Pharaohs Casino - new software, stupid terms

Nifty29

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Hey Gang

Pharaohs casino have changed software from BossMedia to MG......and their signup bonus terms are just plain stupid.

Keep in mind that the EzBonus system is used. :cool:

1. Any new player claiming the 100% Welcome Bonus (maximum bonus amount as advertised on the homepage) effectively accepts these terms and conditions.
To be eligible to receive the welcome bonus a player must have NOT received a Welcome Bonus from and casino operated by Naden which are on the following list:
Click here.
Players may not make a cash-in of any kind prior to receiving their Welcome Bonus. If a player performs a cash-in, then the Welcome Bonus is void.
Players need to wager the Welcome Bonus that they qualify for once through to be eligible.
Withdrawal requests before the wagering requirements of the Welcome Bonus have been met will be rejected until such time as the wagering requirements have been satisfied.
Players must stake at least 40 times the value of their Welcome Bonus prior to cashing in.
Players must also make a minimum of 250 bets before withdrawal request is accepted.
Players of Russian, Danish, Israeli and British origin are welcome at our casino. We regret however that due to promotional abuse by a large number of players originating from Russia, Denmark, Israel and the UK the wagering requirement is at least 50 times the value of their Welcome Bonus prior to cashing in.
The wagering contribution percentages for the 40x play-through requirement is different based on the game type played as follows:
Slots and Parlor Games - 100%
Table Poker, Roulette - 25%
Video Poker, Casino War - 5%
All versions of Blackjack, Power Poker, Craps, Baccarat, Sicbo, Progressive Slots and Games, Red Dog, Paigow Poker, All Aces and Jacks or Better Video Poker - 0%
Bets made in the gamble game feature in all slot games do not count towards the Welcome Bonus System play-through.
Players may win real cash account credits with Welcome Bonus credits; however, Welcome Bonus credits must be played through in accordance with the Welcome Bonus System wagering requirements before cashing-in.
Our Welcome Bonus offer is available only to first time Real purchasing players who register at the Casino.
The Casino will be the sole judge of the 100% Welcome Bonus. We reserve the right, exercisable in its sole discretion to discontinue or cancel or change this offer at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice.
Players must make a qualified purchase and wager it one time on any game within 72 hours of opening their real account to be eligible for the 100% Welcome Bonus.


** So , even though your bonus may in fact be cleared into your cash account (after wagering 30x pre the ezbonus system), you will still have to wager it another 10x and go into playcheck etc etc to make sure you have met it etc etc.

It just doesnt make sense! :mad:
 
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Nifty29

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Just had an interesting chat with their support, given I was sent an email stating there was a no-deposit bonus in my account.......looks like the EzBonus system may be changing.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
Welcome to Casino support live help, one moment please for world-class service
Jason: Hi there and thank you for using our Live Chat facility! Allow me to introduce myself

as your chat representative...
Jason: will be assisting you today.
Jason: How can we provide you with world-class service?
Me: Hi Jason. I was sent an email stating my account has been migrated, and a non-deposit

bonus would be in my account, however nothing has appeared
Jason: I am looking into this Timothy, this Promotional bonus is only for VIp's

unfortunately, and I am awaiting the list for our VIp's so that I can see if they have been

credited.
Me: OK.
Me: Do you know why this was stated in the email?
Jason: It was just a default mailer that was sent to all the players. I am sorry for the

misunderstanding.
Me: OK. Its not a good start - someone should have proof-read the emails I think.
Me: Lets hope things are smoother from this point
Jason: I agree with you, and this is very isolated, I do apologize once again for this.
Me: Its OK. You may also want to feedback that the signup bonus should be 30xBonus as per

your EzBonus system, so that when it has all transferred to the cash account it can be

withdrawn - it might save a lot of problems.
Jason: Unfortuntely with the Migration, the signup bonus requirement has gone to 40x, as per

our bonus system.
Me: OK - so the bonus wont transfer until the wagering has reached 40x? Every other MG

casino transfers after 30x, released in $10 increments.
Jason: We have changed all our MG requirements to 40x though, as I am sure that the rest of

the MG Casinos have or will be doing within the next months.
Me: Oh OK - thanks Jason that is interesting information. Enjoy your day!
Jason: Thank you for being so understanding.
Jason: Is there anything further I can assist you with?
Me: My pleasure.
Me: No thanks - bye!
 

