Playfair Casino

zebedy

No!!!! Im Spartacus
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Location
Up a Tree
they also dont allow players from the uk to redeem the free chip, even though it says nothing on there site about this,it seems like a big con to me :rolleyes:
 

jackieonweb

Banned User - fraudster - multiple casino and foru
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Location
Poole
I've been sent an email from these guys asking me to sign up.
Are they part of another group? Do they pay?
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I've been sent an email from these guys asking me to sign up.
Are they part of another group? Do they pay?
They are a sister casino to Casino33.
Both casinos are brand new and still suffering "Start-up teething" IMHO.
There is a rep here on the form called "CasinoJack" who says they do pay (well, he would, wouldn't he! :rolleyes:)

See the last dozen or so posts in this thread:-
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/32720-casino-33-a.html

Until they are properly established, why don't you just stick to existing accredited casinos - why take the risk?

Whatever you do... Good Luck! :thumbsup:
KK
 

jackieonweb

Banned User - fraudster - multiple casino and foru
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Location
Poole
Well my son thought he'd give the place a go and took their 777% slot bonus.
He had around 800 spins on their Cleopatra and Paydirt! slots and didn't get one bonus round. They normally come around every 100 spins don't they? If so that's about 3000 to 1.
Can they change the house edge on these slots?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Well my son thought he'd give the place a go and took their 777% slot bonus.
He had around 800 spins on their Cleopatra and Paydirt! slots and didn't get one bonus round. They normally come around every 100 spins don't they? If so that's about 3000 to 1.
Can they change the house edge on these slots?

Yes. So far as we can tell RTG offer 3 settings, approx values 93%, 95%, 97%

The differences may look insignificant, but convert this into playing experience.

If you played a total of 1000 spins at $1 for example, the lower setting would return (on average) $930. The middle setting would return $950, $20 more. Taking WR into consideration, for example, you might be asked to wager a deposit+bonus 20x. By lowering the RTP to 93%, the casino takes an extra $20 per $1000 played through, making it far harder to meet WR. This allows RTG casinos to pretend to be offering the SAME deal as "everybody else", or even better, but by using the lowest RTP setting the deal can be far WORSE than "everybody else".

It seems that RTG casinos are asking for some (maybe all) slots to be changed to a different RTP setting. A recent thread where a "technical glitch" was said to be producing two pears together on the RTG game FRuit Frenzy was later confirmed by a very good source to be HUMAN error, but only appearing because it featured in one of the ALTERNATE RTP versions of the game, NOT the standard 95% one that players assume they are being offered.

I very much doubt they have RAISED it to 97% given the current "credit crunch" climate, and following recession. I feel it reasonable to assume that seeing this double pear variant is an indication that the RTG casino concerned has switched the slots down to 93%, which would make them able to offer bonuses that APPEAR to be much better than they are.

RTP is varied by changing a few symbols on some or all of the reels. If a symbol that triggers a bonus round is removed, as might be the case where a "loose" variant featured two of them on a reel, the number of bonus rounds would decrease very noticeably. EXTENDING the length of a reel with only one bonus triggering symbol would have the same effect, more spins on average between bonus rounds. Padding would most likely be with low paying symbols, but craftier ways to pad out reels might be to ensure, for example, that reels 1 and 3 had loads of some kinds of symbols, and reel 2 had hardly any, but loads of symbols that hardly appear on reel 1 - this trick can make a slot APPEAR low variance, but actually be HIGH variance. The MGS slot Cashapillar uses this kind of reelstrip structure, so despite it having 100 winlines, you seem to get so many more "empty" spins than gut feeling tells you is right.

The fact that this casino says UK players can't have the free chip, BUT DOESN'T PUBLISH THIS IN THE TERMS makes this one to be wary of, because of what ELSE they might claim "applies to UK players" when they try to cash out from what seems a high bonus compared to the offerings from other software branded casinos.
 

jackieonweb

Banned User - fraudster - multiple casino and foru
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Location
Poole
Thanks a lot for the info. I wasn't aware the HE could be changed between the different casinos.
It looks likely these guys are on the lowest payout setting then, unless my son just got some bad variance.
Thanks
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks a lot for the info. I wasn't aware the HE could be changed between the different casinos.
It looks likely these guys are on the lowest payout setting then, unless my son just got some bad variance.
Thanks
If there is WR to go, put Fruit Frenzy on, and look closely at reel 2. It has 40 stops, and the design cock-up that lets players see (and pretty obviously) that it is an alternate RTP version, is TWO pears, one above the other. These are at stops 40 and 1. NOT seeing them is not conclusive until quite a few spins have been played, but seeing them even ONCE is pretty conclusive.

