Playtech rigged slots?

thelawnet

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Location
UK
I was looking at the game Ocean Princess in free play mode, and observed that it does not play the same as in real mode.

Specifically, the blank stop between the Turtle and Wild symbols never occurs in free play, but occurs often in real mode.

Since this game is supposed to be skill-based paying close to 100% with optimum strategy, the effect of this is that the game will in fact pay well over 100% in free play mode, but less than 100% in real play mode.

Free play mode stops with Wilds:

Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank

Real play mode stops with Wilds:

Turtle Blank Wild
Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank

Ugga Bugga, which is the same game with different graphics shows the same:

Free Play

Wild Blank BlackMask
Blank Wild Blank

Real Play

Wild Blank BlackMask
Blank Wild Blank
Tribesman Blank Wild

I have verified this on Bet365 and Betfred in both instant and download casinos.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Can anyone suggest a fine accredited casino I can play these wonderful games at?

Preferably one where I might win a Jaguar if I get really lucky.
 

chuchu59

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Since many players cannot have access to playtech slots it would be great if someone posts screenshots illustrating what the lawnet has said.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Its the weekend, and Bryan is probably spending time with family.

You've made your point over and over today. We get it.

Maybe have some respect for your host and give him time to respond?

I'm sorry Nifty but my respect has gone. The re-adding (again) of Betfred to the accredited list with that 'explanation' is truly gob-smacking.

If Bryan or another moderator here wishes to ban me, I will take it on the chin and leave.
 

Nifty29

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Turn right, then right. then right again
I'm sorry Nifty but my respect has gone. The re-adding (again) of Betfred to the accredited list with that 'explanation' is truly gob-smacking.

If Bryan or another moderator here wishes to ban me, I will take it on the chin and leave.

If you have no respect for the man and his site, why do you need a mod or Bryan to ban you?

Just leave.

The whole "ban me if you like/dare" just smacks of grandstanding and wanting to become some kind of martyr.

I thought you were above that kind of thing. You're a good guy. You should know that making comments like you have today isn't going to solve the problem....its just going to create more.

A PM would have been a much better idea. As it stands, you've pretty much dissed the guy in public so your chance of a full hearing might be compromised.

One question....do we know precisely when the betfred entry was updated?
 

ChopleyIOM

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If you have no respect for the man and his site, why do you need a mod or Bryan to ban you?

Because I like a lot of the folks and discussion here. A forum is more than just its owner.

Just leave.

See above.

The whole "ban me if you like/dare" just smacks of grandstanding and wanting to become some kind of martyr.

I thought you were above that kind of thing. You're a good guy. You should know that making comments like you have today isn't going to solve the problem....its just going to create more.

It's not a case of grandstanding Nifty. I'm genuinely bothered by how this whole Betfred thing has panned out, I had a huge amount of respect for Bryan and the entire CM site, I really did see him as an honest broker between the players and the casinos. Our first, last, and only line of defence. I name-dropped this site time and time again on my YouTube channel, on other forums I post to, and face to face with my IRL friends - it was my default answer to any question about online casinos.

'Go to Casinomeister's site, follow the advice there, play only off his accredited list, you won't go wrong.'

The way this Betfred fiasco has panned out is upsetting to me, it really is. And to see the 'help file explanation' against Betfred's entry on the accredited list (which contradicts even what Betfred themselves said about the game) is just dreadful.

I gave Bryan the benefit of the doubt over the Jag promotion, despite Betfred's behaviour being farcical IMO. This time, I'm not able to do that.
 

KasinoKing

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I was looking at the game Ocean Princess in free play mode, and observed that it does not play the same as in real mode.

Specifically, the blank stop between the Turtle and Wild symbols never occurs in free play, but occurs often in real mode.

Since this game is supposed to be skill-based paying close to 100% with optimum strategy, the effect of this is that the game will in fact pay well over 100% in free play mode, but less than 100% in real play mode.

Free play mode stops with Wilds:

Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank

Real play mode stops with Wilds:

Turtle Blank Wild
Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank

Ugga Bugga, which is the same game with different graphics shows the same:

Free Play

Wild Blank BlackMask
Blank Wild Blank

Real Play

Wild Blank BlackMask
Blank Wild Blank
Tribesman Blank Wild

I have verified this on Bet365 and Betfred in both instant and download casinos.
Sorry, I just don't get what you are saying at all, as you seem to be stating "Blank" next to "Wild" each time - you haven't said "Turtle - Wild" once. :confused:
Can you explain it better, or give screenshots?

BTW, I believe these are "weighted" games and that each reel position spins independently.

KK
 

Casinomeister

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Location
Bierland
Hi ChopleyIOM,

As I mentioned with the closing of the Finsoft thread is that there is an ongoing investigation that will be shedding more light on the situation. There is much more than what you know. I would appreciate patience on your part and allow "due process" of a proper investigation be conducted. I stated that I was waiting for the investigation to be completed before moving on with this issue. You are putting the cart before the horse. You don't know what really has happened. You haven't been exchanging emails with the GRA as I have so just chill out.

You are grandstanding, beating your chest, and being egged on by people who don't have inside knowledge of what has happened here. I never said it was over, so I would caution you on "burning your bridges" so to speak and show a little patience and respect.
 

naththo

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Location
Adelaide, South Australia.
I am not sure whether those are rigged. I don't think it is legal for casino to make software rigged. It is illegal so casino cannot do that, there is a hefty fined for the penalty of it. Even some hacker try to rig it while playing at their casino so obviously someone is misusing their casino while being a casino customer user to play on their casino. There is fair chance I can be of certain its the hacker fault for tricking us/fool us. But I am not concluding it yet. So will wait for investigation to be completed and we can become known for what certain result is. Of course we do need some patience to wait for the investigation to be completed. At the moment. We just need a lot more evidence than just few. It takes a while. I do hope they will come up with a good conclusion at the mean time.
 

mrmark21

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Location
australia
I'm looking forward to the conclusion because I for one have honestly been scared off Playtech casinos for now.
 
