Platinum Play booby-trap

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
OBR said:
Platinum Play has been one of my top recommended casinos for almost a year. I have played them many times in the past and everything has been great. I have never had a player complaint.

I have just removed Platinum Play from our top casinos lists. Their current bonus criteria and the advertising of bonus criteria do not meet our requirements for fairness.

I sincerely hope that things change for the better.
I also. I am very surprised this was not resolved by now. I am very appreciative when a portal insist on fairness and backs it up by delisting a casino. My hat is off.

Megan's issue is being discussed also at WOL. I am also surprised that apparantly someono at FL has been posting as a player in that thread - not very savery.

I hope to see resolution soon. FL is a long time favorite of mine.

Stanford
 

fortunelounge

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
South Africa
MeganSpot said:
This matter has not progressed since my complaint was registered with both the FL and Casinomeister (pitch a bitch) over two weeks ago.

This is not a complicated matter. Bogus T+Cs were invented in order to confiscate otherwise legitimate winnings.

These facts remain uncontested (I am happy to reproduce the exchange of emails where the bogus T+Cs were reiterated and emphasised by more than one PP customer service rep).

I trust this matter will be resolved shortly.
We are currently looking at making our Terms and Conditions more clear and we are investigating ways to make it easier for players to choose whether they wish to receive the Neteller bonus or not.

The calculation of your wagering requirement was absolutely correct and we certainly did not "invent" "bogus" Terms and Conditions to "confiscate" your winnings. I would appreciate it if you could clarify this statement.

The Neteller bonus is not a "trap" as you state as the wagering requirements are listed in the same spot where wagering requirements for all other bonuses are listed and were clear for you to see.

I would appreciate it if you could forward me the e-mails you refer to.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
UK
The wagering requirements are listed, but it's hard to argue the Neteller bonus isn't intended as a trap for anyone who doesn't read the t&c extremely carefully.

Perhaps just not giving the Neteller bonus along with other bonuses would solve most of these problems.

Or instead, rather than trying to make the terms clearer, you could consider just adding the Neteller bonus onto the standard bonus - so if someone receives a start-up bonus of $50 & a Neteller bonus of $5 then they could wager, say, 15x($55+deposit), rather than having to wager 15x(55+double the deposit). This happens at a number of casinos and would seem the much fairer option - no-one in their right mind (& who understood the terms) would actually choose to take up the Neteller bonus along with another bonus at present.

I still can't see why, if there's no intention to catch people out, you couldn't just return a cash-in to the player's account when they haven't met your complicated conditions. Confiscating the bonus & giving the player no chance of remedying the mistake just makes you look disreputable. Any chance of reconsidering this policy?
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
fortunelounge said:
The calculation of your wagering requirement was absolutely correct and we certainly did not "invent" "bogus" Terms and Conditions to "confiscate" your winnings.
I have to argue with this. The CS rep stated that you remove the bonuses in order of size, starting with the largest. This is not supported by the T&C, which state that WR have to be satisfied for each bonus in the order they were credited. If the WR are not satisfied, then you should remove bonuses in reverse chronological order, starting with the last one.
 

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
Grandmaster said:

"I have to argue with this. The CS rep stated that you remove the bonuses in order of size, starting with the largest. This is not supported by the T&C, which state that WR have to be satisfied for each bonus in the order they were credited."

I agree.

Vesuvio said:

"Or instead, rather than trying to make the terms clearer, you could consider just adding the Neteller bonus onto the standard bonus - so if someone receives a start-up bonus of $50 & a Neteller bonus of $5 then they could wager, say, 15x($55+deposit), rather than having to wager 15x(55+double the deposit). This happens at a number of casinos and would seem the much fairer option - no-one in their right mind (& who understood the terms) would actually choose to take up the Neteller bonus along with another bonus at present."

I agree with this also. Or as an alternative what was suggested on another board. Just make the bonus sticky with no further wagering requirements. It would still encourage neteller but as a sticky at the "bottom" of the chip stack - it really wouldn't cost much. Especially since it is a one time only bonus.

Wagering calculations are then always straight forward and the neteller bonus is *always* removed and there is no confusion.

