Resolved Possible payment problem with Bet Phoenix, need advice please

cdomi66

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
Well if anyone saw my screenshots from last night, you'd know I did very well at Bet Phoenix.

I used a 110 bonus coupon with no max cashout, bonus noncashable.

My account is sitting at $10121.

I requested a 4000 dollar withdrawal through my moneybookers, and on logging in today, amount was returned to my cashier, with a rejected under status.

Chat knows nothing, but suggested I email [email protected] for information, which I've done.

I have never won anything this big, and am of course, anxious at the rejection, especially since no accompanying explanation was included.

Any advice would be appreciated on what I need to have/do/ask etc.

Thanks, and I'm trying not to accuse them on non payment in a bad way etc, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right on my end and then get feedback from you all so that maybe i can actually see that cash!

Thank you from a CM and cashout newbie!
 

jelsmith

Zombicidal Maniac
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Location
nashville tn
Did you submit docs? They may have a weekly withdraw limit. they are EXTREMELY slow payers though like 14 days...there are a couple threads around here on them.
 

cdomi66

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
Did you submit docs? They may have a weekly withdraw limit. they are EXTREMELY slow payers though like 14 days...there are a couple threads around here on them.

Yup they have all my docs, got that done when I first opened with them, and the payment request was rejected. Just no email or explanation why so far. Keeping fingers crossed. I don't mind slow pay, just want to be sure I'm paid ehhe
 

LHofsdal

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Location
NY
Contact Nicolas Johnson, the rep for this place. You can private message him on here. Maybe he can help.

LH
 

NicolasJohnson

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
A Place
Well if anyone saw my screenshots from last night, you'd know I did very well at Bet Phoenix.

I used a 110 bonus coupon with no max cashout, bonus noncashable.

My account is sitting at $10121.

I requested a 4000 dollar withdrawal through my moneybookers, and on logging in today, amount was returned to my cashier, with a rejected under status.

Chat knows nothing, but suggested I email [email protected] for information, which I've done.

I have never won anything this big, and am of course, anxious at the rejection, especially since no accompanying explanation was included.

Any advice would be appreciated on what I need to have/do/ask etc.

Thanks, and I'm trying not to accuse them on non payment in a bad way etc, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right on my end and then get feedback from you all so that maybe i can actually see that cash!

Thank you from a CM and cashout newbie!

Please stay calm, we are an honest bunch over here; you are going to be taken care of. :) You just sent me a PM, give me a couple of minutes to reply.

If no rules were broken then we won't break our rules either. I've emailed the payout people to see where your cash out stands.

Did you submit docs? They may have a weekly withdraw limit. they are EXTREMELY slow payers though like 14 days...there are a couple threads around here on them.

5 business days, and yes, we do have weekly limits of $4k.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Please stay calm, we are an honest bunch over here; you are going to be taken care of. :) You just sent me a PM, give me a couple of minutes to reply.

If no rules were broken then we won't break our rules either. I've emailed the payout people to see where your cash out stands.



5 business days, and yes, we do have weekly limits of $4k.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager

The problem is that what the OP experienced was NOT "normal". The withdrawal was NOT queued for processing, it was returned to the account. If the OP simply remained paitent, NOTHING would happen.

If the withdrawal disappeared from pending as it should, and it took a while getting paid, you would be able to get away with 14 days, maybe a little more, because this is still within the norm. What is NOT normal is returning the withdrawal back to the account for no OBVIOUS reason as far as the OP can see, and FAILING to provide an explanation for this.

WHY does chat "know nothing"?
WHY didn't this "Dean" act quickly in replying to the OP to assure them that there was nothing to worry about.

The OP is now getting worked up into a higher state of worry, this IS over $10K after all! No wonder little time was given for you to reply before the OP asked the forum for help. The OP's first two attempts to get to the bottom of this seem to have been "stonewalled", first by chat (we know nothing), and Dean, who didn't think this important enough to reply straight away. The OP may be thinking that the third attempt will also get "stonewalled", so was quick off the mark posting here after sending the PM.

This shows what problems shoddy customer service can create. Chat should have been there for the OP, not simply offloading the issue to Dean with a "we know nothing" attitude. Lack of interdepatmental communication is the root cause of such problems. CS are the front line interface, and as far as the player is concerned ARE the casino. If CS are provided "on the cheap", with little access to information and lack of ability to help in such situations, players will judge the casino based on the quality of CS they have received.

