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Powerbet freerolled me for $15,000 and is not paying winnings

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by hackkevin, Jan 8, 2007.

    Jan 8, 2007
  1. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    Hello all. I signed up for Powerbet casino at the recommendation of a few people here because of their good payment records in the past - this was on November 8th. I took the WINBIG1 bonus and lost it pretty quickly, but then had good luck with a larger bonus that they happened to be offering that week. I had the good fortune to get the balance to about $15,000 and cleared the wagering requirements.

    After some other play and so forth, I got bored and initiated a withdrawal. They wanted a "faxback" form and other documents to prove my identity (silly if you ask me), but I eventually got around to getting them faxed and scanned over to them. They then took quite a long time to pay me, and when I checked my NETeller account on January 4th, I saw a payment for $2300. However, all my withdrawals were for $2500. I asked what the deal was, they took days to respond, and then responded with this:

    ------------------

    Dear Customer,

    Thank you for contacting the Casino Support Team.

    Your deposits have been refunded into your neteller account. You are under the legal gambling age for Calinfornia (21). Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

    Please feel free to contact our 24/7 Support Team if you have any additional questions.

    Sincerely,
    Chris
    Casino Support Agent

    -------------------

    Now, I have attempted to play at other casinos where they don't allow 21 year old players, and they simply just stop you from signing up - which seems like the right thing to do. However, I did not lie on the signup form, and Powerbet knowingly allowed me to play at their site while I was under 21 years old. I am over 18 years old, and I'm allowed to play in many casinos here in California, so I did not violate their Terms and conditions about the age restriction.

    Furthermore, please see this website proving that the minimum age of gambling is indeed 18 years of age with the exception of casinos that offer alcohol (which Powerbet doesn't, at least not to my knowledge):

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Other relevant quotes:

    All that aside, they basically accepted my wagers knowing that I was underaged, and would not pay me a dime if I won - but I bet that they wouldn't refund my losses had I lost, right!?

    Casinomeister, please do something about this. I have emailed their support and will file a PAB as well as RTG dispute (is Montana still the place to go?) and contact the casino support person on the board, Oliver Curran.
     
  2. Jan 8, 2007
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    You're misreading the law in California. You have no case. The 18years or older law only applies to casinos on Indian reservations, NOT online or other methods.

    Just be glad they gave you your deposits back, and move on....Sorry to be harsh, but it doesn't look good.


    I think you're citing from:

    This only applies to licensed gaming clubs IN California.
     
  4. Jan 8, 2007
  5. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    The law says nothing about being 21 to play in casinos whatsoever - the casinos are allowed to set their own age limits. It merely says that many of the casinos are 21 years old, but that means some of the casinos are 18 years old, meaning the legal age to gamble is 18.

    If it said "all of the casinos were 21," then Powerbet would have a case. But because the state allows even one non-Indian casino to permit 18 year old players, it means the legal age must be 18 years old unless alcohol is present.

    Regardless of that fact, Powerbet knew I was from California and allowed me to play the site. Let's suppose that the legal age to gamble was really 21 (and it isn't, as I proved). Then why would Powerbet allow me to signup, deposit, accept a bonus, and play on the site?

    Would they refund my money if I lost? I'll let you decide.
     
  6. Jan 8, 2007
  7. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Again, casinos on indian reservations can set their own age limits, NOT casinos/gaming clubs themselves. Show me a California law where it specifically states that you can be 18 and gamble in a casino not on an indian reservation, and I'll eat my words.


    The point is moot, they refunded your money. If you had lost, I doubt they would have, but right now, that's irrelevant.
     
  8. Jan 8, 2007
  9. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    There is also no mention ANYWHERE in any law that says the legal age to gamble is 21. Try to find it, I guarantee you won't be able to find it in the code of law that exists.

    More proof:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    And the popular chart found on many sites:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    See under California, Casinos & Slot Machines, it says 18/21, meaning it is 18 by itself and 21 if alcohol is present.
     
  10. Jan 8, 2007
  11. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    Tell you what - why don't you show me a law that says I have to be 21 to gamble? Powerbet is alleging that I am underage by the California law. As such, the burden of proof falls on them (and you, since you agree with them) to prove that it is illegal for me to gamble in my state being under 21 years of age.

    Good luck!
     
  12. Jan 8, 2007
  13. kyleb

    kyleb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Small Business Owner
    Location:
    Canada, United States, and England (wherever busin
    What 'hackkevin' is saying is correct - when someone makes a claim that you are in violation of the law, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser, not the accused.

