Casino Complaint Online Roulette, is it a scam?

Flax80

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Helllo,
I am interested in some feedback regarding online roulette and why there are so many complaints, and so little is done.

First of all, yes I have lost a lot. And that is why I had to check further.

These are my accusations and there are some links to videos further down I hope you care to watch;

1. EVG operates from Latvia, while most "casinos" operate from Malta. So who is actually responsable to make sure all is random and not rigged?
A. AGCC does not regulate games in progress, I am very curious who does.
B. Why should online casinos not cheat if there is no control? Lets be honest, many people and companies you never would have thought should cheat do. So in all fairness, a non casino licenced studio in Riga that operates as a casino should draw some attention. I can mention; Sub Prime loans, VW and diesel, Juventus, Lance Armstrong, Absolute poker a s o.
C. There are so many ways of rigging a roulette wheel. Please look at videos. Moving ball is the best. Magnetic pockets is also an easy way.
D. Before each spin EVG has insight in all bets(fact) I guess they easily can make sure ball does not land on number with biggest payout.

In my own video from Live Roulette you can see how the ball suddenly is stuck in the middle of pocket. I have never seen this in real life. If this does not draw some attention from others I understand nothing.

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My video;
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Cheers
 

KasinoKing

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B. Why should online casinos not cheat if there is no control?
Why would online casinos cheat when they have a money making machine?

Roulette is a very simple game. And compared to slots - a VERY low variance game.
That means over a relatively very low number of spins (compared to a slot) it will hit it's TRTP.

So basically over the long term the casino has a game which makes them 2.7% of every single bet placed on every single spin of the wheel.
It's a licence to print money! :thumbsup:

Why go to the trouble to rig the game and take the risk of getting caught cheating when you've got guaranteed income?

I'm no expert on Live Roulette - but we have someone on the forum who is: Neilw
I have alerted him to this thread...

KK
 

Flax80

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Why would online casinos cheat when they have a money making machine?

Roulette is a very simple game. And compared to slots - a VERY low variance game.
That means over a relatively very low number of spins (compared to a slot) it will hit it's TRTP.

So basically over the long term the casino has a game which makes them 2.7% of every single bet placed on every single spin of the wheel.
It's a licence to print money! :thumbsup:

Why go to the trouble to rig the game and take the risk of getting caught cheating when you've got guaranteed income?

I'm no expert on Live Roulette - but we have someone on the forum who is: Neilw
I have alerted him to this thread...

KK

Thanks for swift response.
Ok, but why does anyone cheat? To make more money.
And my point is that there is no control here, so how can they get caught?

Take a look at the videos. It shows how easy it is.
 

neilw

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Hi Flax80,

I have an interest because I'm an Affiliate and I promote Live Casinos and Live Roulette. It's not in my interest to be promoting things if the casinos or software providers I'm recommending are cheating.
I'm going to try and answer your questions as best I can, and perhaps you can help me by providing me with some more insight into your complaints.

Helllo,
I am interested in some feedback regarding online roulette and why there are so many complaints, and so little is done.
Firstly, how many complaints are there, what are the sources and where can they be found.? For that I mean real complaints that have been taken up with real evidence with the Game providers or Licensors. I don't mean people posting a video and bitching about it online, with no substance other than some recording of something strange happening on a wheel.

In my experience we only ever see one possible reason claimed for something strange happening in these Videos, and that's Cheating. But there is another alternative that never gets discussed, and that is that something else has happened! We never see that video posted or discussed.

First of all, yes I have lost a lot. And that is why I had to check further.

These are my accusations and there are some links to videos further down I hope you care to watch;

I'm not sure these are accusations, just a lack of knowing what's going on, so I'll try and help as best I can.

1. EVG operates from Latvia, while most "casinos" operate from Malta. So who is actually responsable to make sure all is random and not rigged?
A. AGCC does not regulate games in progress, I am very curious who does.

Evolution gaming has studios in Latvia, Malta, Canada and Romania to name a few. They are a Swedish based company, with head offices in Riga. They are licensed by loads of different jurisdictions including the MGA and UKGC. All of the licensors have strict standards that Live Casino operators have to adhere too and they can audit on a planned basis or do spot checks which they do.

I'm not sure what you mean by "regulate games in progress". AFAIK monitoring of games in progress is only performed by the operators themselves, and that is generally for compliance, Fraud and customer support reasons.

B. Why should online casinos not cheat if there is no control? Lets be honest, many people and companies you never would have thought should cheat do. So in all fairness, a non casino licenced studio in Riga that operates as a casino should draw some attention. I can mention; Sub Prime loans, VW and diesel, Juventus, Lance Armstrong, Absolute poker a s o.