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dunover

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I have avoided Playtech for a while - I have played at about 10 of them, and only made a gain on 2. On MG I have come out on top in about 50% of those I joined. Same with IGT ones. I find the games are too volatile to have any gameplay on if you are a low-roller. Plus, unless you play at the infamous Betfred/Betfair/PP and a couple of others, you are held over a barrel with 4-day pending w/d periods. I must say I have had far better fun playing in 'free mode' there than real money, but that could just be coincidence.
 

thelawnet

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Location
UK
Sorry, I just don't get what you are saying at all, as you seem to be stating "Blank" next to "Wild" each time - you haven't said "Turtle - Wild" once. :confused:
Can you explain it better, or give screenshots?

BTW, I believe these are "weighted" games and that each reel position spins independently.

KK

If you fire up the game you will understand better.

The reels basically consist of

symbol
blank
symbol
blank

etc.

You never get

symbol
symbol

With slots you always can see the stop immediately before and after the one you actually landed on. So if you land on wild, or turtle, or whatever, the stops immediately above and below will be blank. And if you land on blank, you can see the stops immediately above and below the blank.

Yes these will be weighted, but it doesn't make any difference - the point is that one of the blank stops (no pay) occurs in real play mode but doesn't occur in free play

You can confirm this easily by playing in free play mode; this:

rigged.jpg
position (the one on the second reel, second line)

does not occur (this screenshot is in real mode - this stop occurs frequently - within half-a-dozen spins - in real play, but never in free play)
 
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Richas

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Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Location
UK
It certainly looks like another play game not operating as the real game does and so is a breach of the GRA regulations. Not as bad as a false RTP or improper use of cards or a non random RNG as has been alleged but a breach.

I want to be patient, I will be patient, I must be patient.
I want to be patient, I will be patient, I must be patient.

The GRA, Finsoft and BetFred have the weekend to contend with so we could have expected no news yesterday or today. From a PR perspective surely they will all want to make public statements soon...wont they?

I hope CM is having a well deserved weekend himself and I'm sure we will hear as soon as is practicable....just a shame I have run out of popcorn. Even an ETA for an update - ie no news until at least noon Monday and then just maybe a CM holding statement ...would help my mantra

I want to be patient, I will be patient, I must be patient.
 

KasinoKing

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With slots you always can see the stop immediately before and after the one you actually landed on. So if you land on wild, or turtle, or whatever, the stops immediately above and below will be blank. And if you land on blank, you can see the stops immediately above and below the blank.
Yes, I understand all that.
Maybe I'm being thick (again!), but I still don't get what the issue is. Are you saying:
a) The reel strips are different between real and fun play mode?
or
b) The reel strips are the same in real and fun play mode, but that a certain symbol never lands on a win line?

e.g. from your first post:
Free play mode stops with Wilds:

Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank
So the layout is:
Blank
Wild
Blank
Red Star


Real play mode stops with Wilds:

Turtle Blank Wild
Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank
Turtle
Blank
Wild
Blank
Red Star


So, apart from you mentioning the turtle in the real-play example, what is different? :confused:

KK
 

Nifty29

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Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I never saw these slots as skill based. I figured they were weighted reels that lined up according to your hold choices I.e. it made no real difference what you hold, like AWPs, where they'll compensate for a bad decision in the next few spins....which is why I avoid them and always have.

I'd be interested to learn otherwise.

Has anyone run some test sessions to see if the payouts really are different?

Reel design and mechanics is not my strong point, so I'm a little confused like KK. I'm happy to defer to others with more expertise.
 

clees42

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Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Location
oulu
So, apart from you mentioning the turtle in the real-play example, what is different?

KK

i understood what he meant by this:

Free play mode stops with Wilds:

Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank

Real play mode stops with Wilds:

Turtle Blank Wild
Wild Blank RedStar
Blank Wild Blank

He is saying that you see wilds in 2 patterns in free play and 3 patterns in real play.

in free play:
1. upper half wild, lower half redstar (miss)
2. wild in the middle (hit)

in real play:
1. upper half turtle, lower half wild (miss)
2. upper half wild, lower half redstar (miss)
3. wild in the middle (hit)

If what he says is true it could mean that the real play has added reel strips for near misses. This would imply lower rtp in real play than free play.
 

243 lines=daft

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Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Location
Scotland
Hi. I do play these skill based slots on Playtech so I'm interested in thelawnet's point.
From trialling tonight, I thought I'd add these to add a further bit of illustration.

The left hand shot is REAL MONEY mode, the centre and right shots are FUN MONEY mode.

The blank between turtle and wild in the left hand shot (2nd reel from the bottom) is the occurence that does happen constantly in real play.

The turtles and wilds that appear on the right shot seem to appear more commonly 'on line' in demo mode.
The instance in the left hand shot does NOT happen in fun money mode afaics! (This being trialled this evening on the gala casino)

Note also the centre image. You'll see that the blank between Wild and red star happens very commonly in fun money mode just as it does in real mode.

I haven't yet checked whether this is also the case on Tropic reels which is in gameplay identical to oceans princess.

ss3.jpg ss4.jpg ss5.jpg

Thanks to Jufo for pointing out I hadn't inserted images properly. (I only joined recently :) )
 
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