If your son manages to beat the WR, and have money to withdraw, he should expect (if this has not already happened) to send copies of identity documents to the casino before they pay. This is standard, and unless the casino is a known rogue, nothing sinister.

A standard request would be

1) Driving License or Passport
2) Utility bill, bank statement (or anything official that proves he lives where he said he does when registering).
3) Declaration form for any credit cards used

A "playing games" request would be any, or all of:-

1) A picture of him holding his Passport or Driving License
2) A "notarised" copy of the above documents
3) Withdrawal stuck "pending" and sudden and unexplainable loss of communication.

If he is old enough to gamble, but does not drive, and does not have a passport, he can face SERIOUS problems in getting paid from a large number of online casinos, and may need help (unless he is "up to something", or received bad advice on how to register & play)
 

casinojack

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
Costa Rica
Yes. So far as we can tell RTG offer 3 settings, approx values 93%, 95%, 97%

The differences may look insignificant, but convert this into playing experience.

If you played a total of 1000 spins at $1 for example, the lower setting would return (on average) $930. The middle setting would return $950, $20 more. Taking WR into consideration, for example, you might be asked to wager a deposit+bonus 20x. By lowering the RTP to 93%, the casino takes an extra $20 per $1000 played through, making it far harder to meet WR. This allows RTG casinos to pretend to be offering the SAME deal as "everybody else", or even better, but by using the lowest RTP setting the deal can be far WORSE than "everybody else".

It seems that RTG casinos are asking for some (maybe all) slots to be changed to a different RTP setting. A recent thread where a "technical glitch" was said to be producing two pears together on the RTG game FRuit Frenzy was later confirmed by a very good source to be HUMAN error, but only appearing because it featured in one of the ALTERNATE RTP versions of the game, NOT the standard 95% one that players assume they are being offered.

I very much doubt they have RAISED it to 97% given the current "credit crunch" climate, and following recession. I feel it reasonable to assume that seeing this double pear variant is an indication that the RTG casino concerned has switched the slots down to 93%, which would make them able to offer bonuses that APPEAR to be much better than they are.

RTP is varied by changing a few symbols on some or all of the reels. If a symbol that triggers a bonus round is removed, as might be the case where a "loose" variant featured two of them on a reel, the number of bonus rounds would decrease very noticeably. EXTENDING the length of a reel with only one bonus triggering symbol would have the same effect, more spins on average between bonus rounds. Padding would most likely be with low paying symbols, but craftier ways to pad out reels might be to ensure, for example, that reels 1 and 3 had loads of some kinds of symbols, and reel 2 had hardly any, but loads of symbols that hardly appear on reel 1 - this trick can make a slot APPEAR low variance, but actually be HIGH variance. The MGS slot Cashapillar uses this kind of reelstrip structure, so despite it having 100 winlines, you seem to get so many more "empty" spins than gut feeling tells you is right.

The fact that this casino says UK players can't have the free chip, BUT DOESN'T PUBLISH THIS IN THE TERMS makes this one to be wary of, because of what ELSE they might claim "applies to UK players" when they try to cash out from what seems a high bonus compared to the offerings from other software branded casinos.

Playfair and casino33 have merged operations and these crazy things are being resolved as we speak. We are in agreement with the players here, and we will be updating the site. We love our players from anywhere in the world......

EDIT: i just Looked and fruit Frenzy is set to 97.5%....
 
