Online Casino Complaints

[rainfall]

Avoid Crown Vegas Like The PLAGUE.
They are scum.

I don't know why bryan backs them up. He'll probably delete this post and remove my access.

They stole winnings from players and wouldn't return deposits from losers. That is typical RTG. Bitches were pitched and bryan responded to none according to several people who pitched bitches. Many got nowhere with crown vegas. They'll change terms when they realize they made a term they didn't like and you won big


A guy here posted a complaint a couple days ago and bryan removed it. It seemed well mannered. He's getting the shaft for over 4k from crown vegas? Bryan please tell us why you deleted the post?

If bryan deletes this post i'll just post it on winneronline so you guys don't get sucked in because i assume most readers here read there too.

Don't get me wrong i'd love to believe bryan is a good guy.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that his plagiarism of ben franklin is part of the joke and not plagiarism

(Message edited by rainfall on February 19, 2003)

 

[Casinomeister]

Rainfall,

First of all, don't come in here spewing a bunch of bullshit.

Bitches were pitched and bryan responded to none according to several people who pitched bitches.

Bullshit. No one has complained about Crown Vegas to me. I just went back through all of the complaints I have since last November, and nothing. Again, don't start making accusations you can't prove.

A guy here posted a complaint a couple days ago and bryan removed it. It seemed well mannered. He's getting the shaft for over 4k from crown vegas? Bryan please tell us why you deleted the post?

Bullshit. Nothing has been deleted. Maybe the person hit the "preview post" instead of "submit". And like I said, there are around 400 people in this forum that receive these posts as email. If one of them can come forward with this deleted post, I'd like to see it.

And I'm not plagiarising anyone, this is my beer quote "inspired" by Mr. Franklin (he liked wine). Before spewing your unfounded caustic claims, buy a dictionary and look up the term.

 

[Casinomeister]

I just checked, 597 forum members have email notification turned on (which sends them a copy of the post, not merely the link). If I deleted any post concerning Crown Vegas, I'm sure one of these 597 people would have it.

 

[rainfall]

I personally bitched about crown vegas. It seems your pitch a bitch isn't working. Word around is you don't reply to many bitches at all. So it would only seem right that you wouldn't appropriate time to "sponsor" bitches.

Bryan you have alot of sway. This may be rightfully or unrightfully(e.g. Mike Craig) earned and you referring a thieving casino is worrysome. If it were some newbie on here saying crown vegas is great i'd post a short post on why they are not and it'd end there.

Now that i have your attention if i have every crown vegas complainent pitch a bitch will you do anything about it? Arguing back and forth will solve nothing. People want what is fair and you plugging steve bennet(t?) and crown vegas casino is just not right.

Bryan go get your november or december issue of gambling online magazine... I'm sure you have it...

Tell me what page the crown vegas advertisement is on.

 

[Casinomeister]

If the "pitch a bitch" didn't get to me, it could have been a scripting problem, but you would have received an error message. Nonetheless, I haven't received anything from you nor anyone. So your claim that I've received a bunch in unfounded.

Word around is you don't reply to many bitches at all Bullshit. I do this on my own time. I respond to as many as possible. You have no idea what my workload is like and how many individuals I've helped out. Most of it goes unpublished. If anyone had a dire need for me to help them out, and I hadn't responded the first time, don't you think they would try to contact me again? Or POST in the forum??

I don't have an issue of the November/December issue of GOM. What the hell does this have to do with anything by the way.

And what the hell are you referring to in your cryptic M. Craig comment? Don't try to turn the forum into a circus.

 

[Casinomeister]

Here you can post your complaints concerning Crown Vegas

 

[rainfall]

The M. Craig comment is an entirely different subject so let's pass on that for now.

It is much appreciated that you help people. You earn alot of points and sway amongst the people you do help. That is great. Of the many people on my IM who are on various forums i know of only 1 who has a bitched helped. But that is fine. You don't need to help anyone. I bet your workload is huge. I can understand that. But from talking to many people who have pitched bitches i have never heard of one being solved that was from a sponsoring or "OPA approved" or casino you've plugged. I have no reason to lie. What do i care? I'm only out $105.00 from crown vegas. But its the other people i feel for. It's better that you know this. So you don't think that people that read your forums or WOL or wherever actually think anything can be done if a problem arises. I will give you credit that you are better than Julie.

You are an asset in your neutrality. But again i state when you leave your neutrality and plug a rogue casino you put yourself and your reputation on the line for that casino.

The point of the GOM was that Steve Bennet lies and says he doesn't advertise in magazines. I find it hard to believe that someone else placed the adv. for him and the coupon codes worked in his casino without his knowledge.

This is not a personal attack. I do not know bryan personally or anything about him as a person or his personal life. I am merely stating what is seen from a spectator point of view in the gambling world.

