Problems At Winward

ChrisV

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Location
Adelaide
Hi folks,

A week or two ago I read about a 100% $1,000 max bonus being offered on Winward Casino. That sounded pretty good, and a site I read indicated that while people sometimes experienced delayed cashouts, everyone eventually got paid. They seemed to be a pretty established casino. A quick check of Casinomeister's lists of dodgy casinos revealed nothing. I should probably have scoped the forums first as there are a few previous threads about problems with Winward, but anyway...

I duly bought in for my $1,000, but when I logged into my account, I had only been given a $250 bonus. I emailed support and also one other address which I found on the website as being associated with bonuses. There was dead silence. I decided this was not a site I wanted to play at, and checked the
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to see whether I could withdraw. I read this:

Players must wager at least 12 times the amount of their deposit in order to cash out any winnings. Also the bonus money must be wagered the same amount of times as the deposit in order to be able to cash out. The bonus will also kick in once you spend 95% of your deposit. Players who attempt to cash out any winnings prior to having met the wagering requirements will have the bonus canceled and the withdrawal request declined, this process cannot be undone.

This sounded fine, since I didn't have any "winnings", having not played a single game of anything at the site. I duly submitted a withdrawal request for the amount of my original deposit. When the withdrawal was processed I received this:

Dear Chris,

Please note that your withdrawal request has been declined due to the fact that as per our rules on the website, before we process a withdrawal request customers must meet wagering criteria, for more information on this topic please visit this link:

Bonus Rules

Your withdrawal request has been sent back to your Winward Casino account and will be processed the following Monday if meet this criteria.

Thank you,

Winward Casino
Accounting Department

I replied with:

Hi,

First of all, at the point I bought in, your site was advertising a 100% match bonus to $1,000. I notice that has now changed to $500. But in any case, I didn't receive either a $1,000 or $500 bonus. I got a $250 bonus. I emailed support and a couple of other people about this and all my emails were ignored. Given this misrepresentation, I decided I did not want to play at Winward and therefore cashed out my deposit without placing any bets. I did not attempt to cash out the bonus money.

Your bonus terms and conditions does not say that I am required to complete the wagering requirements before requesting a withdrawal of my original deposit. From the terms:

" Players must wager at least 12 times the amount of their deposit in order to cash out any winnings.... Players who attempt to cash out any winnings prior to having met the wagering requirements will have the bonus canceled and the withdrawal request declined..."

I'm not attempting to cash out winnings. How could I have winnings, given I haven't played any games? I'm just cashing out my initial deposit. I don't want any bonus and I don't want to play at Winward. I would simply like my money refunded.

Please respond with an assurance that I will be able to cash out my original deposit this coming Monday.

Thanks
Chris Vinall

This has been met with 48 hours of silence.

The bonus has now been removed from my account and I unfortunately have no proof that I was originally given only a $250 bonus. If you hit the terms and conditions link above, you'll note that even though the ad on the left says $500 max deposit now, the terms and conditions still indicate a $1,000 maximum, which is proof that they are changing their story from day to day.

What's my play here? I can simply play out the wagering requirements, but it's pretty annoying given there's no guarantee they will cash me out even then. Or, I can dig my heels in and insist that they cash out my deposit. Is this a severe enough problem to pitch a bitch? Advice of experienced casino-handlers appreciated.

