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Bonus Complaint Party casino not paying because of Terms violations!

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by papadol3, May 9, 2011.

    May 9, 2011
  1. papadol3

    papadol3 Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    mechanic
    Location:
    greece
    Partycasino not paying 8000 in winnings

    The official reason , u placed more than 70% of your bonus in a single bet at the Roulette.

    I played there for the first time and missed that general terms.

    I wagered 40,000 more than the required amount, not 400 not 4000 but 40000 above the requirements, the bonus was intend to play in Roulette, it was a Roulette bonus.

    I also made a bigger deposit , the bonus was 100% up to 330 I made a deposit of 500 to get 330, is that bonus abuse ?? is that the kind of player you want to reserve the right and not pay 8000 in winnings for couple of bets that were above the 70%

    Shame on them, is there anyway I can get paid ?
     
  2. May 9, 2011
  3. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Sorry, but If you have violated their T&C, then you can not expect to be paid.

    Shame on you for not reading T&C :rolleyes:
     
    5 people like this.
  4. May 9, 2011
  5. cagedtiger

    cagedtiger Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Online Marketer
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    awe

    I know that really sucks, but I would agree about reading the terms & cond. I'm so sry for you.
     
  6. May 9, 2011
  7. heador112

    heador112 Experienced Member PABnononaccred3

    Location:
    Germany
    The Party gaming software makes it impossible to access a game which does not count towards WR . Its a very good feature . I wonder why they dont let a pop up appear which tells the player what is the maximum amount he can bet :what: . Most Roulette players play with a system or a strategy most of the time these players use progressions .
    Papadol wagered 40K more then the minimum , depositet more then necessary to get his bonus . Well he have violatet the terms but under these circumstances Party should pay the player as a good will gesture .
     
  8. May 9, 2011
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    ....but he is GREEK:rolleyes:
    Casinos seem to think all Greek players have set out to abuse the bonus when they stray past the boundaries set in the terms, and thus there is going to be no "goodwill" shown, even though the player wagered long past the WR, showing they were there to play Roulette, rather than mathematically manipulate the bonus to maximum effect.

    8000 is also a pretty expensive piece of "goodwill" for a casino to show towards a player who will probably never return.

    The only hope is to show that this rule was "hidden" in some way, rather than being made clear to anyone trying to read the terms governing their play.
     
  10. May 9, 2011
  11. Repro

    Repro Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Financial
    Location:
    Netherlands
    My feeling is that Partycasino is always very fair. At least they have always been that way for me.

    The bonusses they offer are overall very good IMO and it's very hard to "abuse" them. If you DO make a mistake by not reading the T&C (wagering 40K more than requested doesn't matter in this) it's their right to keep the winnings.

    I wonder if the OP has been a player/member there for a while or if it was a "new" signup. I think if he has been there for a while he can just email support and request a review. I think he will - at least - get his deposits returned.

    PAB is not possible. Partygaming is eCOGRA.
     
  12. May 9, 2011
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This would be the best course of action, ask eCogra to look into this, and determine whether the casino's actions were fair under the circumstances.
     
  14. May 9, 2011
  15. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Just one comment,

    Members here may "do a PAB" against casinos who are using eCOGRA, but I don`t think Max will deal with the case if the player has used eCOGRA first.

    Correct me if I am wrong :)
     
  16. May 9, 2011
  17. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    The OP has neglected to mention a few things:
    • they have already taken the issue to eCOGRA and received a ruling, not favourable (obviously).
    • they filed a PAB and I looked into it (after hearing back from eCOGRA). The OP's complaint was that the casino had no such Term as the 70% bet restriction. In fact the casino does (of course) have exactly that clause. Apparently the OP either didn't see it or didn't understand it. Either way the clause was there and they broke it, hence the casino's actions against them.

