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Online Roulette and Baccarat Systems that work ?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Deej, Feb 14, 2005.

    Feb 14, 2005
  1. Deej

    Deej Dormant account

    Location:
    USA
    Hello,

    I was wondering if there are any online Roulette and/or Baccarat Systems that work well ? I have tried a few different Roulette Systems online that worked for a while, but then I lost all of my winnings in the long run. If there are any, please let me know the names and where I can find them.

    Thank You,
    Deej
     
  2. Feb 14, 2005
  3. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Deej, there aren't any. You'll always lose in the long term unless you're incredibly lucky.

    Just thought I'd jump in before any scam artists get the chance to reply.

    If you want to make money from on-line casinos without needing luck then playing with bonuses which give the player an edge is the only proven 'system'.
     
  4. Feb 14, 2005
  5. Deej

    Deej Dormant account

    Location:
    USA
    Vesuvio,

    Thank you for your honesty and the heads-up. I greatly appreciate it.

    Deej

    :D
     
  6. Feb 14, 2005
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    And let me jump into this thread while it's still fresh.

    There are no "systems" that work. There have been a load of arguments pro and con concerning this topic in this forum. Believe me, you'd be better off playing the stock market.
     
  8. Feb 14, 2005
  9. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    The only system is a good knowledge of basic strategy for the game you are playing. Learn the rules, learn the basic strategies.

    Bonuses can help or hurt depending on the wagering requirements.

    I had access to a backend for a short time a couple of years ago, and I watched people play Blackjack, and I was horrified. They had no idea and were playing by hunches and losing and losing....

    So, learn the odds of your available moves and play according to them. It's the only thing that will definitely help.
     
  10. Feb 15, 2005
  11. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    The truth about betting systems: You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  12. Feb 15, 2005
  13. chandra8000

    chandra8000 Dormant account

    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    I am a long time Baccarat player and I have seen almost every system imaginable.
    If you are lured by what a system claims, do not look at how it wins but figure out what it loses to (they all lose to something). Once you have that then calculate how often that loss will occur and how much that loss will cost you. Then see if you still have a profit (and this does not take into account human mistakes, panic and general loss of control).
     
  14. Feb 15, 2005
  15. XANATOS

    XANATOS Dormant account

    Location:
    ARIZONA
    i am new to this forum
    and i hate to be disagreeable
    but there are working roulette systems
    at least there is one its mine
    and it is not for sell
    i started working on it when i was 13
    when i recievd a roulette game as a gift
    it took me five years to develope my system playing
    for fun
    when i turned 22 i played it for money
    and have every since
    i have yet to try it online but that is soon to change
    in fact its going to change tonight :thumbsup:


    XANATOS
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2005
  16. Feb 17, 2005
  17. bokske

    bokske Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electronics engineer
    Location:
    Belgium
    Eradicating the myth of the House edge

    I am convinced that all the naysayers really mean what they say, and that their answer is a well-intended advice not to rely on systems. People with this opinion have probably come to this conclusion after a long time of gambling and likely some experiments with systems of their own. Too bad that the truth is still one step beyond.

    This discussion is all about two mathematical properties of whatever gambling proposition :
    1. The average House edge on each single play
    2. The expected average result for a specific playing algorithm on this game
    Many people intuitively equate one to the other in the blink of an eye. WizardOfOdds is only one of so many websites to perpetuate this falsehood.
    I contend that these two figures are quite different. Therefore, a game with a built-in disadvantage can still be played with a positive statistical expectation about the average result in the long run. I posit that a system (a.k.a. playing algorithm) can slant the House edge in either direction. But it's harder to find a specific system to sway this House edge several percents in the positive direction, than just half a percent. Therefore it's still useful to look out for games with a very small negative expectation value.

    It's actually difficult to construct a system that yields exactly the same expected overall result as the House edge. I think the best way to go would be a strategy of always playing exactly 1 betting unit on some chance. Any deviations from this scheme probably cause a difference between the two said mathematical properties.