I can't argue about there being cases of companies and individuals cheating. It's possible we all know. It's also true of some online casinos who've been caught using fake games. It's also not outside the realms of possibility that a live dealer studio could be cheating, but I've yet to see any credible evidence.

C. There are so many ways of rigging a roulette wheel. Please look at videos. Moving ball is the best. Magnetic pockets is also an easy way.

Quite true, but is there any concrete evidence to support that anyone is using any of theses methods?

D. Before each spin EVG has insight in all bets(fact) I guess they easily can make sure ball does not land on number with biggest payout.

I'd like to see how the dealers can manipulate the ball. The monitoring that goes on by Evo itself to ensure the game is fair and not tampered with is comprehensive, there would have to be collusion on a company wide level for any cheating to occur.

In my own video from Live Roulette you can see how the ball suddenly is stuck in the middle of pocket. I have never seen this in real life. If this does not draw some attention from others I understand nothing.

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My video;
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[

Cheers

I think you're just looking for any evidence to support your claims of cheating. That could be anything causing the ball to sit like that in the wheel. It's unusual I grant you, but not evidence of cheating, that's one hell of a leap to take from just seeing that.

I can't really help you as I've not seen anything that leads me to believe Evo or any of the other operators are cheating. I'd never rule it out, but I don't understand what they would gain by it. They would lose far more being caught than by cheating on the odd spin of a wheel.
 

Flax80

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Thank you, and some additional info

Hi Flax80,

Hello and thank you for swift response.

I have an interest because I'm an Affiliate and I promote Live Casinos and Live Roulette. It's not in my interest to be promoting things if the casinos or software providers I'm recommending are cheating.
I'm going to try and answer your questions as best I can, and perhaps you can help me by providing me with some more insight into your complaints.

Ok, I will do.


Firstly, how many complaints are there, what are the sources and where can they be found.? For that I mean real complaints that have been taken up with real evidence with the Game providers or Licensors. I don't mean people posting a video and bitching about it online, with no substance other than some recording of something strange happening on a wheel.

Have you looked at youtube? Look for videos that accuse EVG of using magnets etc. Read the comments on videos. Thousands of complaints.

In my experience we only ever see one possible reason claimed for something strange happening in these Videos, and that's Cheating. But there is another alternative that never gets discussed, and that is that something else has happened! We never see that video posted or discussed.

True, howeveR we, the gamblers have only one videostream. EVG could easly prove me wrong if they wanted to. I have asked 50 times. But they only refer me back to operator, Betsson or who ever then again has to ask back to EVG again...
It is so complicated set up so that players do not bother..... And no information is ever available.



I'm not sure these are accusations, just a lack of knowing what's going on, so I'll try and help as best I can.



Evolution gaming has studios in Latvia, Malta, Canada and Romania to name a few. They are a Swedish based company, with head offices in Riga. They are licensed by loads of different jurisdictions including the MGA and UKGC. All of the licensors have strict standards that Live Casino operators have to adhere too and they can audit on a planned basis or do spot checks which they do.

Ok, so how strickt are these standards? I have now tried to investigate this a bit and the fact is that it is expensive to get a licence, but strickt? How? Gambling is as shady as prostitution and drugs, we all know that. I have watched hours and hours of online roulette both playing and observing. We are talking loads... I have never seen these audits you mention and witch I also have requested endless times. I have however seen same number 4 times in a row, followed by same number 3 times in a row. Ball stopping in middle of pocket like my video. Jumping magic balls etc... If these audits are real, I think odds should be better of me seing one then this quadroupel hit.... 1-1,7 million are the odds...

I'm not sure what you mean by "regulate games in progress". AFAIK monitoring of games in progress is only performed by the operators themselves, and that is generally for compliance, Fraud and customer support reasons.

my point exactly, there is no external audit...

I can't argue about there being cases of companies and individuals cheating. It's possible we all know. It's also true of some online casinos who've been caught using fake games. It's also not outside the realms of possibility that a live dealer studio could be cheating, but I've yet to see any credible evidence.

This evidence you are asking for. How on earth is it possible for me or anyone else to find such evidence whene all we get in feedback from videos etc that it is not proof. So I have asked EVG to take a magnet and hold it next to the ball. It would take them 10 seconds.... But not an option. Why? because it is rigged.


Quite true, but is there any concrete evidence to support that anyone is using any of theses methods?

I say my video is proof. take an egg and a needle. Try and balance the egg on top and run around your livingroom in a circle. That is probably as hard as landing the ball same spot as my video. Never ever in casino history has that happened. It is impossible due to centrifugal powers and normal gravity. There is a reason for ball always landing in end of pocket, not in middle like this.



