Online RTP settings??

As gamblers we have to accept the fact that we will never know *exactly* what is going on whether its online or in a B&M casino. There is just some blindness that will never see the light. Accept it and understand that its part of "gambling"...........Don't give in to the conspirators -- just accept that you will never know for sure, so why sweat it?

Gambling is gambling.

Diane

Nifty often suggests that people wouldnt play at a casino they knew was rigged... I assert, they not only would play at a rigged casino, esp. one they have won b4 at, but this quote above summarizes it... "gambling is gambling" never has more truth and idiocy graced the forum walls here.
 
Nifty often suggests that people wouldnt play at a casino they knew was rigged... I assert, they not only would play at a rigged casino, esp. one they have won b4 at, but this quote above summarizes it... "gambling is gambling" never has more truth and idiocy graced the forum walls here.

Actually, I often suggest that intelligent people wouldn't play at a casino they knew was rigged. Big difference.

Ive seen plenty of idiocy in the forums, but not near as much as I've seen in the blogs.
 
Ok you two, chill TF out! :mad: You both know better that to start swinging the "idiocy" stick around. Keep that crap to yourselves, please and thank you.
 
To exclude the possibility that some casinos could and would adjust the RTP to suit themselves on occasion would be naive. Computers are programmed to do what the operators want and if it the "want" is to raid your wallet, don't you think they could do that? ;)
 
To exclude the possibility that some casinos could and would adjust the RTP to suit themselves on occasion would be naive. Computers are programmed to do what the operators want and if it the "want" is to raid your wallet, don't you think they could do that? ;)

While they could tamper with the rtp they have to cater for customer patronage in the long run. With a low rtp customers are likely to flee in droves after being slaughtered so the operators have to strike the right balance and maximise profits in the long run. No matter how low the rtp is they gain nothing if there are no customers.
 
While they could tamper with the rtp they have to cater for customer patronage in the long run. With a low rtp customers are likely to flee in droves after being slaughtered so the operators have to strike the right balance and maximise profits in the long run. No matter how low the rtp is they gain nothing if there are no customers.

But there will be customers and they will be the ones on the mission to get even with the casino and chase their losses, regardless of the possibilities. The casino understands this and that is precisely how they thrive. They cater to hopes and dreams.
 
While they could tamper with the rtp they have to cater for customer patronage in the long run. With a low rtp customers are likely to flee in droves after being slaughtered so the operators have to strike the right balance and maximise profits in the long run. No matter how low the rtp is they gain nothing if there are no customers.

Don't waste your time Chu. :)
 
Actually, I often suggest that intelligent people wouldn't play at a casino they knew was rigged. Big difference.

Ive seen plenty of idiocy in the forums, but not near as much as I've seen in the blogs.

I think ur suggestion illustrates a pov that is unaware of, or more likely smugly dismissive of certain impulsive character types. I would also argue that a base intelligence would be required to detect a certain riggedness. But anyway kinda irrelevant since there is yet another reason one might play at a less than random site; previous win history at the site....

BTW...Do u troll any other forums? Ur quite entertaining when I don't take it personally.
 
... smugly dismissive ... kinda irrelevant ...Do u troll any other forums?

You were perfectly aware that this continued baiting had to stop and I warned you repeatedly what the consequences would be if you continued. Well, you've continued and now you're outta here for 90 days. As we've said time and again, find a new attitude or find somewhere else to post. Attach Removed (Old not found)

In case anyone is wondering Bryan has been flagged on this so he'll know ASAP what's happened here.
 
I thought I would give an update on this comment made by "bowlingbob" above.

After 30 minutes of searching regulations at both the CCC and the DGE web sites I just couldn't read anymore, so I emailed the CCC yesterday and got this response today:


Dear Mr. xxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail to the Casino Control Commission. Because of recent changes to the Casino Control Act, the responsibility for handling day-to-day matters has shifted to the Division of Gaming Enforcement. I am forwarding a copy of this response to the DGE so that they can respond to your inquiry. In addition, you can reach the DGE by telephone at 609 894-0909.