The industry has changed, and there are MANY tales from players about getting screwed over by unscrupulous casinos, so this is a REAL fear among players wherever they play. Casinos should appreciate this level of fear, and ACT QUICKLY to assure players that a glitch in processing a withdrawal is NOT down to an intention not to pay.

There are some casino groups that use this as a deliberate trap. They return a withdrawal to a player's account, but don't give a reason. The player thinks it is merely a glitch, and submits the withdrawal again. The casino THEN voids the winnings BECAUSE the player did not telepathically determine that there WAS a reason, and action was required before the withdrawal would be processed.
 

cdomi66

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
Thanks for the understanding vinylweatherman, yes, the amount 10k is a huge motivator eheh.

I've since spoken to Otto who says all looks good with my docs, playthru etc, and to try and do withdrawal again, and has emailed Dean on my behalf.

As well as Nicolas pm'd me and is on the case. Haven't heard from Dean but with 3 of us now emailing I'm hope there will be an explanation forthcoming.

It did sort of burn me a bit to see withdrawal rejected with no accompanying email (explanation). To me that would have been a standard operation, especially when dealing with money.

I am staying calm, I've been assured by Otto that things look fine, but will have to wait and see what Dean says.

My daughter needs a new car ;)

Thanks all for input, nice to have the support, this is the biggest amount I've ever won so felt way out of my depth eheh.

Marie


The problem is that what the OP experienced was NOT "normal". The withdrawal was NOT queued for processing, it was returned to the account. If the OP simply remained paitent, NOTHING would happen.

If the withdrawal disappeared from pending as it should, and it took a while getting paid, you would be able to get away with 14 days, maybe a little more, because this is still within the norm. What is NOT normal is returning the withdrawal back to the account for no OBVIOUS reason as far as the OP can see, and FAILING to provide an explanation for this.

WHY does chat "know nothing"?
WHY didn't this "Dean" act quickly in replying to the OP to assure them that there was nothing to worry about.

The OP is now getting worked up into a higher state of worry, this IS over $10K after all! No wonder little time was given for you to reply before the OP asked the forum for help. The OP's first two attempts to get to the bottom of this seem to have been "stonewalled", first by chat (we know nothing), and Dean, who didn't think this important enough to reply straight away. The OP may be thinking that the third attempt will also get "stonewalled", so was quick off the mark posting here after sending the PM.

This shows what problems shoddy customer service can create. Chat should have been there for the OP, not simply offloading the issue to Dean with a "we know nothing" attitude. Lack of interdepatmental communication is the root cause of such problems. CS are the front line interface, and as far as the player is concerned ARE the casino. If CS are provided "on the cheap", with little access to information and lack of ability to help in such situations, players will judge the casino based on the quality of CS they have received.

The industry has changed, and there are MANY tales from players about getting screwed over by unscrupulous casinos, so this is a REAL fear among players wherever they play. Casinos should appreciate this level of fear, and ACT QUICKLY to assure players that a glitch in processing a withdrawal is NOT down to an intention not to pay.

There are some casino groups that use this as a deliberate trap. They return a withdrawal to a player's account, but don't give a reason. The player thinks it is merely a glitch, and submits the withdrawal again. The casino THEN voids the winnings BECAUSE the player did not telepathically determine that there WAS a reason, and action was required before the withdrawal would be processed.
 

NicolasJohnson

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
A Place
The problem is that what the OP experienced was NOT "normal". The withdrawal was NOT queued for processing, it was returned to the account. If the OP simply remained paitent, NOTHING would happen.

If the withdrawal disappeared from pending as it should, and it took a while getting paid, you would be able to get away with 14 days, maybe a little more, because this is still within the norm. What is NOT normal is returning the withdrawal back to the account for no OBVIOUS reason as far as the OP can see, and FAILING to provide an explanation for this.

WHY does chat "know nothing"?
WHY didn't this "Dean" act quickly in replying to the OP to assure them that there was nothing to worry about.

