1. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
  2. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. You can find out more by following.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Problems with Vegas Red - 1700 confiscated

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by thelawnet, Jan 15, 2006.

    Jan 15, 2006
  1. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    I am hopeful that the casino will resolve this, but as the amounts involved are large, I am posting here to confirm what has happened....

    I have played at this group's casinos for quite a while - my first ever online casino purchase was at Casino Tropez, and I have made several deposits at Casino Del Rio. I always felt they had treated me pretty well, especially at the Del Rio VIP club.

    Exactly one week ago I signed up at Vegas Red, and got their signup bonus. I had to play some thousands in wagering. I played video poker and then played out the entire wagering requirement on pontoon, eventually withdrawing £1800 after removal of their sticky bonus.

    The bonus I got is described here

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Because I have seen casinos change their terms after the fact I am posting them here for posterity.

    Today I received the following email:

    I replied to them, saying the following:

    The terms are crystal clear: 'the play is not counted towards wagering requirements.' That is a very long distance from 'you are not allowed to play these games, and we will confiscate your winnings if you do'.

    I am hopeful they will respond positively to my email.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2006
  2. Jan 15, 2006
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Don't hold your breath!

    This lot have form, and it is not good. They actually are allowed to advertise in the UK as outfits like 888 are. The UK run portal themutual.net are actively promoting this casino. If they are in breach of terms AS ADVERTISED, not as interpreted by the casino, they have no grounds for confiscation. It is not even as though the bonus is withdrawable!!!
    If any of their ads are on UK servers you have them by the short & curlies!
    Check their terms for their nominated juristiction for dispute resolution, and whether they have a point of appeal. If they will not budge it's the small claims court for this (get all the evidence you can before they can change the terms retrospetively on the links). Send them this evidence outlining why you believe a case in the small claims court will be ruled in your favour.
    More than likely, they will pay up and ban you for life, you will at least get this rather large amount of money.
     
  4. Jan 15, 2006
  5. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    Playtech casinos really do have trouble interpreting their own terms! The problem surely comes when they all just cut and paste from each other and then pretend that the terms say what they actually wanted them to say.

    This should be a no brainer and with persistence there's no reason you won't get paid. That is unless their affiliate manager comes on and starts accusing you of fraud (see Giant Vegas thread which refers to a similar issue)

    You may be able to use your VIP status at del rio as leverage but i doubt it. They'll probably just see this as another excuse not to pay you

    Good luck!
     
  6. Jan 15, 2006
  7. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Yes, exactly the same as Giant Vegas. However, I don't think for a minute this is "bad interpretation" on the part of the casino - you can be sure they word their terms exactly as they want, using this apparent grey area as a win-confiscation ruse:

    I'll take your word for it, but I can't imagine why the fact of an advertising portal on UK servers would be enough clout to make another stiff Playtech pay up. Affiliates are just affiliates at the end of the day.

    I will not touch Playtech casinos, and I like a bonus as much as the next player. There is much too much risk for my own taste. I don't care if it's a £1000 bonus, I can't be doing with the prospect of getting into a six-month blood bath and probably still ending up unpaid, as in African Palace, Indio, Giant Vegas, Vegas Red, Grand Banks, Golden Palace etc etc.
     
  8. Jan 15, 2006
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It might not make them pay up, but I don't think their best interests lie in being blacklisted by UK watchdog and licensing authorities as this will not only affect them here, but throughout the EEC. They will only be left with US players to shaft!
    More likely, they will pay up eventually, doing the utmost minimum necessary to prevent adverse publicity in the general public domain (as opposed to the forums).
     
  10. Jan 16, 2006
  11. oblomov

    oblomov Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    London
    vegas red t & c's

    From the Vegas Red Terms of Use,Section 9. Reservation of Rights:

    "We reserve the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the play bonus is wagered in any versions of Baccarat, Craps, all versions of Roulette, all versions of Sic Bo, all Video Poker games, Blackjack Switch and Blackjack Surrender. We reserve the right to refuse or rescind the play bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, We reserve the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Online Casino in the future."
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    So its our old friend "we may not honour winnings,but we will never refund losses".

    A simple scam,easily fallen for because the relevant clause is hidden in a separate section to the bonus terms.

    It would be interesting to know if these t&c's are conceived by Playtech,seeing as so many of their licencees have similar or identical ones.
     
  12. Jan 16, 2006
  13. vedat

    vedat Dormant account

    Location:
    TURKEY
    you have to ask them first

    in inetbet also when you get bonus you cant play excluded games in some casinos also specially playtect and rtg i always ask casinos first before playing excluded games if they will confisgate my winnings if i played an excluded game its really very sad that for people who dont know about this becouse people usually dont read terms and they deposit and start playing and they play games they want so casinos who uses this tactic so if a guy wins alot with bonus they can forfeit the wins .its reall very tricky i wonder no good casinos use that
     
  14. Jan 16, 2006
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Crafty,

    So they add:-

    So players don't think to look around for other terms to indicate general game exclusions.
    Naturally, if you DO ask, they will form the view that you intend to beat the bonus and will deny payment anyway!
    The other trick is to E-mail you the link to the terms as if that answered the question, but forget to tell you about the other set!

