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Pending withdrawals - Everyone loses?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by ChopleyIOM, Jun 9, 2012.

    Jun 9, 2012
  1. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    I was just thinking about this before, and was wondering if the habit of casinos 'pending' a withdrawal for anything from 24 hours to 72 hours, and quite often more if a weekend or bank holidays gets in the way, actually hurts them as much as it inconveniences players?

    Current case in point for me was I got a letter through the post from Red Flush offering me a 100% match up to £100 on a 30xB WR. I decided to have a go and managed to finish the WR with £175 (so a reasonable little £75 raise), so I made a withdrawal. (I'm hoping they don't invoke their insane 'we can void your winnings if you use autoplay' T&C.....)

    I made that withdrawal last night, got the email confirming the request and stating their 24 hours pending period, which I guess means 24 hours starting on Monday, so I'll perhaps get my money into my Neteller account Tuesday or Wednesday next week.

    Problem now is I'd quite like to do some slotting tonight, and there's nothing stopping me depositing at any other casino with my 'gaming card' (which I always keep fully paid off and don't use for anything else), but knowing that I've got £175 'in the system' as it were, but out of my reach, dissuades me from depositing elsewhere in the meantime.

    Now this doesn't make any difference to Red Flush, they sit on my withdrawal for a few days in the hope I'll reverse it (which I won't), they pay out in the end, and everything carries on an usual - it's pretty much a no lose scenario for them, but for other casinos where I could be depositing and playing, the fact I feel disinclined to deposit elsewhere until I get my money back from Red Flush effectively takes that potential deposit out of 'the gaming system' as it were.

    A couple of months ago I hit a point where I was waiting for something in the region of £800 or so of withdrawals to make their way back to me, and I simply stopped playing for real money until I got them all back, and went onto play money instead.

    It just seems bizarre to me that I can make a withdrawal from 3Dice at 1am on Sunday morning, and by the time I get out of bed eight hours later, the money is sat in my Neteller account. A withdrawal from GNUF on Wednesday night doesn't arrive in my account until Monday or Tuesday the following week, thanks to the way their 48 hour pending goes past the end of the working week, so another 48 hours gets added on for the weekend and only then do they actually start to process it.

    My point here is that I think this behaviour is bad for the casinos as much as it's annoying for players, because I can't be the only one who reaches the point where I think, 'Nuts to this, I'm not playing another penny of real money until my withdrawals get back to me.'

    What do you think?
     
    15 people like this.
  2. Jun 9, 2012
  3. immortality

    immortality Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Mother
    Location:
    On a seat
    I simply choose to have a flutter in casinos that have no pending period, it's too tempting for me if money is sitting in the pending mode:rolleyes: I have reversed and played away withdrawals in the past:oops: don't want to go through that again:rolleyes:
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 9, 2012
  5. harrys99

    harrys99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bar Business/Office Management
    Location:
    Wherever I Want
    LOL-I say "nuts" to depositing again for a while at the last casino that did not process a w/d request made on a Thursday night by Monday night, at which time I proceeded to reverse and play it back.

    Clearly this is my own bad/compulsive behavior and not the fault of the casino, but until I get over myself I'm not depositing there. In that sense for the casino surely it is a losing situation not having that steady deposit stream.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jun 9, 2012
  7. EdieD

    EdieD Dormant account

    Occupation:
    trainer
    Location:
    u.s.
    I have decided for now and in the future, I will only deposit to an online casino that pays within 24 hours including weekends. The only one that I know fits the bill is 3dice, but I don't play there as I don't like the software.

    I'll wait until regulation where I feel this wil be standard or just play at top rated sportsbooks who practice this behavior.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2012
  9. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    Thanks for that post Chopley!:thumbsup:
    Why I like it is because you can play if you want but chose not to until you get your cash.

    For me the reason why I don't play when I wait for a cashout is simply because I don't have the money to play somewhere else while I wait. I chose to play only at places where they pay fast for that simple reason. I hate myself when I reverse and lose, so I don't put myself in that position any longer.
    A big thank you to those casinos that respect us enough to pay us as fast as they can:notworthy
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Jun 10, 2012
  11. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    So am I in the minority then when I can say I've never reversed a withdrawal?

