Patience levels when you first join

worldlad

Crybaby McCryface
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Location
Who gives a shit
OK so you join up to a casino as a new player and you make your first deposit and you lose, you keep depositing and play a wide range of different games from slots, blackjack and roulette etc but whatever you seem to do you just keep losing.

How do you react and at what point do you say to yourself enough is enough, do you close your account? Make a complaint? Self Exclude? Forget about it? Move to another website etc?
 

interlog

Meister Member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Location
London
OK so you join up to a casino as a new player and you make your first deposit and you lose, you keep depositing and play a wide range of different games from slots, blackjack and roulette etc but whatever you seem to do you just keep losing.

How do you react and at what point do you say to yourself enough is enough, do you close your account? Make a complaint? Self Exclude? Forget about it? Move to another website etc?

Make a complaint about what? Never self exclude but if you feel a particular casino is unlucky then just move to the next one.
 

worldlad

Crybaby McCryface
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Location
Who gives a shit
Make a complaint about what? Never self exclude but if you feel a particular casino is unlucky then just move to the next one.

LOL..

Well if you was playing a slot at say £2 per spin and you spend like £2k and not even trigger a feature you wouldn't speak to them about it and complain? How on earth are developers and casinos meant to improve if people don't give feedback/suggestions or complain!

Why do you think many products have freephone numbers on consumer items, because in order for a company to be successful they need to be listening when things go wrong or right.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
I'd forget about it and move on, the games aren't going anywhere. The best rule to follow is not to chase, because no matter how much you think the slots owe you they can't be forced to pay out.

Complaining won't do much good because you've made an agreement with the casino that gambling is fickle by nature and can favour either party, so if you have the wrong expectations going into it then you're in for a surprise as all games are weighted towards the caino anyway.

Chalk off your losses, we've all had them, and find that when you return a few days/weeks later those games will inevitably turn a corner. It's usually when you least expect to win that the big hits come chugging along :cool:
 

interlog

Meister Member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Location
London
LOL..

Well if you was playing a slot at say £2 per spin and you spend like £2k and not even trigger a feature you wouldn't speak to them about it and complain? How on earth are developers and casinos meant to improve if people don't give feedback/suggestions or complain!

Why do you think many products have freephone numbers on consumer items, because in order for a company to be successful they need to be listening when things go wrong or right.

Well the casino (the subject of your post) has no control over the slot so no point complaining to them so not sure why you laughed out loud at what I said :confused:
 

worldlad

Crybaby McCryface
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Location
Who gives a shit
Well the casino (the subject of your post) has no control over the slot so no point complaining to them so not sure why you laughed out loud at what I said :confused:

OK. Let me try and put it another way, let's say NetEnt developed a slot it hardly ever triggered a bonus players throughout hundreds of Casinos had closed down accounts or made complaints that they feel they didn't get a 'game' for the money, do you honestly think Casino's would then not provide the negative feedback to developers?

New updates and changes are made all the time to games from bug issues and feature improvements. The developers can also see machines which suddenly see a fall in revenue and will spend vast amounts of money in research to find out why players have stopped playing. Sometimes the research shows that improvements can not be made so they just scrap the game altogether or casinos will no longer renew licences etc.


Players don't mind losing money if they feel they've had a good game, but a machine that just takes takes takes is the biggest reasons why players become angry and eventually they just do not return.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Don't self exclude, unless you have a gambling problem and want to quit for good, or at least a lengthy period. You can run into later problems with sister sites. It's not always easy to tell who is linked to who, and casinos even change hands, so if for instance you favourite casino buys a property you've self-excluded at, it might mean problems for you.

I don't think it's unreasonable to complain politely about a bad run of luck. But that's what it is, not the casino's fault. But many will offer a comp of some kind if you've had a really bad run.

I'm not very swift to leave a casino due to poor runs, even lengthy ones. If game selection and play is good (ie little lagging and disconnects), support is efficient and knowledgeable, the casino offers me attractive bonuses, and at least from other people's reports, pays within a reasonable time frame, I do tend to stick it out.

But that's a personal choice. If you choose to stop playing because it's not your lucky spot, I can not blame you.
 

TradaCasino

Official rep for Trada Casino
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Location
Dublin, Ireland
OK. Let me try and put it another way, let's say NetEnt developed a slot it hardly ever triggered a bonus....

What would also affect your experience is the slots you choose to play. Each spin is random, so while you might experience a bad run, someone else might hit two features in a row. You would need to put a significant amount of time into one game to get a true understanding of how it pays.

