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please help? ENTROPAY steals over 10k from me

Discussion in 'Other Complaints' started by willpkr, Oct 4, 2009.

    Oct 4, 2009
  1. willpkr

    willpkr Dormant account PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    UK
    so I had been using entropay for quite a while, for various gambling sites, and i'm quite a "high roller" so had around 10K over a few cards in my entropay account.

    one day 2/3 weeks ago I get an email saying my account has been suspended for general verification and to send in copies of id, card, etc.. which I did.

    then since nothing happened, i entered into the following conversations via the helpdesk ( they have NO PHONE NUMBER)



    Posted 1 day ago (22:17, 1 Oct 09) by You
    {
    my account is still frozen. i thought you were a legitimate company, this is very upsetting.

    please why on earth is my account still frozen
    }

    Posted 1 day ago (22:57, 1 Oct 09) by Helpdesk Support
    {
    Dear xxxxxxx,

    We are writing to inform you that your EntroPay account (username: xxxxxx) has been suspended.

    We take security very seriously, and we suspend any account where there is or appears to be any activity of a suspicious nature. We are obliged to carry out such measures in the interest of our genuine customers.

    We are taking steps where possible, to refund any money held on your EntroPay VISA Card(s) or in your EntroPay account. Any such refunds will be to the credit/debit cards from where the funds were originally transferred.

    Please note that your EntroPay VISA Card(s) will now be declined by merchants and you will no longer be able to login on our website.

    If you require further detail, or believe that our decision is unjustified, please contact our Customer Support team using the help links on our website or by emailing This email is not visible to you.. And we will endeavour to help where we can.

    Yours sincerely,
    Karen
    EntroPay
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    }


    Posted 1 day ago (23:07, 1 Oct 09) by You
    {
    oh my. yes i do believe it is unjustified. however, if you are going to refund my balances, please send them to the bank account on file (LLOYDS xxxxx xxxxxxx)

    i cant understand why you made this decision, but please confirm money will be sent to my nominated bank account.

    alternatively, a cheque to my address on file would suffice.

    thanks for trying to help, although I am disappointed
    }


    Posted 22 hr ago (22:26, 2 Oct 09) by Helpdesk Support
    {
    Dear xxxxx,

    We are sorry but we are not in a position to refund you any money by cheque nor to any bank account.

    Kind Regards,
    Antoine.
    Entropay
    }

    Posted 22 min ago (20:16, 3 Oct 09) by You Helpdesk Request
    {
    .... so what, youre just going to steal my money?
    thats what all this is about huh? you werent satisfied with taking 2% of every transaction, just wanted to steal my money?

    if you are really regulated by fsa, you realise you are breaking your commitments right.

    Now I am having to consider my options, but lets be clear, I won't just let you steal my money without doing anything.
    }


    Posted 20 min ago (20:18, 3 Oct 09) by Helpdesk Support Helpdesk Request
    {
    Dear xxxxxx,

    We are writing to inform you that your EntroPay account (username: xxxxxxx) has been suspended.

    We take security very seriously, and we suspend any account where there is or appears to be any activity of a suspicious nature. We are obliged to carry out such measures in the interest of our genuine customers.

    We are taking steps where possible, to refund any money held on your EntroPay VISA Card(s) or in your EntroPay account. Any such refunds will be to the credit/debit cards from where the funds were originally transferred.

    Please note that your EntroPay VISA Card(s) will now be declined by merchants and you will no longer be able to login on our website.

    If you require further detail, or believe that our decision is unjustified, please contact our Customer Support team using the help links on our website or by emailing This email is not visible to you.. And we will endeavour to help where we can.

    Yours sincerely,
    Karen
    EntroPay
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    }

    Posted 16 min ago (20:22, 3 Oct 09) by You
    {
    once again, my money in my account is REFUNDS FROM MERCHANTS not from any card. YOU ARE THIEVES AND ARE IN BREACH OF YOUR REGULATIONS UNDER THE FSA.