    I've done some cursory checking, and I can't find anything that says you have to be 21 to gamble in California. Considering that I've gambled at non-Indian casinos when I was under 21 (legally, too - showed my ID and everything), anecdotal evidence seems to support this claim.

    winbig, do you have any evidence to the contrary?
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jan 8, 2007
  15. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    I would almost bet the farm that there is a law stating the fact that any gambling done (excluding bingo and lottery) outside a gaming club or indian reservation is illegal in CA.
     
  16. Jan 8, 2007
  17. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    That's not what Powerbet said was the problem. They said I was underaged. This is not in the law whatsoever, so, they don't have a case.

    And if gambling online is illegal in California, why does every single casino operator allow bets from California if they allow bets from the United States? Do you mean to say that you agree with casinos freerolling people: Keep the money if they lose, don't pay if they win?
     
  18. Jan 8, 2007
  19. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Nope, I don't condone it. I just know there's been plenty of other threads on here from people that are/were in the same situation, and they never got paid, either.
     
  20. Jan 8, 2007
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Avoid

    This period between 18 and 21 is a big pitfall when gambling online. I suspect the law in California is imprecise because the US does not recognise internet gambling as legitimate, and is trying to make it specifically illegal. The law also seems to give Indian Reservations a monopoly on casinos with Blackjack & Slots games.
    I doubt Powerbet have a sound case, and are just looking for a reason not to pay out $15,000. Given the many complaints about Powerbet, it was probably unwise depositing in the first place. Big bonuses at RTG seem to be the calling card of the rogue operator. The biggest bonuses I have ever seen were from the biggest rogue I have ever known, Crystal Palace once offered me over $30,000 in a single coupon! (Followed by another 14 if I lost!)

    To be safe, any player wanting to play online should wait till they reach 21 rather than run the risk of this 18/21 confusion.
     
  22. Jan 9, 2007
  23. OliverCurran

    OliverCurran Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Minimum Age

    Hi all,

    Well I am not surprised that fraudsters like Kyleb come online to support other fraudsters like Hackkevin, after all, they even play from the same IP address!

    Our information is that you do indeed need to be over the age of 21 to play from California.

    Therefore we refunded ALL the deposits Hackkevin ever made at Power Bet - even those he'd made previously and lost!

    I don't think we can be more fair than that!

    Best regards
    Oliver Curran
    Power Bet Casino
     
  24. Jan 9, 2007
  25. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    In reference to the other thread started by KyleB, how do you explain having the same IP as five other people here at the forum Hackkevin, when you say you are in California, and four of the six are supposedly in Washington? And you all have a complaint against the same casino in approximately the same timeframe? I believe in coincidence, but not this much.
     
  26. Jan 9, 2007
  27. umberto

    umberto Dormant account

    Hello Oliver.

    Nice seeing you around. Why did you let this player register anyway? Would you have paid back the deposits of the underaged player had he not won the 15.000$? I guess not as you ve been doing all the last years.... So, I can not stand you being here stating
    It's pathetic...

    Have fun...
     
  28. Jan 9, 2007
  29. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    Haha, same IP as these people in California and Washington, right.

    Here, I did your homework for you. Take a look at the attached image to this post and see that my IP is not even based in California due to my ISP being a bunch of idiots and routing IP's incorrectly. I am based in Madison, WI if you go by the IP I am posting from right now - Casinomeister himself can validate.

    But then again, I guess I'm from Washington too. Just another obvious lie to do whatever it takes to not pay the player his money when he risks his money, has all the supporting documentation to prove he is indeed a real person, and doesn't play from the same IP. Pretty standard, I guess. :thumbsup:
     
  30. Jan 9, 2007
  31. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Actually Kevin, I wasn't referencing anything that Oliver Curran posted, I was referring to the post made by Casinomeister earlier today in the thread that KyleB started.

     
  32. Jan 9, 2007
  33. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    So if this is your "information," why did you let me sign up in the first place? If I had lost my money, would you have refunded it?

    Obviously not. Pay me my money.
     
  34. Jan 9, 2007
  35. hackkevin

    hackkevin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Phone sales
    Location:
    Cali
    And I was referencing what Casinomeister said. I just posted IP records that show that my IP is totally messed up and not from California or Washington.
     
  36. Jan 9, 2007
  37. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Fair enough, it really makes no difference to me...I'm just one of those too curious type people. :D
     
  38. Jan 9, 2007
  39. kyleb

    kyleb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Small Business Owner
    Location:
    Canada, United States, and England (wherever busin
    I see, so you freeroll players by letting them signup at your site, deposit, wager, and if they win, confiscate their money. However, if they lose, it's all good and the law's not a big deal.

    Good job, Oliver! If that is your real name... (Warren Cloud)
     

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