Please let me know if I can be of additional assistance.


I'll wait for the response by e-mail since I would rather have it in writing, or at least be directed right to it. Will update as soon as I hear anything.




Received this e-mail today from the Division of Gaming Enforcement:


Mr. xxxxxxxx,

Good morning. I have received your email request and have forwarded it to our Technical Services Bureau for reply. Lisa

Lisa Spengler
Administration
New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcment
 
In the past any requests for gambling information was always handled just by contacting the Casino Control Commission. Apparently Governor Chris Christie made some modifications earlier this year.



TRANSITION INFORMATION


Amendments to
Casino Control Act
N.J.S.A. 5:12-1, et seq.
On February 1, 2011, Governor Chris Christie signed into law a bill that modifies many provisions in the Casino Control Act, N.J.S.A. 5:12-1, et seq. As a result of these modifications, the Division of Gaming Enforcement (DGE) will be assuming numerous functions that had been overseen by the Casino Control Commission (CCC) and other functions/requirements will no longer exist. To provide information about this transition, the Division has established a separate page that contains a host of relevant information, including a copy of the bill, a means to pose questions and provide information to the Division, a list of FAQs, and a link through which CCC employees can indicate their interest in possible employment opportunities with the Division.

We will update the Transition Page as appropriate so we encourage all interested parties to review this page if they have questions regarding the transition

QUESTIONS:

If you have questions regarding the transition, please check our FAQs first. If you cannot locate the answer to your questions, please Contact Us:
 
Just got this from the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement:

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx,

Thank for your email regarding slot machine regulations. New Jersey regulations currently permit server supported slot systems, meaning approved software may be downloaded to a slot machine by a casino licensee. These regulations were temporarily adopted and may be found using the following Internet link: Old / Expired Link

Please be aware that no server supported system is currently approved for use in New Jersey, nor do our regulations permit server based gaming where the RNG resides on a central server that is controlled by a casino licensee. The Division of Gaming Enforcement does expect to see some form of server supported gaming in the future. However, when this occurs the system will first need to meet strict regulatory requirements and then be operated with appropriate oversight by the Division.
Thank you for your inquiry.

Very truly yours,
Eric Weiss
Technical Services Bureau Administrator and Lab Director
 
Click on the link in post above and go down to the third set of regulations, "Server Supported Slot Systems" You could read all the requirements for server based systems. It covers any and all questions one might have about the system.

I pulled this text out:

Prior to the loading or installation of any software on a slot machine server, the software in question will have to be verified by a Commission representative using an independent verification device approved by and under the control of the Commission and the Division. The device will verify each digital signature on the software to ensure that the software is an authentic copy of the software that was approved for installation and use on the slot machine server.

In all cases, any changes will have to be made in the presence of at least two individuals, one of whom will be an employee of the casino licensee’s MIS department, and one of whom will be a Commission representative. See N.J.A.C. 19:46-2.4(e).


In addition I sent my request on August 31, and received all information within 3 days. This is how enforced regulation works.

This also confirms what "bowlingbob" said here: "with modern technology land-based casinos CAN and DO change the payback percentages on the fly with Server based network systems". should be considered as false information at least under the regulated jurisdictions of New Jersey.

Considering online is operating on a server based program, could anyone here tell me how their software programs are being monitored?

Looks like land-based regulators have an awful lot of regulations in place to stop corruption with this network programming system. Wonder what their so worried about.
 
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Read through some more of those regulations for server based slot machines in New Jersey and found this regulation also interesting.


The slot machine server will be under dual key control of the casino licensee’s MIS department and the Commission.


That RTG owner a year ago told us that only the owners of 4 or 5 RTG online casinos were issued a key that would give them access to the super user program within the software where all changes to the software programs are conducted. He never mentioned anything about needing present another key from a regulatory commission to activate it.