Cheers
Chris
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Winward

Winward have had many problems, and one is the ignoring of player E-mails. In this case they have falsely allowed a $1000 bonus offer to be advertised, and then replaced it with the $500 offer, which is the usual one here. However, they reneged even on that deal, and awarded only $250. They seem to have READ your E-mails though, as they have removed the bonus as per your request. In theory, there should be no barrier to your cashing in, as with no bonus, and you having never played, there should be no WR to worry about.
If you do nothing, they will lock the account after 30 days of inactivity, and probably ask you to E-mail support to get it unlocked, and they will probably ignore this E-mail as well.
I once played there, and actually ended up ahead, but they suddenly started ignoring E-mails and upgraded the software so it didn't work on my PC. I decided to withdraw the remaining cashable funds, and uninstall the software. It took over a year, and several ignored E-mails for them to finally pay the funds, and only because "Jetset" has a contact there who got things moving again.
While not rogued here, they are either rogued, or on probation, on other forums. They should at least be "not recommended" here due to these ongoing communication difficulties, and willingness to renege on advertised offers without explanation.
If they had at least explained why you only got $250, and perhaps found it to be a mistake, they may still have a customer, and not a thread get again at the top of the complaints section.
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
Winward tells me that after you deposit $1000, you will be initially given a $250 bonus. Then you should receive an email from Winward with a link to credit the remaining $750 bonus. Note that this email may get caught in bulk/junk folders. The $500 limit applies to certain countries that they claim have a higher rate of bonus abuse -- Germany, Denmark, Israel, Great Britain and Finland. These countries also have a different wagering requirement.

Having said that Winward has a history of rule changes, delayed cashouts, and general problems. I was told that management recently changed and such problems would be improved, but that seems to not be the case.

My personal experience with Winward is mixed. I've done quite well there. It is one of the 5 casinos where I have had the largest overall gain. My cashouts went smoothly (aside from the only processed on Monday rule). My one problem was with a special bonus offered by email. Winward said the only guy who could credit the bonus was the promotions manager who sent the email. It was a real hassle communicating with him, especially since he was offline for a week while doing something in Australia. They also changed the allowed games list midway through the wagering, which caused more hassle.

If you do nothing, they will lock the account after 30 days of inactivity, and probably ask you to E-mail support to get it unlocked, and they will probably ignore this E-mail as well.
My account has been inactive for quite a bit longer than 30 days, and it has not been locked.
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Spam, Junk, Bulls***

Winward tells me that after you deposit $1000, you will be initially given a $250 bonus. Then you should receive an email from Winward with a link to credit the remaining $750 bonus. Note that this email may get caught in bulk/junk folders. The $500 limit applies to certain countries that they claim have a higher rate of bonus abuse -- Germany, Denmark, Israel, Great Britain and Finland. These countries also have a different wagering requirement.

Having said that Winward has a history of rule changes, delayed cashouts, and general problems. I was told that management recently changed and such problems would be improved, but that seems to not be the case.

My personal experience with Winward is mixed. I've done quite well there. It is one of the 5 casinos where I have had the largest overall gain. My cashouts went smoothly (aside from the only processed on Monday rule). My one problem was with a special bonus offered by email. Winward said the only guy who could credit the bonus was the promotions manager who sent the email. It was a real hassle communicating with him, especially since he was offline for a week while doing something in Australia. They also changed the allowed games list midway through the wagering, which caused more hassle.


My account has been inactive for quite a bit longer than 30 days, and it has not been locked.

I hear the excuse from casinos that claim they reply to all E-mails, but that users must have lost them to their spam filters. Nice try, but when I had this particular issue with Winward my ISP just did not "do" spam filters, and I had nothing my end either. I also have casinos claim they didn't reply because they didn't receive the E-mail, however surely I would have got some kind of delivery error returned, even if after a few days. Given that casinos specify the E-mail addresses that should be used to communicate with them, as a business they should make certain that nothing their end could be interfering with inbound E-mails from their own customers.

Had Winward made more effort with this, this player could have been told how to get the outstanding $750 to make up what was advertised, and would probably then have been happy to play there.
When I joined, I found UK to not be on the list, so I E-mailed them to tell them I was not able to play, and that they really should not be promoting to the UK. They certainly replied to that no problem, telling me to pretend to be from another country, and they would manually correct this. They said they had banned the UK, but now wanted us back. I won over $500, and they did pay, even though only on Mondays. It all went wrong when they updated the software and offered me a birthday bonus. It was a real pain getting the offer credited due to unpublished conditions (I had to deposit to get me "free offer"). I then found my account locked due to 30 days inactivity, so they certainly DID do this, even if not any longer. On playing my bonus, the software just didn't work properly, even on the very lowest settings, 16 colours and 600x480 screen - I found this pitiful, and wanted nothing more to do with it and attempted to withdraw after releasing the bonus from WR - it took over a YEAR to get paid, as they locked the account while I waited through months of unanswered E-mails as to why I was still waiting. It was such a small sum that I just gave up in the end.
While they paid in the end, CS was abysmal, so was the software, and they can shove "Parlay" powered sites where the sun don't shine.
 

