Party Poker ends relationship with skins

paul1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Once upon a time, in Los Angeles, there was only draw poker, high and lowball. The fishiest games were lowball. That's where the action players played. When they introduced/legalized Pai Gow Poker, the whole LA scene changed. Action players switched to Pai Gow. Also, frequently when the livest players would get stuck bad in the regular poker games, they would leave their seats and wander over to the Pai Gow section trying to get even. It changed the whole scene.
 

schnozzy

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Location
Ohio
For investment comparison purposes, it's hard to know how many of those 70k players are actually individual customers. Could be 4,000 "ten-tablers" and 30k individual players for a total of 34k individuals!

PartyPoker has stated that they get 70% of their rake/fees from 10% of their players.

Played PP multi table torunament last night. I thought the number of players on line was about the same as I always see.

The multi-table tournaments were never shared between skins. Only the cash games were shared, and those are near dead on the other sites, despite enormous bonus offers.

Party has also been making personalized kickback offers to high-volume players. I was offered $1500/mo if I matched the level of play I had there, before I got fed up with their customer service and switched to PokerStars.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
paul1 said:
Once upon a time, in Los Angeles, there was only draw poker, high and lowball. The fishiest games were lowball. That's where the action players played. When they introduced/legalized Pai Gow Poker, the whole LA scene changed. Action players switched to Pai Gow. Also, frequently when the livest players would get stuck bad in the regular poker games, they would leave their seats and wander over to the Pai Gow section trying to get even. It changed the whole scene.

I wouldn't go so far as to call the games fishy. I used to play lowball in Gardena - hit three jackpots in a month, only playing a few hours a week.

I also played in one of the first Pai Gow poker tournaments ever held (at the Bicycle, and actually I think it was the first one) - and won.

I miss that whole scene - and I really miss playing Lowball. Your description of the "scene" is pretty damn accurate :)
 

paul1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
spearmaster said:
I miss that whole scene - and I really miss playing Lowball. Your description of the "scene" is pretty damn accurate :)

There's still a small amount of lowball in the state. A couple places in LA (Gardena and Commerce), a couple near Sacramento, and, of course, over at the Oaks in Emeryville.

I'm sure you've probably heard the old joke. What do they call a 70-year old lowball player? ...... "Junior". :D
 

paul1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
pokeraddict said:
Completely OT......

Is Stud H/L still around out there? I could not find any in LV except the WSOP tourneys.

I can't think of any. It was never my interest, however. Before 1987, the whole state of California was all forms of draw poker. And there were some 600 small cardrooms throughout the state. Seems like every town had one. Now I believe there are about 80, not counting the Indian casinos. I'd say that high draw is totally extinct, and as can be seen lowball is on its death bed. :(

Not hard to figure out why. Of course, the popularity of holdem is the biggest factor. But there's no incentive for a cardroom to spread draw or lowball. The collection was about $24 per hour from the whole table of 8 players. In the smallest holdem games they rake close to $100 an hour.
 

solring

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Location
Texan Living in CA
paul1 said:
And there were some 600 small cardrooms throughout the state. Seems like every town had one. Now I believe there are about 80, not counting the Indian casinos.
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) lists 138 different cardrooms.

I'm proud to say that I've played at 15 of them... ;)
 

paul1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
solring said:
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) lists 138 different cardrooms.

I'm proud to say that I've played at 15 of them... ;)

I clicked that link and I think that is a pretty up-to-date list, off the top of my head. Many of those are Indian casinos and I suspect that if you deduct those it will be close to what I said for small card rooms. There are maybe four or five on that list I would question, which is pretty good because most lists I've seen are way outdated. But that's a pretty good list.

I think the difference is that somehow the state started regulating them in the late 80s, and before that it was generally up to the local governments, so you had literally close to 600 cardrooms here once. That was the good old days. But many "rooms" were just one table in a bar. And many were in some pretty rough parts of towns, not a place where you'd take your wife or girlfriend. Not exactly the Bellagio. :)
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
mary said:
I read the press put out by analysts on the financial side of things, and I'm not sure that all the money people understand how skins and online gaming work. I think they may have been double-counting players and are in for a bit of a shock.

I just read yesteday of a survey in the UK that had the result that 93% (!) of the respondents had gambled online. That looks like market saturation right there, there may not be much room for growth in the UK market.

I can see why Party would want to market the casinos side to their poker base, casino customers are 8X more profitable per head than poker customers. Why let those players go play on Playtech or Microgaming sites? I haven't looked at Iglobalmedia's casino software in years, is it any good with respect to interface and game selection?