For example, if you opt for high volatility games you are less likely to hit the feature on a regular basis. In Dead or Alive, you will hit the bonus round about 0.66% of the time - once you're in the bonus round you will get the re-trigger (5 individual wilds) 2.2% of the time (so quite rare). On the other hand, if you play Bloodsuckers, you will hit the bonus game 2.1% of the time, so you would definitely get longer sessions on this game, but not as high a win potential.

I suppose the answer to your question depends on a number of factors - what amount you like to cashout at (2x deposit...10x deposit... etc), what games you're playing, how much you bet per spin. Maybe with this information the CM community could share some ideas on managing bankroll, some different slots that suit your style of play, ideas on when to cash-out etc.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Really strange that gamblers brag about their big wins aka certain CM threads or other websites... all is well but the soon a losing streak is looming and maybe persists for a while, which it always will by nature of the games, the crying and complaining starts.

If you can't take the losing periods like you can the winning ones then stop gambling. Or play only at minimum bets to reduce losses.

What shall a casino or a game developer do in your view..... giving you guaranteed winning sessions every time you log in?

Just because you are not winning or getting a bonus round doesn’t mean that others don't.
 

Lincolnuk

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Location
Lincolnshire
OK so you join up to a casino as a new player and you make your first deposit and you lose, you keep depositing and play a wide range of different games from slots, blackjack and roulette etc but whatever you seem to do you just keep losing.

How do you react and at what point do you say to yourself enough is enough, do you close your account? Make a complaint? Self Exclude? Forget about it? Move to another website etc?


Close account when...... How about at the point it no longer becomes fun
 

TheAddict

Ueber Meister
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Location
Kent
LOL..

Well if you was playing a slot at say £2 per spin and you spend like £2k and not even trigger a feature you wouldn't speak to them about it and complain? How on earth are developers and casinos meant to improve if people don't give feedback/suggestions or complain!

Why do you think many products have freephone numbers on consumer items, because in order for a company to be successful they need to be listening when things go wrong or right.

If i (and many i presume) made a complaint regarding 1000 spins without a bonus each time a slot done so, thousands of emails about bdba and doa, moterhead alone would probably crash outlook. and BTG would probably have to invest in a AF-CS support team (actual fuming customers service) :p
 

Captain Rizk

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Location
Malta
OK. Let me try and put it another way, let's say NetEnt developed a slot it hardly ever triggered a bonus players throughout hundreds of Casinos had closed down accounts or made complaints that they feel they didn't get a 'game' for the money, do you honestly think Casino's would then not provide the negative feedback to developers?

New updates and changes are made all the time to games from bug issues and feature improvements. The developers can also see machines which suddenly see a fall in revenue and will spend vast amounts of money in research to find out why players have stopped playing. Sometimes the research shows that improvements can not be made so they just scrap the game altogether or casinos will no longer renew licences etc.


Players don't mind losing money if they feel they've had a good game, but a machine that just takes takes takes is the biggest reasons why players become angry and eventually they just do not return.

So when a game provider develops a game before they can release it they have to go through the following process:

Document every single statistic that there is connected with the games - number of spins between free spin rounds, rtp overall, rtp in the base game, rtp in the bonus game, jackpot contributions etc etc etc

the game then gets submitted to an APPROVED testing lab such as GLI. They then run billions of rounds on the game and check that over the very long run that the game does what it is supposed to do and does what the paperwork says it should.

It then gets usbmitted to every single regulator that that game provider works with - Malta, Uk, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Estonia etc etc

they all check that the game does what it is supposed to do and all the paperwork is in order, the rules are there, the rtp is stated etc etc

then the 3rd party get a licence to release the game knowing that over the long run the game is fair and pays what it should

A few hundred spins is not enough to detemine this. Thousands of spins are not enough to determine this - there are certain games where we, the casino, have lost money on month after month after month - but in the long run it evens out....
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
Awwww Tim.... if only you'd posted that months, no make that years ago, you'd have saved me a fortune in needless purchases of tin foil and about 7,682 needless 'conspiracy theory' posts :oops: :oops: :p

Good to have the facts confirmed though, cheers :thumbsup:
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
So when a game provider develops a game before they can release it they have to go through the following process:

Document every single statistic that there is connected with the games - number of spins between free spin rounds, rtp overall, rtp in the base game, rtp in the bonus game, jackpot contributions etc etc etc

the game then gets submitted to an APPROVED testing lab such as GLI. They then run billions of rounds on the game and check that over the very long run that the game does what it is supposed to do and does what the paperwork says it should.

It then gets usbmitted to every single regulator that that game provider works with - Malta, Uk, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Estonia etc etc

they all check that the game does what it is supposed to do and all the paperwork is in order, the rules are there, the rtp is stated etc etc

then the 3rd party get a licence to release the game knowing that over the long run the game is fair and pays what it should

A few hundred spins is not enough to detemine this. Thousands of spins are not enough to determine this - there are certain games where we, the casino, have lost money on month after month after month - but in the long run it evens out....

