Odds on Group casinos closed my accounts and took my winnings

[royalasn]

I received this email:
"Hi Phil,

This letter is in reference to the account you recently registered with Super
Slots, Silver Dollar and English Harbour Casino.

Based on the internal definition of the casino, you have been red-flagged for
promotional abuse. As per section 12 of the Terms and Conditions, the casino
reserves the right to block any accounts identified for promotional abuse and
refund the original purchase.

Deposits will be refunded through the method used to purchase.

This is the decision of casino Management and their decision is final.

Regards,

Virtual Exchange"
I was playing tens or better video poker and betting as much as $25 a spin which is allowed in the terms and conditions of the welcome bonus and met the wagering requirement. I cashed out $1109 at english harbour and was only given back my deposit of $275, $207 and given back my deposit of $50 at silver dollar, and $535 and give back my deposit of $100 and superslots. That totals winnings of $1426 that these casinos confiscated from me when I was absolutely playing within the terms and conditions of the bonuses.

 

[suzecat]

royalasn:

I checked out the T&C of the group and find you have a problem.

The Company reserves the right to cancel Player's account for any reason, and issue any balance in Player's account at the time of such cancellation. The Company also reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and refund the original purchase in your Casino account in any of the following circumstances:


If a Player has more than one active account within the group of casinos*.

* Casinos:
Apostle Casino
Casino(s) Blue Blanc Rouge
Caribbean Gold Casino(s)
English Harbor Casino(s)
Super Slots Casino(s)
Millionaire Casino
Magic Lamp Casino
All Poker Casino
Silver Dollar Casino(s)


A thorough reading of the posted terms and conditions are the first thing I do when looking for a place to wager. I also check with live chat to be sure I don't already have an account registered.

Limiting the number of active accounts within a group or family of casinos is pretty standard.
Best of luck to you.

 

[Vesuvio]

Limiting the number of active accounts within a group or family of casinos is pretty standard.

Almost unheard of, isn't it? Besides, this group have been caught out actively tempting people to open accounts at more than one casino if you see the other thread on this. It's a scam, and worse than the Virtual casino "group" scam, as these casinos do all appear to be individual casinos.

I guess I'm not the only one who saw the start of the title in the forums list - "Odds on Group casinos closed..." - and wished it was true

 

[suzecat]

Almost unheard of, isn't it? Besides, this group have been caught out actively tempting people to open accounts at more than one casino if you see the other thread on this. It's a scam, and worse than the Virtual casino "group" scam, as these casinos do all appear to be individual casinos.

I guess I'm not the only one who saw the start of the title in the forums list - "Odds on Group casinos closed..." - and wished it was true

Agreed Vesuvio. Some casinos seem to go out of their way to trick and deceive. Hence the caution to read T&Cs carefully before depositing. If this player had done so he would have seen the group's properties listed and would have known he would have a problem cashing out.

 

[Vesuvio]

If this player had done so he would have seen the group's properties listed and would have known he would have a problem cashing out.

True, though it's hard to rely on the terms and conditions. If you took them all at face value you'd never deposit at a single casino as they usually give themselves the right to do whatever they like.

A case in point was the Casino Rewards group which had a term saying bonuses wouldn't be given at more than one of their casinos. For months or years that wasn't the case, though it's true they did eventually start to apply it (without forums players would never know the actual terms and conditions at most casinos!).

 

[suzecat]

True, though it's hard to rely on the terms and conditions. If you took them all at face value you'd never deposit at a single casino as they usually give themselves the right to do whatever they like.

A case in point was the Casino Rewards group which had a term saying bonuses wouldn't be given at more than one of their casinos. For months or years that wasn't the case, though it's true they did eventually start to apply it (without forums players would never know the actual terms and conditions at most casinos!).

The gaming business has truly become hardcore. Perhaps we should put our thoughts together and come up with an online player's manual of tricks and deceptions. Unless you have read this forum for a while (and you have the memory of an elephant, lol) you might likely forget some of the stunts which have been pulled in the past.

 

[Vesuvio]

Royalasn, in case you didn't find it this is the other thread: https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...lish-harbor-group-stealing-my-winnings.10927/

It looks like there might be some hope...