Zoozie

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It is sad more MG casinos are bending the EZ bonuses just adding more fuel to the already raging bonus confusion going on. The whole bonus system with the 10$ bonus conversion rate does not make sense. The bonus and cash balance should be merged and instead a single wagering bar (like Crypto) should be added.
 

chuchu59

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Does this also mean that once the welcome bonus is credited to the bonus account no withdrawals can be made until the bonuses are fully released into the main account?
 

liquuid_fusion

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Some of you may recall I won a big jackpot at Pharaohs a couple of months ago.

The new MG terms here are 50*B for UK players, or 1000*B if I want to play VP (my favourite casino game). I definately won't be playing here anymore!! :eek2:
 

vinylweatherman

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They are DELIBERATELY adding confusion where they HAVE THE NECESSARY SOFTWARE OPTIONS.

EZBonus is operator configurable, and they clearly know this as they have altered the defaults for non-slot games. Casino Action tried out a 50x WR, and altered the EZBonus conversion rate to match. Pharaohs can do this, but seem to like the idea of "screwing" hapless players who make 30x and see everything as withdrawable, but forget that an extra 10x or 20x is needed.

WTF is all this about British players being a bunch of "abusers":mad:

What an effing insult - WE are the country who has supported the industry the most, providing an environment for operating companies to float on a major stock exchange, introducing regulation as an example to those countries that would rather introduce prohibition, and UK players have one of the easiest methods of depositing and withdrawing.

What HAS arisen in the UK is FRAUD, due to loopholes in the identity systems (soon to be plugged), this has NOTHING to do with "promotional abuse", it is players borrowing identities and opening multiple accounts, and it is irrelevant whether they have to wager 40x or 50x - they still won't get paid when caught.

The reference to "Naden" in the terms indicates this is a Playshare "White Label" casino, and it may be that anyone who has taken the SUB at Grand Mondial or Playshare will not be eligible (even if not on the list).

We still have not been told what this "Naden" entity is, but since they use it, we should be; even though Playshare run the support.


Since we Brits abuse all their promotions, here is how we MIGHT do it:D


1) Place entire bankroll on even money bet.

2) if win, complete WR at 0.09 per spin on Tally Ho (96%), or could use Sonic Boom at 0.05 x 2 coins (swap between the two if one looks cold).

(2) will take care of the 250 bets required, and spins can be tallied by the stats counter (under "%" to the left of the coin size in the game) to ensure not to get screwed by the 40x and 50x sneaky WR while EZBonus runs at 30x


They could STILL void winnings with the "FU Clause", so the need to boost the WR is AGAIN irrelevant and unnecessary, but will lead to more justification for players to get paid using the above.

PS - the above works for ALL nationalities, not just Danes, Russians, Israelis and Brits as the casino would have you believe:D
 
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Zoozie

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1) Place entire bankroll on even money bet.

I suggest taking higher than even bet, like #25-36 at roulette etc which pays 3 times money back. If you have the guts and can handle the
variance, go for a more rare event. I only have the guts for this 33% even. Missing 10 times in a row is not fun :)

This is better total EV and I have seen T&C stating 'doubling' (or something like that) balance on first bet. which you are not.
 

Nifty29

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Thanks for the all the replies peeps :)

I like Zoozie's idea of the bar gauge showing the % of WR met......but then again I guess that probably makes sense and simplifies things, so MG are unlikely to introduce it :cool:

The CSR I chatted to was implying that their EzBonus system actually works on 40x not 30x, so $10 would be released every $400 in wagers. I didnt know they could actually do that??

Oh Yeah - when you download and install the casino, the icon says 'Pharoahs Casinos', which clearly isnt the correct name as pointed out by Grandmaster. You would think someone would have double-checked those kinds of things.
 
