Non-Bonus Complaint Plentyjackpots is definately fraudulent. IMO all RTG-Casinos should be avoided

rtuder

Dormant account
Hi there,

I wanted to withdraw my winnings in Jan 2009 and I'm still waiting for my money!

Here is the complete story about my "business relation" with PlentyJackpots and RTG/CDS:

12 Jan 2009: I depositted USD 100 and received an USD 500 bonus from them. At this time the playthru-requirement was 15x (deposit+bonus) which is USD 9,000.
I played some time and after making a playthrough of USD 10,600 I requested a payout of USD 5,000.
14 Feb 2009: email to support@plentyjackpots.com (no response)
26 Feb 2009: withdrawel was denied (without any notice), so I rerequested it
16 Mar 2009: Discussion with online-support: they told me that I have to send the faxback-form (although I already had)
14 May 2009: Discussion with online-support: I shall cancel and rerequest the withdrawel due to some software problems
13 Jun 2009: Discussion with online-support: Now suddenly the playthrough-requirements raised to 45x(deposit+bonus)
16 Jun 2009: Luckily after playing to reach the new requirement I still had USD 4,500.
15 Aug 2009: Discussion with online-support: Now the playthrough-requirements again raised to 90x(deposit+bonus)
04 Sep 2009: Again I was lucky and still had USD 3,000 so I again requested a withdrawel.
20 Sep 2009: request was denied. After checking with online-support they again asked me to send the faxback form.
08 Dec 2009: request was denied. After checking with online-support they again asked me to send the faxback form.

Up from this date I repeatedly discussed with online-chat and always heart the same lies about new payout systems, high amount of withdrawels and other stuff.

10 Jun 2010: I again had to rerequest the withdrawel due to a "new payout system"
19 Jun 2010: first contact with CDS
25 Aug 2010: They again wanted me to send the faxback-form
02 Sep 2010: They again wanted me to send the faxback-form

All in all I already had 84 discussions with online chat and of course have not seen any cent from those fraudsters.

My experiences with CDS:
This is more or less a fake. They only can do something when there are problems regarding playthru requirements or sth like that. If an operator simply don't pay they can't do anything.
Victor/CDS 23 Aug:
"We cannot but continue to press the casino for the release of your funds. Unfortunately, this is the extent of our mandate. We hope that the continued and persistant effort will come to fruition eventually."
"In response to your question about contacting RTG directly, this is not a possibility. CDS is the third party dispute resolution system and the only channel available for these matters. As we have stated before, we continue to press for a resolution of these withdrawals. The Operator did indicate they are working out a way to get you the funds which should be ready very soon."
They cannot do anything against fraudulent casino operators. They only can frindly ask them to pay out but nothing more.

My opinion about RTG:
As RTG offers only this CDS to report fraud it seems that they also don't care about criminal licensees.
 

takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
If you sleep with Dogs you will get Fleas. Rogue, Rogue and more Rogue! Sorry about your experiences but you shoulda done some research here before playing there. Unfortunately there is not much you are anyone else is going to be able to do. Thank you, however, for pointing out just how lame CDS is. It doesn't leave one with much confidence, huh?
 

De Beuker

Senior Member
I hate to say it but I dont think you'll ever get paid.
These guys are the worst of the worst, and they are at the very bottom of the roguepit for as long as I can remember, and they'll never ever get out.
Not even Virtual comes close, no matter how hard they try.

In your case they they pulled every possible stunt, I mean, they raised the WR all the way up to 90x??:eek: :rolleyes:
After you finished the WR and requested a cashout?! OMG!!
Its all beyond rogue.

And sadly its known that RTG dont give a rats a$$ who uses their software as long as they pay the licence fees.

But there are a few good RTG operators on the accredited list here http://www.casinomeister.com/accredited_casinos.php

Places like CWC and Inetbet wont offer 500% matchbonuses but WILL pay you within 24 hours if you manage to win.
No bullshit excuses, no WR that changes over and over again, no 2 years:eek2: of stalling tactics.

Better give up on this case, save yourself from more frustration and move on, as the only way to make these guys pay up is to travel to Costa Rica with a bunch of heavily armed thugs.
 

rtuder

Dormant account
I hate to say it but I dont think you'll ever get paid.

But there are a few good RTG operators on the accredited list here http://www.casinomeister.com/accredited_casinos.php
For me it is a question of ethics to don't play again on any RTG casino as I don't want to be a customer of a company which knowingly cooperates with criminals.

