Online RTP settings??

[Nifty29]

<sigh> An interesting (if repetitive) conversation derailed again by personal squabbling, discourtesy and "ganging up" perceptions.

Can we get back to the topic - I know this has been turned over again and again, but it's an important subject and new views and information usually refresh the debate.

***


Anyhoo.....

The main problem is that there is no credible evidence that online RTPS are altered on the fly either on a daily or even session basis, nor whether they even can be.

The only basis that people who believe the "conspiracy" have for such beliefs is that "the slots don't pay like they used to" or "the bonus rounds pay nothing anymore", which is 100% perception based, and conveniently dismisses the fact that the payout potential of newer slots and bonus games is higher than five years ago. Yes, it will seem like less wins, but those wins will be bigger.....but we never remember the wins when we've just had a loss.

I've heard exactly the same claims made by players in land based casinos and clubs for a decade, and yet the legislated RTP of slots here haven't changed in all that time. Operators CANNOT change anything involving payback, so how do you explain the continual "they've tightened up the games" complaints?

Some people talk up the land based slots, but it has been shown repeatedly that online RTPs are better, and I know this from experience.


***

 

[felicie]

Wow, that's a tough question, Felicie. I would have thought that some of my posts here had value. Otherwise you would look fairly stupid, since you have, in fact, thanked me a time or two.

Why don't you set up a poll and we'll have to see what others think!

It's all a big popularity contest is it? well thanks, that explains a lot. cheers.

 

[chuchu59]

I would rather the two of you show your photos here and a beauty contest be set up instead.

 

[maxd]

It's all a big popularity contest is it? well thanks, that explains a lot. cheers.

HELLO! What part of "let's get back on topic" is not clear?
If you want a "kvetch and derail" thread then please do so elsewhere, otherwise enough of that here. Please and thank you.

 

[bowlingbob]

Below is a list of regulations that New Jersey must abide by to lower or change their RTP settings. This alone pretty much confirms in New Jersey it can’t be done on the fly.


In Atlantic City the payback percentage is 83%. Most slots pay in the neighborhood of 90% over time, but the point here is that regulatory agencies do not allow a casino to flip a switch and change the payback percentage. The regulators want to reliably know that machine #xxxxx will operate in X manner and will pay back X percentage over time. No surprises. No mysteries.

And how do the regulators enforce the rules? Let's look at how the process is handled in New Jersey...

Every RNG in Atlantic City is individually certified and sealed by New Jersey’s Division of Gaming Enforcement. A casino CANNOT change a machine's payback unless the casino does the following...

• The casino makes an application to the DGE.
• The machine is opened under DGE supervision.
• The DGE breaks the processor's seal and supervises the program/chip replacement.
• The DGE creates a new seal, and re-certifies the machine.

The Division of Gaming Enforcement maintains a database of every slot machine in the state of New Jersey. The specific payback percentage of every machine is part of that database. Every RNG is numbered and tracked.

The above procedures are typical for most regulatory agencies throughout the U.S.

This is simply not true anymore. Yes in the old days to change a machines RTP required all the above what you are saying but with modern technology land-based casinos CAN and DO change the payback percentages on the fly with Server based network systems. Now for most casinos this is a very expensive but profitable upgrade and at present moment not all casinos have upgraded. But rest assured within a few years the majority of land based casinos will have some form of server based gaming in effect. Now from my understanding the machine does have to be shut down for a few minutes while the new RTP is being downloaded into the machine so it just can't be done while the customer is playing. If you don't think this is happening and want proof check out this video from Bally, one of the top manufactures of slot machines in land based casinos.

Look closely at around 1:30 as they show a close up of the menu and you can clearly see you can change the RTP from the command center software.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[4 of a kind]

This is simply not true anymore. Yes in the old days to change a machines RTP required all the above what you are saying but with modern technology land-based casinos CAN and DO change the payback percentages on the fly with Server based network systems. Now for most casinos this is a very expensive but profitable upgrade and at present moment not all casinos have upgraded. But rest assured within a few years the majority of land based casinos will have some form of server based gaming in effect. Now from my understanding the machine does have to be shut down for a few minutes while the new RTP is being downloaded into the machine so it just can't be done while the customer is playing. If you don't think this is happening and want proof check out this video from Bally, one of the top manufactures of slot machines in land based casinos.

