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Novibet verify - "accredited" and confused. This is fully stupid now.

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by 5ta, Feb 4, 2018.

    Feb 4, 2018
  1. 5ta

    5ta Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    DTP'er
    Location:
    West Midlands
    The whole industry is a mess in this regard and I for one won't be complicit.

    Some of you know recently, I was put through the DNA test wringer and simply couldn't produce what they "wanted" not needed. Some of you quoted the law and how it's an ass but it's simply not the law.

    They paid my withdrawal. I didn't give them a utility bill. They also still want to see it. I am happy for them to verify this is true but let me just say that again;

    They demanded I provide :
    1. Driving license (front and back - shows my address)
    2. Bank card (front and back - obscure certain numbers)
    3. Utility bill (fully visible)

    They paid my withdrawal yet I did NOT provide number three, I am not able to. I did provide some screenshots of my online banking. They still want the utility bill. I still cannot provide it.

    To finish, the industry SHOULD be demanding the DNA test before accepting deposits. Anything else, is entrapment if you cannot have your money back.
     
  2. Feb 4, 2018
  3. brianleeporter

    brianleeporter Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Butcher
    Location:
    liverpool-England
    Same happened with me at a casino. Utility bill I provided was out of date but they still paid my withdrawal.

    So not sure if I am fully verified but my withdrawals still get processed haha.
     
    5ta likes this.
  4. Feb 5, 2018
  5. 5ta

    5ta Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    DTP'er
    Location:
    West Midlands
    I can only wonder why this is a gaping hole in the industry that no one wants to fix.
     
  6. Feb 5, 2018
  7. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    With regard to your first post, it is the law. Just because you don't like the answer, it doesn't mean its wrong.
     
  8. Feb 5, 2018
  9. 5ta

    5ta Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    DTP'er
    Location:
    West Midlands
    That's clearly not even true. My affection for the answer is irrelevant.
     
  10. Feb 5, 2018
  11. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    Again, don't like the answer, doesn't mean it's incorrect, plenty of people posted on the other thread telling you the same. Its all there in UKGC documents explaining about how casinos HAVE to KYC as part of their license conditions.
     
    Guntis likes this.
  12. Feb 5, 2018
  13. 5ta

    5ta Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    DTP'er
    Location:
    West Midlands
    I don't really care if the pope passed by and blessed a 60ft billboard. If he or you can't consume post one for what it is, it means nothing.
     
  14. Feb 5, 2018
  15. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Pre-deposit verification ought to be mandatory to cut out all the confusion anyway. Though generally not too much of a hassle in most cases, no one enjoys the rigmarole of being asked for Id after. Especially given how casinos ask for different documents at different establishments.

    Still, these are the 'good' times. Can't wait for the Source of Wealth shenanigans to really kick in, when the real fun begins :mad:
     
    5ta likes this.
  16. Feb 5, 2018
  17. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    Have a look through regulation 14 of the anti money laundering act 2007 and tell me casinos don't have to ask for ID and what you base your theory on. I'm sure all the casinos will be happy to hear your expert legal advice to save time and money having to look at identity documents.
     
  18. Feb 5, 2018
  19. GC_Konstantin

    GC_Konstantin Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    Administrator at Gambling City Network
    Location:
    Gambling Ctiy
    Congrats (or not) for getting your money without fully complying ... it is a good thing that you faced good will and been credited your money.

    But listen to me: if you plan to play at any online casinos ever again, before placing your next deposit, contact Security Department of each casino where you want to play at and tell them exactly what documents are you able to send them (make sure the documents are not expired and ask them by email to confirm that they will process all your withdrawals without requesting any other documents than the specified ones you told them are able to provide). Only once you get their confirmation, proceed with your deposit !

    Also, to avoid headaches do your extensive homework and make sure you play at reputable casinos (like the ones on the Accredited List from CM and also Google to compare how the casinos you target behaved at other similar portals and complaint boards) so you do not have the unpleasant surprise that you will confront with a different reality when wanting to withdraw your bucks.

    Clear ? -- If still not clear, then please never deposit again at any online casino. It is for your own benefit. Thank me later ! ;) :) :thumbsup:
     
    colinsunderland likes this.
  20. Feb 5, 2018
  21. nutnut

    nutnut 30 day suspension - trollish behavior

    Occupation:
    IP consultant
    Location:
    england
    unless you're a illegal immigrant or a child every adult has a utility bill.
     