I'd like to see how the dealers can manipulate the ball. The monitoring that goes on by Evo itself to ensure the game is fair and not tampered with is comprehensive, there would have to be collusion on a company wide level for any cheating to occur.

I have another video where suddenly live VIP roulette table is covered by a big black movable wall. And cameras are shut off. Could only be maintenance, but if so and if they try and keep all so open and honest why not keep cameras on???? And for the record, I could set up this scam by use of magnbets etc without any dealers knowing...



I think you're just looking for any evidence to support your claims of cheating. That could be anything causing the ball to sit like that in the wheel. It's unusual I grant you, but not evidence of cheating, that's one hell of a leap to take from just seeing that.

Unusual? It is impossible.... And since I lost and this magic only happens in RIGA..... Yes I am looking for evidence.

I can't really help you as I've not seen anything that leads me to believe Evo or any of the other operators are cheating. I'd never rule it out, but I don't understand what they would gain by it. They would lose far more being caught than by cheating on the odd spin of a wheel.

That is my point, they do it to make more money... Greed...
There is no control or external audits. I gues that is why they put studio in Latvia. They are not concidered a casino there, so they only operate as a vido studio(FACT).
All operators are only here to make money, as much as possible. They do not care one bit about players as long as they loose. If they win, good they will loose more...
This is why we in Norway do not allow these Malta companies etc to operate here. There are so many examples of them taking advantage of gamblaholics.
So I have no doubt in them knowing that EVG cheats and being in on it. They also make more money.... I guess that is why they use EVG, so they are guaranteed a better income from Live Casino then doing it themselves. Because if EVG is caught, they can say they did not know....
 

spoton

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While I agree that Latvia issn't the most trustworthy country, I guess the reason why the casinos are put there are probably because of laws, low wages, not so strict rules etc. Some of the dealers sounds like they are on amphetamines the way they talk constantly.
 

neilw

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While I agree that Latvia issn't the most trustworthy country, I guess the reason why the casinos are put there are probably because of laws, low wages, not so strict rules etc. Some of the dealers sounds like they are on amphetamines the way they talk constantly.

You gotta explain that. What do you mean that Latvia isn't the most trustworthy country?
 

Vibroverb

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You gotta explain that. What do you mean that Latvia isn't the most trustworthy country?

Why? Because of the Cold War, everything 'east' was deemed unsafe, cheaters, the worst of the worst. But I don't think this applies anymore, why would a Casino in Latvia be any worse than some Casino in Amsterdam? It's more likely to do with the cost to the casino, Latvia probably has better deals to built studios like that than Stockholm.

By the way, I was in Bucharest recently and they have numbers of online Casinos based there, as well as Customer Service 3rd party companies for some top Casinos that offer games in the UK.

Globalisation
 

spoton

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You gotta explain that. What do you mean that Latvia isn't the most trustworthy country?

Most of the ex-soviet states still have a certain degree of poverty and corruption compared to Western Europe. That being said, I don't trust a business located in Malta as much as one located in e.g. UK or Sweden either.

The best option would indeed be to have local legislation so neither casinos or live gambling halls would be located in more or less corrupt tax havens just so their owners can maximize their profits while minimizing what they give back to the society.
 

Flax80

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Why? Because of the Cold War, everything 'east' was deemed unsafe, cheaters, the worst of the worst. But I don't think this applies anymore, why would a Casino in Latvia be any worse than some Casino in Amsterdam? It's more likely to do with the cost to the casino, Latvia probably has better deals to built studios like that than Stockholm.

By the way, I was in Bucharest recently and they have numbers of online Casinos based there, as well as Customer Service 3rd party companies for some top Casinos that offer games in the UK.

Globalisation

Some feedback;
1. Cost of the casino? People in Latvia make more money then people in Malta. Both have "normal" casinos. Why not have "video studio" in Malta? Perhaps Casinos could do it themselves to save money...EVG does not do this for free. Bu t I guess since EVg probablyy guarantees a better win ratio for the house then a "rel" casino it is worth it.....
I say they are rigged and have this business model so that no one ever audits them... And if caught they can all blame EVG that just go under, while all operators such as Betsson etc can just say they did not know and so trustworthy etc.
 

neilw

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Some feedback;
1. Cost of the casino? People in Latvia make more money then people in Malta. Both have "normal" casinos. Why not have "video studio" in Malta? Perhaps Casinos could do it themselves to save money...EVG does not do this for free. Bu t I guess since EVg probablyy guarantees a better win ratio for the house then a "rel" casino it is worth it.....
I say they are rigged and have this business model so that no one ever audits them... And if caught they can all blame EVG that just go under, while all operators such as Betsson etc can just say they did not know and so trustworthy etc.