In fact that RTG operator demonstrated in real time how he changed the RTP on the fly for any game he picked within the "Real Series" games software. Even if the change he made was only improving the house hold by 4 percentage points, I had snap shots of these changes being performed within the super user program in real time with the dates and times on the super user program itself proving it being done in real time. One would wonder if the players using that software or server were disconnected (you know that box that pops up and says you were disconnected by an administrator) during his demonstration the 30 seconds it took him to do it. I could only assume their wasn't a regulator present watching him demonstrate this program via the internet.

I did send copies of these shots to Bryan for review when I received them.
 
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Read through some more of those regulations for server based slot machines in New Jersey and found this regulation also interesting.


The slot machine server will be under dual key control of the casino licensee’s MIS department and the Commission.


That RTG owner a year ago told us that only the owners of 4 or 5 RTG online casinos were issued a key that would give them access to the super user program within the software where all changes to the software programs are conducted. He never mentioned anything about needing present another key from a regulatory commission to activate it.

In fact that RTG operator demonstrated in real time how he changed the RTP on the fly for any game he picked within the "Real Series" games software. Even if the change he made was only improving the house hold by 4 percentage points, I had snap shots of these changes being performed within the super user program in real time with the dates and times on the super user program itself proving it being done in real time. One would wonder if the players using that software or server were disconnected (you know that box that pops up and says you were disconnected by an administrator) during his demonstration the 30 seconds it took him to do it. I could only assume their wasn't a regulator present watching him demonstrate this program via the internet.

I did send copies of these shots to Bryan for review when I received them.

Come on 4OAK. Let's not open that can again.

Bryan has dealt with it previously and I don't want to see the hats handed out again.
 
Come on 4OAK. Let's not open that can again.

Bryan has dealt with it previously and I don't want to see the hats handed out again.


Yes Nifty, you're right. He did get a different explanation from a different RTG operator concerning the coupon default page. (Note: Not a regulators explanation)

Not sure what I was thinking yesterday when I made my last post. Maybe I was just having a quick conspiracy relapse. :confused:

Disregarding my relapse post, I think throughout this thread I demonstrated with confirmed facts (posted in thread) to most what it would take for online gaming to become transparent and the dire need for real regulation and real regulation enforcement. If online gaming decides to keep things in the future as they presently are, then you should expect nothing less then another decade of endless conspiracy threads. I then would also try to learn how to cope with and have more "patients" {Adjective: bearing provocation, annoyance, misfortune, delay, hardship, pain, etc., with fortitude and calm and without complaint, anger, or the like} with victims, and scamming players. (since no one is stopping them either)

Over the last couple of years we know that the Kahnawake Gaming Commission has finally decided to take some baby steps in the right direction helping disgruntled punters with issues related to bonuses and payments. It also appears that the UK is also noticing the need for regulation change. That in itself is a great thing, but only half of the online problem. Experienced educated online punters have learned where to play to avoid those types of problems for the most part. Yet, gaming software integrity could only be achieved with real and serious regulation and enforcement as demonstrated by the land based N.J. C.C.C., and the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement.

It would be nice to know that maybe some day in the future, that not only the short list of online gamblers that are members of forums like this knowing where it's best and presently safest to play, but everyone, everywhere, should have the exact same opportunity without having to get screwed first.

When anyone decides to visit Atlantic City in N.J., other then searching out hotel costs, no one is searching to find out which casinos might be fooling around with the software (cheating) or not paying their winners at the cage. That doesn't even cross their minds. It's sad when you stop and think how many online gambling rookies think its the same when they decide to visit and play online.

I rest my argument.
 
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Read through some more of those regulations for server based slot machines in New Jersey and found this regulation also interesting.


The slot machine server will be under dual key control of the casino licensee’s MIS department and the Commission.