Look closely at around 1:30 as they show a close up of the menu and you can clearly see you can change the RTP from the command center software.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I'm sure land based networks just can't go and change RTP's on the fly without notifying regulators, as per regulations clearly specify. The stand alone machines that required individual chip replacement as per above may be changing, but the regulations weren't just thrown out of the window because of new technology. I will look into what regulated protocol is necessary for land based casinos with networks to follow to actually change RTP settings.

What is scary about that technology is being in the hands of unregulated online casinos.

Blowingbob's comment above that "land-based casinos CAN and DO change the payback percentages on the fly with Server based network systems" is a perfect example of a person not doing any research where research can be achieved. Unlike online casinos where no research is achievable.

 

[4 of a kind]

***


Anyhoo.....

The main problem is that there is no credible evidence that online RTPS are altered on the fly either on a daily or even session basis, nor whether they even can be.

The only basis that people who believe the "conspiracy" have for such beliefs is that "the slots don't pay like they used to" or "the bonus rounds pay nothing anymore", which is 100% perception based, and conveniently dismisses the fact that the payout potential of newer slots and bonus games is higher than five years ago. Yes, it will seem like less wins, but those wins will be bigger.....but we never remember the wins when we've just had a loss.

I've heard exactly the same claims made by players in land based casinos and clubs for a decade, and yet the legislated RTP of slots here haven't changed in all that time. Operators CANNOT change anything involving payback, so how do you explain the continual "they've tightened up the games" complaints?

Some people talk up the land based slots, but it has been shown repeatedly that online RTPs are better, and I know this from experience.


***

The other problem is that there is no credible evidence that online RTP's can not be altered on the fly.

On the one hand you state that online players who believe RTP's are being lowered without proof is based on 100% perception. Then you counter with "it has been shown repeatedly that online RTP's are better, and I know this from experience". Since that statement is being based on your own personal experiences without proof, wouldn't that too have to be based on 100% perception?

There is nothing wrong with changing RTP's be it higher to attract new customers, or lowered to improve the house hold. The only problem is players wanting to know the rules regulators will enforce for such changes. When everyone knows their are no rules being enforced, the doors are wide open for the players (especially losers) imaginations to take over.

 

[Nifty29]

The other problem is that there is no credible evidence that online RTP's can not be altered on the fly.

On the one hand you state that online players who believe RTP's are being lowered without proof is based on 100% perception. Then you counter with "it has been shown repeatedly that online RTP's are better, and I know this from experience". Since that statement is being based on your own personal experiences without proof, wouldn't that too have to be based on 100% perception?

There is nothing wrong with changing RTP's be it higher to attract new customers, or lowered to improve the house hold. The only problem is players wanting to know the rules regulators will enforce for such changes. When everyone knows their are no rules being enforced, the doors are wide open for the players (especially losers) imaginations to take over.

***

I said experience not perception. Perhaps I should have said results. I played online sparingly in the early days as I wasn't brave enough to risk my money with people I don't know or can't see, but I spent a load in land based slots (which are legislated at 86-88% depending on venue).

Since I moved to almost exclusively online gambling, I have spent far less and actually came out ahead in a couple of years. Hence, I compare my results from games that I KNOW pay 88% to the ones I BELIEVE pay ~95% and see a very clear distinction. It is my experience based on concrete facts.

I also know from reading these forums for over a decade that many players do not know "how to play" and this has an enormous impact on the bottom line, but that same reading and attempts to assist and educate to help these players has been met with "ehh fooey" or "shill" or some other pointless res
ponse....which is why I don't bother these days. It's far easier to lose all your money/bankroll and blame the casino/software/operators for cheating or "rigging" (my fave btw) the games.

At the end of the day, if one doesn't think the games are "as advertised" then one has the choice to cease playing online. I respect you for having the courage of your convictions. Most members of the "its rigged brigade" just piss and moan because they're too lazy, ignorant or dense to make an effort to understand what they are risking their cash on.....and I have no time for them at all. I'm happy to debate you however as I know you aren't just ranting because you lost, but rather you are speaking from a viewpoint that you have obviously researched and put effort into.

CM forums have always been full of people swearing black and blue that the RTPs have been lowered. If they were all right, then we would be at about 10% now which is obviously laughable. So, what makes all of them wrong, and all the recent proponents of this theory right?


***

 

[LHofsdal]

I think when it comes to certain platforms, the ones who post their stats, because it is public, when and IF they do change it will be public knowledge. It is the ones like RTG who doesn't post their stats, that make people people think it can be changed.