    So, genuine players who use the bonus as the idea was originally intended, to try ALL the games on offer with an enhanced bankroll, will be stuffed. Wise bonus hunters will know all the tricks of the trade, will go over the terms in detail. Will not do anything that might allow the casino to wriggle out of it's obligations, and will play as if they don't have a clue what they are doing. (As in not meet WR and withdraw in one go and move to the next venue in the group - they will bide their time!)
     
  16. Jan 16, 2006
  17. Rocky

    Rocky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    na
    Location:
    CA
    This same thing happened to me at Del Rio. In my case I was a customer at Europa, and they sent me an email inviting me to try Del Rio. I had played video poker many times at Europa and it was never a problem, it just did not count toward the wagering. The terms at Del Rio say that video poker does not count toward wagering, not that you can not play at all.

    They have taken $3000 from me. I have pitched a bitch and emailed the Playtech complaint department.
     
  18. Jan 16, 2006
  19. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    My sentiments exactly!! Up until about a year and a half ago, I spent just as much at Playtech as I did at MG. Until I realized what a pain in the ass it is to cashout. Even when you do get paid, you're lucky if you get it in a week or two. No excuse for waiting that long, not when other softwares and other casinos can do instantaneous payments, and payments within 24 hours on a regular basis. No way am I waiting weeks to get paid on a legitimate win. And all of these recent complaints just reaffirm that I made the right decision.
     
  20. Jan 17, 2006
  21. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    This was a hidden term many (3+) years ago at these casinos (Swiss and Tropez groups). They are still misleading players in this way by stating two seemingly contradicting terms. This is the exact same problem here: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Not too long ago (2 years) they were also trying to remove winnings and bonuses for no reason at all. You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  22. Jan 20, 2006
  23. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Exactly the same issue, same group - larger amounts, about $12,000.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  24. Jan 20, 2006
  25. nublet

    nublet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manufacturing
    Location:
    WI
    So Brian has no leverage here or whats the deal?......is everyone just supposed to settle at this? This is a totally typical case and I'm interested in where it goes from here.
     
  26. Jan 20, 2006
  27. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Who are you referring to, me? It's BrYan - when you say Brian I tend to ignore this since that's not my name.

    Anyway, I've been reeeaallly busy the past few weeks, and PABs have been dealt with sporadically.

    Anyone with a problem concerning Playtech casinos needs to contact them via their disputes section. Unless of course it's a Playtech casino that is listed here. There are nine of them I think.
     
  28. Jan 20, 2006
  29. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    From the point of strict letter-of-the-law the casino has its ass covered, because the "exclusion" clause is listed. Obviously, the whole thing is specifically engineered to hoodwink even a sharp player into missing it, by listing apparently clear terms on the bonus page, and burying the vital exclusion clause deep in a practically unreadable and seemingly irrelevant "user end agreement". These are shabby, underhand tactics, obviously designed to ensure that anyone taking a bonus at the Tropez group will be unable to cash out a win, otherwise they would simply list the exclusions on the bonus page.

    Playtech is basically taking the piss. They know they can do this with impunity because of the weight of affiliates listing all these clip-joints. "Casino Cautions" and Infopowa bulletins can be released, but these are nothing against the weight of the money-hungry, moral-empty affiliates. If you can hook up with casino that's found a neat way to void all winnings on a technicallity, as the Tropez group have, you're going to make a lot of easy cash.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Jan 20, 2006
  31. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Excellent point Caruso, and unfortunately very true.
     
  32. Jan 20, 2006
  33. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    They appear to have added it now, at least on Vegas Red. You must register/login in order to see the link.

    This seems to be an admission that it wasn't fair to confiscate money under the old terms, otherwise they wouldn't have added it.
     
  34. Jan 20, 2006
  35. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Yes it would. I hope you still have your screen copy of the old version - you can make a strong case for payment.
     
  36. Mar 6, 2006
  37. rj314

    rj314 Webmaster

    I had a conversation with a rep from Casino Partners today, and he said there was no way this was possible. He couldn't find this thread that I pointed him to, so I told him I would bump it.
     
  38. Mar 6, 2006
  39. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Just FWIW, I have now been paid. I was contacted by a guy named Elad (no last name given) by telephone, whose email is This email is not visible to you.

    He said he and investigated and agreed with me completely. This was following a complain to Playtech disputes. I had complained before to Playtech about Grand Banks, and also about some silliness by Monaco Gold, and I have found the service in each case to result in full payment of the monies I have been owed. I have never used any other software provider's dispute resolution service, but from my own experience gentle polite (never abuse the casino when they owe you money!) persistence and clear elucidation of why you are right goes a long way in getting a result.

    That said in this case I found out after the fact that the particular 'hidden term', which they have now publicised up front in a satisfactory manner was biting people for a long time, two years or more, before they corrected it.

    See e.g., http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casino-poker-complaints/3620-vegas-red.html

    It's really difficult to tell what the true face of an organisation is when you cannot get resolution from low-level employees who are often unbending, whether by corporate policy from above or by jobsworth syndrome, as compared to the smoother types like the Elad I spoke to. However, whether they were not enforcing the term for the two years and there was no problem, it does seem like a long time for hiding away 'we can confiscate your money' clauses where the player would not expect to find them.
     

Share This Page