    A last line of thought to win over the diehard pessimists. Do you think it's possible to construct a system with a worse expected overall result than the House edge ? As an extreme case, could you construct a system that always loses the entire initial deposit (expected overall result = -100%). I would think along the lines of "keep playing forever, no matter how much you win, until all your money is gone". But this is mathematically not watertight I guess, as there could be this one lucky streak that keeps piling money into your account and never reaches those end criteria. Still, many people must feel that it's easy to define a playing algorithm that loses twice as much money as it wins (expected overall result = -50%). Admitting that, is admitting that the two mathematical properties are NOT the same.

    It's probably ill mannered to refer to a "better" forum in my very first post.
    Let's just say that those who want to really delve into the mathematical details, should google for "Deep mathematical thoughts on systems".
     
  18. Feb 18, 2005
  19. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Wow! This is quite a statement! Please read an introductory book on probability. It will be a very good investment as it will stop you from losing a lot more money in the casinos.

    If you play a negative expectation game long enough, you WILL LOSE your whole bankroll, lucky streaks nothwithstanding, it is just a matter of time. (For details again see a book on probability.)
     
  20. Feb 18, 2005
  21. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    If a game has a mathematical edge of 5.26% then you will win 94.74% of all money bet on it over the long run. Period. Unless you either cheat, exploit a fault in software or otherwise manipulate it in your favour. Any "system" that relies on a random event will lose exactly the HA over enough time.
     
  22. Feb 18, 2005
  23. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    You mean I should stop clicking my heels together three times, reciting Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" backwards, keeping one eye closed and wearing a dress next time I'm playing Roulette?

    Bugger.

    The bloke who I paid $99 for that information said it did something special and magic to the algorithm - which meant I won more. I feel violated. :(
     
  24. Feb 18, 2005
  25. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    If you're going to try and spam something can't you at least check it works first? One hopeful google later... nothing, nada, zip.

    I did find somewhere you might aspire to, though :thumbsup::
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  26. Feb 18, 2005
  27. bokske

    bokske Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electronics engineer
    Location:
    Belgium
    My sincere apologies, Vesuvio.
    I blindly assumed that the title of the thread I launched elsewhere would automatically show up on Google. My bad - I should have checked. :(
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Now that you've brought it up, another important advice to OP Deej. I strongly dissuade you to buy any "winning" system from online scammers. These are worthless repetitions and recombinations of systems that have been known publicly for ages, and that have often been proven unprofitable. Science should be discussed in public and for free - that also applies here, to the subchapter of mathematics called Game Theory. Over at the forum I just mentioned, there is a huge collection of system descriptions for your free browsing.The folks over there are big on a commercial simulation program (not a commercial system) called Roulette Extreme, and you'll find snippets of algorithm code for this package all over the place.

    I'm using my own C simulation program with a standard set of 100,000 roulette spins that I believe to be fair. Many beginning system builders "discover" the Martingale progression for themselves (it has actually been described as early as the 18th century). I'm terminally stuck in that phase, and the current best result of my incessant simulations occurs with an appalling required bankroll of $20,000 for a $1 min and $500 max limit table. It uses Martingale progression on 9 pairs to be selected at will - ending criteria are 2 wins for each pair. This setup is totally out of the question for practical purposes, but at least it adds some weight to the theoretical debate. I have less favorable but still positive results for the same setup, only with a $5000 bankroll. It's a step in the good direction, but I'm still finetuning my search to have a profitable system that requires a bankroll of no more than, say $2000. From that moment on, I want to focus my efforts on an automatic computer player following this algorithm - a bot. After the astonishing adventures of PirateC21 described only here on CasinoMeister, I'd better make damn sure about the regulations for the online casino that I'll pick.

    So far, I have the curious impression that the roulette at InterCasino is treating me fairer than it should. My simulations show a catastrophic loss from time to time, to be outweighed by the steady trickle of positive sessions. Yet this has not yet occurred in actual play. I've been very close to bankruptcy when a pair I was chasing did not come out for 86 times, but that is really not
    the unbelievable streak one might estimate it to be (should occur 0.8% percent of the time).
     
