PrePaid ATm Scare Tactics

recruit

Dormant account
A few months ago, my darling teenage daughter and her friend had a rip-roaring good time with some of my casino accounts, to the tune of $6200 all together. And before you all say the obvious, no, I'm not some evil "Rhonda" clone - since she is a minor, I do understand that ultimately, this is my responsibility - or so I have been told. I plan to make good on everything she did.

Anyway, I have been making arrangements with the various vehicles she used to fund her little party (my credit card, Citadel, etc.) One of the accounts she used was my Prepaid ATM. I have been a customer there for quite awhile, as has my husband, and we've never had any problem with them. We've been playing online for years. I don't have any problem when losing a deposit to a casino, because that's just part of it, but THIS is killing me.

Today, in an attempt to work things out with Prepaid atm (my bank returned $1100 in charges she made) I was connected to a "John Keeler" who was in the "Fraud Investigations" dept. I read the earlier posts about John Grey's antics and this guy must be his evil twin....the very first words out of his mouth were," Has the sherrif's office contacted you yet?" He went on to say that this was a "Grand larceny felony" in the state of Nevada and that if I "did not pay the full amount today via MoneyGram, that I would be picked up by the sherrif's department and 'extradited' to Nevada (at my expense) and would have to sit in jail until my case was called."

I explained to him that I was TRYING to resolve this with him; I offerred the letter from my bank, signed by the Vice President, confirming that this had been a security breach on my account and had occured while I was not even in town to USE my computer, but that NEVERTHELESS, I was willing to settle it with them. Again, he started with the threats that he had to have it ALL today. No "payment plans" available. Never any mention made as to my letter from the bank and could care less that I didn't initiate the charges. He THEN said he had to ask me some questions for the "authorities"....1.) Would you rather be picked up by the sherrif at home or at work? 2.) Have you ever been arrested before?....and other personal questions designed to scare the shit out of me. (I must admit, he did a pretty good job; I later spoke to my attorney about it, who informed me that this guy was obviously just an "aggressive collector" and to just pay them as soon as I could and have no further dealings with this guy.)

Jeez, I TOLD him I would have the entire amount to them by the end of the week, but that was not good enough. Obviously, this is coming out of my pocket, even though I didn't initiate the transactions. You'd think that there would be some SMALL degree of compassion given the circumstances. Every other place was just grateful that I was willing to cover the charges. This guy has got me REALLY worried, despite what my attorney said. Can they prosecute me if I'm making an effort to pay them off??

Has anyone out there had any similar dealings with PrePaid ATM, or specifically, this John Keeler charachter?

Thanks!
 

hhcfreebie

Dormant account
Since online gambling is in the grey area. The answer is no, they can't do a thing.
They might threat you, but unless they send their hitman out of their own pocket there is nothing they can do.
However, I have to ask why did you contact your credit card or bank and get your money back?
It's your daughter that messed up, it's your responsibility to pay up. You tried to get your money back and I guess you succeeded. No wonder they will be super pissed.
Just imagine if your hit a jackpot, will you be too thrilled when the casino give you excuses after excuses? Or pay you up, only to take them back later? (such as a bad check)
Of course, this guy from PPATM has an attitude problem. That's because they are very powerless when it comes to player fraud or charge back. If you really want to settle it in good faith, you might as well contact them before you contact your bank/credit card and get your money back.
 

jpm

Dormant account
The next time you speak with them, tell them that I for one will NEVER use their services based on the way they are treating you. And I'll recommend to my friends that they never use them either!
 

