1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
  3. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Predicting random

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Rusty, May 16, 2007.

    May 16, 2007
  1. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Has anyone else played MG slots so much that they think they can predict how they will play?
    For eg hallowenies after you hit the free spins with a retrigger will either put you back on very quickly or the scatter symbols will basically dissapear from reels 1 and 2 and you will often get scatters on real 4 and 5 together.
    When the scatter eventualy comes in on real 1 you will not get another scatter with it.
    Also if you hit a decent win you generally go 10/15 spins without a win straight after.
    Twister plays exactly the same way.
    With Aztec ritches I waited over 300 spins for the feature and I knew it would be garbage. I won 25 free spins and hit 1 win (9 lines) of 3 jacks hmmm very random I'm sure.
    200 spins later and no more feature but I knew when my money was nearly gone it would keep giving 2 scatters as it usually does.
    I find it is quite easy to predict when I'm on a losing streak but I always carry on to try and prove myself wrong :eek2:
    I wish I would :D
    Anyway if winning/losing patterns do exist then even if you cashed out it or went bust they would be waiting for you next time.
    Do any other regular slot players think they have spotted general patterns (winning or losing) or noticed the same things as me or have I finally cracked?
     
  2. May 16, 2007
  3. I<3Microgaming

    I<3Microgaming Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Canada
    I think you may be right if you're always playing the slots the same way (i.e: clicking spin at same intervals, always autoplaying, etc).

    I have found some patterns too but I never play MG slots the same way... I vary my play (little bit of autoplay, a little manual clicking, waiting different intervals between spins, etc) and I have found it stays pretty random plus makes it much more exciting :thumbsup:
     
    2 people like this.
  4. May 16, 2007
  5. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Errrrrmmmm..... :rolleyes:

    If you set out to look for patterns chances are you will find them, particularly with such high variance games.
    It is completely normal for people to think something is 'rigged' when they're having a bad run, but realistically it would be very counter-productive for the casinos; It's much better for them if you get a good run for your money - loads of fun playing time while they slowly take their 4-6% off you. If you have a good time you're much more likely to come back.
    If they rigged the slots so you lost your stack in double quick time with a 60-70% return you'd likely soon give up depositing & playing there any more.

    I wish I had the time to plot the reels on Halloweenies - I'm fairly sure there are 2 scatters on R1, maybe on R2 as well, and almost certainly 3 on R5.
    My (large) gut feel is this is one on the easiest slots to get free-spins on. :thumbsup:

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. May 16, 2007
  7. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    hehe aztec gold 35 free spins 9 lines.
    Wins=2
    3 tens twice.

    My (large) gut feel is this is one on the easiest slots to get free-spins on.
    lol yeah about every 200 spins average but I used to think that.
    ive played it thousands of spins lately and I reckon out of the last 10 times i got the spins i did'nt make *10 bet which is a joke.
    Better still laddies has just crashed which is a shame as I was already 55 spins in on pollen nation without winning a spin higher than my stake, I may be making records here!
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2007
  8. May 16, 2007
  9. Rettahs

    Rettahs Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Saint Louis

    KK, is Ho Ho Ho considered to be a low to medium variance slot? I used to love to play this one and for months I could catch the free spins with retriggers if I hung in there long enough but these last few months the hits just are not there no matter how long I hang in there and trust me I have stuck with it much longer than I should have 600+ spins several sessions now which to me seems a bit off for that slot. Last night I went over 500 before I just gave up. I know I should just stop spinning but I play for fun not just for the money that comes out of it and I used to enjoy playing that slot a lot so my only question is what is it considered a low to medium variance slot or just a crappy one that you can get lucky on some times lol :).