With all the recent developements with US authorities, I am sure all casinos have been effected by this. Some casinos even closed, some reputable casinos at that. But, how many RTG casinos have you seen close due to this? Do you think these RTG casinos could have changed their RTP's to accomdate the sign of the times?

These places are in business to make money, just like a grocery store. Here in the US when gas prices shot up through the roof, prices on everything went up. They had to cover the higher delivery costs some how. With RTG hiding everything how do we know if they did this or not? We just don't know.
I am sure adjustments had to be made by these casinos, but no one really knows where these adjustment have taken place.

I am sure each deposit and withdrawl cost the casino money, and with processors vanishing, and sometimes with alot of money that is not theirs, it has to be costly for the casinos. They are going to have to get back this money somehow. Without being as transparent as other platform, RTG leaves themselves wide open for all types of speculation. Whether is it good or bad, they are the ones who refuse to come out and be transparent like others.

Without any type of concrete evidence, no one really knows. And I truely believe that there are some players that would bet their life on it that was changed, and then their are other players who want evidence before their make their decision. Either way until RTG becomes more transparent, we are always going to have this debate. It is for the most part a good debate, with a few bumps in the road, but until the hard facts come out, everything at the moment is pure speculation.

Just sayin'
LH

 

[daveboz]

This is simply not true anymore. Yes in the old days to change a machines RTP required all the above what you are saying but with modern technology land-based casinos CAN and DO change the payback percentages on the fly with Server based network systems. Now for most casinos this is a very expensive but profitable upgrade and at present moment not all casinos have upgraded. But rest assured within a few years the majority of land based casinos will have some form of server based gaming in effect. Now from my understanding the machine does have to be shut down for a few minutes while the new RTP is being downloaded into the machine so it just can't be done while the customer is playing. If you don't think this is happening and want proof check out this video from Bally, one of the top manufactures of slot machines in land based casinos.

Look closely at around 1:30 as they show a close up of the menu and you can clearly see you can change the RTP from the command center software.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

"Now from my understanding the machine does have to be shut down for a few minutes while the new RTP is being downloaded into the machine so it just can't be done while the customer is playing"

I think your on to something here! This explains why there are so many administrator disconnections at RTG casinos that occur either in the middle of play or upon clicking back to return to the main lobby.

 

[Nifty29]

"Now from my understanding the machine does have to be shut down for a few minutes while the new RTP is being downloaded into the machine so it just can't be done while the customer is playing"

I think your on to something here! This explains why there are so many administrator disconnections at RTG casinos that occur either in the middle of play or upon clicking back to return to the main lobby.

Looks like you really got 'em this time Dave......right by the goolies.

We now have irrefutable evidence that RTG casinos change their rtp on the fly. We now also know that there are hundreds of administrators watching each player to monitor their win/loss ratio.

The game is finally up. 4OAK can get the first good nights sleep in a year, and we can all move our play to other softwares.

Thanks dave for saving us all from ourselves

 

[chuchu59]

If we are talking about rtg whilst it is not entirely possible to prove they have tampered with the rtp settings I believe they are tempted to do so because their loyalty (if you want to call it that) rests with the casino operators. Reputation counts for little to them. The thread on CDS just about sums it all. Clearly they will be pressurised by the casinos to reduce the rtp unnoticingly thus improving their profit margins. Many of us here know about the rng thing but why is it not possible to have it altered to say a weighted rng where the huge wins are scarce. I can only comment on games I regularly play at and have noticed that there are 2 slots with reduced rtps; Diamond Dozen which I had mentioned several times before elsewhere obviously has less of 2 blue diamond scatters than before. There are 2 blue scatters in each of the 1st and 2nd reels so chances are they should occur together quite frequently. If you hit one in the first reel chances are you wont hit one in the 2nd reel 9 times out of 10. Given that this combination pays 2x your bet the rtp can be reduced a bit and over the long run losses can be substantial. How they are able to do this is another matter.

As for T-rex most wins come from the appearance of this beast in the middle reel. While I am not certain how many t-rexes there are in the middle reel I am sure there should be more than 1. However, in recent play, this dinosaur seems to have vanished from the slot appearing on far fewer occasions than previously. Its still early days yet but I keep depositing $20 with a bonus and bet 0.25 to see for myself whether my assumption is correct. No Dave I aint gonna bet $5 a spin to prove my point. Too costly.

