playerwin VS InterCasino

Dear Fuat

Thank you for sending your details to our customer services team. I apologise for the slight delay in replying to you but I wanted to ensure I had fully investigated your situation and spoken to all the relevant departments within the company.

As you know, you were asked to provide an enhanced KYC which was triggered by the big win you had against the deposit amount that you made. This is an automatic process that we have. In tandem to this enhanced KYC, we also investigated your gameplay and betting patterns associated with your play and have come to the following conclusions:

1. You opened your account in October 2013
2. You always deposited using Neteller
3. You have never deposited without a bonus / promotion
4. Your game play is almost exclusively in Batman, Superman and Snake Charmer – all high volatility games
5. Your betting patterns have been between €20 & €60 per spin which in conjunction with the games played shows high volatility bonus play

On their own these patterns show a high potential of bonus abuse / bonus advantage play, however we also discovered that you share a very similar deposit, play and betting patterns to another Swedish customer who came in around the same period and we are suspicious about a third customer too. This similarity includes the use of the same IP address on at least four separate occasions and within a very short timeframe of each other, making it far more than a coincidence.

The list of the same IP addresses used within a few hours of each other are

5.241.255.72
176.71.54.134
80.170.78.15
5.241.0.161

Fuat, our payments & fraud team therefore believe that you and this other person are actually multi accounting in order to maximise your ability to make profit from the bonuses on offer , all the evidence I have seen leads me to the same conclusion and is in a clear breach of our general bonus terms and conditions, where you are clearly not permitted to use multiple accounts nor use the bonus offers for the sole purpose of attempted bonus exploitation .

I am therefore confident that the right decision was made to confiscate your winnings as they were gained by breaching our terms and conditions. I would however on this occasion (whilst not obligated in any way to do so) refund the last deposit you made of €300 which was associated with this confiscated win. Please advise if you wish me to do so.

I am afraid, that we must consider this our final decision should you wish to appeal it. However you are able to complain to our licensing authority (Malta Regulatory Authority) who have an independent complaints service, the details of which can be found on both their and our website.

Yours sincerely

Vince
Casino Manager

Biggest joke of a response from an operator I've ever seen & with a response like that with regards to game play & deposit patterns I'm amazed they have a licence to operate never mind being accredited here.

A few points I'd like to raise with Vince:

This player has been a member of your site since 2013, that's nearly 2 years so I would presume he/she has withdrawn something at some point, why didn't any suspicions about this player being out to defraud you arise on previous withdrawals?

They deposited via Neteller?, what's the insinuation there?. If depositing via a wallet is too much of a risk for your business maybe think about not accepting it at all?.

He/she has never deposited without a bonus?, you said you were offering a bonus 'every day' in february, do you expect people to deposit multiple times a day to stay under your profiteering 'radar', thus encouraging irresponsible gambling?. It's quite simple, just stop offering the player bonuses altogether if you don't like their playing methods & hopefully they'll find an operator more reasonable, generous & accommodating.

Points 4 & 5, maybe you should advertise on your website exactly the amounts and games players can legitimately play?. I remember a time where bonuses were involved it used to be red & black together or Blackjack play that used to upset operators and lead to all sorts of accusations about trying to profit from bonuses and not playing within the 'spirit of the promotion'. This player looks to have risked a significant amount of funds at the stakes you've quoted over time & it could have easily gone the other way. I would wager the issue of fraudulent multi-accounting would never have been raised by intercasino with a relevant legal capacity had the player deposited & lost €30k

As I've already said on this forum countless times & raised some quite heated arguments with regards to multi-accounting the casino should do all its checks the minute the first deposit is made. In the UK most of the operators now regulated by the Gambling Comission do an anti money laundering check against your credit file, this checks you exist as a person, are over 18, live at the address you've entered on signup, correct date of birth etc. Similarly your bank will not authorise a transaction if the address doesn't match up. This same system is used to authorise credit facilities & it's pretty robust against fraud. Whether Sweden has a similar system I do not know but checks should be made as soon as a player attempts to make their first deposit.

If two accounts are opened under the same name at the same address or any details don't tally up then the casino should easily spot this straight away & close the duplicate or close both if it feels the player is fraudulently trying to gain.

However, If a family member also living at the same address, sharing the same physical internet connection also decided to join the same casino it is not fair to penalise either player when they could both be legitimate customers which is what I fear happens all too often when things like IP addresses are used to make accusations. In a land based casino people walk down the same path to get into the building, so does that automatically mean they know each other and are colluding or one person is impersonating another?. Not necessarily, but it's sadly what this industry always jumps to as a conclusion as well as a lot of people on this forum.