  22. Feb 5, 2018
  23. 5ta

    5ta Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    DTP'er
    Location:
    West Midlands
    What's wrong with you ? Post one explains what happened. Post two states a similar or same thing happened to them. There's no need to get a law degree or claim post one is a theory when it is a factual post of what happened.

    GC_Konstantin - What I am saying is the industry should be rightly doing this itself before taking deposits. It stops the whole problem and I truly am not sure when with such issues and legalities, why the industry puts the consumer in such a potential position. It is not upto the consumer to know this is going to happen therefore prepare for it. I thought they had me in a trap and couldn't see how to get out of it. Even CM here told me to get a grip when I still couldn't see a way out.

    ================

    I'm not sure why telling the industry to prevent stress and fill the gaping hole, is such a problem to some people on this forum, but I do realise some people have ulterior motives in this world and I guess it's much easier to not care than it is to worry about potential rapid sign ups to companies, affiliates and losing money. Funny that.

    This needs to stop. Not for me, because I am duly informed now, but the future millions of people who will not know this crap. It's quite simple, if you need the DNA test doing, get it done before you take the money.
     
  24. Feb 5, 2018
  25. 5ta

    5ta Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    DTP'er
    Location:
    West Midlands
    so I'm and 8 year old syrian with axle greased hands now. Think outside the box.....
     
  26. Feb 5, 2018
  27. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    Whats quite simple is, if you tick a box to say you have read and agree with the terms and conditions, then make sure you do, especially when they clearly contain a term that tells you you have to do what you are complaining about doing.

    You are complaining about a casino following the law. That is all. No matter how many times you say it isn't, it is, I've even told you where to look to read it yourself. Much like the T&C's, obviously you can't be bothered, and continue to insist everyone is wrong except you.
     
    budskap and ed skull murphy like this.
  28. Feb 5, 2018
  29. GC_Konstantin

    GC_Konstantin Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    Administrator at Gambling City Network
    Location:
    Gambling Ctiy
    I agree that that is the best where this industry could go and do. But honestly, that is a utopia and won't happen as a trend (unless legally imposed).
    Many people get frustrated along the KYC verification process and cancel their withdrawals and gamble their wins. This a truth any casino is aware of.

    The thing is, every person should do as I said (but few will follow) and they will be OK. The peeps should not be waiting for the system to feed them.

    Keep it Safe,
    Denis
     
  30. Feb 5, 2018
  31. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    They won't do it as it would kill sign ups, massively. Which is understandable. If I sign up for a new casino to play, I don't want to have to send documents over before I can play. I usually do before I start, but then play while I'm waiting for them to be approved.

    I said in the other thread, a compromise would be to have, on the sign up form, a section stating 'Legally we have to verify your identity. I agree to providing identification within 7 days of opening the account. Please note, if you do not provide this your account will be locked. Also note, we cannot legally process a withdrawal until this has been done. A link to all documents we accept is here.

    That way there is no way customers can say they didn't know, if they don't provide it they can't complain, and casinos have to pro-actively do KYC rather than waiting for a customer to withdraw, therefore delaying the withdrawal.
     
    GC_Konstantin likes this.
  32. Feb 5, 2018
  33. theapple

    theapple IR hates apples

    Occupation:
    i work... slave labor sort of work. like most of u
    Location:
    far far away
    that wouldnt solve anything because casinos would probably add it as a T&C line, paragraph 2917.4

    Wishful thinking only but it would be great if it was shown as a popup on its own, rather than hidden in T&C but the reality is casinos would just hide it in their terms. Every new law that ukgc and others make up, casinos find a way to turn it into their favor and delay cashouts even more.

    not quite true. Didnt really want to open this can of worms but... While it works like that for reputable places like VS, Trada and such there are hundreds casinos out there with plain unethical and illogical T&C (laws?), that wouldnt hold on any court. T&C is not above the law, end off. They might add stuff like "we own your soul now, click to proceed if you agree with our terms" and you would have to agree with it if you want to play there. It doesnt mean its legal though. Its just in their T&C, thats all.

    Stuff like limiting your cashouts to 500, or 2000 a week, or 5x your recent deposit... limiting cashouts to 2k while you can deposit 5k at a time ?!? Its in T&C There are casinos that have 2k max bet size (playtech) but wont let you cashout more than 2k per month (?). Theres 1000's of other examples of stuff that would be overruled by courts but combination of casinos being licensed at random places, plus players being too passive and unwilling to take casinos to courts is what led us to this point where we just say "hey you accepted their T&C, just shrug it off".