I am aware that the above proves nothing. However, next time you play theses slots be on the lookout for what is mentioned above. You should also play your fav slot and tell us about your observations. However, it is best to be armed with some knowledge of the slot first before discussing. IMO it is fruitless to say I didnt get a feature in xxx spins or the feature I finally got paid only xx my bet. These things do happen and the point made stems from frustration more than anything else. Hehe, I am off to deposit $20 again. What slot do you guys reckon I should try?

 

[Tengil]

RTG can change the RTP on the fly. But thats only for BJ AFAIK by disconnecting and changing the number of decks (up to 255 or was it 199). Changes the RTP a bit.

By allowing that and other stuff like disconnecting and changing the max bets (sometimes to zero) and offering different RTP settings its no surprise that RTG keeps popping up in discussions like this.
They have created the problem all by themself and will never get fully trusted until they remove those options from the operators.

 

[daveboz]

If we are talking about rtg whilst it is not entirely possible to prove they have tampered with the rtp settings I believe they are tempted to do so because their loyalty (if you want to call it that) rests with the casino operators. Reputation counts for little to them. The thread on CDS just about sums it all. Clearly they will be pressurised by the casinos to reduce the rtp unnoticingly thus improving their profit margins. Many of us here know about the rng thing but why is it not possible to have it altered to say a weighted rng where the huge wins are scarce. I can only comment on games I regularly play at and have noticed that there are 2 slots with reduced rtps; Diamond Dozen which I had mentioned several times before elsewhere obviously has less of 2 blue diamond scatters than before. There are 2 blue scatters in each of the 1st and 2nd reels so chances are they should occur together quite frequently. If you hit one in the first reel chances are you wont hit one in the 2nd reel 9 times out of 10. Given that this combination pays 2x your bet the rtp can be reduced a bit and over the long run losses can be substantial. How they are able to do this is another matter.

As for T-rex most wins come from the appearance of this beast in the middle reel. While I am not certain how many t-rexes there are in the middle reel I am sure there should be more than 1. However, in recent play, this dinosaur seems to have vanished from the slot appearing on far fewer occasions than previously. Its still early days yet but I keep depositing $20 with a bonus and bet 0.25 to see for myself whether my assumption is correct. No Dave I aint gonna bet $5 a spin to prove my point. Too costly.



I am aware that the above proves nothing. However, next time you play theses slots be on the lookout for what is mentioned above. You should also play your fav slot and tell us about your observations. However, it is best to be armed with some knowledge of the slot first before discussing. IMO it is fruitless to say I didnt get a feature in xxx spins or the feature I finally got paid only xx my bet. These things do happen and the point made stems from frustration more than anything else. Hehe, I am off to deposit $20 again. What slot do you guys reckon I should try?

What I've noticed about RTG lately is exactly that.. Ridiculous amounts of spins without a feature. What you will T Rex, he shows up a lot in that middle reel. What I'm finding lately is when he does show up there are hardly any other beasts on the first two reels. That really cuts into payout. Always get two crowns on 4 and 5 on Realms of Riches too Pays nothing. I'm also thinking RTP is player specific at RTG. If you win, expect to start losing. Ever hit a 50X bet during a spin than lose 15 in a row?

 

[chuchu59]

What I've noticed about RTG lately is exactly that.. Ridiculous amounts of spins without a feature. What you will T Rex, he shows up a lot in that middle reel. What I'm finding lately is when he does show up there are hardly any other beasts on the first two reels. That really cuts into payout. Always get two crowns on 4 and 5 on Realms of Riches too Pays nothing. I'm also thinking RTP is player specific at RTG. If you win, expect to start losing. Ever hit a 50X bet during a spin than lose 15 in a row?

Exactly that. For the nayers we have to be more specific and spell in detail why we think something is wrong though I tend to not agree that the software is player specific. It would take an extremely intelligent version to do that.

 

[4 of a kind]

***

Since I moved to almost exclusively online gambling, I have spent far less and actually came out ahead in a couple of years. Hence, I compare my results from games that I KNOW pay 88% to the ones I BELIEVE pay ~95% and see a very clear distinction. It is my experience based on concrete facts.



CM forums have always been full of people swearing black and blue that the RTPs have been lowered. If they were all right, then we would be at about 10% now which is obviously laughable. So, what makes all of them wrong, and all the recent proponents of this theory right?


***

Your clear distinction compared to land based and online casinos are being based on slot play and after several years of play should be respected by others. I'm also certain that my decade of what some might consider compulsive action while playing online was video poker and should also be respected. The problem is respect is one thing and actual facts are another. Although our opinions based on long term experiences that should be respected; it is still possible that luck was the deciding factor.