I first opened an account with Intercasino in 2005 & stopped playing there around 2009 because they were losing it against competitors who had better quality games and rewards. Looking at this they look to have lost it behind the scenes as well. I've never looked back and definitely won't again after reading this, whether multi-accounting is or isn't involved it's quite clear they've looked for rediculous excuses NOT to make a payout before the possible IP collusion issue.

Unless multi accounting can be proved conclusively the RNG decided that player should get €30k & he should be paid!.
 
This one bogged down due to changing reps, etc. It was resubmitted several weeks ago but I don't remember seeing a reply.
 
As requested, the customer in question sent us his details directly and I have now had time to investigate the complaint and reply directly to him. (the content of which will remain confidential)

InterCasino is an old, established and well known to be an honest casino which always pays out when a player wins, it is also at the core of our ethos and morals. We are one of the most generous online casinos in the world, offering a bonus every day during the month of February. However, in order to be able to offer such bonuses to our genuine players, we have to take a tough stance on clear bonus abuse/r or multiple accounts with the purpose of using our bonuses to maximise their wins. This is unfair on us as a business and unfair on our genuine players who suffer from less attractive bonus offers. We therefore strictly monitor any bonus abuse and through our terms and conditions in order prevent such players from abusing them.

I see this as a very positive thing for an online casino to do, as there are a very small proportion of players who purposely abuse the casino’s generosity. Not for the enjoyment, but rather with the express of always profiting over time, not via a lucky big win. In which we at InterCasino do love, but via an honest process of mathematical probability, which over time will always mean they are on top.

Vince
Casino Manager
InterCasino.com


This is BS. If people take a bonus then that is because they want to win.

If they meet the terms and complete wagering then you should pay up.

Morals and ethics my anus.

Definitely added to my rogue list.
 
This one bogged down due to changing reps, etc. It was resubmitted several weeks ago but I don't remember seeing a reply.


Maybe its time for an ultimatum - respond or we'll publish and be damned.

Can't believe how long this has dragged on for.

Inter should put up or pay up.
 
This one bogged down due to changing reps, etc. It was resubmitted several weeks ago but I don't remember seeing a reply.

so...

why wont they be blacklisted? they are still accredited.

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/intercasino/

imo its obvious the casino is not telling the truth in this case if they try to make you forget...

rogue behaviour. wouldnt recommend them to my worst enemy.
 
That ip change

My ip changes every day. For 100Mb mobile line.

That is strange behaviour, for casino which was good. I also stopped playing there in 2011
 
Can't believe how long this has dragged on for. ...

Indeed, it is unusual for a case regarding Intercasino to drag on this long. I'd say that's a very good reason for not being too hasty about kicking them to the curb.

Generally speaking casinos with good (or excellent) track records should be given a little slack when it comes to one particular case that has gone off the rails.

Of course "a little slack" should have its limitations and I don't argue that Intercasino is sailing dangerously close to that limit now.

I'll pick this up on Monday and see if we can't get this resolved one way or the other ASAP.
 
Obviously they have, and it seems so do many other casinos. Some don't even verify at all until the magic figure of around €2000 is hit.


I also wonder why casinos don't take the very simple approach to address validation of sending out a letter (with a unique code) to the player at their registered address, and requiring them to enter this code in order to validate that they actually live there and can receive post. No amount of photoshopping expertise can overcome this obstacle to getting away with using a false address.

But some casinos do, do that right? Im sure I've verified myself that way through a casino or two :) its a great idea
 
I also wonder why casinos don't take the very simple approach to address validation of sending out a letter (with a unique code) to the player at their registered address, and requiring them to enter this code in order to validate that they actually live there and can receive post. No amount of photoshopping expertise can overcome this obstacle to getting away with using a false address.

There was a casino that used to do that, I thought it WAS Intercasino....? Or am I thinking of Sands of the Caribbean? But anyhow it was like that, when you first signed up they sent you a unique code via snail mail and although you could play, you couldn't withdraw until you received the mail and entered the code. Of course people complained because they had to wait a week or whatever until the got the letter...
 
There was a casino that used to do that, I thought it WAS Intercasino....? Or am I thinking of Sands of the Caribbean? But anyhow it was like that, when you first signed up they sent you a unique code via snail mail and although you could play, you couldn't withdraw until you received the mail and entered the code. Of course people complained because they had to wait a week or whatever until the got the letter...

