Pricewaterhouse to pay$50million settlement (can we say fraud)

[bethug]

This is why u cant not trust any accounting firm , that getting paid buy a casino to tell you the games or the payout is fair.

PricewaterhouseCoopers, the biggest U.S. accounting firm, will pay $50 million to settle a lawsuit filed by Raytheon Co. investors claiming that the auditor approved misleading Raytheon financial statements.

Raytheon this month agreed to pay $410 million to settle the shareholders' lawsuit against the company. Pricewaterhouse said it didn't admit liability in resolving the case.

Shareholders began filing lawsuits against Raytheon after the company said Oct. 12, 1999, that it would take pretax charges of $638 million, sending its shares down 44% that day.

The shares rose 35 cents to $32.94 on the New York Stock Exchange before news of the settlement was released.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

The PWC seal of approval is worthless. Software firms could easily cook the data that PWC receives. And how hard would it be to bribe PWC? Corporate corruption is rampant in South Africa. Both Microgaming and the PWC firm that verifies Microgamings fairness are located in South Africa.

I trust Microgaming and PWC about as much as I would trust a pedophile to baby-sit my children.

Until these fly-by-night online casinos are regulated by a first world government agency, you must assume youre being cheated.

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[cipher]

The PWC seal of approval is worthless. Software firms could easily cook the data that PWC receives. And how hard would it be to bribe PWC? Corporate corruption is rampant in South Africa. Both Microgaming and the PWC firm that verifies Microgamings fairness are located in South Africa.

I trust Microgaming and PWC about as much as I would trust a pedophile to baby-sit my children.

Until these fly-by-night online casinos are regulated by a first world government agency, you must assume youre being cheated.

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We've been looking forward with great anticipation to the release of this news for quite some time now and are currently exploring avenues against MG casinos as well as PriceWaterhouse Coopers.

 

[caruso]

Those ridiculous "payment reports" were an obvious put-on job from the word go - I never paid them no never mind, even in my earliest, most gullibile forrays into the casino game, and I can't believe anyone else ever took them for anything other than the con they are.

PWC clearly rubber stamp anything for a buck. What ridiculous, rampant corruption this business is founded on.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

What ridiculous, rampant corruption this business is founded on.

Amen brother!

I can't figure out why "recreational gamblers" would play at online casinos. There are far too many hassles, even if the casino is fair.

I can only assume that there is no such thing as a "recreational gambler"--there are only gambling addicts. And gambling addicts don't care where they play, how much the lose or whether the games are fair or not. They just need to beat themselves up emotionally and psychologically by losing money. Its sad really.

 

[jyde]

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Denmark is ranked 3rd after Finland and Iceland South Africa is is ranked 48 (just before Costa Rica). In all fairness it should be mentioned that South Africa scores better than a couple of EU-members like Greece and Poland

 

[eek]

I was an auditor for about 5 years, working with onshore and offshore stuff.

I would never really rely on an audit report, and I would never use it as a basis for somewhere to put my cash, whether its an online casino or an investment fund.

The audit contract that the client signs with an audit firm, reads like a huge disclaimer of responsibility for the accounting firm.
The main reason is that experienced and determined senior management can circumvent an auditor without too much difficulty.

 

[Sodax77]

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Denmark is ranked 3rd after Finland and Iceland South Africa is is ranked 48 (just before Costa Rica). In all fairness it should be mentioned that South Africa scores better than a couple of EU-members like Greece and Poland

I heard about that list in news, last year. Interesting that all Scandinavian countries are ranked in top 8 (Finland, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway). I like that number one

(You can send me money, directly to my neteller account, so i can update that page... , [Your Counry rank # x $100])

(Or i can create own page )

 

[jetset]

An interesting find on what appears to be a "first world nation" issue, Bethug.

Nevertheless, because this is obviously being used by the usual suspects as a stick with which to beat eCOGRA I have asked Price Waterhouse Coopers to comment. This entity is a multi national group with some 160 000 employees based around the world. Hardly a small "developing nation" company.

Cipher, when you say "we" to whom are you referring in this putative action?

 

[dirk_dangerous]

Jetset, you have to look at this from the players POV. I dont see how anyone can expect the players to trust a casino watchdog organization thats been set up by the largest casino SW provider on the internet.

