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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by 4 of a kind, Jan 1, 2010.

    Jan 1, 2010
  1. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    Ive been reading thread after thread, about endless online casino complaints. I would have to guess that negative threads here out post positive ones by 4 to 1. No doubt this is a place to get real time information on current events along with critical information needed if youre willing to even risk your money gambling in cyberspace.

    Online gambling in its present form leaves a lot to be desired for the majority. I would compare online gambling today similar to riding a Bobsled down a mountain and before you could come to a safe stop at the bottom you have to cross a four lane major highway at 80 mph with no brakes.

    Taking all of the past complaining threads (and many more new ones are coming) into consideration, I think online players should this year take into serious consideration what they are willing to actually donate to online gaming.

    I also think its time for online players to really understand what it is youre up against when risking your money in cyberspace. (At least in my view) Mavin1 has an active thread running named Exterminating of the low-roller which I found very interesting, and reveals many of the current concerns for many online players, and prompted me to create this thread. Although its an interesting topic its a true sign of online players not understanding where they really stand when in cyberspace.

    Online casino owners for the most part had to be high risking gamblers from the get go to even get involved in such a risky unknown future. Even though some now trade publicly on the London Exchange, no one could of known for sure which road it may have taken from the beginning only several years ago. We all know where it stands today, but the early investors didnt know, which in turn should tell you about their personalities a bit. This type of risk taker explains why today the amount of rogues that are still operating and stealing from us with no fear of any law. It also explains why most of the online casinos operate the way they do simply because they can.

    I guess after years of running online casinos like Gestapos they must realize the new player pit is bottomless, or its just being treated like all good things must come to an end. In addition one of the new concerns on this forum is that online casinos are now showing less concern about the low-rollers. For the long term it would be senseless for online casinos to blow off the low-roller, but who said they are in fact here for the long term.

    The big B&M casino properties bring in low rollers by the bus loads after bus loads all week from Monday to Thursday. This no doubt is one of the ways land casinos keep the backbone of their business straight. These players many of whom are retired have a great time and most of them are truly the ones that gamble for entertainment. They earn comps that could be exchanged for many of the additional endless offerings offered at land casinos other then gambling. There comps could also earn them cold cash refunds to do with what they please with it, with no bullshit play through requirement. At the end of the day they could just cash in their comps earned for cash and take it home with them. They get free buffets along with many other free offerings and are treated and respected like the important part of the business they actually are.

    From Monday to Thursday these types of players are treated (in their world) to a degree like high rollers. The casinos realize they also are grooming many players to become loyal players, and many will become weekend warriors in the future willing to risk even more. Many of the players loading into buses during the week or visit the casinos are not just retired players. Many are rookies just getting their feet wet and if treated right could in the future become high roller customers for the casino. These casinos do their best trying to keep their present customers from experiencing other ones knowing that many gamblers are creatures of habit. Other casinos may offer better deals then theirs, but a happy customer is usually a permanent one. To this day I am still a loyal customer to the Taj in AC. Even if I'm going to Bogata for a poker tournament I'm staying at the Taj.

    Although the weekend degenerates usually make or break the land casinos, the weekday crowd plays an integral part of the business.

    I think online casinos could never offer up what we all consider to be fair. First of all regardless how good a reputation some might have, just being online in cyberspace will always cast a great doubt of integrity and honesty. With the endless amount of complaints we read about here, can you imagine the amount of complaints throughout the whole web combined.

    Think of all the scandals we know to be confirmed fact involving online gaming. Could you imagine if we knew everything? There are endless people out there trying to deceive us personally online, don't think there aren't people out there trying to outsmart casinos. These guys could hack into the CIA for crying out loud. Dont try to tell me that software programmers and casino workers and or owners wouldnt stick it in our butts if they felt they could get away with it, while hiding under the cover of cyberspace, with no fear of any law to speak of.

    It has become obvious that jail time for stealing millions from players involving online gambling in the past is not any concern for the crook. If you really believe that online gaming is straight up with the rules that are in place now, and dont believe that a programmer or owner (not all of course) are not already stealing from us in one form or another, then I have a time machine you could make a bid on and Ill throw in a bridge that comes with a toll you could collect and keep. If the poker scandal idiots werent so greedy they too would also still be having their way with us suckers.

