Piggs Peak?

mary

Dormant account
They used to be fine, but yep I'm seeing some problems with them popping up on fora.
 

rowmare

Dormant account
First I've heard anything bad about Pigg's Peak.

Would you please give a little more information?
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
sirius said:
Have you just added Piggs Peak to the reputable casinos? That's ridiculous.
:what:

I haven't heard diddly squat about any wrong doings or problems with them, and as you know I have a pretty good inkling what is going on out there. If you have a problem with them, or if you are aware of something evil, it's best you let me know what it is specifically instead of posting something as vague as you did.
 
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thesmacker

Most Annoying Forum Member of 2006
casinomeister said:
:what:

I haven't heard diddly squat about any wrong doings or problems with them, and as you know I have a pretty good inkling what is going on out there. If you have a problem with them, or if you are aware of something evil, it's best you let me know what it is specifically instead of posting something as vague as you did.
Heres a dousy:

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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Jeezus,

That was last April and I believe cleared up before I met up with them in May.

So who is having a problem with them besides Sirius? Speak up, I want to know. If there are any problems or unresolved issues spit them out. I want to hear about it.

By the way, the majority of those postings at WOL were just rants. Seven pages that could have been condensed in to one.

Topped off by my buddy Rainfall, sheesh!
 

sirius

Senior Member
That was just the tip of the iceberg. Do you really think this was the only player who was denied the bonus?? Later in that same thread were details of more recent problems. That's not the only thing they did either.

What about this thread:
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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Jesus, Sirius!

Do you seriously think I hang out in other peoples portals taking note of every player who complains about bonuses or whatever? If you have a gripe then give me a synopsis or send the players to me.

Since April, I've received over 650 complaints in the "Pitch a Bitch" section alone. This does not include players contacting me directly, or those who complain via the forum.

I have one complaint for Piggs Peak from October, from an underaged player who hit a royal flush. That's it.

I find that most of the complaints posted in forums are either blown out of proportion by all of the players chiming in, or it's player fraud. I'm not saying that this case is, but if you have a serious complaint, go to the source or to those who can bring you there.

I run this portal and not WOL's, nor Gonegambling's, Bet2gamble, etc. This is my turf and if players have a beef with this casino (or any) then they need to let me know, not send me off to cyberworld because I simply don't have the time.
 

rowmare

Dormant account
I read the threads you linked, Sirius.

It's a thread full of people defending Piggs Peak after you trash it. That just doesn't prove anything, except that you may be mistaken.
 

sirius

Senior Member
rowmare said:
I read the threads you linked, Sirius.

It's a thread full of people defending Piggs Peak after you trash it. That just doesn't prove anything, except that you may be mistaken.
You can't have read the threads I linked to (which one did you go to?). I noticed you are promoting the group on your site so I suppose I can understand why you are blind to the truth.

It's a similar problem with Casinomeister and even WizardofOdds (e.g. ClubDice group and Swiss group). They have been prepaid to advertise these casinos so they can't easily stop the agreement and are very reluctant to anyway. It would help if there was some discussion beforehand. Piggs Peak obviously shouldn't be among the reputable casinos. So many players have had problems with them if you read the threads and they aren't just unknown posters either. You should recognisee zrapture, Don Gambler, Dirk Dangerous, bart and curuso and others who recognise they are not reputable. I don't know how many people need to complain. The vast majority of players won't complain on any message board.
 

rowmare

Dormant account
sirius said:
You can't have read the threads I linked to (which one did you go to?). I noticed you are promoting the group on your site so I suppose I can understand why you are blind to the truth.

It's a similar problem with Casinomeister and even WizardofOdds (e.g. ClubDice group and Swiss group). They have been prepaid to advertise these casinos so they can't easily stop the agreement and are very reluctant to anyway. It would help if there was some discussion beforehand. Piggs Peak obviously shouldn't be among the reputable casinos. So many players have had problems with them if you read the threads and they aren't just unknown posters either. You should recognisee zrapture, Don Gambler, Dirk Dangerous, bart and curuso and others who recognise they are not reputable. I don't know how many people need to complain. The vast majority of players won't complain on any message board.
Prepaid? You couldn't be further from the truth. There is no prepaid agreement, we can remove the banners at will, with the speed of an FTP upload, and I certainly remove the banners from any casino which has proven to be less than 100% reputable, honest and safe to bet at. My responsibility is to the players alone, and to the best of my knowledge, that is the attitude of the casinos who are presented on my pages.

