Play'n Go and Pragmatic lowered RTP

Mosse

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Location
finnlandia
For example @Videoslots has started to use lowered RTP- on slots from PnG. All done in full silence.

Same thing in CO-gaming and Playcherry casinos. Theres probably other sites too so be careful with these providers!

I mean how greedy can they be??? Doing this in full silence is awful cheating IMO.

So I think players should avoid sites as Videoslots doing this!!!

Any comments @Team.Videoslots on this???
 

Reelsoffun

When it comes to gambling, timing is everything.
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Location
UK
For example @Videoslots has started to use lowered RTP- on slots from PnG. All done in full silence.

Same thing in CO-gaming and Playcherry casinos. Theres probably other sites too so be careful with these providers!

I mean how greedy can they be??? Doing this in full silence is awful cheating IMO.

So I think players should avoid sites as Videoslots doing this!!!

Any comments @Team.Videoslots on this???


OLD news and it wasn't in silence they announced the lower RTPs in like February and has been discussed many times since, quite a few casinos and providers are starting to lower RTPs I think its something were going to see much more of across the board in 2020 TBH
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
This has been covered many times on here, you might want to read some of the previous stuff about it, as it's not ust Play n Go they have lowered it on.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
OLD news and it wasn't in silence they announced the lower RTPs in like February and has been discussed many times since, quite a few casinos and providers are starting to lower RTPs I think its something were going to see much more of across the board in 2020 TBH

Well, it was in silence, in fact they deliberately hid it, which I think was the main bone of contention for most people, rather than them actually lowering it!
 

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
That said, Pragmatic is even unplayable at their highest RTP settings...
It is a miracle if you hit a 100x on any of their slots, that's why a 50x is being celebrated with a mega win...

I have played well over 40k spins on their social tournaments now and have yet to hit anything over 150x...
The mathematics on their slots make no sense at all.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
OLD news and it wasn't in silence they announced the lower RTPs in like February and has been discussed many times since, quite a few casinos and providers are starting to lower RTPs I think its something were going to see much more of across the board in 2020 TBH

Maybe for UK but for ROW it wasn't even mentioned in the news section. So to find out you had to read forums like CM or notice it yourself, if you asked CS if some of the games (like Rise of Olympus) had changed they said no.
 
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Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
That said, Pragmatic is even unplayable at their highest RTP settings...
It is a miracle if you hit a 100x on any of their slots, that's why a 50x is being celebrated with a mega win...

I have played well over 40k spins on their social tournaments now and have yet to hit anything over 150x...
The mathematics on their slots make no sense at all.

Yeah, I've never fathomed how Pragmatic slots hit their trtp :confused:
 

andym

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Location
germany
Videoslots lowered their rtp so that they can finance their (tiny, shitty) cashbacksystem and wheel. That’s what they told me. You should stop playing there. And in all other creepy casinos without any fair loyalty program.
 

DreamRJ

Out of this world!
MM
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Location
RJVille UK
Videoslots lowered their rtp so that they can finance their (tiny, shitty) cashbacksystem and wheel. That’s what they told me. You should stop playing there. And in all other creepy casinos without any fair loyalty program.

You complain about VS Wheel of jackpots. Try Rizk loyalty program and their crappy wheel spins on level ups?!

Rizk is the worst casino in terms of loyalty........ I get nothing from those wheel spins, the best prize I ever had from all the wheel spins is 3 super spins which was a value of £3 - £1 each spin. I am level 263 as well. So that is with 263 wheel spins plus the extra wheel spins you get as well. That is a lot of chances to actually win a jackpot or a cash chip? but nope. Never ever. Most of the time I get 5 or 10 spins on 10p slots from the wheel spins, all other times it is either a double speed or a 10% cashback for 60mins reward, where you then have to play and deposit even more to earn a few extra pounds from if your net loss is higher than your net winnings within that 60 mins.

No thanks.

Leovegas also had none existent loyalty too. Given that they stopped sending me promotional emails for over a year. They then recently changed their withdraw terms and they now no longer push withdraws and do them fast, they now delay delay delay. So I closed my leovegas account a few months ago for this very reason. Rizk will follow suit soon too. I will actually tag @Sebastian - Rizk - so that he can take a loot at my feedback for their none existent loyalty system. I deposit and play a lot at rizk now too since I closed my leovegas account. Rizk is at the moment the second casino after VS that gets my deposits and money. But why should I even bother?