    Given these circumstance -- basically the OP is totally in the wrong here and the casino's actions were 100% justified -- one has to ask what the OP's purpose in posting here is? To bully the casino into doing what they want perhaps? That's going to be a problem for us, as seen in the Forum Rules:
    I've updated the thread title accordingly (was "Party casino not paying 8000 euro in winnings!").

    Actually we tend to take it on a case-by-case basis. Our first step is to check in with eCOGRA to see what they have on the case ... and then we take it from there.

    In this specific case it was pretty cut-and-dried: the player had clearly violated the Terms, was oblivious to the fact that the Term even existed and the casino's actions were fully justified based on the violation(s): case closed AFAIC.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
    4 people like this.
  18. May 9, 2011
  19. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Oki, thanks for the clarification :)

    The thread title looks much better now :thumbsup:
     
  20. May 9, 2011
  21. hakapuku

    hakapuku Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr

    Occupation:
    businessman
    Location:
    UA
    I would support a player on this one. Look - one has to read through this huge text to find out about the 70% rule:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Why isn't it mentioned in the specific promotion terms ? It is an obvious trap for the not very cautious players.

    There is one more strange thing here. Usually casino informs about this rule in the next form:

    Intercasino: "In the interests of fair gaming, players may not place individual bets equal to or in excess of 10% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met."

    Mummysgold: "Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met"

    Royal Vegas casino: "Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the bonus credited to the account prior to the play-through requirement for that bonus having been met;"

    Now look how it is presented at Party casino:

    "placing single or multiple bets of a value of seventy percent or more of the bonus on any single game with the intention of clearing the bonus until the release requirements have been met; "

    So even if the cautious player will try to read through this huge rules' section- he will look for percentage numbers (not words) and most certainly will miss it here. Smells not good at all! First , they hide this VERY IMPORTANT bonus rules deep into the 15 pages long rules section. And as if that was not enough- they use a trick of "words instead numbers" to make it even more difficult to find. Now you decide if the players is guilty or not.
     
    2 people like this.
  22. May 9, 2011
  23. oren1976

    oren1976 Banned User

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    Thailand
    Max, dont get hurt, I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but I strongly feel you developed hate to players who submit pitch a bitches and complaints about casinos.

    This hate and unpleasant EMails and thread is bold and can't be missed.

    Look at your style and try to understand what I mean.

    There is a poor player here, it is quite obvious the term was hidden look how long their general terms are, look how you write the of course... of course of course


    The style and way you reply show you just tired of dealing with unpaid players and you come with a strong taste when you start to deal with complaints.

    I am not going to change you but seriously, you might be a great person but dealing with complaints is not for you.


    This is something Casinoemster should read my words and decide, I am sure he can feel the same, not feeling it means you are human being without feelings.

    I am very sorry max but in this case the player is really poor and you shouldnt treay him like that even if you know how much fraud there is and the amount of fraud you and casinomeister have to deal with that brought you to that hostile attitute

    The only of course I would add, is that OF COUSE THE PLAYER SHOULD SEE PART OF HIS MONEY, MAYBE HALF OF WINNINGS DERIVED FROM HIS DEPOSIT, THIS IS THE ONLY FAIR RESOLUTION

    Since he wagered 40,000 more, thats huge amount, I am not against you, I just think you should read my words and think again and hopefully change your decision.

    Not paying anything is bad practice, bad decision, bet people, bad casino no matter how much fraud they have to deal with
     
  24. May 9, 2011
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's not THAT clear then, as they have to demonstrate an intent to clear the bonus, rather than simply breaking the rule during normal recreational play.

    If the player place the bet as part of recreational play, rather than an intent to clear the bonus, the term does not apply. It is a conditional term, rather than an absolute one.

    IF the player played on for 100x the required WR, then I don't think an "intent to clear the bonus" argument can be used, unless these large bets happened very early on, such as the first bet violating this term, and the player then building their balance quickly from a short sequence of early large bets before "playing recreationally" with their inflated balance.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. May 9, 2011
  27. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    I must disagree with most of you. I think their T&C about this issue is very clear. And it is a players choice to use a casino and play within the T&C that the player has stated that he/she has read and understood. This is a clear case, and my opinion is that the OP only wrote this thread as an attempt to use it as a threat against the casino.