I certainly couldn't give an opinion about online slots being compared to land based casinos, nor could I give an opinion about online video poker compared to land based slots. When I visit land based casinos the only time I played video poker was to take a break from live table action and or poker. I very rarely played video poker at land based casinos, and still today couldn't make a fair comparison.

When I was first introduced to online casinos, of course I jumped into BJ, craps, baccarat, let it ride, 3 card poker, and immediately within a month or two felt the outcomes weren't even close to land based. I then gave video poker a go of it, and was very happy with the play time and for the most part the outcomes. I then went on to master the video poker games I enjoyed and the rest is history.

I have flawless records of all my gambling during this time, which includes land based, online, horses, and lottery gaming. I would never post these records for more reasons than one. I could only confirm that after 7 years of playing online video poker for the same amounts of money and time and being satisfied with the outcomes, did the next two years of doing the same confirm for me that something beyond normal expectations was in place. Based on the number of hands I played there was no doubt in my mind that things had changed online. From being use to hitting between 15 and 20 royal flushes a year for seven years, I suddenly was reduced to 3 to 5 for the next two years with the same action.

Those facts are hard to accept since video poker is not even supposed to be based on preset RTP settings. Regardless of some of the pay tables being reduced, each card still is suppose to have only 1 number assigned to it leaving the rest only up to the RNG.

This is what convinced me that video poker online software could be programmed in ways I'm not familiar with. Without having regulations being enforced controlling and confirming facts, I had no option but to take the stance of rigged.

Edit: On a side note I would like to add that for most of the first seven years playing online it was 98% being played at the original Golden Palace casino. Things didn't start to go sour till not long after the UIGEA was passed and I moved to RTG.

 

[Nifty29]

What I've noticed about RTG lately is exactly that.. Ridiculous amounts of spins without a feature. What you will T Rex, he shows up a lot in that middle reel. What I'm finding lately is when he does show up there are hardly any other beasts on the first two reels. That really cuts into payout. Always get two crowns on 4 and 5 on Realms of Riches too Pays nothing. I'm also thinking RTP is player specific at RTG. If you win, expect to start losing. Ever hit a 50X bet during a spin than lose 15 in a row?

What you describe is within expectations.

If you think they control rtp on a per-player basis, you are not only deluded, but the next spin you take on an RTG slot makes you appear extremely foolish. I mean, who would knowingly play a rigged game?

 

[ShayDrew]

What I fail to understand is:

1) Why would Casino's need to adjust RTP when they already have an edge and they would turn away players with continual losses?
2) Why do people that are CONVINCED that Casino's do adjust RTP play at said Casinos?

I think we all need to understand that AT BEST we are looking at 95% RTP - for people such as me in NZ by the time I have currency conversion charges etc the overall RTP will drop further for me, but the reason I play? ENTERTAINMENT! Anyone who plays to make money is deluded in my opinion - unless you win Mega Moolah/Mega Fortune you will only ever lose in the long term - and although its a nice surprise when your $50 turns into $500 and you buy something nice with it - when I deposit my $50, buy my 6 pack off beer and a bottle of wine for the wife we think "time to relax and a cheap night in" and that is all!

If you seriously think you are going to win big playing ANY form of gambling - then you probably shouldn't......

 

[Nifty29]

What I fail to understand is:

1) Why would Casino's need to adjust RTP when they already have an edge and they would turn away players with continual losses?2) Why do people that are CONVINCED that Casino's do adjust RTP play at said Casinos?
I think we all need to understand that AT BEST we are looking at 95% RTP - for people such as me in NZ by the time I have currency conversion charges etc the overall RTP will drop further for me, but the reason I play? ENTERTAINMENT! Anyone who plays to make money is deluded in my opinion - unless you win Mega Moolah/Mega Fortune you will only ever lose in the long term - and although its a nice surprise when your $50 turns into $500 and you buy something nice with it - when I deposit my $50, buy my 6 pack off beer and a bottle of wine for the wife we think "time to relax and a cheap night in" and that is all!

If you seriously think you are going to win big playing ANY form of gambling - then you probably shouldn't......

1) Simple...they don't.

2) Simple....because they have a serious gambling problem and need to apportion the blame for their losses to other parties, negating the need for them to face their addiction, and hence continue gambling without taking responsbility for it. Also, there are some who are incredibly dense and ignorant who just ignore the facts because they don't, or can't, understand them.