 

[1819]

The gaming business has truly become hardcore. Perhaps we should put our thoughts together and come up with an online player's manual of tricks and deceptions. Unless you have read this forum for a while (and you have the memory of an elephant, lol) you might likely forget some of the stunts which have been pulled in the past.

great idea but there should be no reason to even have to put together such a manual. if even one land based casino pulled any stunt, like hundreds of online casinos get away with, they'd be out of business. sad truth is that, although many online casinos are reputable, putting any money, other than some fun money that you dont care what happens to, is insane. play, have fun, dont expect to win. it really is buyer beware.

 

[jetset]

"Perhaps we should put our thoughts together and come up with an online player's manual of tricks and deceptions."

Good idea, Suzecat - the way even formerly reputable casinos are starting to behave this looks to be a necessary aid to gamblers.

Problem is, how do we get this to the less experienced players? Most of the really savvy players know about fora such as this and wouldn't have the same need.

Maybe a series of articles on the top portals and online media? A weekly hint from Bryan's webcast?

 

[AussieDave]

The gaming business has truly become hardcore. Perhaps we should put our thoughts together and come up with an online player's manual of tricks and deceptions.

In theory this is an excellent idea

However it could very well be counter productive in so far as scaring newbie players away.

For what it's worth it brings forth an interesting debate imo on the pros & cons of the industry being self regulated.

 

[soflat]

In theory this is an excellent idea

However it could very well be counter productive in so far as scaring newbie players away.

For what it's worth it brings forth an interesting debate imo on the pros & cons of the industry being self regulated.

I think it is a good idea.

Good, reliable information should not scare new people away. The lack of info and regulation probably keeps many away. In fact, if the new players are going to be uninformed and get cheated, that is not good for them or the industry.

If I had found forums like this and true watchdog organizations several years ago when I first tried online gaming, I think I would have been doing this a lot more. But as it was, I stopped playing and only recently returned when I felt more confidence.

 

[Vesuvio]

If I had found forums like this and true watchdog organizations several years ago when I first tried online gaming, I think I would have been doing this a lot more. But as it was, I stopped playing and only recently returned when I felt more confidence.

Slightly different perspective... but I think it's a good thing when players are wary of casinos and reluctant to play there. It saves money and avoids the chance of developing a potentially life-ruining habit. It's when casinos are welcoming, trusted and 100% reliable we need to start worrying

 

[royalasn]

Well I pm'd MC_Host over a week ago and haven't received any kind of response so I guess I'll have to PaB, would've much rather just worked things out with MC_Host, but what can ya do?

 

[royalasn]

my accounts were unlocked today so just waiting for my withdrawals to be processed and hopefully that'll be the end of it. Thanks everyone

 

[Aindreas_Daoc]

The Company reserves the right to cancel Player's account for any reason, and issue any balance in Player's account at the time of such cancellation. The Company also reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and refund the original purchase in your Casino account in any of the following circumstances:


If a Player has more than one active account within the group of casinos*.

* Casinos:
Apostle Casino
Casino(s) Blue Blanc Rouge
Caribbean Gold Casino(s)
English Harbor Casino(s)
Super Slots Casino(s)
Millionaire Casino
Magic Lamp Casino
All Poker Casino
Silver Dollar Casino(s)

Yet at the same time they send out snail mail spam with a CD of all the casinos in their group, as well as advertising "Over $1000 in bonuses!"

They can have it one way or the other, but advertising a whole package of casinos (and bonuses), then banning people when they sign up at more than one is just rougish business practice.

 

[suzecat]

I don't think anyone is saying that taking up bonus offers only to win -- and then lose -- does not just plain suck. As the industry becomes wiser to the ways players manage to win some cash, players must, in turn, become even wiser. Reading the T&Cs before depositing at any casino is the best way to become familiar with the myriad of ways the casino is attempting a sly "bait and switch" tactic. In other words, do not assume that because the casino sends you a CD (with a host of bonus offers) that you can safely interpret that to mean you can take up the whole lot. It also would not be unwise to check with live support to see if YOUR interpretation of the rules is the same as THEIR interpretation.

I know, I know, when you want to play you don't want to spend the time it takes to cover your a$$. But perhaps compare that initial use of time to the time it takes for CM to sort out a problem and then decide what is the wiser course of action. I'd say give your blood pressure a break and be certain of the gamble.

 

[jetset]

Good post, Suzecat - you could call this "defensive research!"

 

[amandajm]

Send out a CD with various casinos affering $1000 in bonuses between them.

Reserve the right to close accounts of people who have 1 account at various casnos in the group. But 1 punter above has had the accoiunts reopened.