Stanford
 

clj7221

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
U.S.A.
The Majority of complaints on this board are mostly about FL casinos.What does that tell you?
And most of my posts are complaints against them to.Your best bet is not to play there. Try casino us that is one of the best casinos and if you ever have an issue with them they clear it up in no time.
I do not see Fl as a respectable casino. Unfortunately I have had to many experiences with them to know first hand that they do not respect there players. It took me a year and a half to get them to stop telemarketing me.


Freudian said:
This is one of the reasons I don't play at FL casinos anymore. Calling it a trap is correct. Hopefully practices like this will end up costing casinos more than they make from it.
 

jpm

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
clj7221 said:
The Majority of complaints on this board are mostly about FL casinos.What does that tell you?
And most of my posts are complaints against them to.Your best bet is not to play there. Try casino us that is one of the best casinos and if you ever have an issue with them they clear it up in no time.
I do not see Fl as a respectable casino. Unfortunately I have had to many experiences with them to know first hand that they do not respect there players. It took me a year and a half to get them to stop telemarketing me.
It could be that they have the largest player base of any casino as well. Its a tough call. I do not think they are rogue casino, but they have some CSR issues that need to be resolved, as they've been going on for far too long. But they are one of the most reputable groups out there today imo.

Now as far as the neteller bonus, which I opted out of immediately, why not just do something very simple? MAKE IT AN OPT-IN BONUS. Then there's no 'trapped' players, or tricked players. You have to ask for it to get it, therefore you know what you are getting yourself into. And if you don't want it, you don't have to opt out before you can start playing.
 

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
jpm said:
Now as far as the neteller bonus, which I opted out of immediately, why not just do something very simple? MAKE IT AN OPT-IN BONUS. QUOTE]

Good idea.

Stanford
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
clj7221 said:
The Majority of complaints on this board are mostly about FL casinos.What does that tell you?
And most of my posts are complaints against them to.Your best bet is not to play there. Try casino us that is one of the best casinos and if you ever have an issue with them they clear it up in no time.
I do not see Fl as a respectable casino. Unfortunately I have had to many experiences with them to know first hand that they do not respect there players. It took me a year and a half to get them to stop telemarketing me.
I disagree fully here. The message boards may have many complaints about many casinos, what they do not reflect are the positive experiences. Most players that have posted positive experiences are accused of being shills or whatever, so they typically do not post. As far as FL is concerned, this group is by far one of the most responsive groups out there. They have had a few burps and CS glitches periodically, but that's par for the course when you have an operation as large as theirs. It seems that your "telemarketing" experience was a pretty big burp.

There are many boards whose administrators do not police or check out the threads/postings. FL, like a number of other casinos, has been the victim of player fraud or blackmail. These players that threaten to post their fraudulent complaints, or chime in with their "they ripped me off too" crap know better than to post here. Many members here do not realize is that there is far more player fraud than there is casino fraud. When I spend time in the "pitch a bitch" section, the majority of my time is spent dealing with fraudulent claims. And I'm sure many of these scum players are posting their negative experiences all over cyberland.

Find me a FL complaint that was not resolved fairly.
 
Last edited:

clj7221

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
U.S.A.
I think your right. I am not saying they are a rouge casino.
They probably do have the largest player base of any casino. I think the problem is that they need a better way to communicate with each other.
And I never did have any problems with them that ever concerned a bonus issue or any money Issue. My biggest problem with them was the telemarketing situation and it took a year and a half to stop.

I have to give them credit and say I did find a new respect for that casino.
I am not sure if anyone here is from Florida but I wish you knew the horrible damage the hurricanes took on us. Hurricane Frances took out my back yard.
And besides the damage it did in this state it did damage on everyones emotions here in Florida.

Fl is the only casino I know if who is making a donation to help the hurricane Victims.
No other casino I play even mailed me saying this or even mailed there Florida players with there condolences about the hurricanes as Fl did.


jpm said:
It could be that they have the largest player base of any casino as well. Its a tough call. I do not think they are rogue casino, but they have some CSR issues that need to be resolved, as they've been going on for far too long. But they are one of the most reputable groups out there today imo.

