Online Casino Rant - Scum of the industry...

waynemasters

Banned User
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Sep 25, 2008
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
There are thousands of posts on this site, as well as all over the internet about online casino groups - here's my two cents. If there is an honest online gaming group, I'd like to know which one it is. I've played a number of them, and I can tell you with the deepest conviction - I have yet to find an "honest" one. I used to work for one of the largest Indian Casinos in So. California, I own several slot machines, etc... I'm not calling myself an expert by any stretch - but I do know more about the industry than the average consumer - and I can tell you that it's so plainly obvious that these "online casinos" are nothing more than dishonest, unethical and self serving money pits. Most online casinos offer huge bonuses to lure unsuspecting people to play, promise 98% payouts, great customer service, on and on. I've spent thousands of dollars and well, that's about it. I've not experienced 98% payouts, great customer service - just throwing good money into the pockets of God knows who. If you're like me and have worked in the land based industry - you know exactly what I'm talking about. There's a reason there are "big bonuses" - the games SUCK and a very FEW people ever break even or win anything - and the ones who do have the astronomical luck of breaking even or winning anything - good luck at getting a check. As for the software out there - the manufacturers need to really start doing something to save their reputations - not that they even care, I'm sure. Microgaming and RTG are among the most pathetic formats out there. All you have to do is "play for free" to see how quickly a bankroll is depleted with no significant hits to understand that making a deposit would be a foolish decision. Microgaming especially... I played the "Wheel of Wealth" and it took 486 spins - yes, 486 spins to hit the wheel bonus!?! Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole purpose of a bonus game is to - yeah - **HIT THE BONUS** - imagine that! I've written and attempted to call Microgaming several times - with no success. Parlay is another scammer. Their games hit VERY infrequently and to be quite honest, they really need to "spice up" their format a bit. I think the Atari 2600 has more exciting play formats. With respect to these bogus 98% payout claims - I don't buy into the "audits" showing 97.821545% payouts (or whatever other imaginary number they claim). Unless its legitimately audited by one of the big 4, its nothing more than that - an imaginary number.

As for the casino groups themselves - the worst by far has to be the Fortune Lounge group. These people are incredibly rude, dishonest, and allowed for over $6000 in unauthorized charges on one of my cards and turned around and accused me of fraud. Look, its really simple. I don't know if any of the casino owners ever read posts on here, if one happens to be reading this, I have some advice for you - clean up your act! Learn some ethics and practice what you preach on your mission statement page.

On a side note, I'm in the process of retaining an attorney to possibly start a class action against several casinos based in Costa Rica, as well as a few of the other groups elsewhere. If anyone has been taken by some of the Microgaming, RTG or Parlay casinos, please feel free to contact me at waynermasters@gmail.com for more information. Don't let these people get away with shady practices. Contrary to what you might have read, there IS legal recourse against these scammers.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
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CAG
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Sep 26, 2004
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SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I sure hope you arent soliciting business (especially from those who feel aggrieved against FL) by any chance. Maybe you can post more after you succeed in getting your funds back from the so-called scums.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
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Jeeeze that's a big chip you have on your shoulder!

There are scummy casinos on the net, but equally there are loads of totally honest places. Ripping off players is not good for business - you don't have to be Einstein to work that one out!

One question for you:
I am a player who has been making consistent profits from online casinos for 7.5 years (mostly slots play for the last 4 years, and most of the profit from MG casinos), how did I manage to do that if they are all rigged?

Good luck with the lawsuit!
KK
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
Hi waynemasters,
Welcome to the forum.

Well it looks like you picked a real Rogue to play at. The Fortune Lounge Group of casinos has been blacklisted by just about every casino watchdog site on the www. I do believe CasinoMeister put them on his Rogue List quite a while ago, as did most responsible casino web sites.

I understand how it feels when you know you've been done wrong by an online casino and there is not much you can do about it. Been there, done that... As have most folks on this forum.

However, your not going to get much sympathy around here when you start calling ALL online casinos "Scum". The folks around here are all aware that there are Rogue Casino out there that will happily take your money and never pay out.