    Now I am having to consider my options, but lets be clear, I won't just let you steal my money without doing anything.
    }

    now, the actual conversation is much longer and has been going on for weeks.
    its pretty clear they are only interested in stealing the money in my account, and so I came here to seek advice.

    if anyone has any clue what I should do (they claim they are regulated by FSA?) please i'd appreciate some help, as these criminals have stolen over 10k from me.

    thanks
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Oct 4, 2009
  3. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Welcome to the forum willpkr, it does appear that Entropay is in fact regulated by the FSA thru it's parent company "Ixaris Systems Ltd" which you can see them listed here on this list under "You must register/login in order to see the link."....

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    If I were you and it has already been a few weeks and like you say, you have not yet received your money, then I would get in touch with the FSA and see what they can do to help you. I take it that you have not done that yet?
    ____
    ____
     
  4. Oct 4, 2009
  5. prostudio

    prostudio Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    Artist
    Location:
    Albania
    Hello!

    God i cant belive!
    It can happen to us also...to everyone!
    I dont understand why this companies try to make us belive they are serious and then without any notice suspend an account!
    They dont make money with 2 % of transactions...is this not enough!
    Man you must directly contact with FSA and report everything!
    I hope you save the transactions and you can give them much details its posible!
    I really hope FSA will sort out this for you!
    Regards!
     
  6. Oct 4, 2009
  7. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    We had this before with Youteller (hyped as the next big thing in online payment processing in 2007, the website is down at the moment). A small e-money issuer certificate means that the company is exempt from FSA regulation as an e-money issuer, the total e-money issued limited to 10 million (in fact, 5 million in most cases), and individual accounts are limited to 150.
     
    3 people like this.
  8. Oct 4, 2009
  9. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Yea, I was afraid of that as I remember reading that earlier when I was perusing the site there. That's a damn shame too especially after peeps put their confidence in these online wallets to be straight shooters and then end up finding out that they may have no recourse in settlement. Thanks for clarifying that GrandMaster. It may even be a good idea for Bryan to add this as a warning in his new section "Payment Resources".
    ____
    ____
     
  10. Oct 4, 2009
  11. gambblex

    gambblex Expanding Wild

    Occupation:
    M.D.
    Location:
    UA
    Once I had to wait more than a month to approve my docs for one of e-wallets.

    What's the reason??

    And several times it took less than 48hrs to get an email that my account is fully valid from other companies.

    I got an impression that sometimes these companies just wanna (or find necessary) show you
    how REALLY SERIOUS they are.And bureaucracy in financial institutions is
    kinda MUST,right?

    I don't use Entropay but I remember that it is VISA virtual card,it's not just a "payment processor from own garage"

    I hope your situation will be resolved soon.

    These online payments..f@#$k them;) Sometimes players have to swallow something not too delicious:mad:
     
  12. Oct 4, 2009
  13. aodat2

    aodat2 Senior Member PABnononaccred PABnoaccred2 PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    I have a job
    Location:
    Malaysia
    This is not the 1st time Entropay did such a thing. This won't be the last time they are doing it. I really do not know what could be done to them to get them to stop doing it.

    I remember my mother's problem where she deposited money via EntroPay and soon after, they said that they wanted proof of the card and ID and etc. So she sent it out to them and they took about 3-4 weeks without a reply from them or any communications. After that, they said that the account would be suspended until further notice. At the same time, Bet365 also suspended my mother's account with $7k+ in it from the 1 deposit made through EntroPay.

    We tried to contact Bet365 and they threw the ball back to EntroPay but EntroPay kept saying that the account will be suspended indefinitely. So eventually my mother (not wanting to lose any money) made a dispute on that case and there goes the account with EntroPay and Bet365. Till this day, her winnings of more than $5k has been frozen by Bet365 and EntroPay is to be blamed for this.

    After reading your post, I really do feel sorry for you. I do really hope that you could get to do something to EntroPay about this. Taking them to court or something would be really nice. As for me, we'd have to do an International thingy if an action would be taken against them which would be EXTREMELY costly. But your case would be different as you are in UK.

    If there's anything I could help, I will definitely be there backing you up all the way. I totally feel that EntroPay is really TOO MUCH and that they should be brought to justice.

    All the best in your case against them.

    Ps. Don't waste your time with FSA. They are as useless as can be. I've tried contacting them previously and the reply I got was something along the lines of "There's nothing we could do. I am sorry. They are regulated by us but we DO NOT take care of them of whatever they do. Unless they break the regulation, whatever they do is up to them."
     
