Paddy Power Games are big cheaters

Offshore

Full Member
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Europe
This month Paddy Power Games offer the following promotion: Rainbow Riches 5k Promotion (
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). Here are terms and conditions:

* The Rainbow Riches leader board promotion is open to all Paddy Power players who play Rainbow Riches in Real Play Mode at PaddyPowerGames.com only, between 00:00:01 on Monday the 1st of February and 23:59:59 on Thursday the 25th of February.
* The top 20 customers over the promotion period will win 1 of the 20 prizes, in order of placement on the leader board.
* Every time a customer reaches the Road to Riches' bonus round in Real Play mode on Rainbow Riches it will equal one point and will contribute to their position on the leader board.
* The Wishing Well' and Pots of Gold' bonus rounds will not contribute towards participants' total points.
* The leader board will be updated three times a week, on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
* Only stakes on Rainbow Riches will contribute to this promotion. You can find The Rainbow Riches at the below link:
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* The winners will be notified on Friday the 27th of February 2010 and all cash prizes will be credited in their accounts.
* Bonus amount must be wagered one (1) time on Paddy Power Games before it can be withdrawn.
* If a winner(s) is uncontactable on the day of the draw or is found to be ineligible for any reason, a further winner(s) will be selected in their place.
* The winners will be deemed to consent to the use of their username and initials, for publicity and commercial purposes in connection with the promotion without further compensation.
* Entry will be forfeited if players are found to have multiple accounts.
* In the event of any dispute, the decision of Paddypowergames.com will be considered final.
* Paddypowergames.com reserves the right to modify, alter, discontinue or terminate this promotion at any time for any reason whatsoever without notice to players.
* Players, by their participation in this offer, are deemed to agree with these terms and conditions.
* Any players, who, in the opinion of Paddypowergames.com, abuse this offer, will have their entry forfeited and accounts closed.
* Paddy Power employees are not eligible for this promotion.

So the promo was running from 1st of February. And today (February, 16) they suddenly added 1 more rule:

* Due to bonus abuse we have now raised the minimum total stake per bet to 0.20c/0.20p. Any total stakes per bet lower then 0.20c/0.20p will not contribute towards the promotion. This will also affect retrospective bets.

They simply deducted all points collected from the beginning of the tournament with bets lower then 0.20c/0.20p :eek::mad: Thanks God they did it today and not on the last day of the tournament...

Yes, they have the rule that virtually allows them to act as they wish (marked in red), but I seen similar rule in almost all T&C's of tournaments I participated in different places. And it's the first time when I see something like that. I think that most people will agree with the following:

1) If they want to change the rules in the middle of the tournament - ok, let it be (though I still think it's unfair to say the least), but the changes should apply from the time they were made and shouldn't have any influence on the past results.

2) They said that the rules changed "due to bonus abuse". Well, it's not my fault that in the first edition of T&C's I was allowed to play with any stake. It's a fault of people that wrote these T&C's, it's their job and they are paid for it. So why do I have to be responsible for that? If you don't like low stakes then write it clear in T&C's. I've seen similar "minimum bet per round" rules in other places, but they were clearly stated from the beginning of the tournament.

3) What's next? Today they say that low stakes are not allowed, tomorrow all players outside the UK will be ineligible and on the last day they'll finish up with the rule that only people named John Smith (for example) can win any prize. Looks really interesting...

I'm sure that nothing can be done with their decision, so I asked them to at least return my losses during tournament gameplay. They deducted my points, so i think it will be fair to compensate my losses. I was promised to receive their decision by e-mail. I'll post an update when I get a reply.

But even if I'll get my money back, who will return the time that I lost while participating in tournament? I scored over 1200 points (it really took me some time) and was on 5th place. And it doesn't make any sense to continue playing with allowed stakes now, because now I don't have any realistic chance to get in top places.

As a conclusion: think twice before participating in any promotions that Paddy Power offers. Who knows what will be next time...
 

DiamondGeezer

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred2
Joined
May 12, 2007
Location
NOT Pennsylvania!!!
Excellent post. That clearly is plain wrong on PP's part. If they allow you a very easy option like 0.01 stakes you can't expect players to ignore it. And as a player you know other players will be doing the same so what can you do?

This is a very poor decision from a top casino. At the end of the day both players and the casino aer losing out over this. It's unacceptable not to get the rules straight on a competition as straightforward as this.

It's out of character as PP are a great place to play IMO.
 

PPGames

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Location
Ireland
Paddy Power Games Rep

Dear Offshore,

Please let me introduce myself as a representative of Paddy Power Games.

I would like to firstly clear up for other forum users that this is in relation to Paddy Power Games not Paddy Power Casino.

I have personally looked into this query and although I cannot go into specific details of your account in this forum I would like to advise the forum of the situation.

This was an oversight on our part here at Paddy Power Games, we expected players to play at any staking level but with a normal 20 lines in play. As we now know, several players took advantage of this in the promotion.