Last edited:

casinojack

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
Costa Rica
Thanks a lot for the info. I wasn't aware the HE could be changed between the different casinos.
It looks likely these guys are on the lowest payout setting then, unless my son just got some bad variance.
Thanks
Going to say bad variance as most of our slots are set at the 97% payouts. If you PM me his LoginId i would be more then happy to review...
 

casinojack

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
Costa Rica
If there is WR to go, put Fruit Frenzy on, and look closely at reel 2. It has 40 stops, and the design cock-up that lets players see (and pretty obviously) that it is an alternate RTP version, is TWO pears, one above the other. These are at stops 40 and 1. NOT seeing them is not conclusive until quite a few spins have been played, but seeing them even ONCE is pretty conclusive.

If your son manages to beat the WR, and have money to withdraw, he should expect (if this has not already happened) to send copies of identity documents to the casino before they pay. This is standard, and unless the casino is a known rogue, nothing sinister.

A standard request would be

1) Driving License or Passport
2) Utility bill, bank statement (or anything official that proves he lives where he said he does when registering).
3) Declaration form for any credit cards used

A "playing games" request would be any, or all of:-

1) A picture of him holding his Passport or Driving License
2) A "notarised" copy of the above documents
3) Withdrawal stuck "pending" and sudden and unexplainable loss of communication.

If he is old enough to gamble, but does not drive, and does not have a passport, he can face SERIOUS problems in getting paid from a large number of online casinos, and may need help (unless he is "up to something", or received bad advice on how to register & play)

Good stuff, BUT please note NON USA players may indeed have to go through the "1) A picture of him holding his Passport or Driving License" hoop. Is not normal, but sometimes happens...
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Good stuff, BUT please note NON USA players may indeed have to go through the "1) A picture of him holding his Passport or Driving License" hoop. Is not normal, but sometimes happens...
WHY?

It is insulting to us that there is NEVER, it seems, a case that a US player will be doubted, yet you will, even if rarely, doubt a NON US player.

US players are NOT all "innocent", and are just as likely to attempt player fraud as NON US players.

If anything, you stand to suffer MORE if a US player decides to turn nasty. If you read a few threads, you will see that US banks will AUTOMATICALLY issue a "chargeback" for ANY transfers they later find out were in breach of UIGEA. A fraudulent US player could easily exploit this.

On the other hand, you appear to be a "rep" for these casinos, yet this does NOT appear in your user profile. If you are going to speak in an official capacity, you should register as a casino rep.

If your slots are set at 97%, then this WILL attract players who suspect that other RTG casinos have gone the other way to 93%.

There are however, members that WILL eventually catch a lie when it comes to RTP settings, and you should ensure that this was an AUTHORISED statement to make, and is CURRENTLY implemented.

Variance is understood by most experienced players, which is why you CANNOT make a statement about overall RTP from a small sample of spins, a common mistake made in the heat of the moment when accusing a slot game of being "rigged".

RTP settings at RTG have become a warm topic (should be HOT!) since the revelation of the fact that some RTG casinos have a version of FRuit Frenzy that shows 2 pears together on reel 2.
If your 97% Fruit Frenzy does NOT show 2 pears, and we can verify it is 97%, we can then know for certain that the double pear variant IS 93% (although I have suspected this all along).
 

casinojack

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
Costa Rica
WHY?

It is insulting to us that there is NEVER, it seems, a case that a US player will be doubted, yet you will, even if rarely, doubt a NON US player.

US players are NOT all "innocent", and are just as likely to attempt player fraud as NON US players.

If anything, you stand to suffer MORE if a US player decides to turn nasty. If you read a few threads, you will see that US banks will AUTOMATICALLY issue a "chargeback" for ANY transfers they later find out were in breach of UIGEA. A fraudulent US player could easily exploit this.

On the other hand, you appear to be a "rep" for these casinos, yet this does NOT appear in your user profile. If you are going to speak in an official capacity, you should register as a casino rep.

If your slots are set at 97%, then this WILL attract players who suspect that other RTG casinos have gone the other way to 93%.

There are however, members that WILL eventually catch a lie when it comes to RTP settings, and you should ensure that this was an AUTHORISED statement to make, and is CURRENTLY implemented.

Variance is understood by most experienced players, which is why you CANNOT make a statement about overall RTP from a small sample of spins, a common mistake made in the heat of the moment when accusing a slot game of being "rigged".

RTP settings at RTG have become a warm topic (should be HOT!) since the revelation of the fact that some RTG casinos have a version of FRuit Frenzy that shows 2 pears together on reel 2.
If your 97% Fruit Frenzy does NOT show 2 pears, and we can verify it is 97%, we can then know for certain that the double pear variant IS 93% (although I have suspected this all along).