    3 people like this.
  14. Oct 5, 2009
  15. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Service Clerk
    Location:
    Cambridge ON
    This criminal activity.

    If this identity theft/fraud issue happens in Canada, I was told to do the following by law enforcement.

    1) Contact my regional police department.
    2) Contact a lawyer that handles this type of situation.
    3) Contact R.C.M.P.

    This company answers to a government body and if you haven't done anything illegal against them, then they are in the wrong and are playing off of being a "face less" corporation.No web cam contact, no face to face meetings, you're just a number to these people.

    Contact the police that reside in their country/region.
    Get a lawyer to suit them that knows international and internet laws.
    Contact this companies owner or manager and tell them that you are going to sue them.

    Contact the United States of America's FBI.If this company has ties to organize crime or terrorism group, they will be investigated.

    Contact a media outlet in this country to talk with this company.

    Visit this company in person and speak with their managers or ownership.

    Talk to Casino Meister, so if he sees these people at these online gaming conferences, to get answers from them and to know that alleged fraud doesn't pay.

    If this company answers to Visa in anyway, contact them, and find out who owns this company and then contact them for a lawsuit against them.

    Talk to your own government, members of parliament and get the help you need, or discuss this issue with your bank, so this won't affect your credit rating.

    Hope my help will help you on your way.

    Nobunaga
     
  16. Oct 5, 2009
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I would get in touch with the parent company, and with this amount at stake I would be prepared to follow-up with a lawyer's letter in the absence of an acceptable response.

    Here's the full detail on the parent company, which is in the United Kingdom (that's a plus!)

    Ixaris Systems Ltd

    5th Floor
    Lasenby House
    32 Kingly Street
    London W1B 5QQ
    UK
    Ph: 44 (0)870 366 6960
    Fax: 44 (0)870 166 0588

    Sales: This email is not visible to you.
    General info: This email is not visible to you.

    Ixaris Systems Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4072405. The above address is also the company's registered office address.

    Ixaris Systems Ltd is registered for VAT with VAT number 796 3553 80.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Oct 5, 2009
  19. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    As IXARIS who are behind Entropay are a UK limited company and registered by the FSA, you may be able to get some help here:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    It is definately worth signing up and asking for advice on CAG as well as here on CasinoMeister.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Oct 5, 2009
  21. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    You have fallen for it as well. As I wrote above, Ixaris is not on the FSA register, it merely has a small e-money issuer's certificate confirming its exemption from FSA regulation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Oct 5, 2009
  23. WagerWitch

    WagerWitch Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Yeah - like - really? Hmmm do I have to work?
    Location:
    Alaska
    This most assuredly does not bode well.

    As Entropay is a gambling pay correct?

    Why are they closing your account?
     
  24. Oct 6, 2009
  25. willpkr

    willpkr Dormant account PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    UK
    thanks for all replies
    having heard that entropay isn't properly regulated is very worrying. I feel i've seen the last of my money, unless perhaps I get a lawyer involved but I don't know if that could work at all.

    very angry and disappointed, at myself also.. for not properly questioning whether this was a stand up company before trusting it with so much
     
  26. Oct 6, 2009
  27. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I would definitely not give up so easily on this.

    There have been a number of useful avenues suggested here, and you have an address for the parent company - that should be sufficient to apply the right sort of pressure to secure a fair resolution.

    Quite apart from the fact that there is a fair amount of money involved, it's the principle of the thing, and your treatment as a bona fide client that would outrage me.
     
  28. Oct 6, 2009
  29. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Agree with what JetSet has posted. If it were me, not only would I contact the parent company direct, I would be in the process of finding a suitable lawyer to follow up said contact.

    It would definately be worth your while seeking legal advice, if only to ascertain how much such action would cost.

    Alternatively you could file a claim yourself:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    However I believe the amount owed to you is above that dealt with the small claims courts.

    Finally, you really do need to sign up to CAG and post your experience and problems with Entropay. The Consumer Action Group is a very powerful organisation which has many many knowledgable people posting there.

    The founder BankFodder is responsible for the current movement regarding claiming back unfair UK Bank Charges. This has cost the banking industry in the UK millions as a result.