    Oh and by the way, how did you come out on that free chip with Prince of Sherwood? I saw your screen shots and had a free chip from an RTG and I played Prince of Sherwood also and like you it hit back to back 4 times in a row but my return was not as large as yours but I still found it funny how I do the best on free chips and or a capped bonus at the RTG's.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. May 16, 2007
  11. reda

    reda Senior Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    cleaning bussiness
    Location:
    HOUSTON
    i play a lot of rtg slots but i find patterns in those like you mentioned. it seems when slots are playing you can click on any game and most of them will be loose . and when you cannot hit NOTHING on certain days you can just about bet that all the slots are playing the same way. and then there are days when you trigger the features and your happy BUT YOU GET CRAP. its bad when you finally do triger features and your only betting 20 to 40 cents and the best you get back is less than 2 dollars. on days like that i find it useless to bet a 1.00 because your betting way more then you will get back.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. May 16, 2007
  13. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    you can't predict slots. or anything served by a random number generator.

    when you are losing, you can seem to predict losing spins because you're expecting one every time. similar to the "hit all the red lights" illusion. we've all felt like we just KNEW the dealer was going to pull that one-outer for 21 vs your pat 20. or that that freespins round would pay nothing. if it paid 1000x bet would you still remember how you were certain it would be a stingy one?

    i empathize and can see what you mean, certain scatter icons appearing more than normal and seeming to always come after certain other events. try to be objective and look out for the spins that contradict your theory, and for yet more certainty and credibility, record the spins for further analysis possibly with a team of number crunchers. superstitiously, some say that the delays/hangs when playing are the computer rigging you to lose, and i agree i feel safer from tampering the faster the cards come. but truly there's nothing to worry about and these little anomalies/delays in packet sending are common in all online data transfers.

    why are we always saying we can know when a dry spell or a close-but-no-cigar configuration is coming up? if you're going to discover a predictable string in these games, let's at least look for patterns of predictability in the win streaks, not the losing streaks eh! all above is JMO don't lynch me :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. May 16, 2007
  15. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I'm no Zoozie, but I reckon Hohoho is very low variance; You hit lots of wins - probably on more than 50% of the spins - but they are mostly very small.
    The free-spins hit on average every 100-120 spins. The payout is still relatively low as it's only x2, but what I like is that you get 20 spins which gives you a better chance than other slots of a re-trigger! I once had it re-trigger 4 times for a total of 100 free-spins! :cool:

    The RTG: Hey I'm a low-roller - it will be weeks before I finish the WR on that! :rolleyes:

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. May 16, 2007
  17. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I ca'nt afford the rope to string you up :p
    It certainly would be interesting to look at it more objectively and do some number crunching after all this would prove or disprove what I am saying.
    The problem is of course how big do you make the data set and who wants to do such a painstaking unpaid task?

    However, there are definately patterns in hallowenies for eg
    You only need to play it for a few thousand spins and you will notice certain patterns of how the scatters fall.

    1) you will notice that when you hit the scatters on reel 1 and 2 it is rare for you to hit the feature.(actually less often than say when you hit reel 1 and 3 or any other combo) this is significant as statiscally it should be more often.

    2) You will notice how often you hit the scatters on both reel 4 and 5 when you have no other scatters.Again this is far more than is statiscally likely.

    if you can be bothered to play it for long enough the above patterns will be very obvious.
    I have noticed other low variance slots with free spin scatters have the same patterns such as Twister and munchkins.

    I guess if nobody else experiences the same thing then I will do the numbers.
    as it is possible that it is just suggestive reasoning on my part.

    Might need to enlist some help from Zoozie if comes down to numbers.
    I guess you know the reel lay out Zoozie?
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. May 17, 2007
  19. XXLClubCasino

    XXLClubCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Curacao
    You might know or not that some RNG are taking additional daily/hourly weather forecast values or values from the stock market (exchange rates etc.) to generate their random numbers this to add additional non CPU related varience to further increase the randomness.

    This could also explain that on some days those external data are more favorable to a particular slot and there for the hit frequency is higher on some days.