Wasn't this the code from Webdollar? I think it was 4-5 digit code which you had to submit in the cashier... But it's terribly long ago and I am not certain. But there where a couple of casinos that used webdollar that did this kind of procedure.
 
I clearly remember Bet365 allowed a first deposit, but not a second, until you received a code by snail mail. I didn't withdraw on my first deposit with them, so I am unsure if I would have had to wait, but I suspect I might have. Pretty sure I never had to send them ID ever, but I was asked once if they could telephone me for KYC.
 
Wasn't this the code from Webdollar? I think it was 4-5 digit code which you had to submit in the cashier... But it's terribly long ago and I am not certain. But there where a couple of casinos that used webdollar that did this kind of procedure.

I can't really remember either, but I was thinking the processor was called something like "ECash" or "ECash something" or "Esomething Cash" or something like that. I remember that there were two partner casinos that used it though, so it was either Intercasino and VIP or Sands of the Caribbean and Omni (before they were Playtech) I do remember receiving the mail and I never entered the code since I hadn't won anything - then one day I tried to deposit and wasn't able to, so I had to dig through a month or two of mail to find the code. :oops:
 
There was a casino that used to do that, I thought it WAS Intercasino....? Or am I thinking of Sands of the Caribbean? But anyhow it was like that, when you first signed up they sent you a unique code via snail mail and although you could play, you couldn't withdraw until you received the mail and entered the code. Of course people complained because they had to wait a week or whatever until the got the letter...

It was Intercasino, I played there way back in 1998, they sent out the pin via snail mail for sure.
 
There was a casino that used to do that, I thought it WAS Intercasino....? Or am I thinking of Sands of the Caribbean? But anyhow it was like that, when you first signed up they sent you a unique code via snail mail and although you could play, you couldn't withdraw until you received the mail and entered the code. Of course people complained because they had to wait a week or whatever until the got the letter...

Yes it was intercasino that sent a PIN number in the post which you needed to make any withdrawal from the account, initially they would also only refund up to the value of total deposits to your card and the remainder would be paid by cheque to the name and address you'd verified by pin. A very secure and sensible method of doing payouts making sure you are who you say you are and that the money was going to the right person.

Of course these days your just a suspected fraudster before you even place your first wager.

Despite more freedom in advertising, better regulation to make it fairer to both the player & the operator it's assumed you probably have the neighbours round with several devices all on the same IP address all playing a high variance slot at the same time thus colluding to beat the random number generator. If you play games similar to someone less than a million miles away your working together to take a profit. It's a given assumption by many until you can prove your innocence.

Then we get to the humble bonus, an oh so generous £500 free signup or £50 monthly reload that sounds an incredible sweetener on the face of it, which they genuinely were about 5 years ago!, but these days we get to the T&C's, and see a minefield of games you simply cannot play at all, or you can but only bet a set amount, if you win over a certain amount the rest is void. All this coupled with an astronomical amount of wagering, and woe betide you break these rules they will just confiscate the lot and it's fair and acceptable to do that. These days sadly in most cases, promotions are designed to suck you in & guarantee you will lose.

The way they are all too often advertised is the biggest form of fraud & deception going in the industry. Indeed Intercasino itself is currently carrying an advert on its mobile site for a table games bonus. 'Start your intercasino adventure with up to £300 in your account' it states. Then in huge text 'put it all on red or black?, it's your call'

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Reading the terms its explicitly forbidden to place the entire bonus on one hand so there's no way at all you can legitimately do what they are suggesting in their advertising. Fraud, deception, false advertising on their part but all you'll get if you raise this as an issue is its an oversight by the marketing team sorry, we'll change it or even worse they'll just leave it to suck more unsuspecting players in. It's unlikely they'd do the decent thing & contact anyone that believed the tagline claim and refund them their deposits.

It's a bug bear, operators being able to play the victim & not paying out when their far from whiter than white themselves.

All checks on a players legitimacy should be done at the beginning and regularly throughout the players time with the casino not like it so conveniently is on withdrawal of a big win as an excuse not to pay as that's what it always looks like & let's face it, probably is!.
 
I'll pick this up on Monday and see if we can't get this resolved one way or the other ASAP.

FWIW the case details are (back) in the hands of the reps, should see action one way or the other soon.
 