And, maybe if I can manage it to go to Costa Rica one day, I'll take some bombs with me :):)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Hi there,

I wanted to withdraw my winnings in Jan 2009 and I'm still waiting for my money!

Here is the complete story about my "business relation" with PlentyJackpots and RTG/CDS:

12 Jan 2009: I depositted USD 100 and received an USD 500 bonus from them. At this time the playthru-requirement was 15x (deposit+bonus) which is USD 9,000.
I played some time and after making a playthrough of USD 10,600 I requested a payout of USD 5,000.
14 Feb 2009: email to support@plentyjackpots.com (no response)
26 Feb 2009: withdrawel was denied (without any notice), so I rerequested it
16 Mar 2009: Discussion with online-support: they told me that I have to send the faxback-form (although I already had)
14 May 2009: Discussion with online-support: I shall cancel and rerequest the withdrawel due to some software problems
13 Jun 2009: Discussion with online-support: Now suddenly the playthrough-requirements raised to 45x(deposit+bonus)
16 Jun 2009: Luckily after playing to reach the new requirement I still had USD 4,500.
15 Aug 2009: Discussion with online-support: Now the playthrough-requirements again raised to 90x(deposit+bonus)
04 Sep 2009: Again I was lucky and still had USD 3,000 so I again requested a withdrawel.
20 Sep 2009: request was denied. After checking with online-support they again asked me to send the faxback form.
08 Dec 2009: request was denied. After checking with online-support they again asked me to send the faxback form.

Up from this date I repeatedly discussed with online-chat and always heart the same lies about new payout systems, high amount of withdrawels and other stuff.

10 Jun 2010: I again had to rerequest the withdrawel due to a "new payout system"
19 Jun 2010: first contact with CDS
25 Aug 2010: They again wanted me to send the faxback-form
02 Sep 2010: They again wanted me to send the faxback-form

All in all I already had 84 discussions with online chat and of course have not seen any cent from those fraudsters.

My experiences with CDS:
This is more or less a fake. They only can do something when there are problems regarding playthru requirements or sth like that. If an operator simply don't pay they can't do anything.
Victor/CDS 23 Aug:
"We cannot but continue to press the casino for the release of your funds. Unfortunately, this is the extent of our mandate. We hope that the continued and persistant effort will come to fruition eventually."
"In response to your question about contacting RTG directly, this is not a possibility. CDS is the third party dispute resolution system and the only channel available for these matters. As we have stated before, we continue to press for a resolution of these withdrawals. The Operator did indicate they are working out a way to get you the funds which should be ready very soon."
They cannot do anything against fraudulent casino operators. They only can frindly ask them to pay out but nothing more.

My opinion about RTG:
As RTG offers only this CDS to report fraud it seems that they also don't care about criminal licensees.
So, CDS are pretty worthless. Casinos are free to ignore the rulings of CDS, and in the full knowledge that NO sanction will be taken by RTG against them for doing so. There certainly IS something that could be done to give CDS some teeth, RTG could terminate the license of any operator that ignores a ruling handed out by CDS. Such termination to take effect a set number of days after the date of such a ruling so that everybody is clear where they stand.

It does seem that CDS were set up merely to make players think they had access to a meaningful dispute resolution process, but in fact they don't. CDS seem pretty limp in their response, mostly criticised for always taking the casinos' side. When they DO make a ruling in favour of a player, the operator can simply ignore it & carry on doing the same thing as before.

Being based in Costa Rica makes this pretty easy, since other than CDS, there is NO regulation whatsoever for online gambling services other than prompt payment of relevant fees & taxes, and meeting local employment quotas (must recruit Costa Ricans where available, rather than import workers).
 

rtuder

Dormant account
...and the story continues...

As I can be very stubborn and don't want to be victim of fraudsters the story continues :cool:

I tried to find out a physical adress from Curgam Ltd.
The adress at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
is definately wrong.
The gambling authorities in Malta don't know about any online casino based on this adress.
Online support from PlentyJackpots told me they themselves don't know an adress. (which is for sure a lie as they have to know for whom they are working)
But the real impertinence is that also this fake CDS told me that they don't have an adress from them and also RTG did not response to my request.

So RTG/CDS make it possible that they can act from an anonymous place and even in theory it is not possible to sue them or at least write a registered letter to them.
There is even no guarantee that they are licensed as writing 'licensed in Costa Rica' can be done by every beginner in HTML-programming and it's impossible to proof that when its impossible to find out which company is operating this site.

