player's union discussion

We not like another affiliate

339157xxx- ICQ [9:52 AM]: Hi was checking your site
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referback is good you should also give a try to casinoblasters and allstaraffiliates... are you signed up to them yet ?
BiblePimp [9:53 AM]: what cainos run on casino blasters
BiblePimp [9:53 AM]: and all star
BiblePimp [9:53 AM]: ?
339157527 - ICQ [9:54 AM]: casinoblasters = Goldenpalace, Aspinalls, Grandonline, Flamingoclub, 24ktgoldcasino (each of them have PokerRoom Version)
BiblePimp [9:55 AM]: golden palace group slow pays
BiblePimp [9:55 AM]: so i wlill not put them up
BiblePimp [9:55 AM]: thanks for the info thru
33915xxxx - ICQ [9:56 AM]: allstaraffiliates is owned by the same team as casinoblasters.. they have the following casinos: online vegas, onlybingo, gocasino, grandriviera, merlin's magic, thesixshooter, topcardcasino, triple win
33915xxx - ICQ [9:57 AM]: same high conversion than casinoblasters
BiblePimp [9:58 AM]: high conversion, but slow pay
I dont like slowpaying casinos, That would look bad for my site
339157xxx - ICQ [9:59 AM]: I dont know from where you got this information, I've always betted on goldenpalace myself... as its' the net's 2st most popular casinos... conversion is very high people trust it's brand name
BiblePimp [10:01 AM]: Information, go to wol, or casinomeister and ask the players how long do they get paid, also golden palace goes crazy things to get clients,
they buy a cane or a sandwich but cant pay there clients in less than 24 hours

339157xxx - ICQ [10:02 AM]: I seriously dont know what you guys have against casinoblasters... seriously it's my best paying sponsor they always pays at the beginning of each month on time... ALWAYS like 2 weeks before referback pays... they have no negative rollover and I good guys I leave close to their office and know many manager personally... they are honnest people
BiblePimp [10:03 AM]: where do u leave
33915xxxx - ICQ [10:04 AM]: Sorry for all the text, I'm just shocked seriously if there is company that have never tried to screw me... it's casinoblasters (allstaraffiliates and referback)
339157xxxx - ICQ [10:04 AM]: Qubec, Canada
BiblePimp [10:05 AM]: to me slow pays is wrong
33915xxxx - ICQ [10:08 AM]: I can have you Frdric from Casinoblasters talking to you he's availbale on icq he has nothing to hide.... if 'goldenpalace' is the problem for you try promoting GrandOnline Casino ... it's about the same conversion and/or allstaraffiliates casinos instead... but I guaranty you dude their conversion is better than referback
BiblePimp [10:09 AM]: the point is not convesion, its slow paying customers

This been happening for the pass two weeks, some one asking me to put a slow paying casino up

Also we list slow paying casinos, i have been doing for over a year.
You dont see to many other portols list slow paying casinos

We dont list any casinos, also the players have a voice that the main difference.
 
Freudian said:
To be honest, this seems like a normal affiliate thing where the affiliate helps when their players have a problem with a casino. I simply don't see where the union part comes in when the explicit goal is to make money for the two affiliates.

Add in the silly blackjack system and we have the most bizarre interpretation of the word union ever. I don't think the guys behind it are bad people but surely they can't expect it to work as anything beyond a banner farm?
I am starting to think the same thing.
I am sure the 'meister does not want to be the first to say it, but this thread seems to be becoming more of an advert for someone else's portal than any serious attempt to form a 'players' union'.
 
We didnt start this tread. I repect bryan and his work, and have for over a year sent people this way.

I had a free standing site up for over a year, reporting slow pays and no pays. What we plan on doing cost money. We ask for players input, we trying to united all the players. But if you dont want to be apart that is fine, we will keep trying.

This my last post here on this thread.
Have a nice day people
 
perhaps that was a little harsh, sorry, but I will explain.