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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
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Location
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Thanks for the all the replies peeps :)

I like Zoozie's idea of the bar gauge showing the % of WR met......but then again I guess that probably makes sense and simplifies things, so MG are unlikely to introduce it :cool:

The CSR I chatted to was implying that their EzBonus system actually works on 40x not 30x, so $10 would be released every $400 in wagers. I didnt know they could actually do that??

Oh Yeah - when you download and install the casino, the icon says 'Pharoahs Casinos', which clearly isnt the correct name as pointed out by Grandmaster. You would think someone would have double-checked those kinds of things.

If so, this is how MG intended operators to run adjustments to defaults. They should also be adjusting the accounts registered from the 4 "thieving" nations to run at 50x - THIS CAN ALSO BE DONE. Jackpot Factory set the EZBonus to work on 15x instead of 30x once you are invited to the VIP Lounge. Casino Action have several tiers, with only 10x for Platinum players, down to at least 30x for new players. This has been moved to 50x (and no withdrawal till full WR met) in the past to combat "clever" players who hit them when EZBonus first came out (even money bet and immediate withdrawal on winning with loss of bonus).

We are still waiting for the rep to explain "Naden" to us:confused: Is it a verb, a noun, a proper noun, or even a registered trademark of some shady entity that does not want to be associated with casinos, but still wants the profits through a subcontracting arrangement that runs similar to an affiliate deal (x% of player losses).
 

GrandMaster

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Oh Yeah - when you download and install the casino, the icon says 'Pharoahs Casinos', which clearly isnt the correct name as pointed out by Grandmaster. You would think someone would have double-checked those kinds of things.
There is also "The Gaming License, that governs and defines the use of the casino, through the internet portal www. .com , is held by Naden and regulated by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission." in http://www.pharaohscasino.com/About_Us.aspx. It looks very sloppy.
 

KasinoKing

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To be honest, I'm totally amazed that the 'EZ Bonus' system lasted as long as it did.
Right from the start it was way too player friendly - or to be more precise - way too ruthless bonus abuser friendly.

By allowing all games to be played at any stakes the casinos were allowing abusers to go straight for the "big bet double up and grind out WR"

They are trying to combat this - but as per usual they have totally cocked it up again and are now punishing the very players they want to keep (genuine 'normal gamblers') while leaving the door open to the abusers still.
Increasing the WR to x40 and having a minimum number of hands played will have very little effect on abusers, but is a real turn off for everyone else.

The casinos are trying to get the best of both worlds - they want the abusers to do the 'big double' and lose, or if they win they're trying to stop them profiting with other, often all too vague, T&C's. This is the very cause of the majority of 'bonus abuse' complaints.

If they really wanted to stop the abusers the solution is incredibly simple - reduce the betting limits on low-edge games when there are bonus chips in the account to prevent the classic abuse.
e.g. BlackJack $10/hand max, Roulette $50 table limit, etc...

I just wish they would hurry up & realise this before ALL MG bonuses become un-playable for genuine players. :(

Just my 2c ;)
 

shjcard

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Played there, lost my deposit before the non arrival of bonus. Lost it on Harvey's had 10 spins then it gave me another 10 spins won $2. One to avoid methinks. On a positive note played Arthurian last week and doubled my deposit and got my withdrawal in record time, best yet.
 

Pinababy69

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Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Ahh yes, one of the Playshare White Labels that are supposed to be so good for the industry, and reach far and wide into markets that would be otherwise unreachable. The wording was something to that effect I think. At least this one is identifiable as Playshare, that's a start.

So, the wagering requirements are 40X now? They have the percentage of play that counts towards each game clearly listed, and I'm assuming they have their standard and bonus T&C's listed? What I'm still waiting for is an answer to this little gem that is on all Playshare/Grand Mondial/Naden sites:

Grand Mondial audits cash-ins to determine if winnings are a result of promotion abuse. It is possible for promotion abuse to occur even though wagering is compliant with the standard terms and conditions and bonus system rules. If promotion abuse is identified, then Grand Mondial reserves the right at managements discretion to take the following action(s) against the abusive player:

A) may be banned from receiving or redeeming further promotions
B) may be banned from play in the casino
B) may have account terminated with immediate effect
C) Player information forwarded to a central database resulting in players being barred from receiving bonuses at any other casinos.
D) Cash-ins may be denied, reversed and/or considered void. In such cases, only original purchase amount may be allowed for withdrawal.