 

[dcrimmins]

I signed up with Crown Vegas on 12/7/02. I purchased $50 and received $50 more using a promo code from their website, and then purchased $55 and received another $55 for another promo code. I then played with the $210 and won a nice bit of change. When I cashed in, they stole my winnings and gave me back my original deposit of $105, claiming that I could only use one of the two promotion codes.

If they only wanted one of the codes to be used, I am sure thier casino program could handle denying the use of the second one. But since the software allowed the use of both, they really have no leg to stand on.

I too would say to stay FAR FAR away from them.

 

[Casinomeister]

dcrimmins,

Please send me your user name and the email address you used for CV.

Thanks!

Bryan

 

[Casinomeister]

Rainfall,

What the hell do you know of the "pitch a bitches" that I work on nearly daily? Nothing, except hearsay. Please understand that this is only one of many things that I am doing at Casinomeister, and I try to keep up on them as much as possible. I don't post them since many of them are taken care of right away and it would be too time consuming. The ones that I DO receive on casinos that are sponsored here usually are taken care of quicker than the others since I have better access to the managers/operators. I rarely receive complaints on sponsored casinos here. The most recent was Vegas Joker (pretty much solved in another thread) Fortune Lounge group (sirius - solved), and I'm working on one from the Riverbelle. This is going back two months. Most of the complaints that I receive are for Virtual Casino, Starluck Casinos, World Gaming, and a slew of shady no names. I receive about three per day, and sometimes it takes up to a week for me to respond.

Julie Sidwell is fantastic and I am not "better" than her. Handling "grumbles" is her sole responsibility and she is able to focus much better than I. But what she can't do, I can. I am able to work independently and report very publically on "rogueish" activites. This is not one of her tasks.

If you have/had a problem with Crown Vegas, you should have contacted me. I'm an easy person to get a hold of. You say you did, I say you didn't. I will welcome a complaint from you, but please do it the right way. Either fill out the "pitch a bitch" form or email me bryan@casinomeister.com.

But what I don't appreciate, is your public claims that I am censoring posts here. That really pissed me off. There is no one banned from this forum except a few hardcore spammers. Hell, I even let Damian Dunlap back in after I banned his ass last fall.

 

[jetset]

Rainfall, you're coming on a little too heavy here with the unproved allegations of censorship and inefficient complaint handling.

Save your vitriol for the bad casinos that really deserve it, don't dump on a guy who has done a whole lot more than most on the players' behalf.

I have known and worked with Bryan for the last three or more years and I cannot believe that he would prejudice players unfairly just to "help" a sponsor. That is simply not his style.

You correctly say that he has a reputation for integrity and that gives him "sway": he didn't get that by behaving in the manner you accuse him of here.

I would like to suggest that you produce these people whom you allege have Crown Vegas complaints that were not attended to, or those who's posts were unfairly deleted.

If you can do that then a solution can be reached and if necessary explanations given. I note that Bryan is already appealing to anyone with such evidence to come forward, and that augers well for a transparent process on this issue.

 

[gamblinboi]

i had one problem with Crown Vegas otherwise they've been pretty good to me. It involved a coupon a friend of mine told me about. Well, I figured why not (they always have a ton of great coupons floating about) and entered it, it worked and so i played. I won. My friend lost (including his deposit). Well, turns out (cough) the coupon was for new players only. They voided my winnings. Did they void the losses of my friend? Well, they told me that they would - after all, it'd only be fair, right? Well he asked them about it, but they ignored his winnings.

So here's this coupon that APPERENTLY was for new users (so why did it work for existing?) - they void the winnings, but not the losses.

again, that's the only problem i've had with them so far...

 

[spearmaster]

I back Bryan 200%. And if he ever has a backload he knows he can always turn to me.

And we both agree that Julie is the best. I think you are really out of line here, Rainfall. Do remember that Bryan's Pitch a Bitch is a FREE SERVICE. Not only is he not obligated to anyone, he gives freely of his time for NOTHING from you.

 

[hitmesilly]

I'm new here, but so far Bryan has done exactly what he said.. I got a quick response from him on the "pitch a bitch" form for Prism, and he did his best to shoot off an email to them. Whether or not I get results from Prism is another story. Being a webmaster myself, I know there's little time in the day to answer emails after all the other work involved. So hat's off to Bryan for even attempting to resolve casino/player disputes.

 

[vcmav]

Hello.

I am the person Crown Vegas is trying to steal $4150 in winnings from.

I may have posted wrong, or not. I have great respect for what Bryan does here, and do not wish to generate any sort of debate that brings his credibility into question.

I deposited into Crown Vegas casino using a promo code, and lost money. I deposited again using another different promo code, and happened to win very big. I gave them a LOT of action, which is normal for me, and ended up working up my winnings even more.