recruit

Dormant account
hhcfreebie said:
Since online gambling is in the grey area. The answer is no, they can't do a thing.
They might threat you, but unless they send their hitman out of their own pocket there is nothing they can do.
However, I have to ask why did you contact your credit card or bank and get your money back?
It's your daughter that messed up, it's your responsibility to pay up. You tried to get your money back and I guess you succeeded. No wonder they will be super pissed.
Just imagine if your hit a jackpot, will you be too thrilled when the casino give you excuses after excuses? Or pay you up, only to take them back later? (such as a bad check)
Of course, this guy from PPATM has an attitude problem. That's because they are very powerless when it comes to player fraud or charge back. If you really want to settle it in good faith, you might as well contact them before you contact your bank/credit card and get your money back.
No, I didn't press my credit card co for a refund, because I just assumed I would have to pay the charges, since she is a minor....any thoughts on this anyone? If I had never played online, I would say "screw it", and not pay a dime. But because I DO play (which is precisely how she got my info; suggestion to everyone: do not check the box "remember password" if you have..."curious" teenagers in the house!!) I certainly don't want to be "black-balled" or banned from any of my favorite places. Maybe I'm going about this all wrong; I've never had anything happen like this before. ANY suggestions from any of you out there would be greatly appreciated and might actually let me get a good night's sleep? thanks
 

recruit

Dormant account
jpm said:
The next time you speak with them, tell them that I for one will NEVER use their services based on the way they are treating you. And I'll recommend to my friends that they never use them either!
Thanks for the vote of support...I just don't get the "Nevada" connection...from previous posts, it looks like they are out of Ohio or New York maybe, but they keep quoting Nevada laws..........
 

jpm

Dormant account
My thoughts were that since she was a minor and did not have permission, she couldn't have legally used your credit cards, so I don't think the cc companies can hold you legally responsible. However, parents usually are liable for the willful misconduct of their minor children, so I'm not sure which way this would fall. Probably in your favor since they were technically fraudulent charges.

Then there's the fact that most of these casinos require you to be at least 18 (or 21 at some) in order to play, so there's another one in your favor. The problem is, how do you prove it was her and not you (especially in light of the Evil Rhonda incident).

You may find your accounts closed at some casinos and/or credit cards when its all said & done but it may be worth it if they forgive some of your debt. Personally I think you should have her get a part time job to pay off whatever debts aren't forgiven.
 

recruit

Dormant account
jpm said:
My thoughts were that since she was a minor and did not have permission, she couldn't have legally used your credit cards, so I don't think the cc companies can hold you legally responsible. However, parents usually are liable for the willful misconduct of their minor children, so I'm not sure which way this would fall. Probably in your favor since they were technically fraudulent charges.

Then there's the fact that most of these casinos require you to be at least 18 (or 21 at some) in order to play, so there's another one in your favor. The problem is, how do you prove it was her and not you (especially in light of the Evil Rhonda incident).

You may find your accounts closed at some casinos and/or credit cards when its all said & done but it may be worth it if they forgive some of your debt. Personally I think you should have her get a part time job to pay off whatever debts aren't forgiven.
Oh HONEY, part time job does not even BEGIN to describe the lesson she is going to learn from this!! Not only have we already addressed the financial end with her, and also the parents of her "buddy" who apparently (per his own admission) was the instigator, she is going to personally call each and every company involved (except maybe PPATM, as no one deserves their abusive tactics) and make full disclosure. The computer is now "locked" to her for ANYthing, including homework (I'm so mean) which means a major inconvenience to have to use the ones at school without (gasp) DSL. Not that this resolves the money thing - it doesn't by a long shot - but I don't think she'll try this little stunt again. She actually thought that they would just automatically "forgive" the whole thing because she entered on someone else's account (mine) . Sigh.....
 

Stanford

Dormant account
recruit said:
Today, in an attempt to work things out with Prepaid atm (my bank returned $1100 in charges she made) I was connected to a "John Keeler" who was in the "Fraud Investigations" dept. I read the earlier posts about John Grey's antics and this guy must be his evil twin....the very first words out of his mouth were," Has the sherrif's office contacted you yet?" He went on to say that this was a "Grand larceny felony" in the state of Nevada and that if I "did not pay the full amount today via MoneyGram, that I would be picked up by the sherrif's department and 'extradited' to Nevada (at my expense) and would have to sit in jail until my case was called."
I always recommend Benjamin Dover. Find his web site and have a look.

In my state, you can tap your own phone legally because you can record your own coversations. Radio shack can provide the recording device cheap. It really would be nice to get those threats on tape.

Ask Benjamin about contacting your state attorneys general's office. That is probably what I would do.