    And oren1976, your comment about Max disgusts me.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
  28. May 9, 2011
  29. oren1976

    oren1976 Banned User

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    Thailand
    The same manager who didn't pay this poor player a dime, didn't pay in WPT, in WPT it was not in the terms, he just didn't like the way the player played.

    Usually even if there is a term or there is not , the decision should take into consideration who we are dealing with, we dealing with a bad manager, who is the casino warning section for not paying just not a while ago, same manager not paying here, the only different, the manager could find a caluse to confiscate full winning

    Is that honest, is this manager honest person ? of course not.

    Not all the terms are there to apply them at any case.

    The player deposited more to receive less than 100% bonus.

    The player played 40,000 more in the Roulette, the HE of rouellette is minimum 3% if he played single zero one means he lost around 1000 only for the extra wagering, in the long run, means this is not a bonus player

    Why to do that ??? unless you are the same evil manager who didn't pay at WPT, same bad person, this is what I mean, believe me I know the people involved, what I say is from my heart because I feel pain, it is the pain of what I see, I am not say what I say to disgust or hurt people just to wake them up and show them they are wrong
     
  30. May 9, 2011
  31. Rick Deckard

    Rick Deckard Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    "Payment of bonuses
    9.1 Subject to Clause 8.1 above, unless otherwise indicated in the applicable Specific Promotional Terms, all real money bonuses will be paid into the Accounts of Qualifying Players within seven (7) days of entry into the relevant Promotion.

    9.2 Your use of any real money bonuses is subject to Our review for irregular playing patterns. To ensure fair gaming and the proper use of bonuses, We consider low margin betting, equal betting, zero risk bets or hedge betting to be irregular gaming when deployed to exploit bonuses. Further examples of irregular playing patterns also include, but are not limited to: (i) placing single or multiple bets of a value of seventy percent or more of the bonus on any single game with the intention of clearing the bonus until the release requirements have been met; (ii) if We have good grounds to suspect you have attempted to use a bonus contrary to the spirit of the Promotional offering; (iii) if We have good grounds to suspect that you have sought only to exploit a bonus offered by Us in good faith to enhance your entertainment (for example, the acceptance of a bonus, the wagering the minimum amount and immediately withdrawing the funds). In the event that We deem that an irregular playing pattern has taken place, We reserve the right to prevent you from cashing out Account funds and/or withhold any of Your winnings derived from Your use of the bonus."


    Reading those bonus Terms, it seems to me you wouldn't have had a cat in hell's chance of withdrawing any winnings, whatever which way you played. The term I dislike most is the "contrary to the Spirit" term. It's so subjective it could mean any number of things.

    Though in this case I agree with Max and ecogra that you did clearly break the rules on this occasion. And hopefully you wont be tempted by using a bonus again at this casino and that can only be a good thing me thinks, as long as they keep that 'spirit of the promotion' nonsense in their terms.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  32. May 9, 2011
  33. oren1976

    oren1976 Banned User

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    Thailand
    WPT casino was put in the warning section, Party Casino should be put as well , as the exact same people run it.

    Maybe if it was in the warning section this player would avoid the Casino not having to suffer non payment from this inexperienced non payer manager of Party and WPT and Gamebookers casino, all those 3 casinos are manage by the same manager and same people who didn't pay those 2 poor players, all those 3 should be put in one package warning players to avoid cases of future non pay


    These kind of managers, plenty of them are around, first of all they understand nothing in gambling, for the pro player 70% or 20% he will manage to make money out of them and he will read the terms dont worry.