    Of course B&M's are not oblivious to scandal. Who could forget Ron Harris the computer programmer who rigged slots at both Las Vegas, and Atlantic City. But these incidents when uncovered were brought out into the open followed up with jail time. Online casinos fear nothing.

    Because of everything I mentioned already in this post, along with much more, the online casino world will never in it's present form be trusted.

    I also believe although many online casinos owners might have bought into it with decades of longevity in mind, many more of them bought into it with the idea as long as we get our investment back, we'll just ride the wave for as long as it lasts. Although online gambling became legal in some countries, most owners were risking big bucks entering an unknown future and unclear legal ramifications, that eventually came about in the USA market.

    At least for the majority of USA players, I think there will never be a real trust until the named big land based brands are involved online along with the alleged USA government watchdogs that would be put in place.

    With all this being said yes I still presently gamble online. Thanks to some lucky online poker wins Im still up a few dollars. In my older years I treat online gambling like a needed medication to keep me from returning to my old ways. I was a live casino high roller for decades. But as the older years crept up on me, you suddenly realize you need to keep a tighter hold on what you do have. I except my losses playing online the last couple of years, and will admit I had lots of fun also. Maybe its a sad thing I treat my recent losses as fun, but also respect what I do now, knowing what Im capable of.

    So for the old reformed veteran gambler like myself, online gambling even in its present form does help with keeping me reformed.

    But for many of you online gamblers I read about here, maybe you should consider giving the real world of gambling a serious go of it before you decide to quit. There is much more offered out there then in cyberspace.
     
    14 people like this.
  2. Jan 1, 2010
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Interesting point. Ever since I can remember, the negativity has been a theme - that's the nature of the business, creating winners and losers - but I've noticed increased negativity recently, mainly from North American posters (not a sleight, just an observation).

    So maybe it's possible that a lot of the negativity has either directly or indirectly been caused by the effects of the UIGEA. The withdrawal of the big software providers, difficulties in finding payment processors, subsequently the increase in payment processing costs and possibly even an adjustment to payouts all contributing to a tougher environment for players. And who's left...RTG and Rival. Rival are relatively new and RTG's poor licensing reputation hardly helps gain trust, despite a handful of good eggs in the basket.

    All in all the perpetrators of the UIGEA would be quietly satified to read of gamblers becoming disillusioned I suspect.

    I think while RTG and Rival remain as the only serious choices of software in the US the trend will continue. One point I haven't looked into, but is probably pertinent, is how many of the increased negativity threads are about slots play?
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jan 1, 2010
  5. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona
    Why the heck are we limited on the thank you's we can pass out in a day? I keep running out!

    Thank you 4 of a Kind!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

    Simmo, I knew there was a real person under that blue hand puppet!!!!! :thumbsup:


    For Gloria460 Big Thumbs up for you too!!!!!! :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jan 1, 2010
  7. gloria460

    gloria460 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    nurse
    Location:
    Florida
    I was thinking the same thing about all these negative post and there is more to it than just player complaints. I know some of you don't see it but just look at the complaints from a USA player's perspective. I've been online gaming for years and never got bored or felt cheated by casinos. I feel right now that I have no choice but to play frugally or just wait out the UIGEA bc something is seriously amiss.

    I plan on hitting the BM casino either tonight or tomorrow. I do believe that the payout structure is different for USA players than our say european players...especially where mcg is involved.

    I still can't get over that monkey a... decison to deny us everything new and exciting at mcg. I've been doing the rival and rtg thing for about a month now and not depositing much bc it is not satisfying. I don't have many choices so I choose to go to Hard Rock and play anything that I want to.

    View attachment 20696
     
  8. Jan 1, 2010
  9. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    hi, i agree with you simmo ,but i would like to add that players are becoming far smarter with slots played & can now pick out funny runs as such high degree spins low payouts etc etc , players dont always moan about losing but when your filling your account more than often & you go to work to earn your monies so you can afford to play it gets a little bit hazy on yet another bad run for the 8th time on the trot ,even more people moaning, they all cant be wrong about something here , so the first place to come is here & vent off about yet another bad streak or whatever the casinos tell them , i myself think also its has alot to do with these large bonus applied on deposits (not all ) it must play with the rtp itself as if only 100 pounds of real money was deposited it now has another 200 pounds of bonus funds aswell played in real , not sure on this one though but i would think along those lines
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jan 1, 2010
  11. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Very well said mrjones, but many will come out and say the same ole, same ole...bad run, etc..just to keep you playing and questioning yourself..well, it has gone on for 2 years or so for me and there is no question left in my mind on if the games /payouts etc have changed..Proof? I need none except for what I feel and my bankroll...nothing says it like your own money...lasting less and less no matter what you do to change the ways of the casinos..