But the folks here also know that with a little due diligence you can find a good and honest online casino to play at.

And it does take "Due Diligence" on the part of the player (you) to find good casinos. I would suggest you start looking here https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

But don't limit yourself, Google is your friend, a few Google searches for Fortune Lounge or any of the casino names in that group would have alerted you to the fact these guys are rip-offs before you ever deposited a penny with them.

waynemasters said:
If there is an honest online gaming group, I'd like to know which one it is.
Actually there are several.
My personal favorite and most trusted is any casino in the Referback Group... Belle Rock, Lucky Nugget, Jackpot City, Gaming Club... (I happen to know for a fact that Belle Rock paid one US Jackpot Slot Winner over $9,000 on a $50.00 deposit last month alone... :) )
But don't take my word for it... Do your own research. it only takes a few minutes and you will save yourself money and a lot of frustration.
 

Casinomeister

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Bierland
...Well it looks like you picked a real Rogue to play at. The Fortune Lounge Group of casinos has been blacklisted by just about every casino watchdog site on the www. I do believe CasinoMeister put them on his Rogue List quite a while ago, as did most responsible casino web sites.
...
Um. The FL group landed itself in the rogue section a few of years ago for a spam/bonus problem issue, but they pretty much redeemed themselves after a couple of years and are back on the accredited list :D

Most webmasters are promoting them as well now. They also have a rep here who can assist when needed.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
I stand corrected about Fortune being on the CM ROGUE list.:oops:
I knew I should have checked before I posted.

However, this is one time we are going to have to agree to disagree on the Rogue status of these guys at Fortune Lounge Bryan.
I still think they act like Rogues towards players.

Maybe the Fortune Rep here can change my mind by his actions.

You might also want to add a little note to update this
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waynemasters

Banned User
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
You are correct

Yes, FL needs to really clamp down on its shifty behaviour and cruddy payouts. Try playing a bonus game at FL and see how often you DON'T hit a bonus feature.

For those of you folks here that have worked for a land based casino, you know exactly what I mean. Online casinos offer much lower payout odds than land based. Most land based machines have a minimum payout of 75%. There is a Magazine (the name escapes me) that publishes slots payout percentages monthly at a number of land based casinos in the US and Canada. It's usually the last 10 pages or so. So how is it that I can go into one of the lowest payout paying land based casino with $1000 and walk out with $2500 to $3000 (3 times) - with over 8 hours of being in the casino (3 times), but at one of these online jobs I lose $1000 in a matter of minutes?? My estimate of online casino actual payouts is in the 20something% range, if even that. Microgaming takes the cake for rigged software. The Hitman game is one of the worst on the net. 300 credits per spin, I've gone well over 100 spins only to hit 600 to 900 credits total as a ROI. The popular response from the bottom feeders is that "the RNG is highly accurate and fair, etc"... Are you joking?? These games clearly have no matrix dynamics with respect to wager changes - or better put, the higher your wager, the more frequent hits/payouts. If you go to a land based casino, penny slots always have the lowest odds set. The higher wager on a machine, the higher hit frequency and payout structure. The best test for this is next time you go to a land based casino, try a multi denomination slot machine. Play $100 set to quarters. Run the cycle (unless you hit :oops:) ) and then throw in another $100, but set it to $1 wagers. You'll see the difference in payouts dramatically. Online casinos don't extend this offer to you. If you're playing "Break the Banks Again", for example - you get the same crappy odds playing 25 cents per line as you do playing a penny per line and that's one of the things that bother me most about these scumbags. If I'm wagering $100 per spin, I better be getting more hits than someone who is spending $1 per spin, but that is clearly NOT the case. People don't realize that machines that payout 98% hit on a very frequent basis. For example I ave an IGT "Moolah" 3 line quarter machine here at home. It's got a 93% payout chip. Let me tell you how often this machine hits. So the fact that most of these online casinos "claiming" that their payouts are sso high is nothing more than a scam. For God's sake, even at a 75% structure you hit on a regular basis. I'd love to witness one of these audits to see for myself the legitimacy of these claims.