We appreciate customer loyalty and to keep this loyalty we need to make sure our promotions are fair for all our players as Im sure you can appreciate. Therefore we needed to take appropriate action.

In relation to the retrospective bets on the game we have not taken the points away, we have simply converted them so they match up with a 20p/c total stake to ensure no one loses out on the promotion.

Kind Regards,

PPGames
 

uungy

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Location
Planet Earth (I think)
I can understand that you feel its not fair to other players, but the fact is, you (the comapny) messed up the terms, and therefore, you shhould leave the pioints the way they are, or offer the player the prize (the position the player is) when you decided to change the terms
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Dear Offshore,

Please let me introduce myself as a representative of Paddy Power Games.

I would like to firstly clear up for other forum users that this is in relation to Paddy Power Games not Paddy Power Casino.

I have personally looked into this query and although I cannot go into specific details of your account in this forum I would like to advise the forum of the situation.

This was an oversight on our part here at Paddy Power Games, we expected players to play at any staking level but with a normal 20 lines in play. As we now know, several players took advantage of this in the promotion.

We appreciate customer loyalty and to keep this loyalty we need to make sure our promotions are fair for all our players as Im sure you can appreciate. Therefore we needed to take appropriate action.

In relation to the retrospective bets on the game we have not taken the points away, we have simply converted them so they match up with a 20p/c total stake to ensure no one loses out on the promotion.

Kind Regards,

PPGames

When you design a promotion THINK LIKE A PLAYER! You would have spotted this in SECONDS. This was NOT a wagering contest, it was based on triggering a certain bonus, therefore NOTHING is gained for a player who chooses to make larger bets than is necessary. Players will also play such a promotion efficiently, and if the bonus can be triggered with a single line, that is how they will play.
There is no real "bonus abuse", since players are competing against each other, and if there is a tactic that makes it possible to score more with less risk, it is available to EVERYBODY, so EVERYBODY will have to play harder.

Casinos should avoid changing terms in the middle of an event, and most of all should NEVER resort to RETROSPECTIVE changes. The next time a promotion is run, players will no longer TRUST you to stick to the terms displayed upon commencement, and may decide not to bother playing.

The better approach would be to learn from the mistake, and ensure it didn't happen again. You could even design future promotions with a view to recouping the losses from this one over time.

An example of this approach is Jackpot Factory. If there is an "advantage strategy" in a new promotional format, it quickly disappears in future incarnations of that format - they are learning from how players actually played the previous promo, and are then adjusting future ones.
I have had this confirmed when talking to their VIP support. They know full well who their "best players" are, and look to learn from how they approach such promotions, seeking to evolve them before too many players learn the best way to play them. They also try to have different, and often complex, formulae, so their best players have to use their brains, rather than merely doing what they did last time.

An example of this evolution is the wagering contest. It might start as 1 point per 100 credits wagered, but it will evolve, as they spot that players are resorting to low HE games to wager more efficiently. The evolution would be weighting, so than next time it becomes 1 point per 100 on SLOTS, but maybe 1 point per 1000 on Video Poker/Blackjack, and 1 point per 5000 on Classic Blackjack and All Aces video poker. They will also add other ways to get extra points to encourage higher bets, such as 10 points per payout of 500 credits or more.

THIS promo would have benefitted from similar weighting, such as 1 point per credit that triggered the bonus. Thus, a 1p trigger would get only 0.01 points, 20p would get 0.20 points, and 1 would get 1 point, 5 5 points - and so on.
Although this is similar to the retrospective adjustment, it was poorly handled, and badly communicated to players - who had NO say whatsoever.
 

aldian

Banned User
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Location
Greece
An example of this evolution is the wagering contest. It might start as 1 point per 100 credits wagered, but it will evolve, as they spot that players are resorting to low HE games to wager more efficiently. The evolution would be weighting, so than next time it becomes 1 point per 100 on SLOTS, but maybe 1 point per 1000 on Video Poker/Blackjack, and 1 point per 5000 on Classic Blackjack and All Aces video poker...

You accurately described how advantage players are turning the promotions to crap vinylweatherman.
 

Offshore

Full Member
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Location
Europe
Just want to comment a couple of statements from PPGames' post.

1) "We need to make sure our promotions are fair for all our players". I have to say that the action you've taken produced just the opposite. It gave advantage to players with bigger bankrolls, because it's obvious that with this new rule low-roller players with relatively small bankrolls don't have any chance to get in top places, especially in 25-day long tournament. Moreover, you added this rule on the 16th day of the tournament. If the minimal stake rule was included from the beginning, I'd probably decide not to participate at all, because I'm a low-roller and I think not only me.

2) "We expected players to play at any staking level but with a normal 20 lines in play". You expected that and you obviously made a mistake. Why players should suffer from your mistake instead of you? Maybe I'll tell something new, but definitely not all slot players play at max lines. Peronally I don't see any sense to play at 20 lines on this slot, because it's not necessary for bonus symbols to appear on active payline to activate the feature. But it's my personal opinion on this particular slot.

And I absolutely agree with all posters in this thread.
 
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