That RTG owner a year ago told us that only the owners of 4 or 5 RTG online casinos were issued a key that would give them access to the super user program within the software where all changes to the software programs are conducted. He never mentioned anything about needing present another key from a regulatory commission to activate it.

In fact that RTG operator demonstrated in real time how he changed the RTP on the fly for any game he picked within the "Real Series" games software. Even if the change he made was only improving the house hold by 4 percentage points, I had snap shots of these changes being performed within the super user program in real time with the dates and times on the super user program itself proving it being done in real time. One would wonder if the players using that software or server were disconnected (you know that box that pops up and says you were disconnected by an administrator) during his demonstration the 30 seconds it took him to do it. I could only assume their wasn't a regulator present watching him demonstrate this program via the internet.

I did send copies of these shots to Bryan for review when I received them.


4OAK this is the most credible explanation I have heard from you on the RTG super user issue and I would not be atall surprised to discover it is exactly as you say. I remember we had the same thing at Rival where they were changing blackjack rules when JHV was playing. And ofcourse there was the Absolute scandal. If you are playing at RTG casinos based in Costa Rica you would be a bit naive IMO if you believe such things are not possible.

That said it is my belief that RTP changes would more likely to be global than for individual accounts but perhaps you know more about that than I do. And I believe groups like Jackpot Capital and Clubworld are too big and successful to need to resort to tactics like this. I also doubt that few others would bother even if they could because I believe it is actually bad for business and will lower their hold in the long run. My guess is they make more money from slots set at 95% than 91% because at 91% they will start to lose too many customers to other casinos.

However if you are a high roller playing in a non accredited RTG then you ought to be concerned. If a Rival could tamper with JHV's account when he was playing for high stakes then why not at RTG? But then again the fact you are playing in an unregulated jurisdiction should also be ringing alarm bells - big time. But most USA players must know this and accept the risks I guess.

4OAK I think you have showed a lot of class in choosing not to play until you can be certain you are getting a fair game. And I applaud and support your call for regulation. If the industry is to prosper then surely the days of Malta and Costa Rica need to come to an end soon before something really bad happens that could set the industry back years like we had with Absolute.
 
Guess I’ll be more specific with details regarding that RTG owner/relationship, and put that also to rest. I might be falling off a cliff here, but after reading DiamondGeezer's post decided it was necessary to make this post and try to clear things up.

I personally didn’t know or ever spoke directly to this RTG casino owner. An x friend of mine (x = no longer a friend of mine since I betrayed him by making this incident public) actually had this personal relationship with an RTG casino owner. My x friend and I were both long time online gamblers and both of us agreed on many topics concerning the lack of integrity within online gaming in all its different forms.

Although being privy to them, I’m unable to get into the details concerning the arrangement my friend and the owner made. Soon afterwards my friend was given a demonstration via skype and then sent me screen shots of it throughout. In time allegedly more information was going to be exposed.

Growing impatient waiting for more information, and with the information I already had received I started to try and corner casino reps in threads using back door tactics concerning game integrity, since I was pretty pissed off. This is when I e-mailed all the reps that were active on this forum and tried to get them to participate in a thread I created. This also is when I became a problem since it would be obvious to some that I was striking a certain nerve with my posts, or at least that’s what I was being told. Through personal conversations I was actually convinced once or twice to retract statements I made in posts. In fact one of my posts were written for me, actually making myself look foolish and I was begged to stay away from making additional posts on that topic. This is also the time when I vanished for awhile from this forum.

