People STOP Playing At Casinos that forces you to send in


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Mar 15, 2003
your personal information, in order to get PAID!!! This is involation of your Constitutional Rights To Privacy Protection. Neteller forces you to Input your Social Security Number inorder to open an Account. They then peek into your credit files to see who you are. What is Happening here in America? I thought the Constitution was the Law of the Land. And not some Patroit Act bill that the CFR has forced on us and making us believe We have to Give up Our Rights for Protection. I won't be dealing with no more Casinos that requires you to send in personal information. Just Read the Patroit Act II below. And tell me if this still AMERIKA!

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first Patriot Act's powers by saying that President Bush was seizing dictatorial control.

On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document consisted of a 33-page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87-page bill.

*Note: On February 10, 2003 I discovered that not only was there a house version that had been covertly brought to Hastert, but that many provisions of the now public Patriot Act II had already been introduced as pork barrel riders on Senate Bill S. 22. Dozens of subsections and even the titles of the subsections are identical to those in the House version. This is very important because it catches the Justice Department in a bald-faced lie. The Justice Department claimed that the secret legislation brought into the House was only for study, and that at this time there was no intention to try and pass it. Now upon reading S. 22, it is clear that the leadership of the Senate is fully aware of the Patriot Act II, and have passed these riders out of their committees into the full bill. I spent two hours scanning through S. 22 and, let me tell you, it is a nightmare for anyone who loves liberty. It even contains the Our Lady of Peace Act that registers all gun owners. It bans the private sale of all firearms, creates a Federal ballistics database, and much more.

There are other bills in the Senate that grant the Federal government sweeping powers. S.45 states in section one that the office for State and local government coordination for Homeland Security will no longer just oversee, but that now local cities critical functions will be headed by a Federal director. On Tuesday, February 11th, we noted a story in The Times-Picayune with the headline: Nagin announces major overhaul of City Hall --New Homeland Security office to oversee cops, firemen, emergency agency. The Federal power-grab taking place is widespread and all Americans must mobilize to resist it.

Another interesting bill is S. 16. S. 16 is a smorgasbord of Federal funding and control over local police departments and needs to be examined closely.

S. 89, The Universal National Service Act of 2003 is the hallmark of an authoritarian society. The description of the bill is, "To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." We have looked at some of the programs that the Federal government has already been setting up for service here in the "homeland" and they include East German-style tattletale squads of every type, which are just basically a super TIPS program. The nightmare goes on and on. Check it out for yourself.

The Patriot Act II bill itself is stamped "Confidential -Not for Distribution." Upon reading the analysis and bill, I was stunned by the scientifically crafted tyranny contained in the legislation. The Justice Department Office of Legislative Affairs admits that they had indeed covertly transmitted a copy of the legislation to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, (R-Il) and the Vice President of the United States, Dick Cheney as well as the executive heads of federal law enforcement agencies.

It is important to note that no member of Congress was allowed to see the first Patriot Act before its passage, and that no debate was tolerate by the House and Senate leadership. The intentions of the White House and Speaker Hastert concerning Patriot Act II appear to be a carbon copy replay of the events that led to the unprecedented passage of the first Patriot Act.

There are two glaring areas that need to be looked at concerning this new legislation:

1. The secretive tactics being used by the White House and Speaker Hastert to keep even the existence of this legislation secret would be more at home in Communist China than in the United States. The fact that Dick Cheney publicly managed the steamroller passage of the first Patriot Act, insuring that no one was allowed to read it and publicly threatening members of Congress that if they didnt vote in favor of it that they would be blamed for the next terrorist attack, is by the White Houses own definition terrorism. The move to clandestinely craft and then bully passage of any legislation by the Executive Branch is clearly an impeachable offence.

2. The second Patriot Act is a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganizes the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command. The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship.

I challenge all Americans to study the new Patriot Act and to compare it to the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. Ninety percent of the act has nothing to do with terrorism and is instead a giant Federal power-grab with tentacles reaching into every facet of our society. It strips American citizens of all of their rights and grants the government and its private agents total immunity.

Here is a quick thumbnail sketch of just some of the draconian measures encapsulated within this tyrannical legislation:

SECTION 501 (Expatriation of Terrorists) expands the Bush administrations enemy combatant definition to all American citizens who may have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Section 802 is the new definition of domestic terrorism, and the definition is any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.) Section 501 of the second Patriot Act directly connects to Section 125 of the same act. The Justice Department boldly claims that the incredibly broad Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act isnt broad enough and that a new, unlimited definition of terrorism is needed.

Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person had inferred from conduct that they were not a US citizen. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the enemy combatant terrorist designation.

SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.

SECTION 301 and 306 (Terrorist Identification Database) set up a national database of suspected terrorists and radically expand the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as terrorist. These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime, and orders State governments to collect the DNA for the Federal government.

SECTION 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board.

SECTION 101 will designate individual terrorists as foreign powers and again strip them of all rights under the enemy combatant designation.

SECTION 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.

SECTION 103 allows the Federal government to use wartime martial law powers domestically and internationally without Congress declaring that a state of war exists.

SECTION 106 is bone-chilling in its straightforwardness. It states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.

SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contemp charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.

SECTION 110 restates that key police state clauses in the first Patriot Act were not sunsetted and removes the five year sunset clause from other subsections of the first Patriot Act. After all, the media has told us: this is the New America. Get used to it. This is forever.

SECTION 111 expands the definition of the enemy combatant designation.

SECTION 122 restates the governments newly announced power of surveillance without a court order.

SECTION 123 restates that the government no longer needs warrants and that the investigations can be a giant dragnet-style sweep described in press reports about the Total Information Awareness Network. One passage reads, thus the focus of domestic surveillance may be less precise than that directed against more conventional types of crime.

*Note: Over and over again, in subsection after subsection, the second Patriot Act states that its new Soviet-type powers will be used to fight international terrorism, domestic terrorism and other types of crimes. Of course the government has already announced in Section 802 of the first USA Patriot act that any crime is considered domestic terrorism.

SECTION 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to totally break down any and all walls of privacy.

The government states that they must look at everything to determine if individuals or groups might have a connection to terrorist groups. As you can now see, you are guilty until proven innocent.

SECTION 127 allows the government to takeover coroners and medical examiners operations whenever they see fit. See how this is like Bill Clintons special medical examiner he had in Arkansas that ruled that people had committed suicide when their arms and legs had been cut off.

SECTION 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.

SECTION 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.

SECTION 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.

SECTION 205 allows top Federal officials to keep all their financial dealings secret, and anyone investigating them can be considered a terrorist. This should be very useful for Dick Cheney to stop anyone investigating Haliburton.

SECTION 303 sets up national DNA database of suspected terrorists. The database will also be used to stop other unlawful activities. It will share the information with state, local and foreign agencies for the same purposes.

SECTION 311 federalizes your local police department in the area of information sharing.

SECTION 313 provides liability protection for businesses, especially big businesses that spy on their customers for Homeland Security, violating their privacy agreements. It goes on to say that these are all preventative measures has anyone seen Minority Report? This is the access hub for the Total Information Awareness Network.

SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments.

SECTION 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.

SECTION 402 is titled Providing Material Support to Terrorism. The section reads that there is no requirement to show that the individual even had the intent to aid terrorists.

SECTION 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.

SECTION 404 makes it a crime for a terrorist or other criminals to use encryption in the commission of a crime.

SECTION 408 creates lifetime parole (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

SECTION 421 increases penalties for terrorist financing. This section states that any type of financial activity connected to terrorism will result to time in prison and $10-50,000 fines per violation.

SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities.

There are many other sections that I did not cover in the interest of time. The American people were shocked by the despotic nature of the first Patriot Act. The second Patriot Act dwarfs all police state legislation in modern world history.

Usually, corrupt governments allow their citizens lots of wonderful rights on paper, while carrying out their jackbooted oppression covertly. From snatch and grab operations to warantless searches, Patriot Act II is an Adolf Hitler wish list.

You can understand why President Bush, Dick Cheney and Dennis Hastert want to keep this legislation secret not just from Congress, but the American people as well. Bill Allison, Managing Editor of the Center for Public Integrity, the group that broke this story, stated on my radio show that it was obvious that they were just waiting for another terrorist attack to opportunistically get this new bill through. He then shocked me with an insightful comment about how the Federal government was crafting this so that they could go after the American people in general. He also agreed that the FBI has been quietly demonizing patriots and Christians and those who carry around pocket Constitutions.

I have produced two documentary films and written a book about what really happened on September 11th. The bottom line is this: the military-industrial complex carried the attacks out as a pretext for control. Anyone who doubts this just hasnt looked at the mountains of hard evidence.