Now as far as the neteller bonus, which I opted out of immediately, why not just do something very simple? MAKE IT AN OPT-IN BONUS. Then there's no 'trapped' players, or tricked players. You have to ask for it to get it, therefore you know what you are getting yourself into. And if you don't want it, you don't have to opt out before you can start playing.
 

DeMango

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Location
Englewood, FL USA
Greetings from the West Coast! Charley missed by 17 miles, Frances and Jeanne by under a 100 each. But nothing from FL! I am so fortunate considering the suffering down the street literally! But I am happy for the good report you give them. :thumbsup:
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
largeeyes said:
You'd have to deposit 1,000,000 to get it like you did here......
If you arrange the $100,000 bonus with one of the FL casinos, I will find the $1,000,000. :)
 

clj7221

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
U.S.A.
Thank G-d you did not get hit. I hope none of us have another hurricane again. These hurricanes make you wonder, The Lord did say he would never flood the earth again but he never said anything about hurricanes......

DeMango said:
Greetings from the West Coast! Charley missed by 17 miles, Frances and Jeanne by under a 100 each. But nothing from FL! I am so fortunate considering the suffering down the street literally! But I am happy for the good report you give them. :thumbsup:
 

MeganSpot

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Location
a land down under
Time to publish a couple of emails that put the facts surrounding this matter in a crystal clear light. To refresh memories paragraph 11 of Platinum Plays T+Cs states,

Wagering counts towards bonus requirements in the order that each bonus offer is taken up. i.e. wagering requirements need to be met for each bonus before subsequent bonuses may be withdrawn."

3 September
Hi Megan

When you make a cashin and there are bonus amounts included in the cashin,
the full wagering requirements of the bonuses will need to be met or else
bonuses will be forfeited from your cashin until the wagering of the
remaining bonuses has been met. In order to avoid abuse of promotions and
bonuses, it is the casinos policy to forfeit the largest bonus first as this
will have the greatest risk of abuse to the casino. You were short of the
minimum wagering to make your cashin and hence the largest bonus of $100 was
removed first. Bu removing the bonus and its related wagering from your
cashin, you had then met the minimum wagering for the remaining bonuses.

These are the casinos Terms & Conditions and they are publicized on the
website as well being presented to you when you register your account. You
did agree to these terms and unfortunately they are binding.

Please do not hesitate to contact us, should you have any further queries.

Kind Regards

Richard

Casino Desk Support

I queried this advice and received the following email from a different CSR the next day.

Hi Megan

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have reviewed your account and the bonus was indeed forfeited due to the
fact that you have not met the wagering requirements. When you signed up
with the casino you agreed that you would abide by the terms and conditions
of the casino and the terms and conditions clearly state that the biggest
bonus will be forfeited if the wagering requirements are not met.

Please note that it is the players responsibility to familiarise themselves
with the wagering requirements and the terms and conditions set out on the
website. We as the back office support for the casino are here to assist all
our players if they would need information with regards to how much they
need to wager and how much they still need to wager to be able to cash out
the bonuses.

We are here to assist you 24 hours a day and 365 days a week and we will be
glad to help you in future when you contact us to see if you have wagered
the correct amount or not. We will gladly assist you with regards to these
matters and every other query you have on your account.

We have launched some fantastic new games. Check it out!

King Cashalot Progressive Bonus Video Slot
Tunzamunni Progressive Reel Slot
French Roulette
Joker 10 Play Power Poker
Tally Ho Video Slot

Please contact us again, should you have any further queries.

Kind regards

Owen

Casino Support

After protesting to VPOps I received the following on 6 September.

Hi Megan

I have checked your account and the wagering requirements have been calculated correctly.

The wagering requirements on your Neteller bonus is Purchase + Bonus x 10. Not 110 times.

I have replied to your posting in all the forums you chose to post in.

Please, in future, avail yourself of all the Terms and Conditions pertaining to bonuses and wagering requirements.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

One could be really kind and accept that the original CSR was genuinely mistaken as to the correct T+Cs. The second email is undoubtedly a rehearsal of the company line and can not be said to be the product of mere inadvertence. After the third review and VPOps imprimatur one would have to believe in the fairies at the bottom of the garden to think this is all an innocent misunderstanding.