Defensive investigation needed or a crystal ball.

The industry is moving forward at pace it seems. Then going even faster backward.

IF these allegations are true, the firm is rogue. I don't care who is in charge.

 

[suzecat]

Good post, Suzecat - you could call this "defensive research!"

Thanks Jet! Defensive research - I like that. It seems that players who have done their research (taken screenshots of terms, etc.) do prevail in dispute situations BECAUSE they have proof of what they allege. Those that have not undertaken their research have no proof (and no recourse).

Since we never know beforehand what each gambling session will bring, it seems rather foolish to increase your odds of losing by not having something to back up any claim that might arise.


amandajm, you say the casinos with slippery tactics are rogue. I say they are forced to be clever to order to survive and gamblers must then be wiser to win. It does make the game very interesting.............

We all know that CM will bust out anyone (player or casino) who proves to be shady/risky/untruthful, etc., but being clever? I hope not.

 

[chuchu59]

"Perhaps we should put our thoughts together and come up with an online player's manual of tricks and deceptions."

Good idea, Suzecat - the way even formerly reputable casinos are starting to behave this looks to be a necessary aid to gamblers.

Problem is, how do we get this to the less experienced players? Most of the really savvy players know about fora such as this and wouldn't have the same need.

Maybe a series of articles on the top portals and online media? A weekly hint from Bryan's webcast?

However much we may not like GOM, maybe this is the best medium to reach the inexperienced players. Come to think of it, many posters here simply deplore getting a copy of this magazine but I understand they do reach a wide audience. Perhaps if we could ask for contributions from experienced posters on the 'dos' and 'donts' of online gambling for example (reward the winning contributor with 100 rep points heh heh) and if Bryan could liaise with GOM to publish these things regularly,it would benefit many players who are experiencing what we did several years ago.

 

[amandajm]

I respect that mentality in general Suze.

However, I have seen players who come online, find a casino, play and expect to be paid out noted as being naive.

I have gambled all of my life. I have never had to research anything more than what horse will win a race etc. That is where online gambling needs to get to I guess.

With firms like this forcing players to be "clever" in order to get paid if they win, I shake my head.

 

[suzecat]

I respect that mentality in general Suze.

However, I have seen players who come online, find a casino, play and expect to be paid out noted as being naive.

I have gambled all of my life. I have never had to research anything more than what horse will win a race etc. That is where online gambling needs to get to I guess.

With firms like this forcing players to be "clever" in order to get paid if they win, I shake my head.

Naive is not a bad thing; it does suggest that more information is needed to make wise decisions. Hopefully, naive players come here and get some of that information and therefore become wiser players.

In a perfect gaming world, the player would deposit at a casino, play the games of his/her choosing, maybe win a little money and be paid post haste. So, it's not a perfect world -- it is a generally unregulated world -- the rules are changing but still have a long way to go.

Although not always the case (as there are many fine casinos who do not practice being clever) it boils down to an "us vs. them" mentality. The casino provides the bandwidth to its players and in return accepts their deposits. Fine and dandy. The rub is that (gasp!) when the players win, they want to be paid, and be quick about it. Perhaps it is just human nature, but the "giving the money back to the player" seems to be the difficult part. Hence the cleverness comes into play.

We can stop gambling online and go to B&Ms for our amusement or we can get smarter about clever casinos and keep playing in the leisure of our home. The choice is always ours to make. Hopefully players see forums such as this serve the useful purpose of highlighting clever casinos and how to avoid the pitfalls that make the gaming experience less than enjoyable.

 

[amandajm]

Naive as in "you thought you could come online, play any old casino and get paid"? I don't like that naive Suze. I prefer your version for sure.

It is getting worse again out here aswell. One needs their head testing to want to watchdog over this crowd.

 

[suzecat]

It is getting worse again out here aswell. One needs their head testing to want to watchdog over this crowd.

As time trudges on, I expect to see more "creative marketing" by some casinos. That's okay, I accept the challenge LOL!

I've said it before and I know I will say it again........kudos to CM for taking on this forum for all these years and for swimming in (sometimes) shark-infested waters. If THE CM tells me that "these casinos are OK" or "these casinos are NOT" you can bet I will believe him!

 

[jsp377]

You can say that it's ok for the casinos to be clever and try to screw the bonus hunters, but they're also screwing regular and new customers also; I can't see an industry succeeding where the relationship between provider and consumer is so adversarial.