsers, but you can still run it) to HTML5 is really nothing. And it does'nt require any of the game math to be changed while your at it. All the calculations eventually takes place onto the server, and not client. Client can only press buttons and that's about it. You dont need to change any of the math for this to port.

I'm sorry but that argument is a bad one. I think my theory is this. A game provider offers a bunch of games. And per game every avg wagering is being tossed in one big pile and random/evenly distributed.

Some games are new and in order to give it that attention about big pays RTP may be moved over from game to game, where one game today is hot and is performing like shit tomorrow. Some games are altered and will never perform as they did before, Its with a reason.

I've seen games being changed where you normally could tap the space to stop the rheels instant, to now sit it out per spin. But the payback it before had was never there again. Another game, Pirates something, which had 2 features and a max bet of up to 50 per spin. They changed it back to a 4 euro per spin max bet since the 2nd feature (with the money bags) got exploited.

The game runs again like complete shit, wasted over 300 spins to never come close to even a 50x bet.



It's always funny that threads like these halfway completely go offtopic. Nobody doing any work or posting otherwise at least some facts and that are not just within the UK. The reason why i got here was proberly due to the authority it has over gambling, but at the end of the day even this website is filled with affiliate marketing as well. Give the peasants bread and water...

Actually, I have been part of a couple of situations... both times had compliance issues. In one, we could work out exactly what people should have won when they didn't, and the casinos reimbursed those players (paid for by my company at the time). The second time we couldn't work it out easily at all, so we made a donation to the value of the what we believed the underpayment was a gambling charity.

So this should, and does, happen.

Lol. I never heard a casino writing me or others like Hey dude, you've bin playing this game and that game, we're sorry but because of a technical malfunction on the base game, we're compensating you as a valued player. We're sorry for any effort. They dont give a shit lol. If the game was bricked they still hide behind their providers. Providers not going to compensate any of you.

 

[trancemonkey]

Lmao. I work in WEB for a good 10 years. My breakfast is a bowl of HTML5, CSS3 and a good portion of healthy PHP coding along with it, having my own 15+ managed servers by a team of 2 somewhere in the netherlands. I think i host along the almost 3 grand of websites here.

A game changed due to conversion from Flash (since it's being abandoned bigtime by browsers, but you can still run it) to HTML5 is really nothing. And it does'nt require any of the game math to be changed while your at it. All the calculations eventually takes place onto the server, and not client. Client can only press buttons and that's about it. You dont need to change any of the math for this to port.

I'm sorry but that argument is a bad one. I think my theory is this. A game provider offers a bunch of games. And per game every avg wagering is being tossed in one big pile and random/evenly distributed.

Some games are new and in order to give it that attention about big pays RTP may be moved over from game to game, where one game today is hot and is performing like shit tomorrow. Some games are altered and will never perform as they did before, Its with a reason.

I've seen games being changed where you normally could tap the space to stop the rheels instant, to now sit it out per spin. But the payback it before had was never there again. Another game, Pirates something, which had 2 features and a max bet of up to 50 per spin. They changed it back to a 4 euro per spin max bet since the 2nd feature (with the money bags) got exploited.

The game runs again like complete shit, wasted over 300 spins to never come close to even a 50x bet.



It's always funny that threads like these halfway completely go offtopic. Nobody doing any work or posting otherwise at least some facts and that are not just within the UK. The reason why i got here was proberly due to the authority it has over gambling, but at the end of the day even this website is filled with affiliate marketing as well. Give the peasants bread and water...

For someone as talented as you say you are, you don't know a single thing about casino game development.

Yes maths dont need to change.
Front end needs a complete rewrite though.
Therefore it's a new submission to compliance and a new version of the game.

I still say there is no reason whatsoever to change the maths on a successful game.

That does not mean they didn't... just that I can't think of why they would.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I could hack up a checkerboard, that would spit out the results the casino or the game provider gives me. The rest around it ( like the actual game ) is just the fancy around it.

No i'm not into casino development, really i dont care much about it. I have my profession and thats where i stick to. I'm a frequent (high roller) player and i'm telling after years of playing that it's just not what it seems, and that games in a way do feel altered. If i take a bonus, it's wins all across the globe with every game up to a certain point, and it makes me lose from that point on. It's called Being Wagered in my opinion.

We know that games do send out details like if the player is on bonus money, we know that it sends out of you have a pending withdrawl or not. It's bin posted not so long ago on this forum(s). The typical dead spins untill you hit your next deposit. There's proberly alot more happening that we do not know about then just to 'trust' the casino that every spin is a random event.

It's funny that you say this. When you play book of ra deluxe (6), just put a bet, and hold spacebar, there's a noticable lag in between not winning and winning. Really try it out yourself. When you do get a win, it lands way quicker then when you dont have a win. I mean it's proberly in your eyes a bad way of programming, but i think more and more casino's moved from independent to a global TRTP and that's what i'm seeing when i play.

It's fun that i as a new player can hit up to 10k and withdrawl 8k in total of just a 100 deposit. And never win anything at that particular casino again. I withdrawl 65k at the other casino and everything is just a guaranteed loss no matter my gameplay. Trust me i've done some serious amount of hours into these strategics. I wont be wagering in particular more then i depositted. I'm talking about a monthspan. As i said i think my playersaccount is just flagged or i need to wager a serious amount before luck strides my way again.

You cant tell me that it's a natural thing, as other players experienced the very same on these and other forums. Casino's could have a thousand of depositting players and you dont tell me we all together experience this loss streak lol.

Landbased is just different. I win today, chances are great that if i come back next week i can reproduce the same again. It's the nature of the slot and which i'm more confident with then online. Play long enough and you'll know the average streak a machine does.

Oh and i'm sure, that landbased has their own trics too. But they dont go through all the (software) effort to make it look like it's as random as possible. They just buy machines, install these on the floor and go by a default configuration unless the RTP needs to be specified else. It's a common thing that the better paying machines are set to entrances or at least most visible in public. It's proven that when people see a machine paying or people winning they are triggered to play themself even more.

I've spoken alot of hours with a VIP manager on a casino floor. It was a very interesting time when i was a VIP back then. Apart from all the dinners and offerings i had, there's a structure in the way a landbased casino (and i'm talking about a proper one) is designed. Most proper casino's have machines of 85% up to 92% RTP and they dont really tell which obvious is the better paying machine.

Play long enough again, and you'll get a sense which is the more trigger happy machine then the other(s).