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Protect yourself. Demand pre-approval.

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Steve Russo, Sep 8, 2010.

    Sep 8, 2010
  1. Steve Russo

    Steve Russo Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    I am doing my best to end the scam that quite a few casinos have been using lately to get out of paying winners. Please take a look You must register/login in order to see the link., give your opinion and/or suggestions, and join the effort to stop these rip offs.

    [Max says: for the benefit of our readers I include the post in question here, as authored by the OP:]
    (Full disclosure: I am the manager of Gambling Grumbles and am sick and tired of getting complaints from players who have been victimized.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2010
    4 people like this.
  2. Sep 8, 2010
  3. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona
    I have been reading many posts here where players are complaining of not being paid for the reason of chargebacks from some unkown casino somewhere in time. But mum's the word, they won't say when or where. So the player has to comb through their deposit history, casinos and finances to find this needle in a haystack, when the accusing casino supposedly has this information right there.

    It is my opinion that casinos should not make this claim without giving the player involved the pertinent information to back up the casinos reasoning for non payment or lock outs.

    If I go to a doctors office, my personal information is available to me, not to Jo Blow, but me. If I do business anywhere, the bank, the store whatever, my information is available to me.

    Casinos for some reason have set themselves on an untouchable pedestal and feel the player has no business knowing what the reason for the casinos charges towards them are, unless the player is willing and able to go through the many hoops of making the casinos cough up the information, where last resort is always having to have a third party, a moderator step in and retrieve the information for the player.

    To me this should be part of the casino accreditation standards, that a player's information should be private to all but the player and should not be kept secret from that player. If there is an issue with the players accounts, pay types or whatever, the casino should be courteous enough to their patrons to make any and all information positive or negative to the player.

    A registered player is the owner of their account and if a casino has a problem with any discrepencies then they should correct the problems with the player.

    Most of the threads here regarding this issue has been about a problem never arising until the player makes a withdrawal. So basically a casino has no problem with any issues as long as you are depositing and losing. But let the player win and they pull rabbits out of their hats not to pay, in some cases, which seem to be increasing.

    Doing anything less than what I stated, is a tactic of holding a players funds longer and continue drawing interest on the money until they are made to cry uncle and give it up.

    For players like myself that has lost trust in the major part of this industry, these issues certainly don't help to ease my distrust.

    I agree, pre-approval is the best way to go and it should become standard practice.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Sep 9, 2010
  5. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    The problem is that gamblers don't want to wait, they want to play immediately. Dodgy casinos would claim anyway that new negative information has come to light between the approval of the form and the withdrawal.
     
  6. Sep 9, 2010
  7. voltage1

    voltage1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    GA
    I believe .. when I first joined here I read a post by Bryan (maybe someone else) where he stated that he tries to pre Qualify with all the document BS BEFORE playing....for this very reason.
    I have tried to at least send my documents the day I join the Casino ever since .... just in case..... of course I have only played at Accredited casino ever since also..:p
     
  8. Sep 9, 2010
  9. all4greed

    all4greed Now we can do business.

    Occupation:
    Misc.
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    I'm going to go against the grain but there is no way I'm going to submit my personal information to a place where I might not ever have a withdrawal or want to play at again. It's a waste of my time and just allows more opportunity for someone to use my ID for identity theft or some other illegal reason.

    Years ago there was a disgruntled casino rep that posted a list of customers information on some website; hundreds of players, if not more, and I was on that list. Name, address, credit card info, etc. Anyone could pull up the information. It was pretty surprising to see all my info posted for anyone to use in whatever way they wanted to.

    Besides, the invalid ID issue is BS. Just another lame casino excuse.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Sep 9, 2010
  11. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona
    Got to agree with All4greed, my thinking cap must have been on sideways. I certainly wouldn't want to have to send docs prior to playing as I have stated in a previous thread a few weeks back. I misunderstood the post.

    What my mind was wrapped around is this thing of casinos suddenly coming up with a player having a black mark somewhere in their play history, but won't say where or when, after deposits have been made and docs already approved.