I didn't see why you decided to post again about your 'guarantee' - your guarantee only applies when you act as an affiliate - so I see that as promoting your affiliate business. It has been made clear that because it's your money at stake the guarantee is not open for debate with union members.

I also didn't see the need to post your conversation titled 'We not like another affiliate'. Your integrity has not been questioned, and did not need to be defended, so again, that seemed more like a promotion of the affiliate business.

Back to the union business, I would also say that I am a little dissapointed that you have simply dismissed a number of the complaints made (such as those about semi-naked pictures). If you truly want to represent people, then you must listen to the concerns of those you purport to represent. Even if you don't agree with them, they will have some merit (even Caruso's!).

I would also like to say that although I have disagreed with a number of things, Mark has posted some thoughtful and reflective comments, and I think that more of that is needed to take this debate forward.
 
I assure you all that our player insurance is much more than a marketing ploy. This is real money we have put aside to allow our members to play with a sense of security, and if you all think that all the bad casinos have packed up and left the internet, then by all means click away and good luck.

Petunia, I sense a level of strong hostility from you in regards to our little venture. You seem to have all the right ideas, and we are wrong wrong wrong, our site isn't structured the way you would like it to be, we didn't put together a business plan that you agree with ect.....since you opened the door, allow me to respond. Perhaps you should make sure your house is clean before you go telling the neighbors how dirty theirs is. I went to your site last week, after you announced on casinomeister that you were welcoming 32 red into your site. I scanned the site, and found a email address to send a request to submit a press release. I promptly sent an email to the address, and it was returned to me within the hour as undeliverable, I sent another one, making sure the spelling was correct, and just to be on the safe side i sent one to the other email address listed on your site. Both were returned as "undeliverable adress doesn't exist". So, maybe you should fix that HUH!?!?!?

Big_mac thank you for your imput. Please allow me to respond. We go to great lengths to meet the needs of our members. I know I recieve 3-5 emails a day from members asking questions, and making sugestions ect...we encourage our members to voice their concerns and list their sugestions. We will take heed of the sugestions made during this conversation held here the past couple of days. We will not however, jump in and change our site and forum every time someone posts an issue on casinomeister. It is after all a member forum, thus far our members seem to be fine with the way things are. If you are trully concerned then join up and offer your two cents.

Now........On to the rest of you. Thank you all for your time and effort in making replies and sugestions. I asked Bryan in private if it was ok to lay this issue on the line for debate. Once he granted me that permission this thread took off like gang busters. Again, thank you Bryan for allowing Damian and I to bring this to your house for review and debate. Thank you Jetset for all your help behind the scenes, and any time you would like to interview us for your newsletter, we are just an email away.

Some of you will never, under the best of cirmustances think we are doing something that will have a positive impact on this industry. Your negative attitudes, and hopes of our demise speak volumes, and we wish you well. Even if you don't return the sentiment. We will no longer allow our site to be open for the general public to view and thrash on this or any other forum. We are as of today, strictly a members only unioin. This was planned well in advance to coincide with our marketing blitz that begins today.

Thank you all again, and for those who do wish us well we hope you will join us, and continue to offer your insight on how we can make the players union better.
 
I dont mean to be negative but this has got no chance of suceeding guys. Any true "players union" would not be advertising ANY casinos full stop.

It would be like (in the UK) one of the main regulators financally benefiting from the thing they are regulating.

A conflict of interests is bound to arrise sooner or later.

Sorry to be negative guys, no offense :D
 
m249a said:
I assure you all that our player insurance is much more than a marketing ploy. This is real money we have put aside to allow our members to play with a sense of security, and if you all think that all the bad casinos have packed up and left the internet, then by all means click away and good luck.