  28. Feb 18, 2005
  29. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    That will actually defy all the laws of proberbility, especially if you have Pink Floyd pumping out the speakers at 90db+. Class act :D :D
     
  30. Feb 18, 2005
  31. Mugwump

    Mugwump Dormant account

    Location:
    Oho
    Ummm....Yeah.

    Try this 'system'.
    -------
    Put a bet on every single number of the roulette wheel, including 0 and 00.

    Its cool because you are guaranteed to win on every single spin!

    Repeat until broke.
    -------

    This 'system' actually has a -5.25% expectation each time its played, and has the added benefit of removing the volatility of the roulette wheel from the equation.

    In american roulette, every bet I place has a -5.25% expectation. This means that if I bet $10, I lose on average .52 cents each time I make a bet. In the short run, I can win with a bet and increase my bankroll. However, my chances of coming out ahead over the long term decrease with the number of bets that I make.

    In actuality, I think the best system you have of beating the house edge in an even money game is to take your entire bankroll and place it down once and walk away, win or lose. By doing so, you give the casino less of a chance to grind out its inevitable long term win.

    You don't get to play very long when you do this though, thus we have devised systems to help us manage our money and extend our time at the tables. They don't work over the long haul, but its fun when they work, and unless we're using that Martingale mess, don't cost us much when we lose.

    The only people that make money with systems are those that author books on them and the casinos that welcome those that read them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2005
  32. Feb 18, 2005
  33. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    It's like an asylum for 21st-Century alchemists! Bokse, you actually seem sincere, if slightly delusional. I couldn't quite work out how others use that forum, maybe a split between those who see it as:

    1) An intellectual challenge - either to create an 'interesting' system, or to be the quickest to find the inevitable 'flaw' in each cunning new plan

    2) A source of lots of moderately plausible systems to rip off gulllible and/or desperate gamblers (nice to see our old friend Andruchi making an appearance there!)

    3) A genuine quest, akin to finding a perpetual motion machine or turning base metals into gold. Unfortunately I suspect there comes a point in the 'career' of genuine 'questers' when they realise the only way to actually make money is to sell systems they've proved to themselves don't work...

    How about just playing with casino bonuses and making money without defying the laws of physics or mathematics!? Or else - just accept you can't beat a fair negative expectation game and concentrate on on-line casinos which may well not be fair, and should therefore be exploitable. At least it might work - and everyone on here would be interested in your results. The same doesn't go for any brainstorms you may have related to unrigged games...
     
  34. Feb 18, 2005
  35. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I still get to wear the dress too, right?... Only because it's a very important part of the system you understand, no other reason. Ahem.
     
  36. Feb 18, 2005
  37. bokske

    bokske Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electronics engineer
    Location:
    Belgium
    No wonder I feel right at home there.

    My friends would describe me that way, yes.

    I want to stress that the whole Systems Library over there is free to browse, albeit in the somewhat clumsy shape of a forum discussion.
    Put me down for that third category. I'm not terribly keen on ruining an online casino, and I definitely don't want to peddle any systems to hapless readers. I just have the humble intention of changing the way the world thinks about roulette forever.

    Now where's the mathematical challenge in that ??
    Yawn. Your interests are just very different from mine. Isn't it infinitely more stimulating to demonstrate that a fair casino can be beaten ?
    I get your point, and I'll withdraw to the "asylum".
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2005
  38. Feb 22, 2005
  39. aye-nay

    aye-nay Dormant account

    Location:
    In Norway
    a bit off the topic

    I know most of you guys don't like it, but at luckycance casino the baccarat appeared quite recently and I win more ften than loose - making small bets, I always make small bets. maybe it's just due to the fact that they've just started the game and try to "advertise" it. and "ties" happan unusually often.
     

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