ChrisV

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Location
Adelaide
They seem to have READ your E-mails though, as they have removed the bonus as per your request.

No, I didn't request that. That happens automatically on a failed withdrawal as per the t&c.

aka23, given this kind of history I think you should toughen up your
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on Winward.

So my question remains... what do you guys think is my best option here? Am I going to get anywhere pitching a bitch?
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
aka23, given this kind of history I think you should toughen up your
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on Winward.
I'll add some of the issues mentioned in this thread to the warning later tonight.

So my question remains... what do you guys think is my best option here? Am I going to get anywhere pitching a bitch?
I'd recommend trying live support, where you will get a response. Phone support is also available, although you may have to pay charges depending on your country. Hopefully, after you explain the situation, they will approve the withdrawal. If not, then I'd recommend emailing management. Live support can give the email addresses. In some cases, general support needs management approval to override default rules.

Other options include:
--PMing me. I have an affiliate contact that may be helpful.

--PMing Jetset. VW indicated that he has been helpful with other Winward issues.

--Pitching a Bitch. Bryan likely also has a contact, as well as a good amount of influence. One player felt that a key reason for a rapid resolution to his dispute was mentioning "Casinomeister" in his email.
 

ChrisV

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Location
Adelaide
No response from live support. There's a shock. It's hard to get anything resolved when there's nobody home.

Onwards to Plan B, I guess.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I'm just catching up with the PABs that were submitted during my absence. Any updates here?
 

ChrisV

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Location
Adelaide
I communicated privately with aka23, and with the help of a contact he had at Winward I have been paid out today. Well, $961 of my $1000 deposit, anyway. Presumably the rest is the victim of the plunging US dollar, which is weird given that my Winward account currency was USD... but hey, typical...

This is resolved, but my personal recommendation is still to stay well clear of Winward.
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and you'll see this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened. Dealing with support was a nightmare.
 

GI Joe

Webmeister
webmeister
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Location
LA
You are not the only one having problems with them.

I have a deal with Pearlgaming and they have removed all deals made with RevenueGiants - because of problems with no payments.
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
READ POSTS RE: SLOT VILLAGE

I believe this entire group of casinos uses unethical practices and I suggest everyone stay away from this group. They don't deserve our business!
 

Zoozie

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Location
Denmark
I have not played there in over 1 year. Then one month ago I got a mail that my account has been credited with a 10$ bonus. Nice. But then I try to log in but my account was closed. Probably due to inactivity. I then write a mail to CS but I have not gotten a reply yet. So I already uninstalled it. It is really a shame
they run Winward this way. It was some very unique software. I like the
diversity of casino software.

Zoozie
 

xengo

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Location
netherlands
I also had my first withdrawal declined because they needed more neteller info. Strange but I did send it in. Now I'm reading stuff about them needing ID as well. Will send that in as well before sunday so they should have no reason to decline my winnings anymore. Will keep you guys posted after this sunday.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I have not played there in over 1 year. Then one month ago I got a mail that my account has been credited with a 10$ bonus. Nice. But then I try to log in but my account was closed. Probably due to inactivity. I then write a mail to CS but I have not gotten a reply yet. So I already uninstalled it. It is really a shame
they run Winward this way. It was some very unique software. I like the
diversity of casino software.

