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Not all new--Just rehashing my old thread with an update.

Discussion in 'Skill Games' started by pmutts, Jul 9, 2014.

    Jul 9, 2014
  1. pmutts

    pmutts Senior Member PABnonaccred

    Hotel Sales
    North Texas
    Here is a thread I started nearly 3 years ago. My knowledge and experience playing Blackjack spans over 30 years. I started in the early 82 when you could still find plenty of Single Deck games with optimal rules--even though the Pitt was constantly looking for any player who knew how to exploit them.

    On the Strip, the 4 Deck and Double Deck games were in some places still like taking candy from a baby. With each successive trip to Las Vegas, (and I was going about twice a month on average) it never failed that I would see where what had previously been a good or GREAT game that had been turned into an inferior game. By 1984, the 4 Deck shoe was all but gone and 6 Decks was the norm.

    Single decks were fewer and fewer and the casinos made CERTAIN nobody got play at anything less than a full table for any length of time.

    Deck penetration deteriorated everywhere--regardless of the number of decks. Then they decided 6 decks weren't enough and the 8 Deck shoes (already common in Atlantic City) began to pop up everywhere.

    Finally, the dreaded Continuous Shoe debuted. The Shuffle Master "King." 6 Decks placed in that monstrosity of a contraption with the cards placed in the right back in the machine after EVERY single hand. Bellagio was and still is the singular place that went from Prime conditions in it's first two years to the poorest conditions anywhere by 2002---unless you were playing $100 - $500 a hand minimum.

    Still--with skill and diligence--Blackjack is the ONLY casino table game that can be beaten over the long-term with a slight edge over the house. With the highest skill set in the most prime conditions you may gain 1% over the house. .3 to .5% is much more likely and only if you know where and how to play.

    So, I am once again posting the link to the thread I started shortly when I was still relatively new to CM.

    2 people like this.
  2. Aug 5, 2014
  3. NetEntFollower

    NetEntFollower Dormant account webby

    Technical Manager
    Sorry to hear your game went down the hole. Things always change and it's not always for the better. Keep your nostalgia alive and enjoy playing :)
  4. Dec 9, 2015
  5. Gambler140

    Gambler140 Full Member

    Basic Strategy Card

    I don't know the dealer rules/player allowed options that the basic strategy card you've posted refers to. I would like to find out just for my own curiosity the rules/options.
    All my blackjack experience is from Australian casinos and I'm sure you'd have a hugely wider variation in the different types of the game you could come across in somewhere like Vegas!

    The basic strategy I know says to never double against a dealer's 8,9,10,A. Never split 9's, Always stand on soft 18,19,20, Never surrender (but take even money when insurance is offered if you have BJ).
    There's quite a few others that differ, but that's enough of a list for now.

    I'm sure that your basic strategy card is spot on for the type of blackjack it's for, that's why I'm interested in the rules for this blackjack type.

    Maybe you could PM me a link to the rules, or post one here if that's allowed?

    Cheers mate :)
  6. Dec 10, 2015
  7. hhhelllo

    hhhelllo Senior Member

    Modern age slavery
    You can google optimal blackjack strategy to learn the basics.8 8? Split!!!
  8. Dec 10, 2015
  9. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Bexhill on sea, England
    My strategy is very simple: Like all casino games, the house edge is against you.
    So play, enjoy, and if you happen to be lucky enough to win and get ahead of your starting balance, smile at the dealer, take your chips, and walk away from the table.

    It's really not rocket science chaps! ;)

    1 person likes this.
  10. Dec 10, 2015
  11. MightyDuck

    MightyDuck Experienced Member

    electrical engineer
    I hope you can share more information about your trips in the early 80's.
    How did you play? Which system did you employ? Where did you play? The rules? How was your spread? Did you win something in the end?
    This and your original thread in 2011 are great to read. Keep it up!
  12. Dec 12, 2015
  13. pmutts

    pmutts Senior Member PABnonaccred

    Hotel Sales
    North Texas
    There is only one Basic Strategy . . . depending on house rules

    Hello Gambler140,

    The chart posted assumes typical Las Vegas Strip Rules: It can be used in any game from 2 - 8 Decks. House rules allow you to double down on any first 2 cards (including double after split).