OK, the casino has shown me the evidence in their case against the player. I believe they have a good case of multiple account fraud and support their decision against the player: his PAB has been closed and he's been booted from the site for PAB fraud.

Thread title changed to better reflect the actual circumstances, original was "Intercasino doesn't want to pay my big win (EUR 38,000)".
 
OK, the casino has shown me the evidence in their case against the player. I believe they have a good case of multiple account fraud and support their decision against the player: his PAB has been closed and he's been booted from the site for PAB fraud.

Thread title changed to better reflect the actual circumstances, original was "Intercasino doesn't want to pay my big win (EUR 38,000)".

Disappointing to read as it initially looked like intercasino were purely looking for an excuse not to pay. I still don't agree with the fact that casinos only ever seem to do these 'investigations' on the payout of a large win. They should be doing checks from account opening onwards to make sure everything is legitimate if they did this then these types of complaints wouldn't arise.

I also still wouldn't ever play again at intercasino for a few reasons, including the handling of this matter, citations of not playing within the 'spirit of the bonus' and other excuses not to pay BEFORE telling the player he/she was suspected of fraud. In Vinces response there were an unbelievable number of accusations & allegations & I also dislike intercasinos promotion policies insimuating you can stick your entire balance from deposit & bonus on red/black in its advertising which is a fraudulent and dishonest claim in itself and advising potential new customers to 'take full advantage of our welcome bonus' when if you actually take advantage of a promotion you are likely to find yourself in breach of their bonus policy.
 
Disappointing to read as it initially looked like intercasino were purely looking for an excuse not to pay. I still don't agree with the fact that casinos only ever seem to do these 'investigations' on the payout of a large win. They should be doing checks from account opening onwards to make sure everything is legitimate if they did this then these types of complaints wouldn't arise.

I also still wouldn't ever play again at intercasino for a few reasons, including the handling of this matter, citations of not playing within the 'spirit of the bonus' and other excuses not to pay BEFORE telling the player he/she was suspected of fraud. In Vinces response there were an unbelievable number of accusations & allegations & I also dislike intercasinos promotion policies insimuating you can stick your entire balance from deposit & bonus on red/black in its advertising which is a fraudulent and dishonest claim in itself and advising potential new customers to 'take full advantage of our welcome bonus' when if you actually take advantage of a promotion you are likely to find yourself in breach of their bonus policy.

Your right, Let it be a £1 or £1000,000

If casinos can pull players on spirit of this shit, Spirt of the ghost than they should simply no longer give bonus, But like 99% of casino, Take Take Take untill win? I do not like saying this but its true, Every thing is fine untill the casino is out of pocket and its a different story, Correct me if I am wrong here,

Do not get me wrong there is many of good casino out there & probs including the above mentioned but give us players a break, Unless you have a good reason please do not feck us players over
 
Your right, Let it be a £1 or £1000,000

If casinos can pull players on spirit of this shit, Spirt of the ghost than they should simply no longer give bonus, But like 99% of casino, Take Take Take untill win? I do not like saying this but its true, Every thing is fine untill the casino is out of pocket and its a different story, Correct me if I am wrong here,

Do not get me wrong there is many of good casino out there & probs including the above mentioned but give us players a break, Unless you have a good reason please do not feck us players over

Cant agree

Your in the UK right. If you went to the bank and didnt have your card, they would let you take 100/200/300 out after answering a few verification questions. If you went in and said I dont have my card and want £25k they would not give you a penny. This is only same. He hit a triggger point that a casino wanted advance verification so thats when they requested it. For some reason they have then linked him to other players and so we are basically arguing about someone who tried to screw a casino and got caught.

If for some reason the advance checks came later and caught him so be it. It would be in the casinos interest to do these earlier to catch the fraudulant accounts.
 
Cant agree

Your in the UK right. If you went to the bank and didnt have your card, they would let you take 100/200/300 out after answering a few verification questions. If you went in and said I dont have my card and want £25k they would not give you a penny. This is only same. He hit a triggger point that a casino wanted advance verification so thats when they requested it. For some reason they have then linked him to other players and so we are basically arguing about someone who tried to screw a casino and got caught.

If for some reason the advance checks came later and caught him so be it. It would be in the casinos interest to do these earlier to catch the fraudulant accounts.

Yes but why need extra I.D, They either have it or they do not?

Any casino that have asked me have got my drive licence (pictured) bills, copy of card/s, skrill account sheen shot, What possible more do they want a finger print or blood sample? Do not be fooled about extra I.D as what possible can you give more?
 

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