Yes its good PR, and maybe Ecogra is doing exactly what they say they do, but the Microgaming connection is certainly more than enough reason for reasonable people to be skeptical.

Frankly, I think that you, Bryan and Spear are too close to Microgaming to see the player concerns. I dont mean that in a negative way, but each of you, for your own reasons, trusts Microgaming and that trust biases your opinion.

Many players do not have the same trust.

I'll say once again, my distrust of Microgaming has come from my playing results with their software. IMO, Microgaming has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[bethug]

Excellent post, Dirk. A few webmasters get gifts and perks from some of this casinos.(they become loyal and blind) I am a player and I am for the player. A few casinos try to get sway me there way. But you cant be me unless it over 3 million

 

[eek]

Three million?

I'll turn to the dark side for two million.(negotiable to 500k)

 

[dirk_dangerous]

Excellent post, Dirk. A few webmasters get gifts and perks from some of this casinos.(they become loyal and blind) I am a player and I am for the player. A few casinos try to get sway me there way. But you cant be me unless it over 3 million

Just to clarify, I dont want anyone to think Im implying that Bryan, Jet and Spear have been bribed by any SW provider. I dont believe that. I do believe that each of these men is as honest and objective as a webmaster/industry person can be in this putrid industry.

However, my point is that each of them has developed a close relationship with Microgaming, and that close relationship is part of their basis for trusting Microgaming.

Players have no such relationship with Microgaming and have not developed that same trust. In fact, the opposite has occurred--many players have a deep distrust of Microgaming and that distrust is based on their results at Microgaming casinos.

And I would also bet low 5 figures that the three of these men put together have put in less action at Microgaming casinos than I or many other individuals have. They simply do not understand the players perspective when it comes to opinions on SW fairness.

 

[bethug]

I believe all three of them has done a great Job in helping people, it just when a webmaster that get perks from micro casinos, tell you it not fixed or cough up your results that bother me. Also i dont think non of them plays black jack everyday like my self and others.

I have said this in the pass.
micro got rich off of rigged games, now they can afford to go straight, from all the money they taken.

rtg casinos start off thinking they can give the same bonus and failed, why there games not rigged.

let me say this all the above is the way i think.

 

[spearmaster]

Frankly, I think that you, Bryan and Spear are too close to Microgaming to see the player concerns.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. I continue to give Microgaming a lot of stick when I think something is wrong, but most of this is done behind the scenes as public discussion is not justified.

And I would also bet low 5 figures that the three of these men put together have put in less action at Microgaming casinos than I or many other individuals have. They simply do not understand the players perspective when it comes to opinions on SW fairness.

Can't speak for the other two here but putting in less action at Microgaming casinos has no bearing upon understanding SW fairness. If you put in 100 mil of action and I put in 99 mil, does that mean I don't understand the player's perspective?

I think you underestimate all three of us. Especially disappointing for me because I consider my knowledge of players and their thoughts second to none.

Regarding perks - first of all, there haven't been any perks for two years as far as I am concerned. Secondly, the "perk" you are talking about was never, has never been seen to be anything but a desire for Jackpot Madness to give some of us access to the first Internet millionaire, for which I was indeed grateful.

That does not allow our glasses to be colored (well, at least not mine - and I got new progressive lenses yesterday). Trust me - every software manufacturer has faults - every company has faults. And I shall continue to call it like I see it as I have done since day one - the mere fact that some of you cannot respect this is enough to make one wanna go crazy sometimes.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi all,

Like what Spear said, I don't think a lot of you see what is going on behind the scenes. One thing, my closeness to Micro is no closer than RTG. The reason that it may appear that I am closer to Micro is that I don't endorse non-licensed casinos - RTG knows this and so do most of their operators - and thus there are no RTGs listed here.

As for perks? A complimentary Merecedes parked in my car port would be a perk - I drive a Ford. I don't consider being invited to a gathering that allows people to form a better working relationship and offer information as a "perk".

To imply that I am out of touch with the player is a bit off-kilter. In fact, I'm probably more in touch with players than anyone else except perhaps Spear. I spend most of my working hours answering emails, assisting players solving problems, catching up with industry news, and administrating this forum. How much more "in contact" can I be? Dirk and Bethug, answer me this: what do you do to "feel the pulse" of the player besides visiting some message boards?