Yes, but as far as I understand it you wouldn't offer the insurance against a casino you don't have as an affiliate. And as Bethug pointed out you're not going to sign up with any casinos you've got doubts about (even those which are only 'slow pay' rather than 'no play'). So I don't see how you're either going to help players playing at those casinos, or have any influence on them to change their ways. Certainly if you're now going to be behind closed doors then you'll have no influence by shaming casinos - at least with a site like Casinomeister the casino in question might google themselves and be slightly miffed when the first link includes the word ROGUE :thumbsup:

I might have misunderstood Bethug's explanation of the insurance but now it's impossible to check. This was what he wrote:

bethug said:
First and most obvious would of course be our player guarantee. This is rather simple, you as a registered Union Member can play at any of our sanctioned casinos, sports books or poker rooms with the security of our player guarantee. If you are ripped off by one of our sanctioned casinos, you will be paid by us. Up to $500.00USD. You must be a Union member, and register your real money account thru our website/forum. There are some terms and conditions for this insurance, but they are rather simple too. This is NOT losers insurance, this is insurance against unethical behavior towards the player.

Anyway, I don't wish you to fail, but I don't really see how you're going to be much different to other sites with affiliate links which are willing to chase up problems with those casinos. Still, I hope you suprise us all!
 
QUOTE Thank you Jetset for all your help behind the scenes.UNQUOTE

No biggie - but listen to advice from the experienced players here if you really want to succeed.

QUOTE Some of you will never, under the best of circumstances think we are doing something that will have a positive impact on this industry. Your negative attitudes, and hopes of our demise speak volumes, and we wish you well. Even if you don't return the sentiment. We will no longer allow our site to be open for the general public to view and thrash on this or any other forum. UNQUOTE

I hope I am wrong in detecting a note of bitterness at the reaction here, but that goes with the territory. I also hope that closing your site to general visitors is not part of that, because I truly think it's a mistake - it dilutes your impact and leaves an impression that you are not transparent.
 
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Jetset anyone can view the main site, and any player that meets the code of conduct can join the union and forum.
 
A true players union should teach them quit gambling.

Help them find a job, or do something smarter.

Gamblers are the poorest kind of people.

No peace of mind, no real friends, but the devil himself.

May God bless us all!
 
Petunia, I sense a level of strong hostility from you in regards to our little venture. You seem to have all the right ideas, and we are wrong wrong wrong, our site isn't structured the way you would like it to be, we didn't put together a business plan that you agree with ect.....since you opened the door, allow me to respond. Perhaps you should make sure your house is clean before you go telling the neighbors how dirty theirs is. I went to your site last week, after you announced on casinomeister that you were welcoming 32 red into your site. I scanned the site, and found a email address to send a request to submit a press release. I promptly sent an email to the address, and it was returned to me within the hour as undeliverable, I sent another one, making sure the spelling was correct, and just to be on the safe side i sent one to the other email address listed on your site. Both were returned as "undeliverable adress doesn't exist". So, maybe you should fix that HUH!?!?!?

** Please let me make it clear that a) I am not claiming to be a professional other than offering experience and a little information. I had absolutely NO problem with the venture, as a matter of fact, I offered input which I thought was constructive. Your problem with the website. Well,Let's see... In all honesty, you could have made me aware of it. I only became aware through a PM of the problem by SOMEONE ELSE who were understanding! I honestly did not know about that problem untill now. YOu could not be friendly enough to do that? You are welcome to send a request again, as I have in the mean time fixed the problem. Let me clear up a few assumptions too. I did that site because I believe in what I am doing. I am not charging anyone anything for it, nor am I expecting anything from it! I never recieved anything in the HOTMAIL account either, and you should check to see if you wrote "Hotmail.com, or Hotmail.co.uk". Please. I have no feud with you or Bethug. Bethug on the other hand made the assumption that I play with my rent money, and don't have a job. Well two things. I don't play with my rent money, and Yes, maybe I don't have a job, but it does not make me POOR or a reason to discriminate against me gambling! I think the advise I offered was sound business points, and it turned personal based on BETHUG's millions in store. Either way. I thought the idea was great, untill I noticed a few ego-drops. It concerned me. I had a look at your site too, and thought "Nice". Clicked here, clicked there, noticed a few broken links (which I was going to make you aware of in private) but sinc you air my 'dirty laundry' I guess you can find them for yourselves. I think the idea is a good one. I wish you the best of luck with it, and I hope that you guys find the right vehicle to drive it.
***
 
Some of you will never, under the best of cirmustances think we are doing something that will have a positive impact on this industry. Your negative attitudes, and hopes of our demise speak volumes, and we wish you well.