So I must repeat: Hands off from RTG! There may be some serious RTG-Operators but as long as RTG knowingly support criminals they should be avoided!
 

3mptyseat

Quit Gambling
PABnonaccred
Thats great logic... RTG makes a piece of software. I agree it would be nice if they would yank the software and license from any rogue op's, but the fact remains, they made a piece of software, PlentyofJackpots made the site, and you made the foolish move to deposit there.

Canon makes cameras, maybe they should be held responsible for kiddie porn.
And Chevron makes fertilizer, they should be held reponsible for every bomb that is made with fertilizer by this rationale.
And Ford makes cars, which kill people.
And Glock makes guns, they kill people too.
And plastics we use have tannins that cause cancer, here we come Du pont.

Or else you could look at it from another perspective. People make choices, all of them. That is a fact. All people make good choices, sometimes, and bad choices as well. The adults take responsibility for their choices, good or bad, and they take responsibility for their choice without regard for other influences that affected the outcome of the scenario that started when they made this choice. And the others (basically children) cry and look for culpability in every direction accept where they stand.

I am not suggesting that the PlentyofJackoffs Casino isn't at fault here; they are indeed. But the blame here lacks relevance because it's each and every persons responsibility to do their homework and research before they shove their coin into the virtual world. Had you researched the evil SOB's at PlentyofJackoffs for 5 minutes, a significant amount of doubt would have been raised in ur mind, and most likely, you would have found them to be questionable at best.

IMHO.
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
RTG *can be* responsible for what owners of these casinos do. To a degree.

It is a very long and drawn out subject that I would prefer for convienience sake to not get into.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
RTG *can be* responsible for what owners of these casinos do. To a degree.

It is a very long and drawn out subject that I would prefer for convienience sake to not get into.
They certainly CAN. By CHOOSING to provide the software to CRIMINALS, they become an accessory to the crime, and could be held jointly responsible in a CRIMINAL court. of course, RTG KNOW this, which is why they "did a runner" from Atlanta to Costa Rica, where they can be pretty certain to escape court action.

Unfortunately, disputes are often settled with violence in Costa Rica. One player went to the offices of Virtual group to complain in person about a denied payment (he was on holiday there at the time). Later, some "thugs" employed by Virtual followed him to a cafe and had a rather physical "discussion" with him, and told him NEVER to go back to their offices to complain again.

A dispute between two operators was once settled by one having the other SHOT DEAD!!!

One day, one of these clip joints will rip off the WRONG player, and will find themselves on the receiving end of a "hit". I don't believe this has happened yet, but there are other people beside themselves that settle disputes with violence.
 

funeral979

Senior Member
PABaccred
I have to agree with vinyl here. I don't think we have ever been given a definitive answer as to why RTG still lets rogue operators stay in business. I know the Meister has contacts at RTG....any possibility of getting some sort of an explanation?
 

rtuder

Dormant account
Thats great logic... RTG makes a piece of software. I agree it would be nice if they would yank the software and license from any rogue op's, but the fact remains, they made a piece of software, PlentyofJackpots made the site, and you made the foolish move to deposit there.

Canon makes cameras, maybe they should be held responsible for kiddie porn.
And Chevron makes fertilizer, they should be held reponsible for every bomb that is made with fertilizer by this rationale.
And Ford makes cars, which kill people.
And Glock makes guns, they kill people too.
And plastics we use have tannins that cause cancer, here we come Du pont.

Or else you could look at it from another perspective. People make choices, all of them. That is a fact. All people make good choices, sometimes, and bad choices as well. The adults take responsibility for their choices, good or bad, and they take responsibility for their choice without regard for other influences that affected the outcome of the scenario that started when they made this choice. And the others (basically children) cry and look for culpability in every direction accept where they stand.

I am not suggesting that the PlentyofJackoffs Casino isn't at fault here; they are indeed. But the blame here lacks relevance because it's each and every persons responsibility to do their homework and research before they shove their coin into the virtual world. Had you researched the evil SOB's at PlentyofJackoffs for 5 minutes, a significant amount of doubt would have been raised in ur mind, and most likely, you would have found them to be questionable at best.

IMHO.
RTG not only produces a bit a software. They operate this software on behalf of fraudulent organisations on RTG servers.
IMHO that makes the big difference!
For sure e.g. Picasa will close accounts when users uses them to distribute illegal content.