I couldn’t wait to break this news and was disappointed with my friend not wanting to act with it. My friend knew I was an advocate for online regulation enforcement and that I was convinced there was corruption being practiced. I also felt there was no need to gather more information since once we publicized the screen shots RTG would be exposed. I’m not sure why my friend would have thought my reaction would have been anything less, but convinced me to remain silent. (At least during that time)

Whether nothing was happening or I was put out of the loop, I crew impatient and decided to then send on my own a few of the screen shots to Bryan for an opinion. Bryan then asked me for my o.k. if he could forward them to a friend at RTG for an opinion. I gave Bryan the O.K. to forward them because personally I really didn’t give a shit about this RTG owner or what may happen to him if he were exposed. If what he said and demonstrated about the software was true, then he was a crook and a scumbag and deserved whatever would happen to him and RTG. If what he said was in fact false then he still was a crook and a scumbag for misleading and stealing from my friend.

A few days after Bryan forwarded those shots to RTG, I was contacted by my friend since he knew the shit hit the fan at RTG, obviously from a conversation he had with the owner sending me a copy of that conversation confirming an investigation being done by RTG and how they knew where the source of the screen shots came from. He knew I was responsible since the screen shots of the super-user program were involved and I was the only other person that had them. Of course I immediately told him everything I did. Not sure how RTG nailed the casino so quick since I was certain to erase any and all identifying names and numbers before sending them to Bryan, and never telling Bryan where I in fact got them from. This is also the time the shit was hitting the fan with the alleged threats of safety.

Although I knew Bryan was going on a vacation for a few weeks when I sent him the screen shots, and did eventually get a brief explanation from Bryan; I wasn’t happy with it and actually wasn’t sure if Bryan was part of what I was thinking was a cover up. I know how foolish those thoughts are, but at this point and with all the chaos that took place, I’m sure anyone else in my shoes would have considered the same.

As time went by and everything was remaining silent, I said screw everybody and everything and posted just the “coupon default” page here with the explanation I was given. We all know what happened from that point on, and how I achieved the Tin Hat award, and eventually got banned for 30 days.

I have no idea what happened to that owner, except only that not long after this incident took place that particular RTG casino is no longer operating under the RTG software brand. Was this a coincidence or a direct result of what took place? I have no idea.

What this owner explained about that “Coupon Default” program made sense, and so did Bryans RTG friends explanation. It’s obvious that my screen shots standing alone could confirm nothing.

The whole problem here is that bullshit like this whole incident could even take place in the first place being a multi-billion dollar industry where trust is an important part of it.

If just this incident alone doesn’t cry out loud for regulation and enforcement, especially when combined with the thousands of negative threads over the years, and numerous presently confirmed rogue operators; you being a volunteer gambler in this type of extremely possible venue could very easily become a victim of foul play.

Just take a minute (actually much longer) and read through those NJCCC gaming regulations and realize the endless requirements needed to be enforced just to protect the integrity of the games, and to keep the operators honest with land based casinos.

Like I said before, based on the regulations in place for land based operators, its obvious the NJCCC couldn’t trust the operators any further then they could spit. And lets not forget it’s just not the owners their worried about, it’s all the employees and technicians that are needed that are hands on contributors that make the whole thing work in the first place. Remember Ronald Harris the Nevada programming technician that altered the source code for slot machines in the early nineties?

I realize there are many people out there other then the operators making money off the backs of online casinos. I also realize there are some proven honest operators along with some big enough to trade publicly. That alone though is not good enough and with no doubt all online casinos should be forced to adhere to the same rules under all circumstances.

With the multi million dollar scandals that were not able to be contained and exposed already within online gaming, should be enough to convince players of their capabilities without regulation enforcement.

Regardless how honest or crooked any one online casino might be known for presently, their options, and the unlimited opportunities for corruption within are endless while operating under the umbrella of “self regulation”.

Sorry, but history proves that gambling being solely implied under the realm of trust, is like trying to mix oil with water.
 
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Read through some more of those regulations for server based slot machines in New Jersey and found this regulation also interesting.


The slot machine server will be under dual key control of the casino licensee’s MIS department and the Commission.


That RTG owner a year ago told us that only the owners of 4 or 5 RTG online casinos were issued a key that would give them access to the super user program within the software where all changes to the software programs are conducted. He never mentioned anything about needing present another key from a regulatory commission to activate it.