    Ive been saying it for years, online casinos business as a whole reassembles to wild wild west era, and casinos are often not bound by rules that all other spheres of life have to follow and they live in their own little world, so im super happy about ukgc doing small stuff to make things feel less like a mess and more like a proper business regulated in 21st century.

    As i said this is not aimed at places that are run properly but there are literally 1000's of casinos that are scamming players on daily basis and its all happening because... their T&C allows them do so.
     
    GC_Konstantin likes this.
  34. Feb 5, 2018
  35. GC_Konstantin

    GC_Konstantin Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    Administrator at Gambling City Network
    Location:
    Gambling Ctiy
    I'm not sure would kill sign ups massively as long as all online casinos will follow suit and there will be left no alternative (but as I said, that is utopia). Personally, for years I've been submitting my documents (front and back Driver License + recent Bank Statement) before making my deposit and told them so and told them with what method I will deposit and withdraw (web wallet usually) and asked them to confirm that they will never want any other documents from me as long as I will not change my home address, deposit method or name.

    Most were OK and in less than 24h I could start depositing and playing knowing that I am already fully verified. Some pickier ones, also wanted me to firstly deposit and provide them with a screen shot (or two) of my web wallet showing my name and home address, phone number and verified status (and the web browser bar) and the deposit transaction to their casino. And also send them a selfie of me holding my Driver License near the face. Fair enough even though that meant a further 24h delay before I could start playing. But I never experienced a problem with like new requests of documents on withdrawals, and I had many fat ones.

    To be completely honest, there were some casinos (like BetOnline) telling me that new document requests may come to me after a period of X months (usually 6 -- they were requesting new Bank Statement copy) to make sure I still live at the given address. At these casinos I asked a waiver from the said re-verification rule in order to deposit. If I got the agreement for the waiver, I deposited and played (but always treated these with a grant of salt) and never had a problem. If I didn't got the agreement for the waiver, I told them "thank you for being honest" and never made my deposit there.

    I like your compromise proposal on overall (I would do some modifications to it like instead of 7 days, give them only 1 full business day to provide the documents and display the needed documents with a check box for each document on the sign up form instead of a link to be checked). That will still not prevent the new player from depositing and playing straight on the go and will even more clearly display the withdrawal requirements right on the Sign Up Form because the player will need to manually check at least 3 documents which will provide before his account will be closed (or after his account has been closed, in order to be re-opened so he can play being already fully verified). -- But as I said above, this will quite affect the extra edge of the casinos since there will not be so many reversed withdrawals (which means less wagers at the slots / tables = less profit for the casinos). So, that's why I call this utopia. It is something that will not happen as long as it will not be imposed by law.

    Keep it Safe,
    Denis
     
    colinsunderland likes this.
  36. Feb 5, 2018
  37. interlog

    interlog Senior Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    London
    Isn't there a system in one of the Nordic countries where you need to have a Government issued gambling ID? Without that ID you can't gamble. That would stop all the verification sheninigans in my opinion.
     
  38. Feb 5, 2018
  39. GC_Konstantin

    GC_Konstantin Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    Administrator at Gambling City Network
    Location:
    Gambling Ctiy
    T&C's and the need for them should be another thread I think, but:

    1) these terms shall speak in plain English so every average Joe understand what they say and not be in "legalese" so only a lawyer can fully understand the signification or nuances of certain terms

    2) these should be restricted to a certain number of characters (so it does not eat over 2.6 hours of your time to read them carefully in order to give a just a couple of spins in the casino)

    - mentioning of what bet sizes are allowed and what games are allowed in certain situation should only briefly stated and restricted by software so player can't break the terms by default
    - mentioning the maximum cashout per withdrawal method as well as maximum per month which can be withdrawn including progressive jackpot policy and maximum time frame it can take to be paid
    - the KYC verification process should be made clear on the sign up process as I described in my previous post, inspired by Colinsuderland's proposal and only briefly reminded in the T&C's
    - remove pretty much everything else blah blah from the T&C's (Malta, Curacao etc licenses shall be clickable seals as well as copyrights and certified RNG)

    3) these terms should never be thrown on player's responsibility to be checked every time before they come back to play but as soon as the player logged into his account a big pop up should scream:

    - the T&C have been changed ! Check paragraphs: A, C, X, Y and Z (only the paragraphs which were changed since the last log in from the said player), don't put him to read the full T&C's again !

    But again, all my above points go against the extra edge of the casinos and is part of the utopia thing. When not clear, people should spend time contacting the Support Department to get their clue.

    Keep it Safe,
    Denis
     
    theapple likes this.

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