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Pantasia problem

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by tibutibu, Mar 26, 2009.

    Mar 26, 2009
  1. tibutibu

    tibutibu Banned User

    Latin America

    I am posting the same response I sent to CM. They did not reply to it. They banned my casinomeister account, forcing me to open a new one to explain my side. Casinomeister must be drunk with power and terrified of an honest debate. Please make a fuss if they delete my post and ban me from answering.

    Hello again,

    All you told me was that the casino reported that other accounts attempted to use my moneybookers account. Then you accepted their word against mine.

    The casino has been inconsistent as to the reasons why my winnings were denied. First they said I opened multiple accounts from the same household, IP, or address. Then, they said I had used my moneybookers account to fund other casino accounts not in my name. Lastly, they now say there were attempts to use my moneybookers to fund other casino accounts.

    The burden of proof is upon them. I expect some evidence to be shown before confiscating my money and smearing my name. As I denied each of their claims, no evidence whatsoever was provided. Their first claim has been withdrawn. I can provide my moneybookers statements showing that their second claim is fictitious. As for their third claim, I do not know anyone who would attempt to use my moneybookers to fund their casino account, but if there were such attempts it is likely by hackers or fraudulent casino staff as I keep my information very private. I have heard of peoples ewallets being attacked in this way.

    You have sided with them based on shaky, inconsistent claims backed by no evidence. This reflects very poorly on your arbitration process and I will have to take my claim to another level if you refuse to consider my side.

  2. Mar 26, 2009
  3. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    You were given a chance to respond by MaxD and instead you berated him and provided nothing to support your claim.

    You have one more chance - right here - put up or shut up.
    2 people like this.
  4. Mar 26, 2009
  5. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Geeze - the crap Max and I put up with :rolleyes:

    Here is a part of the response we received from the casino:

    We forwarded this statement to the player to the player. He responded as such:
    We weren't taking their word for it - we were passing along information. You get the information, you accept it or rebut it. The ball is in your court.

    The player chose to offer nothing to refute this claim. He received his last deposit back and Max and I considered this case closed.

    So like Spearmaster said, put up - or shut up.
    2 people like this.
  6. Mar 26, 2009
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    By the way, this is the "member" who PABd

    Last log in 18 March - couldn't get in so he violates the forum's rules and signs up for another account. Doesn't say much for this member's veracity. :rolleyes:

    Instead of emailing me or Max, he chooses to bad-mouth us here. :thumbsup:
  8. Mar 26, 2009
  9. Rhyzz

    Rhyzz Experienced Member

    Online Gaming
    United Kingdom
    Ah you gotta love bonus abusers, they deposit and deposit and deposit until they get a win and then when it comes to withdrawing, they actually think these Casino's are stupid enough to let the money go through.

    I dare say Casino's have some of the finest security checks on the interweb, so I have no idea why they think they can get away with opening multiple accounts...

    Best of luck with this one CM :)
  10. Mar 26, 2009
  11. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    I trust Rival casinos about as far as I can pick them up and throw them, but as far as Bryan goes, it looks to me like he's going/gone out of his way to be fair here, even allowing the OP to post under a DUPLICATE account.

    So much as I hate Rival, let's see some of your proof poster. And I don't mean doctored screenshots of your Moneybookers account page. Funny thing is, reading his story.....it sounds legit to me, and he sounds sincere. But how else is someone who is lying supposed to sound right? :rolleyes:

    I can tell you I am keeping an open mind tibutibu, probably because your case is againt Rival for the most part. If this were a grievance against a casino I have faith in, I wouldn't even be reading this.
    1 person likes this.
  12. Mar 26, 2009
  13. classymom

    classymom Senior Member

    Customer Service
    Port St lucie Florida
    I do like the Rival software and am very interested to see how this plays out.
  14. Mar 26, 2009
  15. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Tibutibu can I ask you something?
    Do you go by a name of Papajoe?
    Why I ask is I never hear bad talk about Pantasia.
    Thank You
  16. Mar 26, 2009
  17. hippo925

    hippo925 Dormant account

    medical field
    so cal
    Yeah, this was the first thing i noticed. Bryan is going out of his way to remain courteous to a poster that seems determined to believe that if it doesn't go his way than everyone is against him.

    It's like going to court and yelling at the judge instead of trying to make your case. You won't get much sympathy if you berate the judge and it usually shows that you didn't have much of a case.

    The OP should appreciate this opportunity and try to help his own case here. I hope everything works out fairly here.
  18. Mar 26, 2009
  19. kmay87

    kmay87 Meister Member PABnononaccred PABaccred2

    I had to laugh at this post.

    You didn't get the response you wanted from CM so you decided to bad mouth them to everyone here. Problem is, we've seen this so many times I can guarantee it won't have the effects you so desired.