Mark--try and take yourself out of this situation. You're no stranger to the forums and you know that skepticsm and cynicism is part and parcel amongst the postings. With that in mind, pretend this venture was being launched by others. Really think hard on this. How would you perceive things? Imagine there are issues being brought about by not just one or two people, but by SEVERAL. And these issues being brought forth were being met with defensive statements and a certain degree of arrogance. My guess is your attitude would then become a bit negative towards the venture, as well.

On the other hand, imagine the very same scenario, only in this one, those launching the venture were open, responsive and receptive to comments. Certain reasonable changes were made in quick fashion. The dialogue with the players was seen as valid AND valuable. Remember--the players are the ONLY ones that matter, as these are the very people necessary to make the venture succeed. This time, I'm guessing, you'd have a positive attitude towards the venture.

I truly believed that you and Damian had the best of intentions by wanting to get posters here discussing their feelings in helping you to shape this union, until...

Even if you don't return the sentiment. We will no longer allow our site to be open for the general public to view and thrash on this or any other forum. We are as of today, strictly a members only unioin. This was planned well in advance to coincide with our marketing blitz that begins today.

I feel this is such a slap in the face to everyone who participated in this thread, as well as a huge slam on Bryan for allowing this thread in the first place. You went out of your way to contact Bryan, out of concern that this thread may or may not be appropriate. After he gave you the green light, you opened yourselves up to scrutiny and now you consider this "being thrashed." Worst of all, this was simply "marketing strategy."

As you seemed to be concerned with "constructive criticism," here's something constructive regarding marketing...NEVER exploit those you are marketing towards. And yes, you have exploited every single person who cared enough to give you valuable input by showing your true colors with your terse words and the knowledge that this "thrashing" was indeed, your "marketing strategy."

There IS a certain irony here. For a very long time, Damian had spoken vocally against the closed door policy with the GPWA. Now it appears that this is the very policy being adopted by the Online Players Union.

While I do wish both you and Damian well on this, I believe you've only made it far tougher on yourselves by the way business has been conducted, thus far.
 
Petunia, my apoligies if I came off as too harsh. I felt you were overly critical in our business plan, and you intentionally baited Damian into a "shouting match" in regards to his personal finances.

Folks, our decision to close the forum to non-members was planned well in advance. No, my intention was not to "slap Bryan in the face" either. I have nothing but respect for what he has accomplished, and we can only hope we reach his level of crediblity in this industry. Bryan I hope you don't view our action as offensive.

Numbers speak, as I write this I am aware of over 2,400 hits on this thread, with over 80 replies. It would appear we have struck a nerve. We have taken your advice to heart, changes WERE made based upon the advice some of you offered, and I again thank all of you for taking the time to offer it.

We felt from the very begining that we would need a closed forum for our members to speak freely. We left the forum open long enough to attract attention. Our date on closing the forum, to the general public was, like I said eariler, meant to coincide with our marketing blitz. We did not start this thread, jetset did. After we were given permission we jumped into the fray. Just because there was a hot topic discussion going on here, doesn't mean we should change our marketing plan, again no offense Bryan.

There is a thin line between confidence and arrogance, at times I may come off as arrogant. My intentions are pure, but my method may be flawed at times. Fair enough.

I cannot say this enough, our decision to close the FORUM was planned and agreed upon 6 weeks ago. We are NOT making a knee-jerk reaction, because some of you think we are all kinds of f#@*ed up. I am certian I will have to repeat that several times. We would be very foolish to piss off the most powerful player/casino advocate on the web today......casinomeister.