Play scared till you get the goods. The more rabbit you are, the more dog they will be... which is what you want. IMHO.

Stanford
 

recruit

Dormant account
Stanford said:
I always recommend Benjamin Dover. Find his web site and have a look.

In my state, you can tap your own phone legally because you can record your own coversations. Radio shack can provide the recording device cheap. It really would be nice to get those threats on tape.

Ask Benjamin about contacting your state attorneys general's office. That is probably what I would do.

Play scared till you get the goods. The more rabbit you are, the more dog they will be... which is what you want. IMHO.

Stanford
I LOVE Ben!! (And his name kills me, i.e., "BendOver") Being in Dallas, he's on the radio all the time here....it never occurred to me to get his help on something like this. Great suggestion, thanks!
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Wannabe intimidators like this rarely enjoy being under the spotlight, and the threat of it may do wonders for his attitude!

Whilst I certainly don't condone this sort of casino/cash processor behaviour, I guess there's a cynical view out there bred from dealings with fraudulently inclined players or just plain welchers. There are definitely plenty of those out there, too.

If there is anything positive in this sad situation, it does serve to remind everyone of just how troublesome and expensive teenagers can be, requiring extraordinary measures to keep them away from credit cards and especially online gambling access.

BTW the guy that owns PrePaidATM is possibly more client and legally sensitive than his "collector." I seem to recall that he was one of the many industry people investigated at the time of the Jay Cohen/WWTS action by the US Justice authorities. Jay went back to the States to argue his case whilst many of the others entered pleas and settled.
 
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recruit

Dormant account
jetset said:
Wannabe intimidators like this rarely enjoy being under the spotlight, and the threat of it may do wonders for his attitude!

Whilst I certainly don't condone this sort of casino/cash processor behaviour, I guess there's a cynical view out there bred from dealings with fraudulently inclined players or just plain welchers. There are definitely plenty of those out there, too.

If there is anything positive in this sad situation, it does serve to remind everyone of just how troublesome and expensive teenagers can be, requiring extraordinary measures to keep them away from credit cards and especially online gambling access.

BTW the guy that owns PrePaidATM is possibly more client and legally sensitive than his "collector." I seem to recall that he was one of the many industry people investigated at the time of the Jay Cohen/WWTS action by the US Justice authorities. Jay went back to the States to argue his case whilst many of the others entered pleas and settled.
Jetset, you don't know how long I even debated throwing this whole issue up here on the forum - it sounds so much like so many "evil player" stories you read about poor losers, sour grapes, etc...this is part of the reason I really feel I need to clean up her mess - I don't want that kind of reputation in the industry, even if it were unfounded. Sure, casinos have been burnt - and I'm sure they have heard millions of UNTRUE variations of my story and been beat out of deposits because of it. That's what kills me - I'M OFFERING TO PAY THESE GUYS AT PPATM! But shit, after being threatened, insulted, and otherwise verbally abused, it does not make one want to rush to the moneygram center to pay them, especially in front of the ones who have been decent and willing to work with me...THOSE are the ones I really feel for...the places I've played at for years and KNOW that these transactions were not mine, based on the amounts and the betting style, etc, etc.

I always enjoy reading your posts - you seem very well informed. Can you elaborate on the PPATM legal issue with the owner that you mentioned in your reply? Maybe it will help me in my cause to deal with these jerks. Thanks
 

recruit

Dormant account
Stanford said:
I always recommend Benjamin Dover. Find his web site and have a look.

In my state, you can tap your own phone legally because you can record your own coversations. Radio shack can provide the recording device cheap. It really would be nice to get those threats on tape.

Ask Benjamin about contacting your state attorneys general's office. That is probably what I would do.

Play scared till you get the goods. The more rabbit you are, the more dog they will be... which is what you want. IMHO.