    I have a really stubborn head on me, and once I decide to make a withdrawal from a casino, whether or not it represents a profit or a loss, I'm determined to just sit it out and wait until the money gets back to me.

    Obviously each casino/casino group is going to operate on an 'every man for himself' basis, so if long pending periods in the hope of reversals appears to be helping their profits, I guess they'll keep on doing it.

    Mind you, despite my original post protestations, I have just deposited at 3Dice for some slotting this evening, (well, morning as it will soon be :lolup:), but then again 3Dice are absolutely on my 'totally trusted' list, so I know that if and when I come to make a withdrawal they'll get it to me quickly and it won't get lost in 'the system' for several days.....

    Battlefield 3 with the guys was fun this evening, but that's over for the night, the Chopley family is all in bed, so it's got to be some slotting, another glass of wine, and the Euro Dance radio channel to accompany some 3Dice gaming :D
     
    3 people like this.
  12. Jun 10, 2012
  13. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    I've reversed so many withdrawals it's ridiculous - nothing really big though, I think the biggest was maybe $400. But I shudder to think of adding up all of the $200-$250-$300 ones I've played back - especially right now when my bank account is looking so pathetic.

    But I'm the same as Tirilej, I don't really have a lot of disposable income right now so when I have $200 whispering, "Come play me..." - well I usually fall for it. It gives me the chance to bet a little bigger, and it's not like I have lots of other fun things to do with my time. sigh.
     
  14. Jun 10, 2012
  15. Dipity

    Dipity Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Web Designer
    Location:
    UK
    I think I'm in the same boat as most here, Chopley - I've reversed so many w/d it's ridiculous. That's why I enjoy 3 dice - prompt pay and I can get it from my mb into my account in less than 1 day turnaround.

    I agree with the sentiment that everyone loses when they offer a reverse period!

    On an unrelated note, BF3? I spend my time on Team Fortress 2 and Dota 2, do you play either of those? :p
     
  16. Jun 10, 2012
  17. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    While I agree with Chopley in a sense I think these extended pending withdrawal times were set after an extensive study on the stats and behavioral patterns by the casinos. Gamblers in general are perceived to be weak-willed and will reverse and play whenever they have the urge to do so. Most gamblers will not be as level-headed as Chopley and may choose casinos where they feel lucky at or those who offer them the best bonuses. IMHO pending w/d times will not be an important factor when choosing the casino they patronise most. Its true they will rant whenever they have a sizeable cashout still sitting in the cashier after 36 hours but in their rage most players will simply reverse and that's what the casinos want. I am pretty sure they conducted extensive research before coming to this decision ie 48-hour pending w/d times like JC despite a definite backlash from the community. If, as a result, their cashflow improves dramatically I doubt whether it will be much longer before we see the industry standard set at 72 hours.
     
  18. Jun 10, 2012
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem is they can only see their own data. If pending periods elsewhere deter players from depositing, they have no way of knowing unless they ask some regular players why they have deviated from their usual pattern. If their own pending period prevents the money going to a competitor, they can live with it, and this is data they can see for themselves.

    The only thing that will make them change is if more and more players decided to sit tight for however long it takes, and gross turnover takes a tumble due to so much more "dead" money stuck in extended pending periods.

    With 32Red, payment turns up the next day, even at the weekend. Whilst it often goes partly to a competitor, some ends up back at 32Red, and if I have a large amount stuck in various pending periods, I am more likely to put what I have available into 32Red, rather than have a win from it stuck in yet another pending period.

    Casinos with long pending periods have to offer greater bonuses to compensate, else I will ignore them.

    When a player busts out, the pending period is irrelevant, it is when they win that it matters. Players have a mixture of losing and winning sessions, and their hobby/habit/addiction is fed partly from new money, but also from money recycled from their winning sessions. Stalling the movement of the money from these winning sessions will reduce the gross turnover, but not necessarily cause a reduction in net profit.