As for the poster who has "been hitting on online casinos for 7 yrs", consider yourself very lucky, my friend :oops:)
 
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silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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I do believe CasinoMeister put them on his Rogue List quite a while ago, as did most responsible casino web sites.
but they pretty much redeemed themselves
Thank goodness! I thought they were still on the "GOOD" list. I have never had a problem with them in withdrawals and the withdrawals always show up in my account exactly when stated...and I have had quite a few withdrawals lately from all their casinos...without a peep from them or a problem!

Had me a tad worried there for a moment! Don't do that again :D
 

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
Hi Waynemasters

Welcome to the forum. Please feel free to look around and see who's getting paid and who isnt. Personally my last year of play with RTG and MG have sucked big time. Infact, I had ONE cashout from an MG and that was 2 years ago. I since then closed my accounts with them with the exception of one I keep open incase I have to try the new slot and review it. I havnt gotten a winning from an RTG since ....Ummm (i dont remember). I use to get winnings from RTG on a weekly-biweekly basis, Im pretty sure its been atleast 4 months. I have all RTG's uninstalled with the exception of one for the same reason as MG except for the occassional yen for a certain slot.

I wouldnt go as far to say ALL of them are scum but it seems to me the only people getting a better shot of winning are non US residents. I live in PA just like you (although 6 hours away) and it's still legal in our state so I dont know why it has become such a Pain the A$$. I may be interested in what you have to say. Im not saying I want to join but if what you are doing is sound and I get some advice from family members Ill keep an open mind

As for the players here. I mean no disrespect but if this guy was a spammer, I think Bryan would of banned him by now. As long as he is not asking us for money why say things like this if he's trying to help. If I find out he's not then I will eat my words but lets get all the facts before jumping down a new members throat. What can it hurt to hear him out?
 

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
Hi Again Waynemasters

Regarding KasinoKing....You need to make him the exception to the rule. Ive known him here for 2 years and chat in private often. He does a great system and doesnt claim to cash out $3000 a week. Alot of people assume this but he has never said he was wealthy from it

He makes a modest profit while having fun and that is what I "use" to do for a living the first year I was on here. I too made weekly withdrawls that out weighed my deposits EVERY week for a year. I considered myself to be a professional online gambler (it only lasted a year lol). This last year has been dreadful at 3/4 places I played at and Ive been slowly closing all of my accounts.

KasinoKing: When I wrote up the page Im sure you know that didnt apply to you. You live outside the US anyway :D
 

waynemasters

Banned User
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks Babs

Hi Babs,

I know exactly what you're talking about. People seem to forget a number of things (me included) before depositing money at one of these online deals. The first being what was stated on their website upon signing up. The 200% bonus, the high payouts, etc... Again, I've not found this to be true.

Rest assured that I am not soliciting anything. I am just fed up with these casinos making claims that are so far from the truth. I made this public knowledge for one reason - for people who feel that they have been taken advantage of by some of these casinos, don't let these people get away with it. Either these casino groups do what they say and say what they mean, or they should be slapped with a lawsuit - plain and simple :)
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
...or they should be slapped with a lawsuit

Good luck with that... :lolup:

FYI - the Rogue casinos that don't pay are in fact out of your legal reach. You can file US court papers till the cows come home and it won't do you a bit of good.

The casinos that would have paid attention to a law suit filed in the USA, were driven out of the USA by the UGIEA.

Also, I might add that legit online casinos, do in fact pay at the 90+% level... As do some land based casinos. I have seen payouts in Nevada land based casinos anywhere from 80% all the way up to 97%.