    Whilst they might not have had dealings with Entropay, they would have helped and advised individuals in similar situations with regards getting back money owed.

    They will also be able to provide proper advice regarding the legal channels you will need to go down.

    If it was me owed 10k I would pull out all the stops to get it back.

    Good Luck!

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    2 people like this.
  30. Oct 6, 2009
  31. bakonlin

    bakonlin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    trader
    Location:
    indonesia
    Entropay

    Very scarry.I had used Entropay for more than 1 year,but always purchased the whole balance after uploading,I must be very carefull from now on.
     
  32. Oct 7, 2009
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It looks like a case of them NOT UNDERSTANDING GAMBLING. UNLIKE a regular pre-loadable account, or card, where money moves only in ONE direction, from customer, to account, to merchant - GAMBLING is different, money can move BOTH ways, and there can indeed be LARGE amounts involved, and from unlikely directions, such as $200 into xxx casino, followed by $10K coming out in REVERSE.

    I even had this BULLSHIT from Neteller, who ONLY process for GAMBLING sites and "peer to peer" transactions. They demanded to know the "nature of the transactions".

    I felt like saying "they are YOUR F*****G MERCHANTS, don't you KNOW what BUSINESS they are in!!!".

    My transactions were indeed VERY simple. INTO casinos, OUT of casinos, IN from MY OWN cards, and OUT to my VERIFIED bank account from my FOUR YEAR OLD PLUS VIP NETELLER ACCOUNT.

    Maybe STUPIDITY is the root cause of cases like this, these "small money issuers" know they are OUTSIDE regulation, and they are SUPPOSED to limit balances to a mere 150 (or, I believe, something like 1000 for a VERIFIED client). However, this would NEVER work for GAMBLERS, especially high rollers and poker players. They can more or less get away with theft, they can simply "play dead" and take an indefinite time to resolve an issue, and it is NOT simply a case of them having to fear the FSA, because only the first 150 is covered, and they are EVEN exempt from the Investor's compensation scheme, so that IF they went bust, there is NO "investor protection" for the first 50,000 (UK) - you lose almost EVERYTHING, just as if it were a CASINO licenced in some backwater going bust.

    There is ALWAYS this risk when using the convenience of an eWallet, and what is REALLY worrying is that they can he completely happy with you for ages, and SUDDENLY turn nasty and more or less "steal" your money, even such large amounts.

    They know full well that it is a case of the customer taking them to court, where they WOULD have to justify their actions in front of the judge, and would even have to pay costs and compensation ON TOP if found to be wrong.

    As has been shown in the UK Bank charge case, when a "faceless corporation" thinks the aggrieved customer is DEADLY SERIOUS to the extent that a court date is set following a solicitor's letter, they will nearly always investigate PROPERLY, and at a HIGHER LEVEL of competence in the organisation.

    It would be very BAD for a company like Entropay to be exposed in court has having WITHOUT PROPER CAUSE confiscating a large sum, and then compounding the issue with LIBEL (wrongly telling a merchant a customer is a fraud).

    The first case though, might not be so bad.

    They said

    Not ideal, but as soon as the money hits those cards, it falls WITHIN the FULL regulatory framework of the FSA and banking ombudsman.

    A debit card refund is more or less the same as a direct bank transfer, despite the mechanism being different, the refund will appear as a credit (merchant refund) on the underlying bank account against which the debit card is issued.

    A VISA credit card can accept a refund, and what may be on their minds is not just RECENT deposits, but going way back in time and refunding EVERY deposit that ever came from the card(s), with any surplus going back via the debit card.

    Play along, but firmly, and when the money has been returned, slap them with a DEFAMATION lawsuit (or convincing threat of one on the way), they have legally "defamed" your character by taking the action they have, in effect, treating you as though you are guilty of a criminal offence - they will have to demonstrate this in court, and "mere suspicion" based on "indicators" is not good enough if YOU can convince the judge that you cooperated fully, used your genuine details, and did nothing illegal (such as buying firearms or drugs with the money through their service, or using "dirty" money to fund the account).
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Nov 1, 2009
  35. Bencuri

    Bencuri Experienced Member PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Hungary
    willPKR! In which country do you live?
     

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