Thank you all for your valuable imput.
 
With an "open" site I saw little chance of this taking off as a player advocate group, for the reasons given. Now that for some extraordinary reason it's become "members only" it has no chance whatsoever. A lot of negativity has been expressed on both sides, and such an endeavour can only succeed with transparancy and goodwill. Noting, however, the several references to "marketing" and the delight expressed at the amount of hits and replies to this thread, one concludes that this was always an advertising gimmick for another gambling website.

Good luck to Mark and Damian for their new casino portal. With the kick-start it's had from free advertising at Casinomeister I daresay the dollars are already rolling in.
 
caruso said:
With an "open" site I saw little chance of this taking off as a player advocate group, for the reasons given. Now that for some extraordinary reason it's become "members only" it has no chance whatsoever. A lot of negativity has been expressed on both sides, and such an endeavour can only succeed with transparancy and goodwill. Noting, however, the several references to "marketing" and the delight expressed at the amount of hits and replies to this thread, one concludes that this was always an advertising gimmick for another gambling website.

Good luck to Mark and Damian for their new casino portal. With the kick-start it's had from free advertising at Casinomeister I daresay the dollars are already rolling in.

Thats really out of line caruso, I have shown you respect and taken your advice and criticism to heart. We ar seriously trying to create something that will have a positive impact on this largely unregulated industry.

We do not desire to be "transparent" we are a MEMBERS ONLY union. We have made that clear from the get go. We made no attempt what-so-ever to conceal our desire to profit from our hard work. I expressed no "delight" to the number of hits on this thread. The dollars are not rolling in, and we are PAYING for our advertising. Jetset created a press release for us, at no charge. Even after we offered him a fee for his time. The other forms of advertising we are using we pay for. We are NOT just another gambling portal, we are a PLAYERS UNION. You speak in terms of goodwill, then slap our hand away when we reach it out. If you review my replies to the number of insults we have endured, you will see I made a genuine effort to thank those who offered solid advice, and even thanked those who didn't. No matter what we do it will never be up to your standard caruso, and for that I am trully sorry. At least we are trying to do something, instead of sitting around and wondering what if....
 
Every revolution was first a thought in a man's head.

Meister's idea is great, but without his talent and hard work, it would be just an idea.

Union idea is unique, anything that unity people is a good thing, more power to you guys.
 
I acknowledge you ditched - or rather renamed - Damain's system stuff. I don't believe you removed the "girlie" nonsense which is going to alienate about 50% of your market. Beyond the former, I don't know what you did - nor will I, now.

No offence, and you will acknowledge I'm as vocal a player supporter as anyone, but in creating this you've included inappropriate content, made a clear point of looking to profit and having been involved in a "marketing" strategy, got just a tad aggressive in response to criticism and closed your site to the general public. If this is an attempt at a genuine player-advocacy concept I don't think it's been gone about the right way. It needed to be open ("members only" just doesn't cut it), non profit-driven and professionally to the point. As a PORTAL, it's been done OK. Hence my opinion.
 
caruso said:
If this is an attempt at a genuine player-advocacy concept I don't think it's been gone about the right way. It needed to be open ("members only" just doesn't cut it), non profit-driven and professionally to the point. As a PORTAL, it's been done OK. Hence my opinion.
Everybody would be more than glad to have a real union. Damian, if you really want to represent players'interests you should remove any affiliate link from your website. If you leave them you are just giving the message that you want to make money out of the players that will sign in from your web site. A real quality list needs to have only general links to the casinos.
 
padanian said:
Everybody would be more than glad to have a real union. Damian, if you really want to represent players'interests you should remove any affiliate link from your website. If you leave them you are just giving the message that you want to make money out of the players that will sign in from your web site. A real quality list needs to have only general links to the casinos.