The OP is now getting worked up into a higher state of worry, this IS over $10K after all! No wonder little time was given for you to reply before the OP asked the forum for help. The OP's first two attempts to get to the bottom of this seem to have been "stonewalled", first by chat (we know nothing), and Dean, who didn't think this important enough to reply straight away. The OP may be thinking that the third attempt will also get "stonewalled", so was quick off the mark posting here after sending the PM.

This shows what problems shoddy customer service can create. Chat should have been there for the OP, not simply offloading the issue to Dean with a "we know nothing" attitude. Lack of interdepatmental communication is the root cause of such problems. CS are the front line interface, and as far as the player is concerned ARE the casino. If CS are provided "on the cheap", with little access to information and lack of ability to help in such situations, players will judge the casino based on the quality of CS they have received.

The industry has changed, and there are MANY tales from players about getting screwed over by unscrupulous casinos, so this is a REAL fear among players wherever they play. Casinos should appreciate this level of fear, and ACT QUICKLY to assure players that a glitch in processing a withdrawal is NOT down to an intention not to pay.

There are some casino groups that use this as a deliberate trap. They return a withdrawal to a player's account, but don't give a reason. The player thinks it is merely a glitch, and submits the withdrawal again. The casino THEN voids the winnings BECAUSE the player did not telepathically determine that there WAS a reason, and action was required before the withdrawal would be processed.

You are completely right. The issue actually boils down to a false positive in our fraud system which triggered the behavior the player experienced.

Thanks for the understanding vinylweatherman, yes, the amount 10k is a huge motivator eheh.

I've since spoken to Otto who says all looks good with my docs, playthru etc, and to try and do withdrawal again, and has emailed Dean on my behalf.

As well as Nicolas pm'd me and is on the case. Haven't heard from Dean but with 3 of us now emailing I'm hope there will be an explanation forthcoming.

It did sort of burn me a bit to see withdrawal rejected with no accompanying email (explanation). To me that would have been a standard operation, especially when dealing with money.

I am staying calm, I've been assured by Otto that things look fine, but will have to wait and see what Dean says.

My daughter needs a new car ;)

Thanks all for input, nice to have the support, this is the biggest amount I've ever won so felt way out of my depth eheh.

Marie

Don't worry, you will get paid. Someone from our organization will be in touch with you today to make sure you get your first payment ASAP!

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 

cdomi66

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
Thank Nicolas, as of this moment, payout still in request status, and Dean hasn't emailed or called. But Otto has been a dear, and I will hang in there ;)

You are completely right. The issue actually boils down to a false positive in our fraud system which triggered the behavior the player experienced.



Don't worry, you will get paid. Someone from our organization will be in touch with you today to make sure you get your first payment ASAP!

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliates Manager
 

SlotsLover

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Location
California
payments

FWIW, I've never had any problems with them. I had an 8k withdrawal a few weeks ago and have received $6500 in approx 3 weeks in three payments.
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
New York
I was paid in full now, it was my error that I was only paid 6500 out of the 8000, I forgot that I reversed the other 1500 to play with.


Could you show us a screen shot of these payments being made via your transaction history page?

Thanks in advance since this would be comforting to other players...
 

SlotsLover

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Location
California
Could you show us a screen shot of these payments being made via your transaction history page?

Thanks in advance since this would be comforting to other players...

I was able to track back approx $4500 of the withdrawals to EWX. The $1500 was reversed and the other $2000 was a few weeks ago:

9/20/2010 4:17:50 PM DF-eWalletXpress Withdrawal Approved! ($2,055.00)
9/20/2010 4:12:31 PM DF-eWalletXpress Withdrawal Requested ($2,055.00)

10/5/2010 9:44:38 AM Manager Withdrawal Approved! ($600.00)
10/5/2010 9:44:38 AM Manager Withdrawal Requested ($600.00)
10/5/2010 9:43:58 AM Wire Transfer Withdrawal Requested ($900.00)
10/5/2010 9:43:14 AM DF-eWalletXpress Withdrawal Approved! ($1,500.00)
10/5/2010 9:42:17 AM DF-eWalletXpress Withdrawal Requested ($1,500.00)
10/2/2010 1:19:06 PM Manager Withdrawal Approved! ($1,000.00)
10/2/2010 1:19:06 PM Manager Withdrawal Requested ($1,000.00
 

cdomi66

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
Update

Well, I received an email from Dean stating :

"You need to request your payout the same way you deposited by. Please request your payout and you will be paid with in 5 to 7 buss days."