    To clarify, once a casino has received a players docs and all is in order, this should include a check as to whether there is an issue in that group, that would cause a problem for a withdrawal.

    If there is a problem, the casino should work with the player to resolve it in a timely manner. Not just say, sorry, we found a discrepency here, but you have to figure out what and where, when they know, supposedly.

    Afterall, this is an adult industry, why are players sent on easter egg hunts?
     
  12. Sep 9, 2010
  13. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    ok i want to say this if i seed my account with a wallet then the way i see it is the wallet q t or other is a recognized business that the casino knows
    and i have employed them as a ghost writer if i can make that analogy

    and thats all the casino needs in this case of funding without a credit card
    end of a short transaction both ways
     
  14. Sep 9, 2010
  15. kmartinusa

    kmartinusa Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    Under the Radar
    Casinos should in no way "raise the bar" for withdrawals.

    If a casino wants to scrutinize a customer's record prior to allowing their depositing and playing, then fine. Please and by all means do so, it makes sense for their business and allows for them to access risk. Even do it before ALL deposits if they want to.

    If there is a higher bar or threshhold for paying the same player, then this is wrong. Once a casino allows a player to deposit whatever amount and make wagers, any and all wins/losses as a result of that specific deposit that was allowed by them are completely legitimate and should be paid. This is of course assuming that whatever terms/conditions related to bonuses are met as well.

    I believe that it is morally and ethically wrong and a flawed business model to look for a reason not to play a winner after the casino has been transferred funds that are subsequentially put at risk.

    Of course, the nature of internet gambling is a little bit more complicated as we are not cramming bills in a machine...I am sure that if one wanted to deposit and not pay that there are ways to do so.

    Perhaps there is a solution somewhere. I do not understand the relationship between when a casino actually has the deposit in their bank account and for what period of time these funds are at risk of chargeback.

    I do think that there is probably a balance between a players history, chargeback time limits and payments that make sense for all involved.

    Kevin
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Sep 9, 2010
  17. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Ditto that. There's no easy way to make a bad casino good...affiliates can warn players though - this has proved relatively before when done em masse. Just can't think of any other way.
     
  18. Sep 10, 2010
  19. Tony@Tower

    Tony@Tower Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Tower Gaming
    Communication is always going to be the best weapon that the consumer has, in any industry. If you have a bad experience at a Casino, you should talk about it.

    (And if you have a good one, you should also talk about that! Too much focus on negative experience, imho :p )
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Sep 11, 2010
  21. kangamick

    kangamick Dormant account

    Location:
    Australia
    One thing I have never understood is why do I have to send in ID when I deposit with Neteller. To join neteller you have to send in a driver's licence or passport scan and phone, power or gas bill scan. The casino's know this, but just like to make it hard to get our winnings out. :mad:
     
  22. Sep 11, 2010
  23. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...
    It's the responsibility of the casino per their licensed authority to confirm ID and although many have systems in place to check you out during registration that system isn't foolproof.

    Deposit websites are a different entity with their own T & C's. This chart is interesting as it shows the requirements from this gaming authority. You'll see that gaming sites should be requesting pre-verification for pre-paid cards vs. other deposit forms. They also state doc's should be requested during regular play and again during a withdraw.

    Neteller is an additional tool in your favor but can't complete the verification process. Example: What if they let a minor deposit into Neteller and the casino never verified. It would be the gloom and doom of that casino for sure.

    Good question.. :thumbsup:
     
  24. Sep 11, 2010
  25. kangamick

    kangamick Dormant account

    Location:
    Australia
    So your saying they should request doc's ie drivers licence or passport while playing and then again your drivers licence or passport for a withdraw? how many times do you want players to send them? Don't you think once should be enough? If Neteller can verify doc's i'm sure it's the same process casino's use???
     
  26. Sep 12, 2010
  27. all4greed

    all4greed Now we can do business.

    Occupation:
    Misc.
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    I'm surprised there was an actual chart. Hard to read but very interesting.
     

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