Note to studio audience: Mary will never play at an Iglobalmedia site. They ripped off casino players for years without apology with gaffed games and that's how they funded their poker side. They did not see anything wrong with that; the distinction being that they considered their casino games to be fair because they were random. I consider them to be a scam because they did not follow the math of the casino games they protrayed--they were essentially slot machines looking like table games such as roulette. They made no disclosure at any time to players that this was the case.





Iglobal, now Party Gaming, will release a new casino with lots of new games etc. I think in February. The entire company product is going to change dramatically. This move by Party Poker was only one small part of the puzzle.
 

kavaman

Senior Member
PABnononaccred3
PABnononaccred3
MM
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Location
finland
Yep, but who the heck would like to play casino games at the same time as playing poker . Answer:The fishies

So it will mean less money for better players... because the fishies play their money to casino games..

-kavaman
 

Annorax

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Location
Iowa
mary said:
Note to studio audience: Mary will never play at an Iglobalmedia site. They ripped off casino players for years without apology with gaffed games and that's how they funded their poker side. They did not see anything wrong with that; the distinction being that they considered their casino games to be fair because they were random. I consider them to be a scam because they did not follow the math of the casino games they protrayed--they were essentially slot machines looking like table games such as roulette. They made no disclosure at any time to players that this was the case.

Note to news anchor: Evidence of gaffed games? I suspect Party's new blackjack may be gaffed, but don't have nearly a big enough sample size to prove it.
 

sirius

Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Location
UK
Annorax said:
Note to news anchor: Evidence of gaffed games? I suspect Party's new blackjack may be gaffed, but don't have nearly a big enough sample size to prove it.

They were definitely rigged around 1999-2001 at least. I had a result at Starluck that was in the millions to one chance I think (5 SDs below average) and they definitely knew it was rigged and wouldn't send the log files (they sent them for planetluck but that result wasn't so obviously bad). When wizardofodds didn't control his own advertising he advertised one of the iglobal sites and he recieved complaints and concluded it was rigged after testing it himself.

He used to have a warning on his site about iglobal/partygaming sites on his blacklist but that mysteriously disappeared a few months ago!
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
The software was changed quite some time ago, after the problems surfaced.

I think Michael removed the warnings after he got around to retesting.

I do play slots there - I like some of the features a lot.
 

paul1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
sirius said:
They were definitely rigged around 1999-2001 at least. I had a result at Starluck that was in the millions to one chance I think (5 SDs below average) and they definitely knew it was rigged and wouldn't send the log files (they sent them for planetluck but that result wasn't so obviously bad). When wizardofodds didn't control his own advertising he advertised one of the iglobal sites and he recieved complaints and concluded it was rigged after testing it himself.

He used to have a warning on his site about iglobal/partygaming sites on his blacklist but that mysteriously disappeared a few months ago!

There was a thread here not too long ago (within the last year I think) that showed repeat hands in their video poker. The same exact hands within a few minutes of each other. I don't remember if the issue was ever resolved. I'd like to know what happened with that.
 

paul1

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
pokeraddict said:
I am 99% sure this was never resolved. Seemingly swept under the carpet.

Maybe Bryan could ask when at that convention.

I, myself, have mixed thoughts on this kind of stuff. I know when I first started playing, I was convinced that MG's blackjack was "funny" and there was nothing anyone could tell me otherwise. So I stopped playing it. But I know gamblers are generally paranoid about these things and I don't want to be like that. Now I read what Sirius just said about IGlobal's blackjack, and I respect Sirius's opinion. I'm really confused. I just would not expect the big names in the industry to do anything not on the square. I just don't get it. I just, don't, get it. :(

Oh, and I must have missed what was at Wizardofodds on that subject. Gee, I would have liked to have read that.
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
I talked with them at an industry show. They freely admitted that their original software was not replicating the mathematical peformance of cards etc. Claimed that they hadn't known, it was the programmers' fault, and that their new software in development in India would be fair.

Of course, Starluck and Planetluck ran bonus promos all the time for games such as roulette that would have busted out the house if they'd been fair. So these guys really didn't give a ****.

They did not make any effort to refund losses to anybody; did not rollout the "fair" software immediately when they had it; and just didn't seem to really think it was of much concern.

So, I won't ever play at any Iglobalmedia games, including the poker. It's not important to them to run an honest game; only if they think they'll be caught.
 

amandajm

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Location
London
The bbc money programme just ran an
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and never bothered with the "flawed" software thing.

Of course I made the point to the BBC. I can only report your words and thoughts second hand Mary. If more did so, maybe this firm could be made answerable somehow and see fit to send the money they gleaned to charity.
 
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