This was originally posted by Sdaddy in the Bonus Issues Complaints forum on August 15, 2007 AND he PM'd the rep asking for an answer/clarification of this particular clause. Big surprise, no answer. Max Wright (CEO of Playshare) was last here on September 10th, and Mario was last here on September 21st. No reply or clarification from either of them.

It is possible for promotion abuse to occur even though wagering is compliant with the standard T&C's, and the bonus T&C's? WTF does that mean? So you can follow their rules down to the letter, but still be accused of promotion abuse? And have your winnings confiscated? 40X wagering is bad enough, a clause like this is total bullshit, IMO.

Max? Mario? Anyone?
 

EasyRhino

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I suggest taking higher than even bet, like #25-36 at roulette etc...
Yep, that's the perverse thing about trying to goose an sticky (sorry, phantom) type bonus, an even riskier strategy would probably go unnoticed by the casino operator. Hell, just do a couple of $50 spins on a slot machine.
 

lojo

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Ahh yes, one of the Playshare White Labels that are supposed to be so good for the industry, and reach far and wide into markets that would be otherwise unreachable. The wording was something to that effect I think. At least this one is identifiable as Playshare, that's a start.

So, the wagering requirements are 40X now? They have the percentage of play that counts towards each game clearly listed, and I'm assuming they have their standard and bonus T&C's listed? What I'm still waiting for is an answer to this little gem that is on all Playshare/Grand Mondial/Naden sites:



This was originally posted by Sdaddy in the Bonus Issues Complaints forum on August 15, 2007 AND he PM'd the rep asking for an answer/clarification of this particular clause. Big surprise, no answer. Max Wright (CEO of Playshare) was last here on September 10th, and Mario was last here on September 21st. No reply or clarification from either of them.

It is possible for promotion abuse to occur even though wagering is compliant with the standard T&C's, and the bonus T&C's? WTF does that mean? So you can follow their rules down to the letter, but still be accused of promotion abuse? And have your winnings confiscated? 40X wagering is bad enough, a clause like this is total bullshit, IMO.

Max? Mario? Anyone?

Personally, I'm boycotting playshare until this is answered. I'm not calling a boycott as GM is accredited, I'm just saying what I'm doing. They have an opportunity with sdaddy's invitation to comment and clarify to clear the air, and if they want feedback on what players would consider fair terms they can get it right here.

I have a stupid question, maybe an experienced bonus player can help me wrap my head around this...

If the WR is 40x why don't they just pay 1/40th of what I win on a wager until the WR are done? Isn't that the same thing?
 

aka23

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The reference to "Naden" in the terms indicates this is a Playshare "White Label" casino, and it may be that anyone who has taken the SUB at Grand Mondial or Playshare will not be eligible (even if not on the list).
Yes... In another thread, I believe a Playshare rep mentioned that Pharoah's would be switching over on October 1st. I am disappointed with these former Boss casinos, like Player's Club and Pharoah's, are becoming Playshare white labels.
 

aka23

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So, the wagering requirements are 40X now? They have the percentage of play that counts towards each game clearly listed, and I'm assuming they have their standard and bonus T&C's listed? What I'm still waiting for is an answer to this little gem that is on all Playshare/Grand Mondial/Naden sites:
The wagering is only 40x with the Playshare group. They made the change a couple months ago.
 

Mario

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Hi everyone,

Glad to see that everyone is still at it and hope everyone is well.

So lets get cracking on this issue.

To give you guys a bit of a run down of how this all works is as follow:

The acquisition offers are set at 40 times or 50 times WR and all other offers are set at 30 times as per the bonus systems Terms and Conditions or as you like to call it EZBonus.