And I would also bet low 5 figures that the three of these men put together have put in less action at Microgaming casinos than I or many other individuals have. They simply do not understand the players perspective when it comes to opinions on SW fairness.

That would be a bad bet for you I believe. I know Spear plays at most of the casinos listed at his site, and I play daily as well. Some of my more successful days have been reported here; http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4193
I have my bad days, but I don't talk them much And like I mentioned it before - I think BJ sucks and I don't play it.

I dont see how anyone can expect the players to trust a casino watchdog organization thats been set up by the largest casino SW provider on the internet.

eCOGRA is not a casino watchdog. I am - in fact probably the only one. If you would have read my last newsletter, you'd know where I stand on this. You won't find eCOGRA reporting on trademark violation issues, or alerting players on deceptive spam scams, or notifying players on software that REALLY cheats (read COA). This is what I do. eCOGRA has their place in the big picture; to offer player assurance by implementing and enforcing detailed criteria to their member casinos. No one else does this. What more do you want?

And what is there not to trust? If General Motors started up eCOGRA, most of the naysayers would be shouting "conspiracy! scam!" from the top of their soap boxes anyway. Most of these folks seem to be distrustful by nature.

 

[spearmaster]

In fact, I'm probably more in touch with players than anyone else except perhaps Spear.

If anything, it's the other way around - you are in touch with far more players than I am.

But I do have a very fine feel for the player's side of things because that is what I am, first and foremost - a player (or at least I used to be). I move about in industry circles both online and land-based and hear stories and cases of all shapes and sizes. I make it a point to go out of my way to visit land based casinos as well (case in point - the newly-open Las Vegas Sands in Macau, two days after it opened) to observe and watch players, layouts, types of games, etc.

If anything, Dirk, I would daresay that I am way more in touch with things than you are because I make it my job to do so.

 

[Sodax77]

It's hard to write my opinion, because i don't speak good english. But my point is that there are always big scandal like Parma, Enron, etc, and who protect their customers? In many cases, nobody...but lawyers. And i see PWC in totally different aspect. Quite fair. Maybe i'm wrong, or not, but that is only my opinion.

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And about online casino business, who protect if there is something unfair or fraud (casino vs customers)? Again, in many cases nobody. But i see one place, where i trust, where i see action, if there is something fraud or unfair about Casinos vs. their customers. And i think you know that place: Casinomeister
And best thing is, that you can open your mouth here, if you see unfair/fraud action about some Casino/group, even it is Casinomeisters reputable casino or not. Do i write this same post to Ecogra forum? But...
btw, where is their forum?

Thanks Casinomeister

 

[cipher]

An interesting find on what appears to be a "first world nation" issue, Bethug.

Nevertheless, because this is obviously being used by the usual suspects as a stick with which to beat eCOGRA I have asked Price Waterhouse Coopers to comment. This entity is a multi national group with some 160 000 employees based around the world. Hardly a small "developing nation" company.

Cipher, when you say "we" to whom are you referring in this putative action?

Hi Jet;

As you know Jet, I'm able to rely on some pretty substantial individuals and organizations with backgrounds in Law and Investigations. For the last couple of years "we" (those individuals, organizations and myself cumulatively) have endeavored to keep very close tabs on what "we" consider to be a MG/PWC charade.

I'd be very interested to hear any new comment that PRICE WATERHOUSE COOPERS might have to offer. Though I seriously doubt that it would be anything short of the same banter that has been offered by them in the past.

Good to hear from you Jet. Have a good one.

 

[Sodax77]

And if i continue. Of course i don't mean that Ecogra, etc don't solve anything. But here many things are public. And after all, even Casinos/groups like VPL, FL, etc, can't say, that it is Casinomeister, Bryan Bailey's (etc.) job to solve these problems (if something fraud/unfair action). And btw, same thing, if player cheat casino, or something like that (unfair action...). And i know, that many players appreciate when Bryan or someone solve these problems, but i think, some casinos, players, etc, don't care at all. Casinomeister is not some global-super-mega company, it is:
http://www.casinomeister.com/ueber.html



(sorry my "etc"'s, lol... when i don't know some word or can't translate, i use that. And sometimes this:

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