    But this is the way the work , They look and see a big cashout and they say, hooo we got a wise guy here who think he can win ha ha ha now lets find a term for not paying him or her, oh great we found one, they ignore the fact this player is probably or obviously not a bonus player, they ignore the fact he is customer who trusted their casino, all they want is not to pay to protect their job, lack of knowledge and lack of experience and basic business practice, believe me this is the truth , this is the way they think.

    And if they didn't find a term and you won too big, don't worry they will use the didn't comply with the Spirit.

    So the same Manager did that in WPT he used the spirit term, now he used another term.

    The terms are not always to be applied, have to use common sense, Casinomeister and Max know what I mean, from some reason Max sold his sole to the devil , this is what I see from his style and again I am saying that to wake people up and not to hurt people, I want to emphasize that

    If I am the manager I pay half of the winnings, there is no risk or losses to the casino by paying half of winnings derives from deposit at those cases
     
  34. May 9, 2011
  35. Repro

    Repro Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Financial
    Location:
    Netherlands
    As i said, i always feel that they handle these things very well. It seems that indeed the OP was completely in the wrong here.

    Thanks Max, for clarifying this !
     
  36. May 9, 2011
  37. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    :confused: Not sure how you can say "he sold his soul to the devil" in a helpful way. Kind of like saying "you suck but don't take that the wrong way", no?

    Anyway, that aside, I'm not sure what the basis for your comments are. The OP said in his PAB "no such 70% Term exists" then sent me a snapshot of the Terms which said "placing single or multiple bets of a value of seventy percent or more of the bonus on any single game ...". In other words -- as I have already said -- they either hadn't read or didn't understand what the Terms clearly stated. And this is somehow the casino's fault? Or my fault?

    I think not. The player is dead wrong here, doesn't deserve a nickel of "compensation" or "feel good money" or whatever you want to call it, and is trying to stir the shit by somehow making it seem as if the casino is doing a bad thing. I say "balderdash!" to that and still fully support the casino's actions. Call that demonic possession if you like but that doesn't change the facts and nor should it change the outcome of this case.

    Just out of curiosity how would you know what my emails said? Are you perhaps connected to the OP in some way? Are you posting here in support of them and their "case"? That would make you just a little biased don't you think?

    As to "hate", no I don't think I hate players who PAB. In fact many players seem quite happy with the assistance I give them and write me to tell "your are the best" and "Casinomeister rocks!" and so forth. That said I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that can't or won't read the Terms and then expect to be given special treatment for it later. Funny how it's often those people who post things like "Casino steal my money!!!" and so forth, rather like your friend the OP did here.
     
  38. May 9, 2011
  39. oren1976

    oren1976 Banned User

    Occupation:
    Computers
    Location:
    Thailand
    The devil joke means you are very hostile to players from the beginning due to being tired of a lot of fraud and bonus player complaints, I tend to beliebe I am also kind of person who wouldnt be able to handle it myself and this is why I feel this kind of work need to be somebody really objective and allow me to say we are both not objective in different poles

    You are right , but need to look at the whole picture, the player said it is not there simply because although he read it he didn't find it because it is hidden, it is very unclear there are bonus terms and it was not there it was in their general term and look how long it is, he missed it, even when he sent it to you reading it again and again he missed it.

    Considering the fact you know who we are dealing with here, the same manager you put yourself in the warning section didn't pay this player, isn't it a red flag ?? maybe the term shouldnt be applied, the term is there to avoid bonus players from doing what they like to do most, but in this case , the player is novice , not reading the terms, wager 40,000 in Roulette high HE game, the player got confiscated his winnings in full, this is not right, the decision at the least should be that the casino should pay winnings derived from deposit, the term was not in the promotion section as it is in Microgaming and other places as mentioned by one of the users, the manager is in the warning and the player wagered way above the wagering requirement, this terms is against bonus abusers, he is not, pay half , no risk to the casino, this is all I expect and I will be happy with your decision

    IF THE TERM WAS IN THE PROMOTION TERM NOT PAYING IS ACCEPTIBLE BUT LOOK HOW HIDDEN IT IS
     

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