Progressive withdrawal limitations at Omni Casino? (Playtech)

[zreb]

I was looking through the terms and found the following which limits your withdrawals from progressives:

Old / Expired Link

"6.5.4 Progressive Jackpots are paid in installments depending on the size of the Progressive Jackpot. A player can cash-out up to $30,000 USD (or the equivalent amount in EURO, GBP or other currencies) per month for jackpots below $250,000 USD. A player may cash-out up to $75,000 USD per month for jackpots between 250,001-1,000,000. A player may cash-out up to $200,000 USD per month for jackpots between 1,000,001 to 3,000,000. Jackpots greater than $3,000,001 shall be paid the rate of $300,000 USD per month until jackpot is paid in full. Withdrawals depend on verification of jackpot and all required documents as set in clause 9.4 and adherence to all terms and conditions of the casino set forth in these terms and or, bonus/promotional terms that player may have received at the time of the jackpot win. The Online Casino reserves the right to amend these installment amounts."


Since Playtech awards casinos the money in a lump sum, this is very unfortunate and illustrates a desire by the casino to pressure the player into playing back winnings. I was also under the impression that it disqualifies a casino for accredited status as stated here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/


While not as terrible as some casinos that may take years to pay out, if you win a big enough progessive you might be looking at 8 months of withdrawals to get your money. It also seems to indicate a casino that doesn't value their customers and would rather take advantage of them. The casino also sometimes require players to physically mail a copy of notarized id to the Philippines for normal withdrawals, another method which I suspect may be designed for players to play back the money before cashing out.

This is unfortunate because otherwise from what I've seen, Omni is reasonably well regarded on here. And again, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears as if the limitation on progressive withdrawal should disqualify them from being accredited.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It looks like it's designed to spread payments over a year at most, so the bigger the jackpot, the bigger the instalments.

It's not good enough though, and the instalments should be governed by the capacity of the processor, not the size of win. For UK players, there should be no problem paying it all at once, although this would probably have to be by bank wire due to the large amount, far too large for VISA refund or eWallet (although VIPs might be able to square payments this large with Neteller without having their accounts frozen for verification/investigation). I had no trouble receiving £40K through Neteller a couple of weeks ago, so many of the limits Omni have are far too low. Whilst big withdrawals can be split up due to individual transaction limits, there is no problem sending multiple transactions to the full amount. I have seen this a few times in Neteller where my bigger withdrawals get split into chunks, but are still paid in the same "run".

Professional poker players move much bigger sums through Neteller, so it is likely that if someone did want to receive their £3,000,000 in one go into Neteller, it's something that could be done by prior arrangement.

A bank wire for the full amount might be better though, as if questions are asked (the taxman for example), it gives a clear trail to show where the money came from, and that it is legit.

 

[dunover]

I think he's quite right (the OP) to be honest. Omni should NOT be accredited with this term - have they slipped through the net, or recently added it? Nor should any site that requires the stupid practice of sending notarized docs to the Philippines. These practices are almost exclusively Playtech who seem (unlike IGT) to care very little about the integrity of the operators they license their software to.

 

[asadzareef89]

well whatever i wouldnt mind getting 300000 a month for a year as some of the PT sites have mothly limit of 5000-10000 so compare this to them u would find out why its not bad whatsoever

Also i think in CM terms it says as long as its paid within proper installments of 3-5 but i'm not sure

 

[jetset]

Well, I know that in the unlikely event of my hitting a major progressive jackpot I would be stressed out if payment was spread over 8 months, given the nature of the online gambling industry.

I would be concerned about everything from the company going bust before completing pay-outs to fraud, and I would definitely be happier with the whole amount won under my control from the get-go.

This must be quite a little interest earner for the operator as well, assuming that the jackpot is paid out in cash to the casino by the software provider.

Playtech must know about player feelings on this progressive jackpot payment question...it's been raised countless times and is justifiably an issue with players. Their inattention implies that they are happy or complicit in the status quo imo.

 

[chayton]

Omni and Fly also both have a 10,000/mo cashout limit on regular withdrawals, Bryan will need to change that on their review page thingie - it currently says unlimited.

 

[dunover]

Well, I know that in the unlikely event of my hitting a major progressive jackpot I would be stressed out if payment was spread over 8 months, given the nature of the online gambling industry.