So, when you have a game like NetEnt's 'Cosmic Fortune', which was withdrawn pretty quickly after release, because it was spitting out jackpots at everyone....
That game had been thoroughly tested by GLI (or whoever) and then each of the individual regulators???
Yet passed no problem??

Even assuming the problem wasn't detectable until it was running live. The new/modified version would, I assume, have to be retested by GLI (or whoever) and then each of the individual regulators and a new licence granted. Yet they managed to fix the problem, and do all that within a matter of days????

And then there was 'Frankenstein' also by NetEnt, which had a 'cheat' built in, possibly from it's very first release. That had passed all the testing, and one would assume, fairly regular re-testing......
 

interlog

Meister Member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Location
London
So, when you have a game like NetEnt's 'Cosmic Fortune', which was withdrawn pretty quickly after release, because it was spitting out jackpots at everyone....
That game had been thoroughly tested by GLI (or whoever) and then each of the individual regulators???
Yet passed no problem??

Even assuming the problem wasn't detectable until it was running live. The new/modified version would, I assume, have to be retested by GLI (or whoever) and then each of the individual regulators and a new licence granted. Yet they managed to fix the problem, and do all that within a matter of days????

And then there was 'Frankenstein' also by NetEnt, which had a 'cheat' built in, possibly from it's very first release. That had passed all the testing, and one would assume, fairly regular re-testing......

Excellent points raised. Wasn't it BTG that said they couldn't change a setting to the music of all things because it needed to be relicensed? The point I am making if something as simple as a music setting requires relicensing you would have thought if the mechanics of the game change the testing would be more rigorous.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Location
Northants
Unless there using fake games than complain to who?

If your lucks out than switch sites, Ty not to close account as that can bring in no end of rouble
 

b3b44

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Location
netherlands
Impo i would deposit twice if no cashout is reached probably would take a break from that casino for a couple months ...

Then go back to casino's that would give you more playtime (Bonuses, Cashback, Casinoraces)

Even when that doesn't help its best to take weeks if not months break from gambling.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
So when a game provider develops a game before they can release it they have to go through the following process:

Document every single statistic that there is connected with the games - number of spins between free spin rounds, rtp overall, rtp in the base game, rtp in the bonus game, jackpot contributions etc etc etc

the game then gets submitted to an APPROVED testing lab such as GLI. They then run billions of rounds on the game and check that over the very long run that the game does what it is supposed to do and does what the paperwork says it should.

It then gets usbmitted to every single regulator that that game provider works with - Malta, Uk, France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Estonia etc etc

they all check that the game does what it is supposed to do and all the paperwork is in order, the rules are there, the rtp is stated etc etc

then the 3rd party get a licence to release the game knowing that over the long run the game is fair and pays what it should

A few hundred spins is not enough to detemine this. Thousands of spins are not enough to determine this - there are certain games where we, the casino, have lost money on month after month after month - but in the long run it evens out....

With all due respect Tim but I do not think the games are getting tested properly. After all this is an industry paying all itself and within itself. Quite a few of these labs are sponsored by the gaming industry in one way or another.

But let's assume they to it properly. I am taking now only the BTG slot Bonanza as an example.

I have done exactly 23,432 spins on it (playing it right now but my data is now up to this point)

BTG claims:

- 117K paylines
- rare but generous bonus rounds with unlimited multiplier
- all sounds very entertaining

That is one side of the medal, now to the other side:

Part 1:
- in 23,432 spins i had on the screen
--> 88.87% below 10K paylines
--> 10.53% between 10 - 25K lines
--> 0.59% over 25K lines
--> 0.01% all 117K lines

In numbers, I had 4 spins with all 117K lines in 23,432 spins, of which 2 did not pay a single cent. :mad:

Hence, claiming a wonderful 117K lines is just plain cheating, do those testers run the slot blind or not looking at them???? :confused:

Part 2
- Bonus rounds
--> just one example, today i waited a solid 240 spins to see once 3 of the 4 letters that are needed to trigger it. And that is the norm, nothing unusual, my highest number 446 spins.
--> my bonus rounds paid an average 34.5x bet ....that is something any slot would pay.

Hence, claiming that the bonus round will make up for the long wait is yet again a big lie!