I wondered about that myself. Should a union accept advertising dollars? It seems to me it has to charge members or accept affiliate monies. I don't think charging members will work.

Within the model I advocate, this is something that I would want resolved in the initial charter. I would vote to accept the affiliate monies and limit affiliates to seal holders. There would have to be other controls as well.

I wish Damien and Mark good luck. And I note the interest this thread has brought. For those with alternative ideas, there need not be one union.

Stanford.
 
Caruso, any one can post a picture,(no nudes) people talking about non profit,right now its non profit, have not made a dime or make a dime for a long time. We been giving money out and we will contiue to give money out, saying that. There no casino portal that has insurance. Not one. This money is back by us and we plan to add more.

Even non profits, churches, girl scouts market it self, i dont understand this complaint.

Regarding my hood 3000 system, which I get 3 to 5 emails aday not including the pms, will be market head to toe, how much will I sale it for, lets see 0.00 dollars. The people I have took the time and help are doing well. If you dont like it caruso skip the section.
You can talk about any playing system on that forum now. I dont see what the problem now.

padanian, people know i am all for the player and that will never change, the casinogurdian site before some rogue casino had my free host cut it lose, had no afflicate links,not one and it had a forum. Right now for us to be strong union we need loyal memebers, so we will market for them and give them bonus

Thanks for your input padanian and others. We have made changes , but the main them will remain, union members can vote a casino on and off, entertainment and free money and good chat with less drama
 
For the record lol..

The OPA worked very well at what they did. Problem resolution and spreading the word.
It worked so well that it was worth selling out - twice.
The "Money" is obviously very complicated..

Anyway.
Of course the OPU can work. Whether it will or not I will wait and see.

For a start - aside the complcated stuff that Jetset, Bryan and Mary and the rest of the OPA heiracy/helpers could'nt get right.

1) Clean up the site code.
2) Remove the hood 3000.
3) Remove the picture thread.
4) Remove advertising for now.
5) Forget the insurance.

I do not know of M248 (Mark) well enough to offer a comment.

Damian though has real attributes somewhere in there. Not for this though. I am however, eager to be proved wrong.

I will gladly help him prove me totally wrong.

I indeed will do 1,2,3,4 and 5 or derivitives thereof tomorrow morning ~ just say the word Damian and Mark. Call it a donation if you like -- or whatever..
 
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can someone tell me< how the union should be run? How would you funded it?
joely what am i suited for?

Looking at what you type , we would not have a union or site :eek2:

So what your plan joely, you been around a while
 
bethug said:
- Can someone tell me how the union should be run?
- How would you funded it?
I would be simply guessing to answer. II need input from my peers Damian.


=====


bethug said:
- Looking at what you type , we would not have a union or a site..
Honestly, you barely have either sir. (I can help you with the site no sweat, not the numbers in the union)



======



bethug said:
- joely what am i suited for?
- So what your plan joely, you been around a while

You are brutally honest with your opinions.
However, you are also suited to adding a comedic spin to any given news item, however serious.

I have no plan for using those attributes. My personal plan is to get a plan one day.
 
Thank you for your offer Joeyl, however we will take a pass. We and thus far our members agree, are happy with the way things are set up right now. We took to heart some of the sugestions made to us during this discussion, as well as the thread I started over at sucks. Like I have said numerous times, we will never please everyone, we will continue however to make every effort to please our member base and are open to sugestions at any time.

It seems like our "joke section", "rate a picture" and the sub-forum formely known as "hood 3000 system" are drawing the most fire. We have renamed the "hood 3000 system" to simply "gambling systems". Our joke section is clearly marked with a warning, and our rate a picture section is open for all members to post their pictures. We don't care if they post pic's of their cats, dogs, hampsters or their gfriend/bfriend ect...and if they don't like to look at pictures then they have the option of not looking. We understand, and respect that quite a few of you do not like our forum, concept layout ect...thats quite alright we are going to give it a shot anyway. :)
 

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