Zoozie

That will be the birthday bonus. The exact same happened to me. E-mail said I had a credit, found account locked so had to contact support, support ignore that, and follow up E-mail.
It is Parlay software, when they upgraded it, it stopped working on my PC. I have not tried it on the new one as there is no point. The account will be locked, and there is no effective communication with support.
I would have better luck getting my Lucky Chance account reactivated:D
 

Hihohiho0

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Location
central time
Winward

Hi guys: same thing here for Winward. The wouldn't give me the birthday bonus (December) because I hadn't deposited within the 2 week period before my birthday- or so I was told. They also told me they credited a "mystery bonus" in my account - :confused: never showed! Overall, I deposited about $300 over 3-4 month period. The only thing I contacted them about was the birthday bonus - got a "snippy reply" and decided I would never go back. I just checked my account and it has been locked as well. I've recieved a couple of e-mails stating they have a new management team and to contact them with any concerns. I send an email stating the incident with the mystery bonus and the birthday decline - about a month ago - they never responded. Good advice - stay away.
 

xengo

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Location
netherlands
Finally some good news about winward. Yesterday they transferred my winnings to neteller. Even without further hassles :notworthy
Despite all the problems before I'm glad I finally got my winnings.
 

JasonXorg

Dormant account
Joined
May 8, 2007
Location
Leiden, The Netherlands
Well, here is my story on Winward :mad:

On Saturday the 5th of May, I signed up for the $500 bonus they promote. When I tried to log in for the first time, my account was disabled. Figuring some security, I contacted Live Support. They apologized for the trouble, enabled my account and gave me $10.
I deposited $500 and went to check if the bonus was added. It said that I had an "unqualified bonus" of $ 500 :confused:
I contacted Live Support again, and the problem was fixed via e-mail. Time to start playing...

I played BJ and kept track of my wagers. At the right time, the bonus was added to my available funds, so I could up the ante a bit. After playing enough during 2 days, I was up $500, for a total available fund of $1500 (of which $500 was sticky).
Just to make sure, I contacted Live Support, and asked if I had met the WR just in case I wanted to cash out a bit. She told me "I'd better contact the accounting department on that". Because of the time difference, I couldn't at the moment and left it to that.

On Tuesday the 8th, I tried to log in for some more BJ-action, only to find my account was disabled. Stunned, I contacted Live Support. All she could tell my that my account was closed by Management Decision and my initial deposit would be refunded :eek2:
So apparently they don't like winners and just take away any profits like that??
I had to send an e-mail to 'johan@winwardcasino.com' for further explanation. Of course, I did immediately.

Although they advertise with a "24hr response time", I did not receive any word. So I contacted Fred from Live Support (transcript below). Basically, he tells me it's no use in trying to contact them because the decision was final.

This means they lure you in with juicy bonusses, but when you win and have the nerve to merely inform about a withdrawal, they'll void your winnings, close your account, ignore you. For now, I can only hope to get my deposit back but I won't know untill next monday/payday.
If I get any answer to why, I'll report back. I'll also send this to aka23 and others for their consideration.

They will probably label me as a bonus abuser (even tho I haven't cashed out a single dime). Great way to treat customers.

My opinion: ROGUE and avoid.

Fred: Hello, this is Fred. How can I help you?
you: Hi Fred, I would like to talk to someone of the management of Winward
you: I sent an e-mail yesterday but it's 23 hours later and no reply
Fred: what is the email about?
Fred: Can I have your User ID please ?
you: *********
you: my account has been disabled by management decision, but they told me they refunded my deposit. I don't know why my winnings are voided
you: I have only been playing for a couple of days :-/
Fred: Please hold on for a moment while I check in your records...
Fred: your account will be refunded as soon as possible
Fred: check your inbox
Fred: this is the message from management
you: I didn't receive anything yet
you: but will my account be re-enabled or my deposit refunded?
Fred: deposit
you: But I want to know WHY my winnings are taken away and my account closed
Fred: there is all there is to it
you: I didn't do anything wrong, but playing for 2 days :S
Fred: management call
Fred: sorry
you: Give me someone from the management
Fred: not available
you: when will one be available?
Fred: management has made a decision on this account
Fred: there is no point on contacting them
Fred: nor will it be
Fred: just check your inbox
you: This is great for their reputation then. When will my money be back?
Fred: keep checking your balance and inbox
you: Well, still nothing in my inbox
you: don't receive any mail
Fred: ok, later then
you: I expect my money back VERY soon, cause it's mine, Winward has stolen enough already now
Fred: ok
you: Have a great day Fred, I know it's not your fault
Fred: keep checking both things
Fred: yes i know
you: I will
 