That is why I read the forums, and why I am reading this one right now, and will be looking into it personally.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
sirius said:
It's a similar problem with Casinomeister and even WizardofOdds (e.g. ClubDice group and Swiss group). They have been prepaid to advertise these casinos so they can't easily stop the agreement and are very reluctant to anyway.
That's a load of crap, and you know it. For some reason you have a chip on your shoulder and you want me to knock it off. I don't play these games.

The majority of players who have problems come to me, and I'm sure you are very aware of this fact. The ones who don't are usually ones who either a) don't know about this site or b) are fraudsters.

You also know damn well that I've dropped casinos from this site. Look what happened to the Grand Banks crew. I was probably the first to go on record about their exploits.

What I would like to know, what gives? What bee has all of the sudden gotten under your bonnet? You are one of the oldtimers here. To lambast me like this is a bit out of character. What's up with that?

Or are you just trying to start an argument?
 

sirius

Senior Member
casinomeister said:
That's a load of crap, and you know it. For some reason you have a chip on your shoulder and you want me to knock it off. I don't play these games.

The majority of players who have problems come to me, and I'm sure you are very aware of this fact. The ones who don't are usually ones who either a) don't know about this site or b) are fraudsters.

You also know damn well that I've dropped casinos from this site. Look what happened to the Grand Banks crew. I was probably the first to go on record about their exploits.

What I would like to know, what gives? What bee has all of the sudden gotten under your bonnet? You are one of the oldtimers here. To lambast me like this is a bit out of character. What's up with that?

Or are you just trying to start an argument?
I wasn't trying to start an argument. It's unusual you mentioned Grand Banks because I don't even remember when you stopped recommending them (only Black Widow). I think it was only when you met some guy from the group quite recently at a conference that they all got rogued so why do you refer to them as the 'Grand Banks crew'. They were always slow paying. I was complaining about their slow-pay at the beginning when they started. They advertised here for ages though. The only thing I remember is you removing Black Widow for a high roller bonus problem but you didn't have much choice. It seemed to take months to do so though and here is a thread that mentioned something about it: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187&page=1&pp=10

The only reason I remember this was I couldn't understand why you still had Grand Banks in the reputable list when they were in the same casino group! You said something about them having different management. I suppose the reason you didn't blacklist Grand Banks too at the same time was that you still had some advertising to do for them. That's the problem I mentioned and it isn't a load of crap. I didn't realise at that time they were paying to be on that list.

Also, how do you know most players who have a problem come to you?

P.S. rowmare, I wasn't referring to you in that paragraph. I know you don't have prepaid advertising but that is how Casinomeister works. In case you didn't know, all the casinos in the reputable list here have paid for advertising.
 

mary

Dormant account
Piggs Peak aff program uses software that might be shaving stats. There's recent posts at Casino Affiliate Programs.

That's all I know.
 

rowmare

Dormant account
sirius said:
P.S. rowmare, I wasn't referring to you in that paragraph. I know you don't have prepaid advertising but that is how Casinomeister works. In case you didn't know, all the casinos in the reputable list here have paid for advertising.
:eek2: ...... oh ........
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Gee thanks Sirius for turning my forum into a pissing contest:

I wasn't trying to start an argument. It's unusual you mentioned Grand Banks because I don't even remember when you stopped recommending them (only Black Widow). I think it was only when you met some guy from the group quite recently at a conference that they all got rogued so why do you refer to them as the 'Grand Banks crew'. They were always slow paying. I was complaining about their slow-pay at the beginning when they started. They advertised here for ages though. The only thing I remember is you removing Black Widow for a high roller bonus problem but you didn't have much choice...
Advertising for ages is relative. It was for about 1.5 years. Black Widow was rogued, seriously rogued in November 2002 http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/blackwidow.html

Since GB or Sterling House was not involved in this, I did not think it was fair to include them in this situation. This was made clear a number of times.