    So keep all your "run of bad luck" etc ..it doesn't work on me anymore..I am 3 days clean (all casinos gone off computer) and am saving up for the landbased casinos (free rooms, food etc wooohooo!) and I think I will have a ton of money to go with now since I haven't played online since. I won't say I will not dabble some, but the thought of traveling and freebies has become a bigger enticement than donating anymore into these sieves (money drains) .. :thumbsup:

    .
     
    3 people like this.
  12. Jan 1, 2010
  13. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona


    Yeah Silc!!!! Want to plan a day to go to the B&M together, now that would be real fun!!!!!
     
  14. Jan 1, 2010
  15. vegetagirl2008

    vegetagirl2008 Mafia Wars Level 472

    Occupation:
    No Job Here..
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York, United States
    Same here I am tired of losing my money to these casinos. I have better luck at the B & M. Maybe I will show my winning screenshots from the B&M casinos. Like this image below.
     
  16. Jan 1, 2010
  17. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    here here tell you what lets all save up all our monies & have a whole casino for the night free beer free food & or things to aswell music etc etc, the meister club out & about at least we would have a great evening out & have good memorys! kind regards mr jones
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jan 1, 2010
  19. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona
    Love that screenshot Vegetagirl!!!!:thumbsup: That is a popular slot at our casino.
    Yes, we should all save up and make a day of it together, that would be a real hoot!

    So much better than sitting at home in the same spot, same chair looking at the same computer day after day after day, watching your money dropping into the abyss!
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jan 1, 2010
  21. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    Of course not - there is no accountability, so 'what difference does it make'.

    And yet, people still argue "oh, they wouldn't throw their integrity away for small change like that - they have an edge already, they don't need to cheat [and so, therefore, they AREN'T cheating]".
     
  22. Jan 1, 2010
  23. Wildfire7

    Wildfire7 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineering
    Location:
    UK
    I respectfully disagree, in this business there will always be more losers than winners, so it stands to reason there will always be more negative views on internet gambling forums than positive ones.

    Casinos have no reason to cheat, believe it or not they actually want you to have some success now and again, because they know they will get it back in the long run.

    Regarding B&M casinos many players I have noticed are harking back to the good old days of them, but the reality is the grass is not greener over there. For starters many B&M players will be just occassional players who want to have an evening out, so naturally win or lose they will remember the entertainment factor. In a B&M casino you actually have to move your body now and again, such as going to the toilets, going to the bar or chatting with a friend. Online everything is much faster, you don't even have to wait to get on a table or a slot. So the actual spins/hands played in an average B&M session will be less than online, thus minimising your exposure to risk.

    Gambling involves risk, but also enjoyment so it is a shame so many players feel like they are being cheated out of their hard earned cash. I have always been of the opinion if I ever felt cheated then I would take up another hobby altogether.

    Mike
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Jan 1, 2010
  25. vegetagirl2008

    vegetagirl2008 Mafia Wars Level 472

    Occupation:
    No Job Here..
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York, United States
    Well your entitled to your opinion I have made more playing at a B & M then I do online and I am not saying the online casinos cheat but they do take up more of my funds then they need to and I don't have to worry about nasty customer service or no customer service I talk to a real live person and I rather get up and down more exercise for me. If I sit in the same spot for 2 or more hours I get stiff. Also the slots have the same bonus rounds and not one slot online has a different type of bonus round. Everything is the same. In a B & M the slots vary and I know which ones I like to play.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jan 1, 2010
  27. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona
    I don't know why some people keep saying that we're saying the online casinos are cheating, no one has said that, they are just stingyer (could be mispelled) everyday and the rate of speed for this stinginess is mind blowing!

    Plus they always promote online casinos as "Entertainment", that is one of the problems, the "Entertainment" factor fell off the planet.
     
  28. Jan 1, 2010
  29. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    Gambling involves risk, but also enjoyment so it is a shame so many players feel like they are being cheated out of their hard earned cash. I have always been of the opinion if I ever felt cheated then I would take up another hobby altogether.