    I think what you should realise is that the PAB service is provided FREE. It's Max's and CM's prerogative to decide whether to tackle a PAB or not.

    How I see it - you were busted for doing something against the terms and conditions and that's the end of it as far as the casino is concerned. Max did what he could. but if the casino stated what you claimed, that's the end of the road for your PAB.

    I don't see how the burden of proof is on the casino. They already possess the evidence which lead to them making the 'allegations' so it is up to you to prove they are false.

    People like you wind me up. Abusing casinos of which the repercussions will be noticed by legit players. You got your deposit back, so what more do you want?

    Unless you seriously have done nothing wrong then it's time to give up I'm afraid. Have to ask though - (re the bolded bit) who are you going to take this to then?
    2 people like this.
  20. Mar 26, 2009
  21. Antonia1953

    Antonia1953 Senior Member

    Forensic Accountant (Private)
    The Sonora
    Arbitration is the settlement of a dispute by a person or persons chosen to hear both sides and come to a decision. It is a process. The process was initiated by CM based upon your word. The casino responded with counter reasoning to support their position. They stated that you attempted to use the Moneybooker account with different identifications, which tells me that you tried to make deposits from one Moneybooker account to several different casino accounts under various names. The withdrawal attempts were apparently rejected by Moneybooker, so they are the key to substantiating your position. Why didn't you contact them with the problem first instead of Bryan? How can you even imagine that Bryan can go any further without your response? Apparently, you were looking for instant gratification and thought that Bryan could provide this to you. How the hell could he do that?

    The fact that you did not immediately contact Moneybooker about the accusation tells me that you are avoiding the truth.

    Bryan has been a lot more graceful in this situation than I would have been...your nuts are still intact. Come up with a response from Moneybooker or take a hike JA.

    Human audacity never ceases to amaze me.

    Sorry Bryan if I have broken any rules...edit me as you see fit.
  22. Mar 26, 2009
  23. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Who knows?
    A Vault!
    I would suggest a thread title change here since it has definitely not been proved that Pantasia did in fact steal from this player. Until the player can prove his side of this defamatory statement then that's all it really is.
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 26, 2009
  25. klara1968

    klara1968 Dormant account


    I really do not know who is right and how it will end.I do know that sometimes in life you better admit a mistake or give up your pride and not burn yourself completely...

    1 person likes this.
  26. Mar 26, 2009
  27. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Roulette Player
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Hiya: This is so simple it's funny. The Casino said, "This account has been linked to other accounts in other countries".

    How can accounts be linked? This is differnt from having multiple people playing on the same account. The only way is that when the deposit/withdraw from moneybookers was done it showes up as,
    Casino Acct.
    John Doe, act xxxxxxxxxx, pasword xxxxxxxx.
    money bookers acct
    John Doe, act xxxxxxxxx, password xxxxxxxx

    Then another deposit/withdraw is done/attempted
    Casino Acct
    Joe Blowhard, act yyyyyyyyyy, password yyyyyyyyyyy
    money bookers acct
    John Doe, act xxxxxxxxx, password xxxxxxxxxx,

    Thus 2 seperate people sharing the same moneybookers act info.

    OP: "Yea, but i did not know of this, or it is just a flat out lie"
    Casino, and everyone else: "Prove It".
    OP: " I hate you all" Grrrrrrrrrrrr

    All service providers have transaction records. The money that goes into your account, and where it came from. The money that comes out of your account, and where it went. If someone had hacked into your Money Bookers account, and instead of just taking the money, they decided to gamble with it at, "The same Casino you play at", Then there would be a transaction of it.

    If your $500 was gone from your Moneybooker account, would you not be asking them, "Umm, Where the hell did you send my $500"?:rolleyes:
    1 person likes this.
  28. Mar 26, 2009
  29. Alexander

    Alexander Dormant account

    Golf Professional
    United States
    YOU GOTTA GUN........but "NO BULLETS"

    My Friend(lose term)whomever you are today, I take issue with the fact that you decided to open a new account at CM to kick this dog somemore knowing full well that it was totally against the policies/rules setforth by CM.
    In so doing, you have only lost credibility with the members, and especially with the powers to be that tried nothing more than to help you and your circumstance.
    I waited for quite some time before making this post, with the anticipation of seeing some sort of action(PUT UP) on your part, but to no avail. I was making an attempt to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I must say, was dissapointed.
    You have not only "SHOT THE MESSANGER", but Went to a Gun Fight with a Knife.
    There would have been NO BETTER PLACE to seek assistance with your deliema than CM, but you chose otherwise.
    We have all seen your GUN, but up to this moment.............WHERE ARE THE BULLETS????
    I wish you the best in your endeavors to seek resolution elsewhere. Good Luck.