After meeting with Brian Woods and he explained the reasonings behind the slow payments where they all placed in the rogue section. You should know this since I made this perfectly clear a number of times.

The only reason I remember this was I couldn't understand why you still had Grand Banks in the reputable list when they were in the same casino group! You said something about them having different management. I suppose the reason you didn't blacklist Grand Banks too at the same time was that you still had some advertising to do for them. That's the problem I mentioned and it isn't a load of crap. I didn't realise at that time they were paying to be on that list.
Gee, I didn't know you were privy to all the mechanics that make Casinomeister work. Before you start supposing and assuming things, why don't you ask me why and how casinos get listed?

Also, how do you know most players who have a problem come to you?.
Mainly from my contacts with software providers and the casino operators themselves. When a casino fails for instance, I'll receive the complaints I get - I compare this with the list of players owed money via the software provider to see if there are any stragglers, and it's usually pretty damn close. I also get a lot of referals from the IGC (the real IGC) and other casino groups.

Players shouldn't have to come to me, but I make myself available if and when they do. I don't get paid to do it, and I do it on my own time. Should I start referring them to you?

P.S. rowmare, I wasn't referring to you in that paragraph. I know you don't have prepaid advertising but that is how Casinomeister works. In case you didn't know, all the casinos in the reputable list here have paid for advertising.?.
Again, good going at dissing me in my own forum with misinformation. Since you seem to know so well how advertising works here, how about explaining it in detail to everyone. What exact agreements do I have with these casinos, what are the expectations, and what is the price?

I'd really like to know.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Piggs Peak aff program uses software that might be shaving stats.
I don't think they're shaving. But their stats definitely leave something to be desired, the site is not exactly the most reliable in terms of updates.
 

sirius

Senior Member
casinomeister said:
Since you seem to know so well how advertising works here, how about explaining it in detail to everyone. What exact agreements do I have with these casinos, what are the expectations, and what is the price?

I'd really like to know.
Well I don't know how it works. All I know is that you get paid to advertise them for a certain time and they disappear off the reputable list when the advertising campaign stops or isn't renewed. I also heard you meet with them before you start advertising them and they have to abide by certain rules of conduct but it doesn't make it easy for you to remove them from the list.
 

rowmare

Dormant account
sirius said:
Well I don't know how it works. All I know is that you get paid to advertise them for a certain time and they disappear off the reputable list when the advertising campaign stops or isn't renewed. I also heard you meet with them before you start advertising them and they have to abide by certain rules of conduct but it doesn't make it easy for you to remove them from the list.
I think the assumption that Casinomeister would leave a Casino's advertisements on his pages as a recommended casino if there were any solid evidence that they may be less than reputable is rediculous.

What is more important, an outstanding reputation for honesty in the industry (which the meister has) or one measly contract?

In terms of money, the reputation is far more valuable than advertising any single casino or casino group.
 

sirius

Senior Member
I do not accept advertising from just any casino.
How do I choose who is presented here?

They must provide rapid response to customer support queries - telephone, live chat or email response - from thoughtful, well informed CSR's and support staff available 24/7.
They must adhere to their own posted payment processing schedule
They must only use seals, banners, logos, etc. to which they are entitled.
They must have no affiliation with "fake" players' advocacy groups.
They must not use spam as a marketing tool.
They must be willing to divulge information about their business.
They must have a clean history of fairness towards their customers.
They must be licensed in a jurisdiction that offers gambling licenses.
In most cases, I will meet face to face with the persons managing the casino before it's listed on this site.
That is from casinomeister. Piggs Peak haven't got a clean history. Below is from Wizard of odds:

Effective April 2, 2003, all advertisers on this site are personally chosen and endorsed by me. Only casinos I trust will have a place here. I feel confident that all casinos advertising on this site are safe places to put your money. In addition if you play at any casino after clicking through a banner on my site and a dispute results I will help as an artbitrator. Following are my standards for both the casino and the player.