Lowered RTP is not even a concern to me. Yes bottom line means we get less spins, but at the end of the day, I love gambling so I will still gamble on slots even if they had RTP's of 86%. I remember local arcade machines had RTP's of around 83% when I used to play in those. So it is nothing shocking at least most slots still have RTP's above 92% which is not the end of the world.....
 

DreamRJ

Out of this world!
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Location
RJVille UK
@andym - VS is still far better in terms of loyalty to the other 2 I mentioned in my above ^^ post. VS will be my number 1 casino unless they make even more cutbacks and further reduce the wheel payouts or stop the weekend booster or stop doing the free roll battles.

To be fair, I think you will struggle to find any casino now that actually has a good loyalty system anyway nowadays. Mainly due to the fact that UKGC and other Authorities are making new rules that make it more expensive for casinos to make profit from. So the bottom line is it is the players that then suffer as a result. The loyalty systems they had get revoked and or changed. So they can still make some profit. Otherwise they would go bust. Licenses to operate are not cheap. if 1 casino only has 1000 active customers and those customers only deposit around 100K between them a week.

They would not make much profit after all deductions and winnings paid out and staff paychecks, license fees, operational costs, tax etc etc, the list goes on......... Casinos still need to make profit. If a casino no longer can make a profit they will cease operating or pull out of certain countries. So that then means they no longer have to pay the license fees to operate in that country.
 

thebeast777

Full Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Location
British isles
Land based casinos have followed the route of lower RTPs and introduced games with low volatility. It’s a recipe for disaster. Day by day slots are becoming more like scratchcards ( lots of small wins with small hope of hitting it big ). It’s a way to lose yet more customers. Las Vegas killed off virtually all their high roller play by reducing RTPs to take account of a reduction in foot fall. This of course simply leads to yet a further reduction in footfall !
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
You complain about VS Wheel of jackpots. Try Rizk loyalty program and their crappy wheel spins on level ups?!

Rizk is the worst casino in terms of loyalty........ I get nothing from those wheel spins, the best prize I ever had from all the wheel spins is 3 super spins which was a value of £3 - £1 each spin. I am level 263 as well. So that is with 263 wheel spins plus the extra wheel spins you get as well. That is a lot of chances to actually win a jackpot or a cash chip? but nope. Never ever. Most of the time I get 5 or 10 spins on 10p slots from the wheel spins, all other times it is either a double speed or a 10% cashback for 60mins reward, where you then have to play and deposit even more to earn a few extra pounds from if your net loss is higher than your net winnings within that 60 mins.

No thanks.

Leovegas also had none existent loyalty too. Given that they stopped sending me promotional emails for over a year. They then recently changed their withdraw terms and they now no longer push withdraws and do them fast, they now delay delay delay. So I closed my leovegas account a few months ago for this very reason. Rizk will follow suit soon too. I will actually tag @Sebastian - Rizk - so that he can take a loot at my feedback for their none existent loyalty system. I deposit and play a lot at rizk now too since I closed my leovegas account. Rizk is at the moment the second casino after VS that gets my deposits and money. But why should I even bother?

Lowered RTP is not even a concern to me. Yes bottom line means we get less spins, but at the end of the day, I love gambling so I will still gamble on slots even if they had RTP's of 86%. I remember local arcade machines had RTP's of around 83% when I used to play in those. So it is nothing shocking at least most slots still have RTP's above 92% which is not the end of the world.....

From memory it takes a lot longer to move up levels on Videoslots though doesn't it? What sort of rewards have you been getting from the Videoslots wheels? It would take a lot to make up for the lower RTP you get over Rizk.

Personally I think most loyalty offers are fairly poor now, but I wouldn't class VS or Rizk as being at the top of those.
 

DreamRJ

Out of this world!
MM
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Location
RJVille UK
Well the difference being is with the blue wheels you get them pretty much constantly at VS for continued playtime on slots when you play. you can sometimes get around 10 to 20 blue wheel spins in 1 sessions when you play slots you never played before and unlock the achievements for the wheel spins.

So if your lucky you can now get £5, £3, £1, or the 5,10,,30 spins from that wheel spin multiple times. Or if unlucky you may just keep getting the battle tickets instead. Compare that to rizk where a level up can take a lot of spins and you can sometimes be lucky to get 1 or 2 level ups in 1 session, long or short. So VS is far superior. No brainer really is it............