    Casinos trot out this "industry standard" bullshit to distance themselves from an unpopular change of policy, blaming instead some mythical industry body that sets such standards, and that expects operators to follow them. The truth, if told, would make them look bad, and lose them players. The truth is that no external body has told them to move from a shorter pending period to a longer one, it is purely an internal decision, and one they are free to not make, as well as to make.

    32Red have chosen NOT to join in with this "bullshit club", and continue to operate with their player driven pending periods, which can be set right down to an hour on request so that payment effectively goes out in the next batch. Despite this, their profits have increased markedly, whilst at the same time other operators are suffering hard times, and even going bust.
     
    8 people like this.
  20. Jun 11, 2012
  21. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    I have reversed a few sizeable withdrawals - Heck I am a gambler - Sometimes disciplined, other times off the scale.

    I think we generally have our ups and downs. One of the biggest downfalls is my impatience. I think RTG Casinos in general prey most on the 'Reversal Syndrome' than other places. Whilst MG and other places have pending periods, its only at RTG (in my experience) that you have that pending period and a Weekly Withdrawal limit..

    I could withdraw 4k and have to wait another week for the balance to hit my account - I often end up just playing the funds.

    I've ranted about Slotastic in the last week - But think of it this way... 48-96 Hours pending, then you are limited to 4k for the week and then another 48hours pending till they process your next WD... at the end it just becomes a nightmare and a frustrating experience withdrawing.

    I just strike the 'pending' Casinos off my depositing list - I'm sure they don't care that my odd $1000 worth of deposits don't come their way - In the long run and with more people it may just hurt them.

    I know Club World don't process on weekends but they process quickly in the week. I opt to stay away over the weekends as other places pay if I need a RTG fix.

    In general - I HATE the restrictions because I feel there are none when it comes to depositing and losing.

    This is why i have the utmost respect for Casinos who flush, process quickly AND do not impose limits.

    Nate
     
    6 people like this.
  22. Jun 11, 2012
  23. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Agreed with nate and vinyl - imagine going into ladbrokes, putting 100 on a horse and winning 500. Go to the counter, ask for your slip to be cashed and get told 'sorry, come back in 4 days'. You moan and then are told 'tell you what, we'll give you 500 in betting vouchers that you can only spend in here, and forget the slip' Would you go back?
    The quick payers will gain more market share, especially from savvy online gamers who know the system, simply by doing nothing and paying fast. For proprietary you got 3dice, netent nordicbet, MGS 32red/Nedplay/dash, playtech bet365/betfred,Paddypower, IGT/MGS Virgin/MrGreen and most other IGT sites who all have no or minimal pending periods. Whatever software you prefer (unless a US player) you CAN find rapid payers of most softwares. Why you'd deposit elsewhere, unless bonus hunting, I don't know.
    Time will tell, but all I know is that quick payment is in the spirit of good online gaming and sites who have a genuine customer-orientated ethos. The games I want to play have reels and cards etc. and I don't want cashouts to become another game....
     
    4 people like this.
  24. Jun 11, 2012
  25. PNEFOREVER2

    PNEFOREVER2 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Parcel Sorter.
    Location:
    Preston,lancs
    A while back I deposited £20 (I think) at Royal Vegas and took a bonus-made the w/d and withdrew around £200.

    This was on a Friday,I asked if they could flush it,to which they replied no,hence over the next 2 days I stupidly reversed bit by bit until it was gone.

    Never again-if I know I could get paid within around 6 hours of making a w/d at other casinos I'm certainly not risking playing somewhere that takes upwards of 24 hours to payout.
     
  26. Jun 11, 2012
  27. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    they got the best selection of V P on the net I M O if you are interested :thumbsup:
     
  28. Jun 11, 2012
  29. SandraShells

    SandraShells Dormant account

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I personally do not like when that happens, makes me nervous :/ I think it is def a problem that should be solved, it really does no benefit to the casino and I am sure it bothers the majority of players! Hopefully some online casinos may be reading this forum thread :)
     
  30. Jun 11, 2012
  31. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    Well after two and a half days sat at pending Red Flush emailed me to say they wanted my documents as it was my first withdrawal from them (I played and lost with them back in the day so never made a withdrawal, I'd say I've had an account with them for over four years).