    At the end of the day it always come down to the fact that perfect RNGs are not predictable and this is definitely one of the main difference between a good casino software and a free casino game for windows based on the windows random engine function.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. May 17, 2007
  21. mikepipe

    mikepipe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    owner
    Location:
    still progressing
    Good theme Rusty!
    Yes, i am sure taht there are patterns. In MG slots and in RTG, but i didnt collect my material; it s been a lot of experiences like yours with halloweenies.
    My most predictable is cleos gold at RTG. I get the feature very often, when cleo is on the first line of the first wheel and a pyramid below with a second pyramid on wheel 2 or three. If you (i...) find this pattern its a 90& for the third pyramid to come.
    And this pattern comes very often after a series of double scatter hits.
    ok---- i know, it can be blunder and ans "overslotted" brain , but at cleo i am quite sure.:what:
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. May 17, 2007
  23. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    I think Patterns exist

    That is all I play (RTG)

    I find patterns all the time and have had 3 cashouts in the last week. Not alot, because I dont gamble alot, but nevertheless, cashouts!

    IMHO....I find that when "I" play games that have just hit the Random JP, they seem to do well to get it back up again. Also....As I have stated this before.....there are always 2 or 3 games that hit alot of bonuses and the rest wont do that well. Ill give you an example


    Casino Yesterday>>>> I put in $20, started with honeybee, after 3 spins left it. Went to Goldbeard, did 3 spins ...on the the 3rd spin got bonus for 4 spins, won $2.80 on first 3 bonus spins, on 4th bonus spin hit for $110, immediatley left. Went to Cleopatra...got TWO bonus spins in 20 spins, left after 2nd. Went to a few others and played 3 spins and left like money, outofthisworld and prince. Went to Paris, got a bonus for 35 spins on third try!! Left , went back to Ronin, got 1 bonus and left went to Cleo and got another bonus and cashed out

    Two weeks ago...Goldbeard and Honey to the Bee were giving me bonus spins like it was my last day while others gave me none.
     
  24. May 17, 2007
  25. amatrine

    amatrine Crazy Cat Lady webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona City, Az
    Re

    One pattern I have sen in goldbeard is that it seems I will hit two gold coins often if it is going to hit free spins, and I wont if it is not .

    Ama
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. May 17, 2007
  27. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Is it possible that the software has two or three modes instead of just random.

    Could there be routines that can kick in if you are on a big losing/winning streak that ensure you ultimately get around 95% payout?

    From a Casinos point of view this would ensure a predictable profit margin which is obviously desirable and for the player it would mean at least some success some of the time which is good for repeat business.

    It certainly does feel that there is an invissible on/off switch as regards wins on certain software.

    I could throw in how the prima/MG poker software behaves (low stakes sit and go) into the mix as well.

    Anyway as has been said I do not have the numbers to back my theories up only my own happy/painful experiences but I think it is interesting to discuss software "behaviour"

    Ultimately I have fun and that is why I play but this nagging doubt I have maybe only cured when the UK regulated casinos are advertised as random, independently audited and gambling comission regulated.

    You will notice that non of the leading brands cared to comment on the issue of regulation and licensing in my "UK REGULATED CASINOS" thread which is a shame as their input would of been most welcome.
    Their silence is, infact, deafening but ultimately it is up to the player to educate themselves on this issue.
     
  28. May 17, 2007
  29. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    last time this came up i tried to bring up that the predetermined win value of each spin is random and that the reels just align in such a way to create this payout. for example if there are 3000 ways to make a payout of 0.00, etc and one way to make the progressive jackpot, then in the computer they store 3000 balls that pay 0 and one ball that pays the jackpot and the corresponding number of balls for the ways of each payout. then the slot, having drawn the payout ball when you spin, allows the reels to set a representation of the payout. so long as the probabilities stay the same, they do not need to "draw" a specific reel combination at the moment the spin begins, but only a randomly chosen payout which they can show to you in perhaps a multitude of ways.