I would be concerned about everything from the company going bust before completing pay-outs to fraud, and I would definitely be happier with the whole amount won under my control from the get-go.

This must be quite a little interest earner for the operator as well, assuming that the jackpot is paid out in cash to the casino by the software provider.

Playtech must know about player feelings on this progressive jackpot payment question...it's been raised countless times and is justifiably an issue with players. Their inattention implies that they are happy or complicit in the status quo imo.

This is exactly how many would feel - it's not as if these Playtech millions are being held by the government or state, or lodged in a trusted bank or financial institution in some form of Escrow as they would be for a lottery win, but they are in some offshore bank account and under licensing in some banana republic. The operators are outside your national jurisdiction usually and if they don't pay or 'lose' some cash they can do so knowing full well that they at worst would be dealing with the matter in a civil court and it would be 'legitimately' obfuscated in some sort of insolvency/takeover issue.
This has got to stop. Winning a jackpot should be a source of glee, not gut-eating stress.

 

[Balthazar]

I never understood why the software provider doesn't pay the progressive money directly to the winner instead of going through the casino first. Who the heck wants his/her money frozen "somewhere" by "someone"? Because that's exactly what it is; not only you don't know where your money is but since casino owners aren't exactly the most transparent people, there's a good chance that you won't even know WHO has it.

That's a lot of dangerous question marks and bad things did happen in the past. What's the name of that Canadian lady who won a 10M progressive again? The one that ended up with a tiny fraction of her progressive jackpot while the casino literally stole the rest?

 

[lnspin]

This is actually not that bad… Better then some land based casinos… Most major progressives in Land based casinos, such as wheel of fortune and major millions are paid in 20 yearly installments.

 

[Finn]

I never understood why the software provider doesn't pay the progressive money directly to the winner instead of going through the casino first.

The casino paying it makes the taxation more predictable, and potentially lower. If I were as a Finn to win a Playtech/Microgaming (both incorporated at Isle of Man) jackpot on Isle of Man casino, I would pay heavy taxes. If I won it on casino based on Malta, and the casino pays it to me, it will be tax free. NetEnt is incorporated in Sweden, if they paid the jackpots directly from Sweden, then some very high Swedish taxes would be taken out of each Netent jackpot.

 

[chayton]

At least Omni doesn't have a 'one size fits all' policy like the Playtech casinos that have the $9K/month no matter how much you win.

Say you win a jackpot of a million bucks, at Omni you'd get paid $300K per month, so in 4 months you'd have the whole thing. At one of those other casinos who pay only 9K it would take over NINE years.

 

[Cleveland]

At least Omni doesn't have a 'one size fits all' policy like the Playtech casinos that have the $9K/month no matter how much you win.

Say you win a jackpot of a million bucks, at Omni you'd get paid $300K per month, so in 4 months you'd have the whole thing. At one of those other casinos who pay only 9K it would take over NINE years.

I was thinking that. I know many say they would be worried but honestly after two months of being paid 300K each month I think I would be pretty happy and too drunk (not really.......maybe a little) to worry about a thing . As you said the first million would be paid so quick it's almost silly to worry about the casino going bankrupt in that time. Yes I know it's possible. Now the 9K a month stuff would have me extremely upset / pissed / worried.

 

[GrandMaster]

The casino paying it makes the taxation more predictable, and potentially lower. If I were as a Finn to win a Playtech/Microgaming (both incorporated at Isle of Man) jackpot on Isle of Man casino, I would pay heavy taxes. If I won it on casino based on Malta, and the casino pays it to me, it will be tax free. NetEnt is incorporated in Sweden, if they paid the jackpots directly from Sweden, then some very high Swedish taxes would be taken out of each Netent jackpot.

The different taxation of winnings from EU and non-EU sources is peculiar to Finland.

 

[Finn]

The different taxation of winnings from EU and non-EU sources is peculiar to Finland.

I think it applies to at least Sweden also, at least by quick googling on poker taxation in Swedish. I think it may even apply to most EU countries, not sure though.

 

[Casinomeister]

The accreditation standard reads as follows:

Must pay out progressive jackpot wins in full or in reasonable chunks, regardless of any terms and conditions limiting payouts.

Now I believe Elliot and I discussed the definition of "reasonable" some time ago and came to the understanding that these payments were within reason. It's far from the default Playtech $9-10k per month and it applies to an extremely small percentage of players.