    I sent my documents off earlier this afternoon but haven't heard anything back from them yet.

    So I still have £175 of my money trapped out in the 'ghostlands' of casino purgatory. (Yes this is just a £175 withdrawal from a £100 deposit, over two days sat at pending and now 'we want your documents'.)

    As such, I'll play fruit machine emulators this evening - http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...fruit-machines-emulated-your-pc-no-catch.html

    And I'll play with real money at casinos another night......
     
  32. Jun 12, 2012
  33. EdieD

    EdieD Dormant account

    Occupation:
    trainer
    Location:
    u.s.
    Thanks for the tip rocky, but don't play much vp. For fun, I like to play the net entertainment slots or some at betfred. I can't deposit at these places, but enjoy the software better than a lot of land based games. Hope u.s. players eventually get onboard with software that professional and entertaining.
     
  34. Jun 12, 2012
  35. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    UK
    Just an update on my Red Flush situation. (Remember we're talking about a measly £175 withdrawal from a £100 deposit.)

    1) Requested withdrawal Friday 8th June at 2345hrs.
    2) Stayed at pending until Monday 11th June.
    3) Monday 11th June at 1445hrs I get an email requesting my docs and an email address to send them to. (banking@redflush.com)
    4) I return the requested docs within an hour. (Driving licence photo ID scan, credit card scans front and back, recent utility bill scan)
    5) Still haven't heard anything by the next day so Tuesday 12th June at 0740hrs I email support and ask for an update.
    6) Support email back (quickly in all fairness) and say they haven't got my docs, and provide an entirely different email address to send my docs to, or to just reply to the email.
    7) Support email back (again, quickly) and say that my docs are fine (driving licence photo ID, credit card scans front and back, recent utility bill scan) but they now want to do telephone verification with me. (In 4 1/2 years of playing online I have NEVER been required to do telephone verification at ANY casino and I've withdrawn sums of cash a damn sight bigger than £175.)

    8) I provide a phone number for them to contact me on and ask them to do so ASAP (what's the point of telephone verification if I can just provide them with any old number?), which is the same telephone number I provided when I originally opened my account with them about four years ago.
    9) They call me within an hour, confirm some really basic details (D.O.B., postal address, email address - I'm really not sure what the phone call achieved), say that everything is in order and I should hear from their banking department within eight hours.
    10) It's now 1845hrs on Tuesday 12th June, so nearly ten hours after the phone call, and coming up on 96 hours since I originally requested the withdrawal. Still not heard from their banking people and still no money in my Neteller account.
    11) And to cap it all I finally got a bounce message from gmail from the email address that Red Flush originally provided me with to send my docs to, so I sent off a fair wedge of 'high quality' personal information to an email address that doesn't appear to exist and which bounced around in Cyberspace for over 24 hours, which I am very unhappy about.

    On a scale of 1 to 10, how impressed do you think I've been with the process of my first withdrawal from the Red Flush casino?......

    This also comes back to my original point in this thread which is this sort of behaviour keeps money out of the gaming system, which is lifeblood of all casinos. These kinds of shenanigans annoy players AND deprive the casinos of revenues, why can't they see this?
     
    2 people like this.
  36. Jun 12, 2012
  37. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    i think you will get paid but unlike dice were every one knows who you really are :D this is a cookie cutter response to any new with draw;r [P I T A] i know :rolleyes: the heard mentality is that another player will revers and loose :( they don't want that option to go by:rolleyes:
     
  38. Jun 14, 2012
  39. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    This has me fuming just reading it. This casino cannot ever be recommended or accredited, and hopefully you'll get the lolly and don't ever depo there again. I say that, because if you redepo and perchance win a decent sum, you'll likely get more delays and obstructive behaviour, like notarized BS or needing to send a DNA swab in which takes 2-3 weeks for analysis.
     

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