There are some countries where, sadly fraud is very very high. This is combined with a few factors, not country only, but it is a big weight in the equation.

My user profile does need to be updated, and will be later....I am the official spokesperson for casino33 and playfaircasino

I have not played with the slot in question, as far as examining it in this detail, but I can assure the setting I state is is correct. It is 97.5%

As for using the term variance, I was simply responding to the poster, and not trying to open a can of worms...Your point is good, and i should have been more clear

For the record, I had been pushing what our slot payouts would be across the board, but have been some issues in doing this. I have had my hand slapped a couple of time to show transparency, and to stand up to audits on this, but RTG (rightly so) does not want screens or videos or any other way for me to broadcast current settings in the backend. The only way would be live, in the flesh.

I am open to suggestions / ideas etc
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
There are some countries where, sadly fraud is very very high. This is combined with a few factors, not country only, but it is a big weight in the equation.

My user profile does need to be updated, and will be later....I am the official spokesperson for casino33 and playfaircasino

I have not played with the slot in question, as far as examining it in this detail, but I can assure the setting I state is is correct. It is 97.5%

As for using the term variance, I was simply responding to the poster, and not trying to open a can of worms...Your point is good, and i should have been more clear

For the record, I had been pushing what our slot payouts would be across the board, but have been some issues in doing this. I have had my hand slapped a couple of time to show transparency, and to stand up to audits on this, but RTG (rightly so) does not want screens or videos or any other way for me to broadcast current settings in the backend. The only way would be live, in the flesh.

I am open to suggestions / ideas etc
I doubt ANY software provider or operator would want this. They are afraid of what "hackers" might do if they could see parts of the back-end. Even if you did show videos or screenshots, this could have been set up for show. The only way to prove the slots are 97.5% IS an independent audit of RTP over an extended period of time (to smooth variance related peaks and troughs).

Microgaming had a long run of independent audits done by PWC, and these pointed to 95% being the average setting for their slots games.

Given that your slots are on 97.5%, there should be threads about how your casinos play "like it used to be", with players applauding the return to decent playing time on their deposits.

As for your issue about fraud being higher in some places than others, this is true, but you CANNOT make a statement that more or less implies there is NEVER fraud in a particular country, as this not only offends other nationalities, but provides a chink in your armour, giving fraudsters the idea to try it from a country that is NEVER checked for fraud attempts.


The other interesting issue often discussed is WHY some countries have to wager MUCH MORE to release a bonus than others. It can have NOTHING to do with fraud, as the RTP and variance of a game is the same for all players, and IF it were about fraud, the WR on a bonus is irrelevant (they would not get paid whether the WR was 20x or 200x).
Players from countries who are fed this line of BS that they must wager more than anyone else "because of higher fraud risks" know this is a load of rubbish, and if they have any sense, just don't play the predatory and often impossible WR tucked away in the terms.
This is why I don't have ONE SINGLE Playtech casino currently installed on my PC, and it will remain this way until operators come to terms with the fact that my country's citizens are no better at playing slots than any one elses (unless these slots are NOT RANDOM of course).
 

casinojack

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
Costa Rica
We are still new, but some forums have seen this...Give us time, may take 6 - 12 months for this to come to light.

Also being new, we do not have ALL slots at 97%, just some....Fruit Frenzy is one of those though...and none are set to the lowest...
 

deucebag

Full Member
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Location
cyberspace
Yes. So far as we can tell RTG offer 3 settings, approx values 93%, 95%, 97%
Actually, I believe casionjack has said the lowest setting is 91% for most slots, not 93%. I also believe the middle setting is approximately 94%, based on some numbers posted by virtualted way back (too lazy to search for it now).

Anyone with inside knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

casinojack

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
Costa Rica
Actually, I believe casionjack has said the lowest setting is 91% for most slots, not 93%. I also believe the middle setting is approximately 94%, based on some numbers posted by virtualted way back (too lazy to search for it now).

Anyone with inside knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong.
depends on the game, some have 2 settings some have 3

Some are lower then 93%...
 

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