The bonus system allows $10 to move over from your bonus account to your cash account as soon as when you have wagered depending on the level of the WR 400, 500, or 300 wagers.

As the acquisition offers are set on 40 or 50 times you will need to wager 400 wagers or 500 wagers to move $10 to your cash account.

Retention offers or non acquisition offers are set to 30 times which means that you need to wager 300 wagers to move $10 to your cash account.

Yes weve been having issues in regards to the actual setup of the system but this is slowly but surely been ironed out so that the system will not allow you to cash-in before you have met the required amount of WR.

We do suspect that the reason why players are able to cash-in before they have met the WR is due to the fact that a player must bet a minimum 250 bets and once this was reached it will allow the player to withdraw.

However we are going to remove this as this is not necessarily something what we are going to enforce too much and rather just ensure that the player has met the WR than the amount of bets placed.

So this Terms should be removed more than likely across all brand if not we will simply just set that amount much higher on the actual system which in turn will make no effect on the player at all or on the WR.

In regards to the High Risk countries nothing is meant in regards to all UK players but it has become more and more evident that UK players are trying and making use of promotional abuse tactics in order to simply put bypass or abuse the Terms and Conditions.

Just to make it quite clear in that we will not confiscate any winnings due to this but no further promotional offer will be send to these categorized players.

Players who plays as normal and dont make use of any bonus abuse tactics will still receive promotional offers as per normal and all other offers are set at 30 times except the acquisition offers.

Do note that on the EZBonus system for all non acquisition offers you are able to forfeit the bonus at anytime which means that you are able to cash-in even if youve still got a bonus balance in your account, all what will happen is that you will loose the bonus amount what is still in your account.

Hope this helps a bit in regards to the EZBonus and if there is anything else that you wish to discuss do not hesitate to contact me.

Best Regards
Mario

PlayShare Group Representative
 

Mario

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Hi there,

Just to clarify in that yes this casino is a White Label casino but this does not exclude you from receiving a sign-on bonus at Grand Mondial and or CasinoShare.

The only thing is you are not able to get a multiple sign-on bonuses on more than one White Label casinos.

Thanks
Mario
PlayShare Group Representative
 

KasinoKing

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Mario, thanks for your very comprehensive reply! :thumbsup:

However:-
In regards to the High Risk countries nothing is meant in regards to all UK players but it has become more and more evident that UK players are trying and making use of promotional abuse tactics in order to simply put bypass or abuse the Terms and Conditions.

Players who plays as normal and don’t make use of any bonus abuse tactics will still receive promotional offers as per normal and all other offers are set at 30 times except the acquisition offers.

a) I don't see how you can single out UK players (or any other individual country) - 'bonus abusers' in any location will play bonuses in the best possible way to try to maximise their winnings.

b) Do you not agree that it would be FAR more sensible for the casinos to get the software set up so that it is impossible for players to make 'undesirable' bets? Or if that's not practical, spell out in the T&C's exactly what is not allowed?

e.g. You could say: "In meeting the Wagering Requirements for any bonus, players are not permitted to wager more than 25% of their total bankroll on a single bet, except when their total bank is less than 50 credits (when no restrictions shall apply)."

Fortune Lounge have already included a similar type of term.

I really would appreciate a response to point 'b' at least.

Thanks.
KK
 

liquuid_fusion

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Agreed. If you are going to refer to "abuse tactics" in your T&Cs, you need to spell out exactly what these are. Otherwise you could end up saying that anyone that wins with a bonus is somehow abusing it, as is the case with most rogue casinos!
 

Nifty29

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Turn right, then right. then right again
Agreed. If you are going to refer to "abuse tactics" in your T&Cs, you need to spell out exactly what these are. Otherwise you could end up saying that anyone that wins with a bonus is somehow abusing it, as is the case with most rogue casinos!

Maybe the thinking is that if they spell them out, then players might avoid using them and the security department wouldnt get to deny any cashins (which wouldnt be any fun at all would it??)
:rolleyes:
 
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