NextToYou

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Location
Europe
They try to do this for everyone. If you win, they lock your account without sending any info and give your deposit back. The when you try to contact "management" they answer with some reason which is not valid. A long time ago when I did their sign-up there was some woman whos e-mail I got after several live chat sessions - I emailed her and said that my case will go to casinomeister and all over the internet if they dont pay me my winnings. After that I was paid.

I dont understand affiliates who promote them. Completely rogue behaviour.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
They try to do this for everyone. If you win, they lock your account without sending any info and give your deposit back. The when you try to contact "management" they answer with some reason which is not valid. A long time ago when I did their sign-up there was some woman whos e-mail I got after several live chat sessions - I emailed her and said that my case will go to casinomeister and all over the internet if they dont pay me my winnings. After that I was paid.

I dont understand affiliates who promote them. Completely rogue behaviour.

I had a lucky escape, I "did" their $500 SUB a while back, and got paid out over $1000. I even found a loophole, and they still paid!

The loophole was simple, the bonus remains in the account for further play, so as soon as you get a few wins under your belt, withdraw, but wait for payment before doing the same the following week. Making a number of small withdrawals I thought would be too obvious to them and I would get banned & locked. I only had problems with a remaining $20 or so, which I let them sit on for over a year. I only got paid when I mentioned the experience and Jetset was able to open communications with them - they were only to pleased to pay it and get my account "off the books". (I think that means they didn't want me back, but would only call it a ban if I tried.)
The initial problem was they ignored ALL attempts to communicate with them until I just gave up since it was only $20, and I was already up $500.
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
winward and slotsvillage same group

I posted the following under Slots village unethical practices.
I am mentioning it here because if they did this because of "bonus abuse" while not allowing "unbonusable accounts". They are truly unethical and should be ROUGED by all.

I missing something here? Have any of you ever ran across a casino that REQUIRES YOU TO ACCEPT DEPOSIT BONUSES OR ANY BONUS FOR THAT MATTER?

The most imAm portant reason I posted my chat with slotvillage support was due to the supervisors claim that they DO NOT ALLOW UNBONUSABLE ACCOUNTS.

In other words if I want to deposit and play there I HAVE TO ACCEPT THEIR BONUSES!

Obviously this immediately reduces my odds of winning as I have playthrough on my deposits and because of the way the have made a big deal of BONUS ABUSERS and due to their T&C I do not want the bonuses.

It is highly unethical to force bonuses on players in my opinion.

If you have played there would you please post your experience of bonuses being added to your account including whether you wanted the bonuses.

Most casinos will allow you to have the bonus removed prior to playing your deposit or the bonus. NOT THEM

THEY SHOULD BE CALLED ON THIS BY CASINOMEISTER TO CHANGE THEIR TERMS OR BE ROUGED
 

JasonXorg

Dormant account
Joined
May 8, 2007
Location
Leiden, The Netherlands
Well, I have sent Johan the following mail, just to see how player-friendly they are.

Dear Johan,

Allow me to have another go at making my case. I ask you to read this and reconsider the managements decision.

As stated on your site, an online casino offers bonusses as an incentive for players to sign up and play at the casino. In order to protect themselves from abuse, casinos back these offers with Terms and Conditions, stating clear rules for the bonus. By signing up, the player agrees to play according to these rules. If a player does not abide these, the casino has the right to refuse the player.

If a player visits a casino, there is a chance of losing money and a slighty smaller chance of winning some money. Thats the whole idea behind gambling.