Of course, the current group of white collar criminals in the White House might not care that were finding out the details of their next phase. Because, after all, when smallpox gets released, or more buildings start blowing up, the President can stand up there at his lectern suppressing a smirk, squeeze out a tear or two, and tell us that See I was right. I had to take away your rights to keep you safe. And now its your fault that all of these children are dead. From that point on, anyone who criticizes tyranny will be shouted down by the paid talking head government mouthpieces in the mainstream media.

You have to admit, its a beautiful script. Unfortunately, its being played out in the real world. If we dont get the word out that government is using terror to control our lives while doing nothing to stop the terrorists, we will deserve what we get - tyranny. But our children wont deserve it.
By playing at an offshore casino, you waive your constitutional rights granted to you under the US Consitution, since it does not apply to other countries or companies based in other countries. When you play in an internet casino, they consider you playing on their shores. There are no US based Internet casinos that allow US citizens to play in them, so this arguement is really moot. And Neteller never asked for my Social Security number, and its not listed as a requirement on the signup page. And why would they anyway? They're a CANADIAN company!

This whole diatribe sounds like something from Art Bell and the rest of the 'Black Helicopter' lunatic fringe. I'm no fan of Bush either, but I don't believe for a second that "the military-industrial complex carried the attacks out as a pretext for control". This is insane. Now if you told me the Israeli intelligence agency knew it was going to happen, I'd believe that. But really, the other premise is as loony as Pierre Salinger's assertion that the Navy shot down TWA 800 over Long Island sound.

Though I do agree that the so-called 'patriot act' goes way too far in some respects. But really, get a grip on the rest of that stuff.

(Message edited by jpm on April 16, 2003)
As far as neteller goes they do ask for your social security number. Try to sign up now and you will see that they do ask for it. Also I live on the water where the TWA plane crashed and had friends on the water that day who saw something moving upwards towards the sky and then the plane exploding. They were very reliable people also.
Well even if they did ask for it, I wouldn't give them the real number. They aren't a bank, and they aren't in the US, so they have no need for the number like a US bank would (IRS reporting requirements, etc). Its most likely for identification purposes if you call for support.

As for the plane, I think they determined that what they saw was a combination of reflection off the water and burning fuel. If it were actually a missle, then it was probably a stinger fired by a terrorist in a boat, not a US Navy ship. How are you going to keep a whole ship full of sailors quiet about that? Someone would talk sooner or later and spill the beans. Ordering them not to say anything about it would be and illegal order in my opinion, and they aren't obligated to follow illegal orders. I believe if it wasn't a short in the fume-filled center fuel tank that set off the explosion, then it was either the stinger in the boat scenario or a shoebomber.
So Bryan, have you revoked the Patriot Act and relaunched the investigation into TWA 800, or should it go in pitch a bitch to get some action.

Lift your game. :p


hmmm i might go check the gambling section next..............
Honestly, when this was originally posted I was a bit short on time and didn't have the patience to read the first post. Too friggin' long! Sheesh! get to the point. A link would have been fine.

Still don't get it. Neteller asks for SSN? That's a crock of shit. SSNs are for Americans and Neteller is an International company taking in membership from all over cyberland. No one has ever asked for mine (except opening an account at some Microgaming casinos, but it's not a required field). I don't give it out; never has a problem.

Yes, there seems to be an Art Bell-ish paranoia atmosphere here. I used to listen to his radio show a lot when I lived in San Diego. I should search around for it from here.
It was pretty cool.
Neteller will eventually ask you to correct your fake SS#. You'll find out someday when your password doesn't work. You'll call them and they'll say it doesn't match, apparently in a routine security check. You'll give them the real one, they'll check it in about 15 seconds, and re-open the account. As for the members that signed before December of 2002, apparently they are "grandfathered" in.
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention. There are no black helicopters. Everyone knows they're WHITE! (with blue lettering)
What about customers who don't have a SSN?

Maybe someone here could experiment with their own account and "lose" their password to see what happens. I'd be curious to hear about the results.
That's a good question Bryan. I personally have not given mine because I joined in 2001 and they still haven't asked me. I assumed pre-Patriot Act was grandfathered in. I just assumed. Maybe they will ask me for mine some day.

I believe they first started asking for SS# in the first week of December, right after PayPal stopped doing online gambling. Everyone I knew was rushing to open a Neteller account. Well, I know people that opened one on a Monday and were not asked. Then later in that week they were REQUIRED to provide the SS# and there was a link explaining that it was to comply with the Patriot Act. One friend called me to tell me about it and I thought it was strange since they are Canadian. But just a few weeks ago another friend had his account on hold, until he gave them the right number, after having given them an incorrect number when joining in December. He said they checked it in 15 seconds and then unlocked his account immediately.