The casino is trying to say that the second promo was not intended for me to recieve, and therefore all my winnings are void. The promo infact came to me in a peridocial i recieve regularly.

This all seems like the perfect scam. Keep the losers deposits, and cancel the winnings of winners, turning 18% yeild games into 80% yeild games.

I agree with the above poster that their software had no problems granting me these bonuses when i claimed them, and the management seems to have extreme difficulty in honoring bets that go against them.

I lose upwards of 5 figures a year in casinos, and have few regrets about it. The rush i still get keeps me from jumping out of planes or off bridges with a rubber band tied to my waist. But i am more than infuriated by the fact that when i finally do get a break and win some cash back that this casino cannot hold up their end of the bargain and pay me what i am owed.

If i tried to stiff a casino in vegas, or tried to take my chips off the table once the cards were down, i would go to jail.

I see this situation as no different. Until I am paid for my winning wagers, I consider myself the victim of a aggregious criminal act willfully perpetrated by Crown Vegas Casino.

 

[jetset]

At last, some facts for Bryan to work with!

I take it that the "periodical" in which you found the second promo code was Gambling Online Magazine as posted in this thread earlier by Rainfall?

Commiserations on your hassles - that's a significant amount of money and I hope you manage to get it back.

 

[jpm]

Sounds to me like you used two different signup bonus coupons. In that case, the casino is right in not honoring any winnings it generated. The fine print on those offers virtually all say the same thing, good for your first deposit only, or new player signup bonus or something similar. And I've never seen a promo in any printed or web based ad that was NOT a signup promo. The only time you see existing player promos is in email to you from the casino, or on a message of the day type thing when you login.

While I'm no casino advocate (I trust almost none of them), it sounds like they are in the right on this one, though they would certainly owe you whatever you deposited to get that bonus.

 

[vcmav]

"And I've never seen a promo in any printed or web based ad that was NOT a signup promo."

So what youre saying is that my winings should be void because i was unaware of an implicit restriction that the bonus, being advertised, only applies to new user.

I think you need to be some kind of online casino expert to know when a restriction is implied versus one that is explicit. And there was no explicit new user restriction indicated on the second bonus I used. I am not fool enough to bet big money and think that a casino will pay off winnings from mutiple new user bonuses.

As i familiarize myself more with this business it is becoming more apparent to me that the key to generating revenues for your casino is to offer tempting bonus offers then use a labrynth of rules, ambiguity, and misrepresentations to deny the bonus once recieved.

It is the ultimate hope that users will haphazzardly deposit into a casino either having overlooked, not being able to undertstand, or having misinterpreted a rule or restriction, thereby granting the casino "full right" to withhold or deny any winnings.

In the United States, companies often try to pull stunts like this, but in the end get slammed hard by juries in class action suits.

Operating out of a nation like Costa Rica may offer the casino operator some insulation from any outside legal attempt to prosecute fraud and material misrepresentations. However, I dont think its possible to dodge the bullet forever. Eventually the actions of casinos like Crown Vegas will lead to some regulatory mechanism that will likely focus on the payment processors of rogue casinos versus the casinos themselves.

 

[rainfall]

Crown vegas's policies are a two way street. I as well used the signup bonus. I lost.. Then i used the HEUTV code. I lost as well.

They are keeping my deposits? Naturally. No problem with that but they are not paying any winners? That is theft.

There were no terms in the GOM ad. It's a one page ad. There are 4 coupons in the ad. None of them say new or existing users. Unfortunately i dont' have the ad anymore but i'd love to get a scan of it up. Usually i scan these type of things but i was told crown vegas rivaled inetbet for honest. That appears not to be the case.

As with vcmav's case he is owed 4000.00 and you are rationalizing stealing his money because he received a 50.00 bonus? Where is the math here?

Take the bonus back, maybe even negotiate a middle group, but to steal the entire sum the only way that would be ok is to refund all losers who played the promotion as well.

When i was in high school i worked retail. When our retail store printed out an advertisement with no limit are explicit terms we were required to post a sign in the store by the product stating the adjustment to the terms. Otherwise we would let people have as many 1.99 case of coke they wanted. That's how business works. Otherwise we were being deceptive.

 

[oakleez]

Up until today i had a 700.00 cashout flat out stolen by crown vegas but all of a sudden this morning they changed their mind and decided to pay me.

I'm not sure if this thread is why but i'm just happy i finally got my money i was rightfully owed.

 

[davisd]

Add me to the list of those who were told they would get their deposits refunded but never saw it manifest

 

[jpm]

I'd love to see the ad myself, what issue was it in?

I agree with you rainfall that those who lost their deposits by using a second sign up bonus coupon should be refunded their deposits. And if it was stated somewhere that the second coupon used by someone who won money, whether it was $1 or $4000, was for initial deposit or new player bonus use, then they must also forfeit their winnings.