Adding to this mix we now have the stooge phoenix911 heaping praise on the very mention of Fortune Lounge (as mentioned in earlier post on WOL forum). That phoenix911 shares the same IP as VPOops casts an unmistakable light on this murky and wholly unedifying FL episode.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
UK
casinomeister said:
They have had a few burps and CS glitches periodically, but that's par for the course when you have an operation as large as theirs.
Casinomeister - I think clj7221 accepts he went too far, but I think you addressed his post in a way that avoids the issue here.

It's not a question of a few occasional glitches from FL CS. They clearly have in place a policy aimed at saving them money by having complex bonus conditions (which often confuse even their own CS) & then instantly snatching bonuses back if any mistake's made in wagering them. The Neteller 'bonus' is just the icing on this particular cake (it's suprising that VPOPs couldn't take the time to understand that the wr for the bonus is indeed 110 x the bonus).

The e-mails MeganSpot posted are obviously standard and you can only imagine how many players must fall foul of these traps.

'In order to avoid abuse of promotions and bonuses, it is the casinos policy to forfeit the largest bonus first as this will have the greatest risk of abuse to the casino.'

This, for instance, is completely incoherent. After giving the bonus how on earth is confiscating the bonus if the player's wagered the wrong amount avoiding abuse!? Presumably any 'scum players' out there with multiple accounts are going to be 100% sure to wager the right amount (after all, they'll know what to expect). The only people who'll be caught out by this are normal players not realising what they're getting themselves into.

It's also particularly crass of the casino in one of the e-mails to Megan to first tell him they've taken his money for good & then to promote the new games that can be played there!

The criticism of FL here isn't due to any vendetta from disgruntled players, it's simply because of the policy they've now had in place for the last few months. They had a good reputation previously & still hold on to that in some quarters, but unless they genuinely rethink their bonus policy they no longer deserve it.
 

Stanford

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Location
USA
Vesuvio said:
The e-mails MeganSpot posted are obviously standard and you can only imagine how many players must fall foul of these traps.

'In order to avoid abuse of promotions and bonuses, it is the casinos policy to forfeit the largest bonus first as this will have the greatest risk of abuse to the casino.'

This, for instance, is completely incoherent.
Fair comment. It is really nonsensical.

The Ts&Cs indicate that a bonus is earned on a FIFO (first in first out) basis. The "casinos policy" is at odds with there own Ts&Cs.

Megan, contact eCOGRA. Let us know how it goes.

Stanford
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
casinomeister said:
I disagree fully here. The message boards may have many complaints about many casinos, what they do not reflect are the positive experiences. Most players that have posted positive experiences are accused of being shills or whatever, so they typically do not post. As far as FL is concerned, this group is by far one of the most responsive groups out there. They have had a few burps and CS glitches periodically, but that's par for the course when you have an operation as large as theirs. It seems that your "telemarketing" experience was a pretty big burp.

There are many boards whose administrators do not police or check out the threads/postings. FL, like a number of other casinos, has been the victim of player fraud or blackmail. These players that threaten to post their fraudulent complaints, or chime in with their "they ripped me off too" crap know better than to post here. Many members here do not realize is that there is far more player fraud than there is casino fraud. When I spend time in the "pitch a bitch" section, the majority of my time is spent dealing with fraudulent claims. And I'm sure many of these scum players are posting their negative experiences all over cyberland.

Find me a FL complaint that was not resolved fairly.
Well Bryan,before I read all these posts,I thought I was alone in my condemnation of the FL Group. I had a horrendous time getting a cashin of $600 to neteller where the excuses ranged from them having sent me a check to they had slip-ups to using neteller for withdrawals. It took more than 4 months for that withdrawal. You asked to locate a complaint which was not resolved fairly. Well,the FL accounts including Platinum Play,7 Sultans,Royal Vegas,Vegas Palms and Vegas Villas for both me and my wife's accounts were closed with no reason given despite my demands for them. The only possible reason that I can think of for the closure was that we both had accounts at Royal Vegas,but we did inform them of this and there were no objections from them. In fact,we opened 2 different accounts because we were new to online gaming at that time and we honestly didnt know we should only have one account per household. So if you want a complaint not resolved fairly,this is one. They never replied. Since I didnt want to frequent their casinos anymore,I refrained from repeatedly asking them for reasons.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top