I do not like the idea of giving the SS#, even though if the IRS checked all of my gambling transactions they would only find that I usually lose my ass. But still, it's the principle.
I just checked over their site: no privacy statment. Hmmmm.

So I emailed their support asking them for this and to provide me with any information they have concerning collecting SSNs.

They never asked me for one probably because I am in Deutschland.

Our privacy statement can be found under the help tab using our help wizard.
NETeller does require your SSN number in compliance to the US patriot act.


NETeller Customer Support
Please find below a portion of the US Patriot Act in which we require it:

U.S. Persons Only
Due to our policy of full compliance with the Patriot Act, NETeller will be
requiring certain information to verify our client's identities. This
information is name, address, date of birth and an identification number.
For US persons an identification number can be a social security number or a
drivers license number. NETeller will only be accepting social security

Reference: U.S. Patriot Act Section 326


NETeller Customer Support
Interesting. I signed up well before 2002, so they've never asked for mine either. But I still don't see how they can tell if you give them a fake one or not. Not like they have a line to the social security administration database or something. I imagine if you give them a fake one, then if they ever ask you for it you give them the same fake one, they'd never know the difference. That's what I'll be doing if they ever request it. Unless you're the bank or the IRS, you just don't need to know that info.
Yes they do have a line to Social Security. It pulls your real name, address, etc. TRUST ME! They sent me some Social Security form to fill out because I gave them someone elses Social Security Number. They stated the person name and address via phone of the person whom Social Security Number I gave. It was a 100% match from name to address.
Hi murder1...the exact same thing happened to me.
I was asked to provide my Social Security number and I gave them a fake one. Actually, I gave my Father's SSN, may he rest in peace. They caught it and sent me the SS forms to fill out. I tossed them in the garbage pail. I am not giving my Social Security number to anyone. So now, I simply send Western Union deposits when I need to deposit. Granted not every casino accepts Western Unions, so I only gamble where WU is accepted. I will not even use my credit cards anymore, nor direct deposits from my bank accounts. I feel that since these casino's are a dime a dozen, and every single day there is a problem with someone getting paid, or no response, etc. I simply decided they get no information from me. It limits where I can play, but what the heck, Atlantic City is only two hours away.

Linda & Murder1, I'm trying to figure out how they are getting this info. Can you please tell me if the fake ss#'s you used were ever used by people who did gamble online, and possibly gave that # to a casino already? I'm finding it hard to believe that a foreign company like this would have some type of access to the SS database. I don't think that is readily available to even banks in the US, so they must be doing something else to resolve these numbers. Possibly a credit or D&B check. Thanks.
I would imagine if they have a bank account # or credit card # they could check your credit easily, but if the name didnt match the social wouldnt it be next to impossible to get credit report? If you give Equifax a mismatch they probably wouldnt give you any info if the bank info, SSN and name dont match. Maybe someone has a connection with a bank or payroll service, that wouldnt be too hard. I'm with you Linda, Western union all the way. Alot of places will pay for it and you dont have to worry about personal info getting compromised or paying someone and there being a mixup and months later having them tell you that they never got paid.
In answer to your question regarding whether the SSN I gave Neteller was ever used by someone who had gambled online. The answer is no. My dad has been deceased since 1997, and never even owned a computer. So how neteller can decide if you are giving your correct SSN is beyond me. Hope this helps.

Thanks Linda, that is interesting. I wonder what their trick is.
Actually, Neteller will have representatives in Montreal next month at the GIGSE. I plan on getting some more information about this from them...I hope.
That'd be great Bryan, thanks! I just can't see the Social Security Administration giving full unfettered access to their database to a Canadian company that's not even a bank.
They not using it to report to the irs or the united states, they using for people when they try and defraud them.

They give u credit or rate your quick bank draw or i think they call it instant eft, they dont even have the money iin there hands, so if dont have the money how will they collect, so they send it to a collecting company over here to get there money back.
email and i will tell u how i know, if you not a crook
I'm just taking a guess, a SS# is sent to a site where it is processed. The sender is then informed if the SS# matches the name or not, but without disclosing personal information. :lol:
No, they were saying that neteller came back and said that the ss# they gave belongs to this person and gave the correct name, etc. That's the part that concerns me. I'd expect it to work the way you described, but it seems that they are getting more specific info that I don't think they should be able to get.

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