    i am thinking then the machine can also use this tell if it is hitting the longshots (say 50x payouts or higher) too frequently, and likewise if the stingier hits (of 0 and <1 bet payouts) are happening too much as well. this might serve to tune the slots to their projected payouts, by not allowing draw after draw from the lowest wins or total losses, and by not paying out huge win after huge win in a short time. it will make sure to throw in wins (will reject "no-win" balls until a decent-paying outcome is chosen) when there have been many draws from the red zone on my attached chart i threw up, and it avoids choosing multiple wins from the blue area in close succession.

    i'm not trying to suggest anything, but that if slot payouts are adjustable, there must be some way they avoid being totally impartial to what they pay out. i dunno, it's tough to get one's head around. i believe they (slots) are fair, but random? i don't see how they could be entirely so. i don't bother much with them anyway, because to get the real returns that equalise all the money they suck, one has to spin for quite some time. they're growing on me a bit, but mostly only t-struck. </ramble>
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. May 17, 2007
  31. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    That is quite an interesting take on things Happygo' and indeed if a slot had an adjustable payout it follows that it can not be truly random and indeed from a programming point of view your idea makes sense.
    Of course it is possible to program a slot that is entirely random with an expected payout %
    You simply calculate the total amount of payout from the total line combinations and adjust the paytable accordingly taking into consideration the expected wins from any features you incorporate into the slot.
    Every "spin" should then draw a random number to generate the position for each "reel"
    Having programmed my own 5 line slots I have not noticed any of the patterns I have mentioned though obviously streaks still occur if not as pronounced as in the online casinos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. May 17, 2007
  33. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    just to elaborate, my main reason for entertaining this line of thinking is because most live machines and apparently also on rtg's software the payout of certain machines/games can be tweaked. if there is a way to make the game pay out at different rates, then the game can't be randomly choosing the physical positions of each reel each and every time with equal probability of any one of the stops coming up. and the way i understand it is in a live slot machine, the computer chips control the whole thing, and it couldn't be so simple as reel one choose a number 1-36 corresponding to a reel stop and repeat for remaining reels. but even in this case you could alter the payouts by making the game more likely to choose a really cruddy first/second stop to lessen the winning combinations possible. so that's all i got for now. good luck cracking the code and breaking out of the matrix and all that :D:thumbsup:
     
  34. May 18, 2007
  35. AudiManinBoro

    AudiManinBoro Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    UK
    Rusty, the fact that they can state with clear confidence a `win ratio` of a `certain percentage` tells you that these slots are not totally random. In order for a certain percentage to be achieved, a slot cannot play `randomly`.Of course there will be a certain amount of randomness in all the slots, but once a slot has paid out enough and has gone BEYOND its % payout, the software will be instructed to start taking money in again. Random by definition means you CANNOT determine what % factor a casino will win or lose. By stating that they CAN and knowing that they CAN, the foregone conclusion is that random is only random up until a certain point, when the slot needs to take money back, and after big payouts, thousands of poor soles go through losing streaks. My two pennies for what its worth lol
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. May 18, 2007
  37. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    is this a wind up

    so is it better to play on a rainy day or a windy day ......or a stormy day when the FTSE index has climbed 2 points and the price of shares in google are down 4points? Silly Me and i thought that on some days the hit ratio changed due to the casino trying vto balance their RTP% ....cos the only pattern i can see is that after a large payout the RTP% drops ........dramatically.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. May 18, 2007
  39. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I think the idea is that a payout % is stated as the average payout and any 1 slot is not set to payout an exact % over a specified time frame.
    for eg a random slot % payout would be calculated thus;

    (20 symbols each reel) squared by 5(reels)
    20*20*20*20*20 =3,200,000 combinations

    You would then assume that each of those combinations was achieved once and work out how many coins were paid over those combinations.

    eg
    500,000 winning combinations paying 2,800,000 coins in total

    so the average payout % would be 2,800,000 coins returned in 3,200,000 spins = 87.5% payout

    It does'nt matter that this calculation is based on 1 coin/1 line as it would be the same 5 coins/5 lines
     

Share This Page