What is expected of the casino:

The casino will abide by its own rules.
The casino will pay players in a timely manner.
The casino will respond to player inquiries in a timely manner.
The casino will cooperate with my arbitration in the event of a dispute. If I find in the player's favor the casino will pay the player or its ad will removed.
What is expected of the player:

The player will carefully read and abide by casino rules.
The player will supply any requested documents.
The player will act in good faith. It is fine to play for a bonus but the player will not attempt to defraud the casino.
The player will try to resolve a dispute on his own before asking for my help.
Here are the changes he made this year:

Effective April 2, 2003, all advertisers on this site are personally chosen and endorsed by me. Only casinos I trust will have a place here. I feel confident that all casinos advertising on this site are safe places to put your money. In addition if you play at any casino after clicking through a banner on my site and a dispute results I will help as an artbitrator. Following are my standards for both the casino and the player for players who played after clicking through a banner on this site.

What is expected of the casino:

The casino will abide by its own rules.
The casino will pay players in a timely manner.
The casino will respond to player inquiries in a timely manner.
The casino will cooperate with my arbitration in the event of a dispute. If I find in the player's favor the casino will pay the player or its ad will be removed.
The casino may stop a player from future bonuses but may not retroactively punish a player for past alleged bonus abuse. It is unacceptable to seize exisiting funds, whether deposits, earned bonuses, or winnings for reasons of bonus abuse. If the player has partially completed play towards a bonus and the casino deems the player a bonus abuser the player should be paid the bonus on a pro-rata basis according to play completed.

What is expected of the player:

The player will carefully read and abide by casino rules.
The player will supply any requested documents.
The player will act in good faith. It is fine to play for a bonus but the player will not attempt to defraud the casino.
The player will try to resolve a dispute on his own before asking for my help.
Wizard isn't actually genuinely interested in any of this and his attitude has been appalling. It seems ok now to advertise casinos that break his rules as long as the players don't click on his links. I've explained to him that Club Dice don't resolve the problem or even reply to me and when I contacted him months ago (when he advertised them) and he didn't seem at all interested in resolving it and also have since given him more evidence of problems with other players which he completely dismisses.

I also contacted Club Dice again recently and only got a reply saying I would get a response shorty but never have. This was what Wizard wrote when I contacted him again recently. It was very shortly before he put the Club Dice ads back up but I had no idea he was about to put them back up on his site (he probably had already been paid for the ads)

I just wrote to them about this, asking that they either work this out with you or explain their side of this to me. Just so there are no surprises I may put their banner back up soon but will take it down again if I find they were in error in this situation.
I kept sending him more evidence in emails of problems with other players too but he always replied with one line emails (I am copying a few below):

You are my only indirect complaint. Considering they are a top casino the small level of bad publicity I find par for the course.
Club Dice said they couldn't get into details but that you have a net
loss gambling and are trying to cash out bonuses. They said they
alerted customer support to explain this to you if you write. Since
you evidently (didn't) click through my banner I can only go so far with this.
and (I also asked him to add my link on his site):

They told me if you wrote to them they would respond. I only offer dispute resolution if players click through a banner on my site, unless there is obvious fraud involved. This seems to me more of a misunderstanding somewhere. Can you remind me the URL for your site.
Again, they said if you wrote they would try to explain their side of this.
Lastly:

If you don't like my attitude then just leave me and my site alone.

Michael Shackleford

----- Original Message -----
To: Michael Shackleford
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Club Dice Casino


There is a new casino from the group now. I can't remember the name.

Here is more evidence that they can't be trusted:
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I am still to hear from them and your attitude isn't helpful either.
They've just never replied to any of my emails and I tried sorting it
out many times before I contacted you months ago.

Off topic, but before you started promoting the casinos in the Swiss
group, didn't you realise there was an incident where they voided
thousands of dollars jsut because a player played a bit of roulette?
The terms were very misleading:
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It wasn't surprising when they were involved with this later on:
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