Playtech, Luckystreak and Evolution all have studios in Riga.

Evolution, Portomaso (Wirex) and NetEnt have Studios in Malta.

All the studios and games are audited by the regulators they are licensed with. It's part of the terms of the license and if you dig around the UKGC website you'll find the
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that have to be adhered to.

You clearly believe that Evolution are cheating and that's your right, but until you can produced hard evidence to prove your accusations I won't be contributing to the thread anymore.
 

susanjbo

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They don't need to cheat, all they do is reduce the payout %%% for that game. Roulette might only be paying back 20% that day, whilst keno is paying out 125% And the amount you get shafted depends how long you want to keep pumping in funds into a dead horse.

I know where I live its law that each pokie have the daily estimated payout %% for that game. 99,9% of people don't bother checking, nor to pubs and clubs tell you how to access the menu.
 

Flax80

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Playtech, Luckystreak and Evolution all have studios in Riga.

Evolution, Portomaso (Wirex) and NetEnt have Studios in Malta.

All the studios and games are audited by the regulators they are licensed with. It's part of the terms of the license and if you dig around the UKGC website you'll find the
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that have to be adhered to.

You clearly believe that Evolution are cheating and that's your right, but until you can produced hard evidence to prove your accusations I won't be contributing to the thread anymore.

I respect you telling me that I need to find hard evidence....
Not sure how to do that. Either I have to fly down to Riga, break in there and open the table to prove this. Problem is that studio use EX military personell to clean tables, so guess I will not make it very far...
So that is why I had hoped someone like you or others with influence actually asked EVG 1. if they could please let someone have an unanounced control of ball/ table. And 2 ask them how it is possible for a ball to land like my video shows..... It is impoossible-...

Futher

The new trick
Now-days the roulette balls are made of piezoelectric ceramic. The material used is BaTiO3 on the surface, and BaSO4 on the inside for insulation.
The ball caries a polarized surface charge when hit by an ultrasonic sound wave. This wave is sent from the inter-digital transducers placed in the spoons (pockets) of each number. They send a wave to the ball that polarizes the surface with a negative charge. The spoon of the number is also negative, therefore the ball jumps out through electrostatic repulsion.
Each number pocket has a switch which is controlled by a transistor called IGBT. This transistor turns on the switch so that the spoon in negatively charged. The casino leaves the pockets that it wants the ball to go in neutral, or switch off.


Be naive and think all is so legit and that they run this without cheating. I say again, gambling business is all a scam...
 

goatwack

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As much as I don't trust computerized Blackjack or Roulette, when it comes to 'live' games I fail to see the long-term benefits of rigging the games at such a high risk.

When you think of the millions of manual spins spun annually it makes very little sense to implement such detailed subterfuge to make a few grand more, when- as mentioned- the games mathematically print money by themselves.

Short of the Pit Boss waggling his finger furiously, shaking his head and the dealers picking the ball from the winning positions and placing them on a number of their choosing, I really fail to see how online games can be fixed :cool:
 

Pēteris Bērziņš

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Some feedback;
1. Cost of the casino? People in Latvia make more money then people in Malta. Both have "normal" casinos. Why not have "video studio" in Malta? Perhaps Casinos could do it themselves to save money...EVG does not do this for free. Bu t I guess since EVg probablyy guarantees a better win ratio for the house then a "rel" casino it is worth it.....
I say they are rigged and have this business model so that no one ever audits them... And if caught they can all blame EVG that just go under, while all operators such as Betsson etc can just say they did not know and so trustworthy etc.

Mr Flax80, I think you are incredibly dumb.
1. People in Latvia don't make near as much money as people in Malta, neither there is some tax haven or whatever. Studios cost less to rent, people get paid less because of the situation(Our country minimum wage is 400 euros in that area, in Malta it's quite a bit more ;) )
2. If you really believe all your claims or whatever that those studios are cheating, then you are probably brain damaged more or less.
3. Your just a sore loser looking for a reason why you lost, If you gamble, it should be for fun, if it's not fun but investigation for you, I suggest you stay away from online/live casinos ;)
 

philanderknox

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1. The Cold War was a load of bollocks. Don't bring politics into this if you don't know what you are talking about.

2. Roulette does not need to be bent, it was designed by freemasonic intellectuals to be almost totally unfathomable, with a built in house edge.

3. From the evidence I have seen, the people of the Baltic States have a lot more class than many of us 'Westerners'

4. You can make money at roulette, but the secret to that is within you.
 
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