    NOTE: I take full responsibility for my post, and hold no one liable for these comments, other than myself.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  30. Mar 26, 2009
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    STILL At Leisure
    United Kingdom
    There was a thread here, referring to a debate elsewhere, on the subject of hacked Moneybookers accounts. Moneybookers is considered to have poor security, using an email address instead of an account number. This leaves only ONE level of protection, the password. Neteller has THREE levels of protection, and account number, 6 digit PIN, and password. ALL these can be kept private.
    One thing is different though, the people who had their moneybookers accounts hacked were screaming at MONEYBOOKERS, and NOT a casino. One theme was that Moneybookers sent emails whenever a transaction was attempted, and it was seeing these that alerted some of these players to the fact that something was up.
    One case did involve a hack of a webmail address of a Moneybookers user, with the hacker deleting the tell tale warning messages generated by their attempts to hack Moneybookers.

    It is possible that this case could be that of a player who has had others attempt to hack their Moneybookers accounts. The fact that the casino has these linked accounts in different countries supports the hacking theory, as many player "rings" tend to be localised to a town, or campus, or are friends offline. Using fake ID from different COUNTRIES does not seem to be a good move from a fraudster, since he is really only in ONE country, and would be "screwed" if the "wrong" duplicate casino account was the one he won with. "rings" in a small locality work better since there are several sets of legit ID's, and it is a matter then of providing the appropriate set for the winning account, and ditching all the losing ones, hoping no record is kept. Records ARE kept however, even for accounts that are used once and never again, so that the ID registered can be used for future checks. I believe this is for at least 6 years according to one casino website under "privacy policies".

    The allegations made by the casino are specific, ONE single Moneybookers account has been used to fund otherwise unconnected casino accounts. It is the Moneybookers account that creates the link, making them "linked accounts".

    Moneybookers records, assuming they are similar to Neteller ones, will show transactions attempted to any Rival casinos, and it would be a case of comparing these records with those of the allegedly linked casino accounts.

    Since the OP didn't complain to Moneybookers, one must assume he considered that he had authorised the transactions shown on his Moneybookers account up to this point, and thus if some of these transactions went to these other linked accounts, and the OP didn't question them, the likelihood is that he was able to reconcile them with deposits he knew he had made.

    Unless Moneybookers are prepared to get involved by supplying records that can be guaranteed as "undoctored" of the player's account, then it will not be possible for the player to prove that his Moneybookers account was NOT used on these other casino accounts.

    The strength of the casino's evidence will rest on what details are returned to them with the transaction. In short, are they enough to create a unique identifier as to the funding Moneybookers account.

    Despite calling CM "drunk with power", the OP's DUPLICATE account seems to have suffered little more than a minor negative reputation hit to -5. If CM were REALLY "drunk with power" he would surely have been "drug out into the street and shot".
  32. Mar 26, 2009
  33. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    brain stergeon
    Up a Tree
    how about pantasia stole my pride

  34. Mar 26, 2009
  35. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Who knows?
    A Vault!
    How about "Issue with Pantasia Payout", why not afford them the same courtesy that we would any accredited casino listed here UNTIL they prove to be deserving of that title ??
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  36. Mar 26, 2009
  37. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Manchester UK
    I have bolded the part of your post I agree with so that I can separate from the part I completely disagree with.

    It is up to the player to prove his innocence?

    You think it is legitimate for any Casino to confiscate a players winnings by making any allegation they see fit without accompanying evidence and then it is up to the player to somehow prove these allegations are false?
    That is what you are saying.
    I guess "the what more" he wants are his winnings. :eek2:

    You then rant on about abusing Casinos and people like him wind you up etc.
    Take a chill pill Baby.
    You do not know this person or if their claims are honest or otherwise.

    It is very bad form of the OP to badmouth Bryan and Max in this way and completely unnecessary as you rightly point out the PAB is a free service offered by them so to attack any failings it may or may not have in this way is completely unjust.
    However I am unsure as to why he had his account locked and had to open another account in order to air his grievances.
    Perhaps Bryan can clarify.

    This guy may be a complete A-hole for all I know but I try not to take sides until I know the facts.
    6 people like this.
  38. Mar 26, 2009
  39. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    The player himself claimed he had proof and information to substantiate his claim - but instead he chose to be obstinate.

    It is not necessarily up to the player to prove his innocence - but if he cannot or will not provide evidence to back up his side of the story, he should not expect a ruling in his favor except in extenuating circumstances.

    This is why I asked him to put up or shut up instead of closing the thread and banning his duplicate account. And he has exactly one shot at it, in this thread, and if I don't see any evidence soon I will end up closing the thread anyhow.

    As for the title - we'll change it one way or the other when the time comes.
    3 people like this.

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