Stanford
Hey Stanford - I have tried all morning to find the Ben Dover site in which I can submit a query for his help...all I can seem to find is broadcasts of his tv / newspaper shows, but nothing in which I can request help...do you have an email address or web site I can go to? thanks
 

jpm

Dormant account
I'm confused about something recruit, why is PPATM after you for payment? I thought these were pre-paid atm cards, hence the name PPATM. It sounds like they were letting you use it like a charge card though (buy now, pay later in full like the original Amex card). What happened that they now need to be reimbursed for charges?
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
recruit said:
Hey Stanford - I have tried all morning to find the Ben Dover site in which I can submit a query for his help...all I can seem to find is broadcasts of his tv / newspaper shows, but nothing in which I can request help...do you have an email address or web site I can go to? thanks
www.bendover.com ? Btw, if you search for Ben Dover on the web, you will find some "interesting" hits. There is also a British porn actor with this name.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
JPM raises a good point.

The guy who owns PPATM has been involved in various online gambling businesses, and he settled his plea with the authorities as far as I am aware and has nothing outstanding in that regard.

These cases date back to 2000 or early 2001 I think (Jay Cohen was released from his term of imprisonment in the States just last week) Because they mainly involved sportsbook operators a lot of the in-depth coverage is on sites like The Rx, Sports911 and RGT Online, although there were discussions on WOL too. The archives at these sites will have chapter and verse.
 

recruit

Dormant account
jpm said:
I'm confused about something recruit, why is PPATM after you for payment? I thought these were pre-paid atm cards, hence the name PPATM. It sounds like they were letting you use it like a charge card though (buy now, pay later in full like the original Amex card). What happened that they now need to be reimbursed for charges?
If you've been a customer in good standing for some length of time, they offer ACH bank withdrawls, which are instant. Have done them forever with no problem. Of course, they have all your info right there and you just plug in the check # you want to use - very simple. (and so thought my daughter's pal, apparently) PPATM then submits it to the bank and they get paid a few days later .(or not, in this case, since my bank account was pretty well wiped out)
Some were paid, but after it got up past $1000, my bank started returning the items.
 

jpm

Dormant account
Oh, ok. That makes more sense now. Thanks.

BTW, I think that pretty much everywhere, the pal would be jointly and separately liable in civil court for this spending spree in. So not only would your daughter be liable for the entire bill, but so would he. You may want to see if his parents would like to settle it the easy way. Then they can get it out of him however they see fit!
 

recruit

Dormant account
jpm said:
Oh, ok. That makes more sense now. Thanks.

BTW, I think that pretty much everywhere, the pal would be jointly and separately liable in civil court for this spending spree in. So not only would your daughter be liable for the entire bill, but so would he. You may want to see if his parents would like to settle it the easy way. Then they can get it out of him however they see fit!
yes, we have already spoken to the parents of the other individual involved. They just don't view this as serious at all, which just pisses me off to no end. We have forbidden our daughter from continuing to befriend this individual in any way shape or form going forward. The parents think we are "overreacting" to this and the conversation we had with them Sunday evening actually got quite heated. My kiddo is no angel (obviously) but she has NEVER done anything like this in the past. She has a 3.5 GPA, on the honor roll every semester and does not drink, do drugs, etc. She has never given us one iota of trouble, EVER. Not that I'm "blaming" everything on her buddy, but jeeez, I certainly don't want to encourage the relationship. Hadn't thought about civil court - good suggestion.
 

m249a

Dormant account
maybe this will help...

I own a company in Virgina. When a vendor client or anyone burns me I can file whats known as a Warrent in debt. Cost about $60.00 plus "fees". Now I don't know if this is exclusive to Va or if other states use this as well. But the process is very easy and simple. All you have to do is prove they owe you money and the judgement is granted. For example, I repo someones car, sell it as quickly as possible at an auction and the file a warrent in debt against them for the remainder of their balance plus fees. Now if they can't pay the judgement I go back to court and file a wage garnishment and or property lein.
I know this sounds harsh, but because we as parents are responsible for our little angles, this young mans parents should be responsible for some if not all of the fradulent activities. Good luck and feel free to send me a private message if you would like more info...over the years I have learned some very effective ways to make someone pay....used cars have a way of doing that :cool:
 

jpm

Dormant account
Just filing the civil suit (small claims, probably $20 or so) may be enough to get them to pony up some money. They'll know you're serious when they get served!
 
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