I also have experience with land based casinos as well as online casinos, as do many here.
 

waynemasters

Banned User
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Lawsuits

Actually, it's a bit easier than you think. As I said, I have connected with several lawyers in the countries of operation to either put these companies out of business or to provide a dose of bustass to keep them more honest. These online casinos are not nearly as regulated (if at all) as are land based casinos here in the US. Sorry, but I have no faith in "governments" like Malta, Gibraltar, South Africa, or some 40 acre county in the UK. Look, there is no compairison between a land based casino in the United States and an online casino. What I would love to see is an IGT based online casino that is run from the United States with all of their popular games. I'm sorry folks, the more you know about land based casinos, the less respect you have for the online guys.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
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Regarding KasinoKing....You need to make him the exception to the rule. Ive known him here for 2 years and chat in private often. He does a great system and doesnt claim to cash out $3000 a week. Alot of people assume this but he has never said he was wealthy from it
Quite correct! :thumbsup:
I just did a rough calculation on my master spreadsheet, and it works out at a little under $100/week.
(Average of May-2001 to Sept-2008)
 

suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Location
California
Actually, it's a bit easier than you think. As I said, I have connected with several lawyers in the countries of operation to either put these companies out of business or to provide a dose of bustass to keep them more honest. These online casinos are not nearly as regulated (if at all) as are land based


Hello waynemasters and welcome to the forum :D Don't have an ounce of doubt that you've found lawyers to take up your cause :D Before retiring, I worked in the field for 26+ years so I do know lawyers pretty well. :D Know any good lawyer jokes? I've probably heard them all.

So you sound rather miffed by how you have been treated by online casinos.........trust me, been there, done that.........but hiring a lawyer to do something about it will accomplish two things: (1) bankrupt you; or (2) make you hate lawyers more than online casinos.......

There is a good damn reason these operations are domiciled in places like Costa Rica and Malta, etc. It's called being bulletproof. Sure you can find a lawyer to take up your battle! You're a pissed off American and ripe for the pickin'!

Sorry for not sugar coating this opinion, but it's going to be pure folly IMO.............
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
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Location
Hell on Earth
Actually, it's a bit easier than you think. As I said, I have connected with several lawyers in the countries of operation to either put these companies out of business or to provide a dose of bustass to keep them more honest.
Look I don't want to start a fight with you, but I happen to know what your saying is not true.

All online casinos that still accept US players have taken 'steps' so that courts in the US can not touch them. So your assertion you are going to "provide a dose of bustass" is humerus... but is just not gonna happen.:)

These online casinos are not nearly as regulated (if at all) as are land based casinos here in the US. Sorry, but I have no faith in "governments" like Malta, Gibraltar, South Africa, or some 40 acre county in the UK. Look, there is no compairison between a land based casino in the United States and an online casino. What I would love to see is an IGT based online casino that is run from the United States with all of their popular games. I'm sorry folks, the more you know about land based casinos, the less respect you have for the online guys.
OK well you have a few incorrect assumptions that obviously need correcting.

First... The majority of land based casinos inside the USA are owned, operated and REGULATED by the local Native American Tribes. There is no government regulating body or agency over those native owned casinos, other than the Tribe Officials that own and run the casinos themselves. Soo in effect the Native casinos regulate themselves... and they don't do a very good job of regulating, if you know what I mean.

Neither the state or federal governments have any jurisdiction over the Native Casinos... The US Supreme Court has said so.

The only land based casinos that can claim to be "Regulated" by a government agency are "Regulated" by the state gaming boards or commissions in states like Nevada and New Jersey.

So your assumption that, all land based casinos inside the US are well "Regulated" is just not correct.

Second... The countries you say you have no faith in, Malta, Gibraltar, South Africa, and the UK are the most rigorous and toughest regulators of casinos anywhere in the world (including online casinos). As far as regulating gaming the USA could learn a thing or two from the UK or Malta, imo.
 

waynemasters

Banned User
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Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Land based casinos

No offense taken. Frankly I'm not trying to start a fight, either and if it appeared like that, my sincerest apologies. Every land based casino in the United States IS regulated by a state gaming authority. Even in California, where I worked for one of the larger Kumeyaay Casinos. The California Gambling Control Board (
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) oversees the Indian casinos throughout the state. It was not until the people of California voted on a Proposition to allow Indian casinos to operate in the state. Even the other states like NY, CT, AZ, WI and NM who all have Indian casinos, each respective state DOES regulate and oversee these casinos by state laws. Other states like NV, NJ, PA and MI who have non tribal casinos also have State Gaming Control Boards that control under heavy watch the operation of each casino. You mentioned that my assumption that all land based casinos inside the US are well "Regulated" is just not correct. It's not an assumption, it is very correct. For a complete list of governmental gaming control agencies in the United States, follow this link: www.state.nj.us/casinos/home/gamelink/index.html

As for a lawsuit... I don't know any lawyer jokes haha. As you know, nobody in this day and age is "bulletproof" from a lawsuit. I'm not interested as much in recovering lost money as I am having the online industry smarten up their act. I have issues being taken advantage of, as well as others being taken for a ride. This is supposed to be a fun pasttime.