When I signed up, I read your T&C carefully. Basically it stated that to be entitled for the bonus, one had to wager his deposit 12 times. After that, the bonus would be added and had to be played another 12 times. This is a reasonable way to protect the bonus. The wagers could take place on a large range of games. Further, it makes rules for early withdrawal.


All seemed fair to me, so I signed up, made my deposit and started playing my absolute favorite game of Blackjack (one of the allowed games). After wagering enough, the bonus was added to my bankroll, allowing me to wager a bit more each hand. Luck was on my side because I managed to win a nice amount.
Before I would do anything stupid, I wanted to check if I met my wagering requirements, just in case I wanted to either cash out, play a dis-allowed game or anything like that. So I contacted Live Support for that information. After that I played some more and called it a night.


The rest is known history.


But I feel that the logic Winward Casino follows, is not correct. First of all, you made me an offer through the bonus. That offer was backed by your rules. I had the choice to accept or decline. I accepted the rules as stated. Then Winward accepted my bets which I could either win or lose. In this case I happened to win, on a game that was allowed. Nowhere was mentioned that playing a single favorite game might be flagged as suspicious. I finished the wagering requirement, having made enough bets to prove Im serious. Please note that I made bets from $10 - $25 each, depending on my bankroll. These bets are pretty much for a bankroll my size. So this indicates that I was not using a certain betting pattern to create, and I quote, to try and manipulate an un-fair advantage. The odds were the same each and every bet, I did not have a unfair advantage by cheating or fraudulent behaviour. Besides, the T&C mentions nothing on what one can bet or not.

All in all, I played by your rules, nothing more, nothing less. After that, I didnt even initiate cashout of any sorts. And still your casino felt the need to label me as a bonus abuser.


In your effort to catch abusers, you are making the mistake to prey on innocent players that really have the intention on staying, like myself. I feel you could have waited to see if I would cash out, and what amount that would be. At that point, you could have decided if I were in it to exploit the bonus.

I can honostly say that I would have played a lot more on Winward, simply because I like the software, the graphics and my results so far.


Now I want you to know, I have posted my treatment on Casinomeister.com. I strongly believe that this kind of customer service is not appreciated by the online gambling community and I feel other players have to be warned. As you can understand, this could mean that players are going to avoid your casino, costing you business.


To summarize: I did NOT break any of your rules, on which games are allowed and how much I had to wager. You accepted my bets, risking losing, but expected winning as a casino. You still deemed it necessary to label me, before I even cashed out a single dime, a bonus abuser. You took away my winnings and refunded my deposit (still waiting for that btw).


Now at least it would be fair to grant me my winnings, those were made fair and square. If I would have lost money, I am sure you wouldnt have refunded that. This would mean that Winward blocks you when you win, but probably keeps you around when you lose. Thats running a casino brilliantly riskfree. This will not pass the scrutiny of the gambling community, thats for sure.


There is a solution to all this. And the best thing about it: its a win win solution!

All I am asking, is for Winward to reopen my account and give me my bankroll back. This gives me the chance to prove I am a returning customer. You can ask other casinos like Intercasino, BetFred, Playboy Gaming, 32Red and so on that I do actually play without bonusses and that my game of choice is BJ. I could even make promises like: Ill play a lot for at least a month, outside the bonus, wagering a lot more, just to show I am a respectable player.

Being able to play again with that bankroll, would be the win for me.


The win for Winward:

You gain a player, who is serious. But I think its more important that you show goodwill to players, that you are willing to listen to your customers. Perhaps even your judgement can be wrong sometimes, as long as you show the willingness to correct errors, players will respect your business. Of course, if you are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt, I will communicate this the same way as I have the previous situation. Again, it would show potential customers that you are not a casino simply out on the hunt for abusers or taking money, but that you are serious about your business and customers.


I truly hope you want to reconsider my situation based on my arguments. Please let me know your decision. The sooner this is resolved, the better.


Regards
 
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