Now you might say 23K spins is not much, well, i think it is enough to give a pretty good indication of how the slot is playing. And again, are those testers blind, not interested or just plain not looking at the games properly???? :confused:

I mean anyone with a $20 or $30 budget to play can't touch this slot as they won't even see a chance to get a bonus round before the money is running out! And all gambling commissions happily certify such games? Responsible gambling eh? :rolleyes:

PS. now at spin 360 and i have yet to see the second chance/3-letter teaser for the bonus round. :rolleyes:

PS2. Please do not take this personal, these are just my observations of what BTG is claiming vs. my gaming results

Perfect example just happened ...432 spins to the bonus round, result 2x bet :mad:

Capture 848 (1024x565).jpg
 

worldlad

Crybaby McCryface
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Location
Who gives a shit
Unless there using fake games than complain to who?

If your lucks out than switch sites, Ty not to close account as that can bring in no end of rouble

Closing sites shouldn't in reality stop anyone from running into trouble if they forgot they closed an account from years a go or the the company has many different brands, as long as you are truthful and honest in the information you provide upon signing up.

The responsibility should lie with the company who should have either the man power or software fully in place to identify previous customers who have either closed accounts or self excluded. Some companies do this really well and others who refuse to invest in decent identification and safeguarding technology fail, in that case the company should be fully responsible for the players actions.

If, not then the licence should be revoked immediately.
 

spintee

Ueber Meister
webby
mm2
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Location
Northants
Its bollox, Us as players no how slots work and this game would nether have passed a breath test, I am on about 3k spins and best win was £12 of a 20p bet and yet to come close to a bonus round, I have seen a bonus round on streams and pay is rubbish.
And all testing is done by the companys that own the slots, Do you really think that a casino can run of a 4% profit? some slots now 8%, Its not really hard to work out, you can see the comapanys net profit and income if you look in the right pcace, If machines really paid what they said than companys would not have enought to pay there light bills let alone anything else


With all due respect Tim but I do not think the games are getting tested properly. After all this is an industry paying all itself and within itself. Quite a few of these labs are sponsored by the gaming industry in one way or another.

But let's assume they to it properly. I am taking now only the BTG slot Bonanza as an example.

I have done exactly 23,432 spins on it (playing it right now but my data is now up to this point)

BTG claims:

- 117K paylines
- rare but generous bonus rounds with unlimited multiplier
- all sounds very entertaining

That is one side of the medal, now to the other side:

Part 1:
- in 23,432 spins i had on the screen
--> 88.87% below 10K paylines
--> 10.53% between 10 - 25K lines
--> 0.59% over 25K lines
--> 0.01% all 117K lines

In numbers, I had 4 spins with all 117K lines in 23,432 spins, of which 2 did not pay a single cent. :mad:

Hence, claiming a wonderful 117K lines is just plain cheating, do those testers run the slot blind or not looking at them???? :confused:

Part 2
- Bonus rounds
--> just one example, today i waited a solid 240 spins to see once 3 of the 4 letters that are needed to trigger it. And that is the norm, nothing unusual, my highest number 446 spins.
--> my bonus rounds paid an average 34.5x bet ....that is something any slot would pay.

Hence, claiming that the bonus round will make up for the long wait is yet again a big lie!

Now you might say 23K spins is not much, well, i think it is enough to give a pretty good indication of how the slot is playing. And again, are those testers blind, not interested or just plain not looking at the games properly???? :confused:

I mean anyone with a $20 or $30 budget to play can't touch this slot as they won't even see a chance to get a bonus round before the money is running out! And all gambling commissions happily certify such games? Responsible gambling eh? :rolleyes:

PS. now at spin 360 and i have yet to see the second chance/3-letter teaser for the bonus round. :rolleyes:

PS2. Please do not take this personal, these are just my observations of what BTG is claiming vs. my gaming results

Perfect example just happened ...432 spins to the bonus round, result 2x bet :mad:

View attachment 75633
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
Closing sites shouldn't in reality stop anyone from running into trouble if they forgot they closed an account from years a go or the the company has many different brands, as long as you are truthful and honest in the information you provide upon signing up.

The responsibility should lie with the company who should have either the man power or software fully in place to identify previous customers who have either closed accounts or self excluded. Some companies do this really well and others who refuse to invest in decent identification and safeguarding technology fail, in that case the company should be fully responsible for the players actions.

If, not then the licence should be revoked immediately.

The problem with closing accounts, is that some casinos have been known to self-exclude customers, rather than just close an account.
The customer won't know anything about it, until there are problems further down the line, when opening accounts with sister sites or a new site on the same license.

I don't know if it's easier for some lazy CS to just click on self-exclude.
or maybe if a customer has sent an nasty email asking for an account closure, they do it out of spite.

It's always best to just not play at a particular casino, and if you feel it necessary, email them to tell them why you're stopping playing there.
 
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