I phoned support to get Omar on phone (very nice man) and he agreed. So I say well I used a mastercard prepaid (reloadable) card, and talked to the provider and they said I can get deposits to card up to 2500 dollars. He tells me they aren't able to do that.

Then he says use netteller you will have money right away. To which I reply, netteller doesn't accept canadian customers. Ewalletxpress was the next suggestions, and I have to inform him that they quit taking canadian deposits around xmas time.

I, at this point ask him, what is the problem with using moneybookers? Especially since I have used with them for deposits in past so they know it functions, and he agrees that is my only option, to please resubmit my payout request and will receive in 2-5 business days.

He was concerned about me getting my money asap, hence his other payout suggestions. I thank him and tell him frankly, I don't mind waiting, as long I know it's going to be paid out I'm cool.

So on 8th I resubmitted payout request, and on checking it's status tonight, it's still in request mode....

I'm emailing Dean in regards to my convo with Omar, and hoping to see some progress soon.
 

cdomi66

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Location
Calgary, AB
yay :)

Got a phone call from Dean today and all is sorted and settled. Payment being processed :)

Thanks Nicolas for being so interactive, thanks Bet Phoenix Crew and thanks CM Crew for your support and information.

Was little nervewracking but I learned alot thru the process.

May you all win big!

:notworthy
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Well, I received an email from Dean stating :

"You need to request your payout the same way you deposited by. Please request your payout and you will be paid with in 5 to 7 buss days."

I phoned support to get Omar on phone (very nice man) and he agreed. So I say well I used a mastercard prepaid (reloadable) card, and talked to the provider and they said I can get deposits to card up to 2500 dollars. He tells me they aren't able to do that.

Then he says use netteller you will have money right away. To which I reply, netteller doesn't accept canadian customers. Ewalletxpress was the next suggestions, and I have to inform him that they quit taking canadian deposits around xmas time.

I, at this point ask him, what is the problem with using moneybookers? Especially since I have used with them for deposits in past so they know it functions, and he agrees that is my only option, to please resubmit my payout request and will receive in 2-5 business days.

He was concerned about me getting my money asap, hence his other payout suggestions. I thank him and tell him frankly, I don't mind waiting, as long I know it's going to be paid out I'm cool.

So on 8th I resubmitted payout request, and on checking it's status tonight, it's still in request mode....

I'm emailing Dean in regards to my convo with Omar, and hoping to see some progress soon.

As I said, shoddy CS creates a poor image.

PLAYERS are expected to know all the terms and conditions, yet the evidence here is that the CASINO has NOT familiarised itself with the terms and conditions for the deposit/withdrawal methods it offers. This lead to a number of fatuous suggestions to the customer, again giving the impression that the casino is creating hoops to jump through just for the hell of it.

It is NOT "rocket science" to determine the country of origin of their players. This is given at registration, and confirmed when documentation is checked. The casino should then KNOW which of the deposit/withdrawal methods are available to that player for GAMBLING TRANSACTIONS.

Finance should have KNOWN that the player could NEVER withdraw back to the method of deposit, so should NEVER have put a "hold" on the withdrawal because a different method was requested. CS should NOT have made two wrong suggestions before conceding that all along the player's selection of Moneybookers was the ONLY viable option after all.

The question has STILL not been answered. WTF is "the problem" in the first place with a request to withdraw to Moneybookers, whilst a request to Neteller (essentially the same service, but a different eWallet provider) is "OK".

Casinos should know the ins and outs of their processors so that they are NEVER in the position of requiring the player to "request the impossible" in order to get paid.

The "false positive" is also worrying. How do players guard against being innocent victims of the system, given that not every "false positive" case has a happy outcome for the player. Players with "normal circumstances" should NEVER become victims of the "false positive", and players with "less common" circumstances need advice on "tidying up" their data as it appears to companies running background checks on them.
Simple advice, such as making sure they have updated any changes in circumstances with relevant authorities, for example, updating their data on the electoral register after moving house, or getting married. Being consistent in how they use their name & address in "official circles", such as applying for credit, opening bank accounts, etc.

False positives may be down to such seemingly unconnected things, and players genuinely have no idea how this affects the results of anti fraud checks run by casinos.
 
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