I'm willing to revisit this issue if necessary with Elliot in London in a few weeks.

edited to add: I don't think anyone PMd Eliott to ask for his input on this thread. Did they?

 

[zreb]

The accreditation standard reads as follows:



Now I believe Elliot and I discussed the definition of "reasonable" some time ago and came to the understanding that these payments were within reason. It's far from the default Playtech $9-10k per month and it applies to an extremely small percentage of players.

I'm willing to revisit this issue if necessary with Elliot in London in a few weeks.

edited to add: I don't think anyone PMd Eliott to ask for his input on this thread. Did they?

Thank you for clarifying the accreditation standards.

The payout rates listed are certainly much better than other casinos that may take years to pay out, but I personally would not be happy with a casino choosing to hold onto my money for 6 months without a necessary reason to do so.

Assuming that Playtech do in fact provide casinos with the money in an up front payment, I see very little reason for a casino to hold onto the money for any longer than necessary. Any security or identity concerns should be resolved before the first payout is made, so that should not be an issue. The only reason I can think of for holding onto a player's money any longer than necessary would be in hope that they play back their winnings before they can withdraw.

In case there are more benign reasons for extending the payment schedule, I would be happy to hear from Elliott or Omni what their particular reasons may be. I have PM'd Elliott accordingly so that he may provide his perspective should he choose to.

 

[dunover]

If Elliot can confirm that his casino would receive the WHOLE payment from Playtech for their lucky player, then I'd be interested to hear what justification there could be in making the said player even wait 4 months at 300k per month for a 1.2m jackpot? For what reason would they need to withhold 900k after paying the first 300k? I believe the 'reasonable chunks' term is too lenient. If I'm incorrect here, let's hear any valid excuse from the casinos concerned why 1.2m does not equal 1.2m but seems to equal 300k+300k+300k+300k.

MG pay it all, Netent do so why not?

 

[xxshepxx]

I'd be interested to know what the casino (not omni, shall remain nameless for now) did with the £5k odd jackpot i won on a nd bonus, where the max cashout was £100


I didnt see a penny of it, and it awarded me the progressive, it didnt go back into the pool.

 

[KasinoKing]

I'd be interested to know what the casino (not omni, shall remain nameless for now) did with the £5k odd jackpot i won on a nd bonus, where the max cashout was £100

I didnt see a penny of it, and it awarded me the progressive, it didnt go back into the pool.

I expect the owner of the casino went online and ordered some trousers with extra large pockets...

KK

 

[chuchu59]

well whatever i wouldnt mind getting 300000 a month for a year as some of the PT sites have mothly limit of 5000-10000 so compare this to them u would find out why its not bad whatsoever

Also i think in CM terms it says as long as its paid within proper installments of 3-5 but i'm not sure

That may well be your opinion but since the casino receives the money in a lump sum there is no reason why it pays out in installments. Furthermore, there may be some whales who bet aggressively hoping to hit the progressives. If they spend say 100k monthly to play the progressives 300k per month in installments is a slap in the face.

 

[Googobucs]

14 months at 75k per on a 1M hit.

 

[OC Elliott]

Hi Everyone,


Peak Interactive policy relating to progressive jackpot winnings is a company policy that has been in place for more than two years now. We had worked with Casinomeister when creating this policy. Section 6.5.4 is a direct result of working with our security consultants, Playtech and Casinomeister. It is a policy which we stand by as a responsible balance between security matters and ensuring that winners are paid Progressive Jackpots in full in a sensible time frame.

Opinions as to what is "responsible," "fair" or "sensible" time frame is wholly subject to the account holder. Only he or she can make that self-determination and we of course absolutely respect opinions. Within this thread there are opinions. Some accepting, some not. While opinions will differ, there is one thing that is not subject to interpretation. If you win a jackpot at Fly Casino or Omni Casino, you will be paid the entire amount according to our terms. Any speculation that our casinos could effectively take off with winnings (via various forms) is not possible here at Peak Interactive. Without detailing our structures in a public form, we have a legal structure and agreements with Playtech to which the entire player balances are held in full at all times and such balances are protected through several layers of legal checks and balances making such concepts/concerns impossible.

Warm Regards,

OC Elliott

 

[xxshepxx]

I expect the owner of the casino went online and ordered some trousers with extra large pockets...

KK

Thats what I thought.

Could of at least said thank you though