Nobody wins in the long run, except for the cheats and fraudsters (refer to such sites as bleating bonuses etc) who take +EV bonuses on dozens of accounts. Anybody who says they are constantly ahead, especially slot players, are playing with themselves IMO.

 

[ksech]

There can be small exceptions to that rule though Nifty...
you can have the recreational player who knows WHEN to call it quits, hits the cashout button and walks away. The next time plays for a bit, gets a few bucks ahead, does the same. BUT, this would have to be a very disciplined person (which most gamblers are not).

I do, however, agree with your statement that the addict is the one who will cry rigged, cheat, etc. because they need someone other than themselve to blame for their losses. They will almost always chase that ever elusive win, and will drive down the road of self-destruction. Hopefully, they will realize the mistake they are making and be able to pull themselves out of trouble before they face losses they can't recover from (loss of family, home, job, or what-have-you).

 

[3mptyseat]

answers

What I fail to understand is:

1) Why would Casino's need to adjust RTP when they already have an edge and they would turn away players with continual losses?
2) Why do people that are CONVINCED that Casino's do adjust RTP play at said Casinos?

1) To maximize profits and control variance and its potential damage on slower nights/days/seasons.

2) Because every land-based casino that legally is allowed to, does.

 

[takethemoney]

1) To maximize profits and control variance and its potential damage on slower nights/days/seasons.

2) Because every land-based casino that legally is allowed to, does.

Your last part must be true. My wife used to work as a slot attendant at an Indian casino. They would staff less on weekends, on some shifts
when they had the most business. She said they had more people working and more jackpots paying on weekday nights, especially right before
the weekend, then on weekends you would often have the place packed with very few jackpots being paid out, hence the need for less staff.
Weekends are the cash cow for the casino when they have the most bodies playing the machines and then is likely that the RTP is set the lowest.

 

[Nifty29]

Your last part must be true. My wife used to work as a slot attendant at an Indian casino. They would staff less on weekends, on some shifts
when they had the most business. She said they had more people working and more jackpots paying on weekday nights, especially right before
the weekend, then on weekends you would often have the place packed with very few jackpots being paid out, hence the need for less staff.
Weekends are the cash cow for the casino when they have the most bodies playing the machines and then is likely that the RTP is set the lowest.

Now there's concrete proof if anyone wants it

1) To maximize profits and control variance and its potential damage on slower nights/days/seasons.

2) Because every land-based casino that legally is allowed to, does.

Nobody says they don't ever do it. Everyone knows they are allowed to pursuant to regulatory requirements.

The IIRC (International It's Rigged Campaign)...pronounced "irk"...insist that its done as one is playing, and that an admin is watching everyone play and adjusting accordingly. Totally fanciful.

 

[4 of a kind]

with modern technology land-based casinos CAN and DO change the payback percentages on the fly with Server based network systems.

I thought I would give an update on this comment made by "bowlingbob" above.

After 30 minutes of searching regulations at both the CCC and the DGE web sites I just couldn't read anymore, so I emailed the CCC yesterday and got this response today:


Dear Mr. xxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail to the Casino Control Commission. Because of recent changes to the Casino Control Act, the responsibility for handling day-to-day matters has shifted to the Division of Gaming Enforcement. I am forwarding a copy of this response to the DGE so that they can respond to your inquiry. In addition, you can reach the DGE by telephone at 609 894-0909.

Please let me know if I can be of additional assistance.

I'll wait for the response by e-mail since I would rather have it in writing, or at least be directed right to it. Will update as soon as I hear anything.

 

[4 of a kind]

Now there's concrete proof if anyone wants it



Nobody says they don't ever do it. Everyone knows they are allowed to pursuant to regulatory requirements.

The IIRC (International It's Rigged Campaign)...pronounced "irk"...insist that its done as one is playing, and that an admin is watching everyone play and adjusting accordingly. Totally fanciful.

That's the whole problem Nifty. There may very well be regulatory requirements in place, but who do you know that actually read any of them?

We know there are some legit online casino operators out there, but without knowing for fact that there are regulatory requirements in place along with regulatory monitoring and enforcement, the doors will forever be open for the IIRC with endless new members joining everyday.

It must be a very frustrating position to be in for the honest operators that are out there. Imagine investing into an online casino with good intentions, then find yourself swimming in a giant fish tank surrounded by starving sharks.