    Mike[/QUOTE]

    hi mike this is a fair comment which is well understood , i myself enjoy gambling & im a pretty fair loser aswell if you cant afford to play dont play theres nobody making you other than yourself , but i will stand up for players who go on runs which realy takes the piss , we as players are fully aware of up & downs of casino play online , my point is theres alot of players from all sides play at all different bets ie 20c -$20 , yes you have a large portion of losers & a few winners but even i find this hard to believe that lets say 20 deposits of $100 dollars they dont get any play at all regarding hits features ,i myself do love to indudge in a good moan when i can see just via spins alone that theres no way it is focused of over 4000 spins that i wouldnt get some moneys back or a fair result from a feature of 100 or so at the ,im not saying everyone should win everytime im mearly pointing out to why they get so pissed off , its very easy to understand & you cannot blame them for having a good old moan every now & then , but as you said if your not enjoying it perhaps its break time,im also not saying casino cheat but........ i would say that alot of people moaning does point out that maybe there is truth in what there saying regards payouts & playtime ,regards mr jones
     
  30. Jan 2, 2010
  31. PenDragyn21

    PenDragyn21 Full Member

    Occupation:
    Games
    Location:
    The Lair
    Bitching and moaning about a losing (a little or a lot) is only natural. Feel free. I believe that's part of what this forum is here for. Saying the casino "did something" that caused it with the only backup being "other people are saying so too" is a whole 'nuther thing entirely.
     
  32. Jan 2, 2010
  33. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Love your screenie vegetagirl2008! I like that game also. I got a few too from my last visit... :thumbsup: It paid nice too...including dinner and breakfast and a room for 2 nights, plus $300 starter cash (BONUS or COMP dollars or what ever you want to call the freebie bucks)with NO WAGERING REQUIREMENTS!!!!...Yes B&M casinos do know how to treat a player that likes to play..

    Maybe we can have a thread with B&M winning screenies!!! Woo Woo! :rolleyes:

    .
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Jan 2, 2010
  35. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jan 2, 2010
  37. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    This thread wasnt intended to bring forward the pros and cons about online gaming vs. B&Ms. My thoughts were to just bring forward and mention only a few of the obvious unnecessary risks online players are forced to contend with when deciding to gamble in cyberspace. My point is that the risk that naturally comes with any type of gambling, when deciding to gamble online there are many more hidden risks that come into play not found when playing live. These additional risks found online, I believe causes your odds to be reduced even further when playing online.

    Its true the speed of the game online is 10xs faster then live which in turn actually is going to reduce your play time for every session. This is why I believe you need even a bigger bankroll online then live play.

    Im tired of hearing about how online gaming has no reason to cheat especially since they should also profit 10xs has fast. The online poker sites caught cheating were also cashing in on rake 10xs faster then live, and anytime someone even mentioned cheating at poker forums they were thrown into the fire labeled bad poker playing sore losing cry babies. As we all now know about the exposed online poker scandals the bad poker playing sore losing cry babies critics were forced to eat their own shit.

    Of course all online gaming is not just about misleading and cheating. But there track record from the past is not a record to be proud of.

    They (casinos & software providers) insist on remaining anonymous, refusing to come forward and clearing up any serious issues that should be addressed. This alone is enough to cast a cloud on all of it. The only alleged responses we get here are Bryan's underground connections who insist on keeping their title and name hidden in cyberspace. You only could suspect they can't come out of hiding in fear of losing their job. Why??? I have no idea except there has to be something to hide and or protect.

    The only responses we ever got from any gaming sites were the two poker scandals, and not until they were put in a choke hold being forced to come forward or face certain death.

    Personally I believe every site in one form or another are applying unethical tactics. Why or how can proven rogue casinos still have a license to operate, or even find a software provider willing to support them?

    If a land based casino were caught stealing from their customers it would become one of the biggest news stories all over the world.

    I agree with complaints that bring forward another online scam or online robbery. But knowing up front what youre up against in cyberspace along with the added risks, you should also be able to take your lumps, and stop complaining.

    Bottom line remains if youre looking for a decent bang for the gambling buck go to land based casinos.
     
    4 people like this.
  38. Jan 2, 2010
  39. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    somehow i posted this twice.
     

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