Plus when you do level up every 5 levels at VS you are guaranteed at least a certain amount of cash, for me currently at level 73, I get silver wheel spins, so I get a minimum of £100. Which is guaranteed. Rizk. Nothing is guaranteed, regardless. Even those super wheel spins or those mega wheel spins still give rubbish rewards, always 3 super spins 99.99999% of the time......... No brainer..........
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
midlands
Biggest impact for me is the reductions on Red Tiger slots, hard to trigger features at the best of times
now almost impossible on the reduced RTP,s
On top of that if the games are run with jackpot another 1% is taken off resulting in games running at 92%
or less making them almost unplayable.
Think 2020 is going to be a bit grim for players,more regulations, less promotions and crappy RTP,s
becoming the norm.
 

Bloatgoat

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Somewhere
Land based casinos have followed the route of lower RTPs and introduced games with low volatility. It’s a recipe for disaster. Day by day slots are becoming more like scratchcards ( lots of small wins with small hope of hitting it big ). It’s a way to lose yet more customers. Las Vegas killed off virtually all their high roller play by reducing RTPs to take account of a reduction in foot fall. This of course simply leads to yet a further reduction in footfall !

Scratchcards is usually a 1 to 5 chance of having a winning ticket. But again make the count yourself in how many cards are going around, minus the non-paying ones, and you'll see that the odds are so miserable, you gotta be a fool to still buy scratch tickets.

2020 is going to be a dark year. My favorite casino is lately skimping out on certain features in games. I.e the gamble feature in book of ra. The max bet in pragmatic games lowered to 4 euro instead of up to 50 euro. Now lil devil removed and dead or alive as well. They had 2 or 3 games as well that i used to play lots but they got removed in the past too. Final countdown stopped throwing the random 256x symbol in the base game as well. And i'm talking about 1200+ spins or so that it did not drop. The bonus feature is like half of what it was. Geezus christ.

Something is happening and the casino keeps putting these changes onto the providers. Little do WE know that a casino can choose a version that suits them the best.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I would be concerned about a casinos funding if it was doing what you state. They are all measures to limit possible liabilities. Which casino is it?
 

DeidreB

Experienced Member
PABnononaccred3
PABinit
Joined
Jul 16, 2019
Location
East ST Paul, Manitoba, Canada
For example @Videoslots has started to use lowered RTP- on slots from PnG. All done in full silence.

Same thing in CO-gaming and Playcherry casinos. Theres probably other sites too so be careful with these providers!

I mean how greedy can they be??? Doing this in full silence is awful cheating IMO.

So I think players should avoid sites as Videoslots doing this!!!

Any comments @Team.Videoslots on this???
I experienced it big time, not ethical in my opinion. Or good for the player!
 

Bloatgoat

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Somewhere
I would be concerned about a casinos funding if it was doing what you state. They are all measures to limit possible liabilities. Which casino is it?

Well, after i raised my questions over email, they seem to take it seriously, and reverted some of the games, and projected RTP. Some games that where completely dead seem to be much more alive now.

I hope it stays that way; there's no need to start robbing gamblers even more.

I've kind of settled down on the idea as well that if i win, and even if it's 300, just hit withdrawl, because we all know there's a 9 out of 10 times chance you will lose the 300 on playing.

So now my career will consist out of hopping from one to another casino having the mindset of double or nothing, with a guaranteed withdrawl the moment i win.

If casino's change, we should change as well as players, dont you think?
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Has anyone seen this type of thing in Play N Go help files before? I've only seen it on one casino

1577823117724.png 1577823117724.png


The RTP is 94.51%.

Bets are selected using the bet buttons in the bottom part of the game. Click the plus and minus buttons to change the bet one step at a time. To start the round, click START. When the symbols land, the symbols displayed determine your prize according to the paytable.

  • Maximum Bet: 40.00 GBP
  • Maximum Win: 182812.00 GBP
  • Maximum Hourly Bet: 72000.00 GBP
  • Maximum Hourly Loss*: 3952.80 GBP
  • The hit rate of the base game, when playing on maximum paylines: 1.84 rounds.
* Maximum Hourly Loss is an average value based on the game’s RTP level.
 

goatwack

I’ll have the cleavage, I mean the special
CAG
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
One'd be quite peeved having lost £3952 and eighty pence in an hour on Reactoonz, to be fair
 
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