In fact that RTG operator demonstrated in real time how he changed the RTP on the fly for any game he picked within the "Real Series" games software. Even if the change he made was only improving the house hold by 4 percentage points, I had snap shots of these changes being performed within the super user program in real time with the dates and times on the super user program itself proving it being done in real time. One would wonder if the players using that software or server were disconnected (you know that box that pops up and says you were disconnected by an administrator) during his demonstration the 30 seconds it took him to do it. I could only assume their wasn't a regulator present watching him demonstrate this program via the internet.

I did send copies of these shots to Bryan for review when I received them.





"In fact that RTG operator demonstrated in real time how he changed the RTP on the fly for any game he picked within the "Real Series" games software. Even if the change he made was only improving the house hold by 4 percentage points, I had snap shots of these changes being performed within the super user program in real time with the dates and times on the super user program itself proving it being done in real time. One would wonder if the players using that software or server were disconnected (you know that box that pops up and says you were disconnected by an administrator) during his demonstration the 30 seconds it took him to do it. I could only assume their wasn't a regulator present watching him demonstrate this program via the internet."

I did send copies of these shots to Bryan for review when I received them.





WOW! When this breaks!
 
Great Post. What you have done obvirously have significant meaning to players in a positive way.
:thumbsup:
If we tolerant on these kinds of "inside dealing" undisclosed, this will be the tomb stone of entire online gaming industry.
No trust so no business.
 
Once I was playing at a Rival casino and betting $18.75 a spin on As The Reels Turn for a few wild hare spins. Suddenly right in play my max bet was limited to $7.50. No exit no disconnection. Creepy to think someone could have been watching me, guess it could be an automatic program more likely. But from that moment on I realised that this stuff is possible even if it does require a big leap to start thinking about changing RTP settings.

I still believe RTG is fair and random in the RNG sense but these stories about RTP being configurable to different settings do to me appear credible. Some years ago there was a story doing the rounds that Blackjack was configurable from 4 to 255 decks. This may sound horriffic but I since read that even at 255 decks the HA is not affected that much, I have forgotten the exact details unfortunately. I think the HA was still under 1% with 255 decks. But obviously a 4% change on slots would be a totally different ballpark, especially if the player is on a long bonus playthrough.

I really don't want this discussion to turn sour so do want to restate my position which is I don't have any evidence personally. Certainly nothing like this has ever happened to me on RTG and my playing experiences have been good with some decent wins alongside normal losses.

My position is that if anything like this were to happen then how would anyone get to know about it under the present unregulated setup in Costa Rica? As far as I know there is no RTP monitoring in Costa Rica (hope I am wrong on this!). Which is clearly enough to give doubts. I limit my play to accredited RTP's and when Bryan gave us the assurance about CW operating on 95% that was good enough for me.

Certainly the whole situation is not good as there are a lot of casinos out there and also many players not aware of this forum. Look how long the Absolute scandal ran for before it was detected. US players in particular ought to take this stuff seriously. We can't afford to take the view it will never happen while Costa Rica remains unregulated.
 
"In fact that RTG operator demonstrated in real time how he changed the RTP on the fly for any game he picked within the "Real Series" games software. Even if the change he made was only improving the house hold by 4 percentage points, I had snap shots of these changes being performed within the super user program in real time with the dates and times on the super user program itself proving it being done in real time. One would wonder if the players using that software or server were disconnected (you know that box that pops up and says you were disconnected by an administrator) during his demonstration the 30 seconds it took him to do it. I could only assume their wasn't a regulator present watching him demonstrate this program via the internet."

I did send copies of these shots to Bryan for review when I received them.





WOW! When this breaks!

Bryan dealt with this some time ago and has seen it already....and he assessed it as being pretty much a deposit of colonically-processed waste material.

Sorry to burst your bubble Dave.....you'll just have to keep on playing to find more evidence.
 

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