And you are totally true -- i did not do my homework. But if someone steals money from my flat because I forgot to lock the door while going to work I would also report this to the police and try to get my goods back :eek2:
 

rtuder

Dormant account
They certainly CAN. By CHOOSING to provide the software to CRIMINALS, they become an accessory to the crime, and could be held jointly responsible in a CRIMINAL court. of course, RTG KNOW this, which is why they "did a runner" from Atlanta to Costa Rica, where they can be pretty certain to escape court action.
At least RTG should publish where the licenses are physically based.
It's even impossible to hold Plentyjackpots responsible in a criminal court as it's not possible to find out where the criminal court is situated.

Definately they are not based in Malta as they communicate on their webpage.

Maybe they are based in Costa Rica, but maybe also in Sri Lanka, Lesotho, Kiribati, Panama, Palestine, Albania or somewhere else...?
 
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3mptyseat

Quit Gambling
PABnonaccred
And you are totally true -- i did not do my homework. But if someone steals money from my flat because I forgot to lock the door while going to work I would also report this to the police and try to get my goods back :eek2:

Good point. I am not giving them a pass, I know how you feel, I have been down the rogue road before. The thing is, in this over saturated marketplace full of thieves and scoundrels, I understand why RTG is trying to get the coin while they can, and again, I am not justifying their apathy, just empathizing with it. They must realize in a post-free-for-all America, with all of the superior software providers out there that are not serving this marketplace, and absent in other markets as well, RTG may see their fate on the horizon...

I am a pretty good example of why in a regulated gaming America, RTG would be losing dollars; last night I made three deposits to CWC's that would have gone to Wagerworks casinos if they were available. In fact, those 3 deposits would have gone to an MG clone like Rich Reels if CC processing was available for more than the current 4pm (PST) to 8pm (PST) daily.

So we can blame RTG all day long, and I would support the notion that in a perfect world, they should be held accountable for their apathy and be forced into a more proactive surveillance of their licensee's operations. But in the meantime, I assert that a large portion of the rogue marketplace is because of, and hence, is facilitated by the draconian laws and ridiculous seizures of funds made and enforced by the United States D o J. These payment processor closures and the bullying of legitimate casino by these 'babysitter laws' have forced the good guys out, and have left options that resemble a typical election in any district in the U.S.; you get ur choice between dog sh!t and horse sh!t, take ur pick. People who are going to gamble no matter what are left with this sparse selection. And this selection gets even smaller when you remove the places don't accept a clients form of payment, with fewer still that will pay them when they win...
 

rtuder

Dormant account
A big sensation occured...

Hi,

I finally got paid!

Anyway I still think that this guys are fraudsters.
I had 96 support-chat sessions, wrote about 30 e-mails to plentyjackpots, 22 comments to CDS, 4 e-mails to RTG, several e-mails to gambling authorities in Costa Rica and Malta, many posts in online casino forums and waited 717(!) days to receive a payment.
I don't know which communication line makes them finally pay but
for sure 99% of players play again until they lose all their money in this time or simple give it up.
So as long as casinos from curgam group are still online I will not play on any RTG casino and cannot recommend this to other potential players.
But I can definately recommend other victims to fight against them and to use all possible lines of communication to make them pay...

*cheers*

Roman
 

Jasminebed

Grumpy old gal
Wow, 717 days! I really admire your tenacity, and I'm glad it paid off in the end.

Was your final withdrawal $3000? Sounds like they did a fair amount of dicking you around prior to stonewalling you entirely.
 

rtuder

Dormant account
Wow, 717 days! I really admire your tenacity, and I'm glad it paid off in the end.

Was your final withdrawal $3000? Sounds like they did a fair amount of dicking you around prior to stonewalling you entirely.
Yes, I finally withdrawed $3000 and I'm also a bit proud about my tenacity as I'm quite sure that only very few players get payed :notworthy
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
717 day wait to get paid.
Lol, its good to see that I am not the only one suffering in the world.
 

Faina12

Dormant account
717 days to get paid

717 day wait to get paid.
Lol, its good to see that I am not the only one suffering in the world.
Good job on getting your money. I am now just getting started with one of the
RTG casinos paying me. I will hound them until I get my money. Even if it takes
717 days or more. I never give up.
On doing research and picking out good casinos. I have had casinos with the best
ratings not pay me. I have been doing online casinos since 1998. None of them are
in a hurry to pay you. If you reach the right person at most casinos you can get paid.
But, reaching the right person is one big pain. I am done with the online stuff now
because of the ain it cost. I will finish with getting my money from this one casino
then no more. Again I am very glad for you.
 
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