Again, I hope I didn't offend anyone - that was certainly not my intention. :)
 
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slotplayer

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Over 28 US states have a (state operated) land based casino or racino and that is a 2005 number, and they are closely regulated by state lottery boards.

From my experience with MG's (as that is all I ever played)
I know something in their behaivor has changed since last March so I stopped playing them except for a retention bonus or two tossed my way here and there but I make no deposits.

The state land casino nearest me is just as bad though, so I stopped going there as well.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
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The decisions by the US Supreme Court and the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act all state that the regulatory authority with Native Casinos on Indian Reservations is ONLY given to the Federal Government and/or the Native Tribes themselves...

The States do NOT have the legal authority to Regulate Native Casinos on Native Land. The States can have an input as to what games are played, but not how they are played.

Here is some info on the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act.
Sec. 2709. Interim authority to regulate gaming
Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, the Secretary shall continue to exercise those authorities vested in the Secretary on the day before the date of enactment of this Act [enacted Oct. 17, 1988] relating to supervision of Indian gaming until such time as the Commission is organized and prescribes regulations. The Secretary shall provide staff and support assistance to facilitate an orderly transition to regulation of Indian gaming by the Commission.
Source
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Of course there is always the National Indian Gaming Commission that was created by the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act.

As an independent federal regulatory agency of the United States, the National Indian Gaming Commission (Commission) was established pursuant to the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988 (Act). The Commission comprises a Chairman and two Commissioners, each of whom serves on a full-time basis for a three-year term. The Chairman is appointed by the President and must be confirmed by the Senate. The Secretary of the Interior appoints the other two Commissioners. Under the Act, at least two of the three Commissioners must be enrolled members of a federally recognized Indian tribe, and no more than two members may be of the same political party.
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But the NIGC is an unfunded agency, in other words it has no money or people to "Enforce" the Regulations it produces. Senator John McCain is a huge supporter of Native Gaming and has made sure this agency receives almost no money at all.
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It is a common misconception (promoted by the Native Casinos themselves) that Native casinos are Regulated by the States, but as you can see yourself from the actual Federal Laws and Regulations, in the links I provided (that trump state laws) that is just not the case.
 
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lots0

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Hell on Earth
Added....

California's Proposition 5, the Indian Gaming Initiative, gave the Indian tribes ALL regulatory control over the gaming in native casinos in California...

Here is the word directly from the California Attorney General.
Tribal Regulation. Under the compact, each tribe must have a tribal gambling agency responsible for regulating its gambling facilities and operations.

State Regulation. The Attorney General and the Gambling Control Commission would be responsible for state regulation of the tribal gambling operations. State regulation, however, would be limited to: (1) conducting background checks of nontribal employees of a gambling operation, (2) reviewing specified information submitted by the tribal gambling agency, and (3) advising the tribal agency that the state objects to certain actions taken by the agency.
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As I said above, Fed Laws Trump State Laws. So all California's Prop 5 was doing by giving all gaming regulatory authority to the Tribes themselves was making state law conform to federal law, as have ALL the States with Native Gaming.

Even under the current court challenge to Prop 5 in California, the Natives would retain all regulatory authority over whatever Native gaming remains in California.
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State regulation of Native Casino Gaming is a common misconception, a misconception that is encouraged by the Natives themselves...
 
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waynemasters

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Sep 25, 2008
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Pittsburgh, PA
Were you there when...