The players and/or the casino can't have it both ways, its gotta be enforced across the board. Void all play under that coupon and return the initial deposits to the players, whether they won or lost, if it was the second time they used a signup bonus/new player bonus coupon. But you can't tell them they have to pay the people who won AND refund the people who lost. That's inconsistent. Either all plays are null & void, or all plays stand and you gotta pay the winners and too bad for the losers.

The best way to avoid these problems is to read every word of the terms & conditions in the ads, on the website, and in the cashier window when you redeem the coupon. If you want to be 100% certain, call or email the casino BEFORE redeeming the coupon to ensure it is legitimate for you to use. Email would obviously be better, since it would provide a more binding agreement on the part of the casino and their agents who give you the answer. Never take advantage of ANY bonus without fully understanding all the nitty gritty terms & conditions that come with it. That's the only thing you have to fall back on should there be a problem. You may even want to save a copy of the terms & conditions page before you start to play, just in case.

I had a problem with a casino once that changed the terms of the promotion right after I redeemed it. Luckily, I'd saved a copy of the web page that listed the terms and after a week or two of arguing with them and throwing the web page in their face, they had to relent and honor the terms. I finally got my money, but if I hadn't had that to back me up, I probably would be out of luck.

 

[jetset]

It should be easy enough to get a scan of the GOM ad - email Eric Morris of GOM at emorris@hhcus.com
and we can resolve this once and for all.

Bryan, if you're not already on top of this, it sounds as if the casino needs to say something in response to these apparently factual aggrieved player posts?

BTW has anyone responded to your appeal on the deleted posts accusations yet?

 

[Casinomeister]

Never take advantage of ANY bonus without fully understanding all the nitty gritty terms & conditions that come with it. That's the only thing you have to fall back on should there be a problem. You may even want to save a copy of the terms & conditions page before you start to play, just in case.

Everyone should print that out and tape it to your monitor.

I contacted the casino on Crimmins behalf, and this was the response that I received last night:

[color=0000ff]The issue with this player is as follows. We had placed an ad in Gambling Online magazine giving a $55 Match bonus for new player accounts. We also have our standard $50 match bonus, (For new players) advertised on our website. Our rules on our website clearly state that you can only use one signup bonus. As this is automated in the software, and once the coupon is presented and no initial play has taken place, following the deposit, the coupon will be credited.
The rules are send to the player in the automated e-mail when he creates the account prior to start of play or deposit.
This is the section pertaining to this:[/color]

"FIRST DEPOSIT BONUS!
--------------------
Also called New Player Bonus. As a New player at Crown Vegas Casino you automatically qualify for a Signup Bonus.
Refer to our promotions page on our website to view current New Player Bonus. (Please take note that "New Player Promotions" are valid on your first deposit only. You may only redeem one new player bonus coupon per new account. You may only have ONE Account! See our Bonus Terms & Conditions for wagering requirements:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Crown Vegas may from time to time run different new player promotions and advertise various new player bonus coupons! You may only redeem one of those coupons!)"


[color=0000ff]This coupon was abused as he had no right to claim both signup coupons. We had explained this to the player and showed him all the rules on the website. He was given back all the moneys he had deposited.[/color]

So here they have given back this players deposits, and I assume he is still welcome to use "one" of these coupons. As for "losers" using two deposits via using two promotion bonuses, let me check on this. It seems as though one of these should be voided.

When i was in high school i worked retail. When our retail store printed out an advertisement with no limit are explicit terms we were required to post a sign in the store by the product stating the adjustment to the terms. Otherwise we would let people have as many 1.99 case of coke they wanted. That's how business works. Otherwise we were being deceptive.

Just a side note: True, that works in the states. But if this were to happen, let's say in Germany, they wouldn't need to make it in writing. They would merely tell you it was a mistake and let you buy the "one case". If you were to protest, the manager would probably pencil it in on the sign and throw you out the door.
german customer german store managers

BTW has anyone responded to your appeal on the deleted posts accusations yet?
Do you see any deleted posts being posted? Oh shit, maybe I'm deleting those posts too!

 

[rainfall]

If that doesn't prove anything.. Up until now Steve Bennet was denying the existence of the ad. If you look at the ad it will say nowhere that it is a new user bonus.

The bigger picture is crown did two things. They denied paying winners and kept money lost by losers (me).

Having screencaps only has as much power as the casino manager will give it, unfortunately.

The difference between germany and the usa as far as i have read is that germany has really cracked down on deceptive advertising. Where in the US deceptive advertising is the way things are.

I am so convinced you won't find that the coupon in the magainze says it's a new user bonus on the advertisement that i'll gladly donate my 105.00 (what i'm out) to casinomeister if i'm wrong.