    I'm uncertain where you got your Basic Strategy Info but I suspect it was provided by the casino.

    You should never take insurance--even when the dealer shows an Ace (but the house will insist this is the correct play).

    You should always hit soft 18 against a 9, 10, or A and Double Down on Soft 18 (if allowed) if dealer shows a 3 - 6.

    You split 9s againsty a dealer 9 or less except a 7.

    Always Double on 11 unless dealer shows an ACE.

    All good Blackjack books will offer correct variations depending upon house rules.

    I'm happy to see new life in this old thread. Thanks for the questions!
    1 person likes this.
  14. Dec 12, 2015
  15. pmutts

    pmutts Senior Member PABnonaccred

    Hotel Sales
    North Texas
    Ahhh, Playing BJ in Vegas in the early 80s!

    Hello MightyDuck!

    Thank you for your interest. I'm thrilled to see new life and interest in this old thread.

    How did you play? Sometimes aggressively, sometimes not aggressively enough. It depended on the amount of heat coming from the pit. There were many times that I was simply on a lucky roll but because I was a counter, I was afraid to press it hard and that cost me countless thousands. I also chased into losing streaks all to often thinking my counting skills would dig me out---which they did sometimes. More often than not however, I ended up a big loser on those trips.

    Which system did you employ? I used the Hi-Opt One with a side count on Aces. This system is presented in "The Worlds Greatest Blackjack Book" and I still use it with some modifications to make it more current.

    Where did you play? Keep in mind, none of this is relevant today: The Sands, The Riviera, Circus Circus, Caesar's Palace, The Las Vegas Hilton, The (original) MGM Grand, the Tropicana, the Imperial Palace, The Golden Nugget, The Horseshoe, The Mint, and just about about anywhere else I could find a good game.

    The Rules? I looked for Single, Double, or 4 Deck games. Typically the dealer would stand on soft 17 on the strip or hit downtown. Double on any first 2 cards (including Double after split). Insurance 2 to 1. BJ paid 3 - 2.

    How was your spread? That is a VERY good question and so crucial to the bottom line for player advantage. I bet 1 - 4 in Single/Double Deck games and 1 - 8 on the 4 Deck Shoe. This was modified depending upon the amount of heat from the pit.

    Did you win something in the end? I should have kept better records. Yes, overall, in the early 80s I did win. I lived off my winnings and quite comfortably for 3 years. I could have won so much more if I had avoided chasing into losing streaks. By late 1985, with casino counter measures, and my own self weakness, it became apparent that it was time to get a job. I ended up working for Hilton for the next 7 years. I chose them because that is where I lost the most money--the Las Vegas Hilton. LOL. It is the truth! I continued to play as I worked for Hilton to supplement my meager income. I stayed at the Las Vegas or Flamingo Hilton as an employee on a comp frequently----so I was not required to give them action for the comp.

    Thanks for your excellent questions and I'm happy to see more interest in this old thread.
    1 person likes this.
  16. Dec 13, 2015
  17. MightyDuck

    MightyDuck Experienced Member

    electrical engineer
    Thank you for the thorough reply.

    When I started to play BJ more seriously it was already in the early 2000's and I went to Vegas just 2 times. A friend of mine told me as long as you don't overextend they let you play, even as a counter. The low-roller tables usually have bad rules and they just don't care if you have a 1-5 spread with $5 to $25. However here in Europe where a 6 deck shoe is standard and the quality of games is determined by the penetration you need to employ a substantial spread to gain something. I actually played a 1-40 spread before I quit. (min €10 and €400 when TC is 3 or higher, using High-Low).

    You have to know that casino people expect a tip when you get a BJ on those big bets in some European casinos, so usually they expect €20 from a €400 BJ. You can imagine that this is basically your advantage and when you deny them they tip well... it's at least bad etiquette.

    I should head over to the States next year. I don't care if they give me a bloody nose when I play a tad too aggressively :D
    It is just more interesting to play in Vegas with far better rules and no necessity to tip the dealer.

    Back in your days in the 80's... you could earn some serious money with some self-discipline and a healthy bankroll. Nice to see that you could make a living for quite a while though.

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