Just out of curiosity, were you at Viejas Casino in San Diego when the State stormed the casino, began pulling money from the machines, and closing the casino until a Prop was passed by the voters of the State. I was there, as were many other casino employees across California in November 1997 when this happened. It's not a misconception in the least. It's like any govt agency - they tell you what you want to hear - and very seldom do they ever tell you the truth. I can tell you this, unless the voters of the state of California voted to allow slots AND the state worked in an agreeable deal with the tribes to allocate proceeds from the revenues to the state - it would not have happened. So yes, the state laws do carry a great deal of weight. I hate to break it to you, but ask any Native American about their views of the BIA, or the Supreme Court. You'll find a fairly low opinion. Look, I appreciate your research and I respect your feelings, but the quotes you found are nothing more than PR value for the general public. But the truth is a simple matter that State laws absolutely DO regulate gambling - in every aspect. Take Pennsylvania for example. Did you know know that the RNG and eproms for every slot machine in Pennsylvania are housed in ONE central location in Harrisburg at the State Gaming Control Board Headquarters? When you take into account the amount of money involved from gaming revenues, I think you'll agree that there is more "back office" shenanagans than most people like to admit.
 

lots0

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I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about who Regulates the Gaming inside Native Casinos. I been working inside the Gaming industry for about 15 years now, mostly in back end management. The Laws I quoted, and they are 'Laws'... I only used only back up my personal experience with Native Gaming...

I heard about the raid on the Table Mtn. Casino in 1990 or 1991 by a local Sheriff, the raid was a joke (although, I am sure it was traumatizing for those that were their at the time)... Within a day of the Raid by the Sheriffs Dept. (that was not authorized by any state agency) the courts ordered the Sheriff to return all monies and slot machines to the Tribe and the Sheriff was also ORDERED by the court to leave the Tribe alone, and told by the Judge that he had NO Jurisdiction inside the Native Lands... The Sheriff, If I remember correctly said he was not concerned with the Gaming, he made the "raid" because he said he was concerned with the crime that the casino had brought with it, Drugs, Prostitution and thefts from cars etc.

Also you don't need to tell me how Natives feel about the Supreme Court or anything else for that matter... I already know. :)
 

waynemasters

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Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I agree :oops:)

Lots, I couldn't agree with you more. The Native American tribes have gotten many a raw deal handed to them from the Government. It's a shame, too. The problem with gaming (in general) is that as long as there is greed, and there always will be, there is going to always be some sort of negative stigma associated with the industry - whether it be online or land based. A classic example of this would be in Pennsylvania today. The State takes 55% of the casino revenues from the casino operations. Those of you who live in PA know that this State is home to the most corrupt and inadequate State governments in the country. And unlike states like California, voters were given no say in the decision making process with respect to the casinos. The deeming problem for gaming in PA will be the lack of jackpots hit, and tighter machines, which will ultimately lead to the demise of the industry inside PA.

I'm really enjoying our conversation, by the way. This is what makes good discussions great :)
 

lots0

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What I was trying to point out was that, online casinos are not that different from the land based Native casinos when it comes to regulation.

Most online casinos that still do business with Americans regulate themselves, just like the Native Casinos do. I've seen both sides (Native and Online gaming) from the inside out and the difference between Native casinos and online casinos is in fact very very little...

I have a bunch of horror stories about Native Casinos and how they treat their non-Native customers ( IMO - you should never gamble in someones house that hates you)... Just like I know a slew of stories about how bad some online casinos can get with their customers.

Just for giggles... call the State Attorney in your state (any State that has Native Gaming) and just ask about filing a complaint against a Native Casino...
In almost every case your going to be redirected to the Native Tribal Council or the Feds... The States won't touch them, they can't.
 

babs7262

Banned User
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Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
I wont gamble in Native Casinos. At first I was pretty excited about going to one because Ive never been. I went to FL a few years back and decided to go to this one that was about an hour and half from FT Myers . I went to play 7 card stud, there werent enough players so they pulled 3 casino card dealers to play. I would love to see an atlantic city casino try to pull a stunt like that! I got up when they sat down and they asked "I thought you wanted to play poker?" I said "There is no way Im gonna play against employees of this casino" They were still dressed in their uniforms!!
 
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