North Korea and US politics

[geordiecolin]

Banning Ben on the will of this clique just smacks of oppression and panders to their determination to see that only their opinion is worthy.

Ben was called a racist.

Their anti racism in this thread is totally at odds with their disregard for racism pointed out in the Corona thread that has happened recently because it didn't suit their argument and cause in that thread

Those in this clique are the very same ones who post in the corona thread. I pointed out to them real evidence that vaccines provided by Gates killed and maimed 100.s of thousands in Africa and Asian Countries in the corona thread.

3 times I posted the below and no one wished to comment. So they where not interested in racism when it came to abusing blacks and Asians when it came to vaccines but they are so anti racism when it suits because its attacking Trump with that stick.
Here is the article that they where not interested in which proves they did not care about blacks or Asians when it suited them.

Old URL Please read my post 5497

Kennedy never publishes anything that is not peer reviewed or on record in congress or is being legally argued and his original articles are always complete with links to proven evidence. He only publishes facts.


It clearly states that I posted it a number of times and I was met with silence or it was dismissed as nothing to be concerned about.
Total hypocrites bordering on outright racism because black lives didn't matter when it came to vaccines as long as they got their vaccine for Corona.

And if I posted a picture of my two black daughters will I get accused of making these people feel bad?

My two University educated black daughters would just shake their heads at how the race card is being used against Trump in this thread.

Edit. I think that for the most part these fora are self policing and reported posts are better of dealt with via PM first rather than using a heavy hand. But this is not my house

 

[maxd]

We need members like Ben. It feels that he is being blamed and judged rather harshly.

That is exactly the question. Do we "need" someone who makes a habit of stomping on people all the time? Opinions are one thing, how you choose to share and express them is something else entirely.

I can say "I like pancakes. Do you?" or I can say "I love pancakes and anyone who doesn't is a ^%&% and *^%*&^% them". The former is no problem. The latter is a problem because it creates a lot of pointless drama, insults the membership, etc.

I'll be frank, I am far from unbiased in Playford's case. AFAICT he is a divisive troll who feeds off of hostility and forum brawls. Full stop.

If I'm correct in that then he doesn't belong here and the latest decision against him is well and good. If I'm wrong ... then obviously a different approach is required when it comes to dealing with him.

As to the latest being "oppression" or whatever I can only point at the string of forum problems that Playford has been directly responsible for and say this: if someone comes into your space and aims to burn the house down then giving them the boot is not "oppression" it's responsible management. That's the question we're asking here and I'd appreciate it if we could focus on that.

 

[ternur]

That is exactly the question. Do we "need" someone who makes a habit of stomping on people all the time? Opinions are one thing, how you choose to share and express them is something else entirely.

I can say "I like pancakes. Do you?" or I can say "I love pancakes and anyone who doesn't is a ^%&% and *^%*&^% them". The former is no problem. The latter is a problem because it creates a lot of pointless drama, insults the membership, etc.

I'll be frank, I am far from unbiased in Playford's case. AFAICT he is a divisive troll who feeds off of hostility and forum brawls. Full stop.

If I'm correct in that then he doesn't belong here and the latest decision against him is well and good. If I'm wrong ... then obviously a different approach is required when it comes to dealing with him.

I disagree with your opinion about Ben.

I don't think he's a troll, far from it. We do have trolls on board, they are just harder to spot.

Ben does have a way of posting that might seem like he's trolling. But to me, more than anything, he seems to be a person who has some flaws in his communication skills and wears his heart on his sleeve.

A certain level of drama is also needed imo. But we have a pretty great memberbase here. A lot of these situations can, and should, be left for the memberbase to deal with (without bans). Many times the thread will naturally correct it's course.

Of course serious offenses need to dealt with. But this was not the case here imho. Others may disagree with me, but that's how it should be. Right?

It also seems that some members have a problem with other members and might be more prone to report these members' posts. Of course this is something they should be allowed to do. But is it something that should be taken at face value? Some get offended more easily than others. And sometimes the underlying issue is poor communication more than anything.

 

[maxd]

Good points. FWIW we take complaints as advice, not as marching orders. In Playford's case it is true that the complaints often -- but not always! -- come from the same people. Obviously we take that into account when yet another "situation" arises.

Here my decision was not particularly influenced by the complaints, beyond simply being alerted to the issue at hand. My problem is that (AFAIK) Playford promised to stay out of the political threads and yet the majority of his recent posts have been in the political threads. Also, it was made crystal clear to him that habitually bashing other forum members was no longer an option for him and yet here he is again, bashing away.

My bottom line is this: if Playford is not being a problem then there is no problem. If he's back doing the same old shit then he's not worth the effort and deserves the curb. If he was here and I was never bothered again with his crap then I'd be perfectly happy to forget about him and tend to other business. If he keeps coming up on the "problems to tend to" list then his fate is simple and plain to see IMO.

 

[ternur]

I understand your position Max.

I have to admit, that at first I had big problems with Ben's opinions. Mainly because I disagreed with a lot of them. And I let that affect my opinion about him.

But after I engaged in conversations with him, my opinion changed. I found out he's actually a decent guy. I've been in the same position with other members here too. But I see it as my problem, not theirs.

This is a common problem online. We either misjudge people or don't want to engage with them in a level that would open up our own view of the world. Seeing behing the veil of ignorance one could say (not saying ignorance is at play here).

I'm a big believer in treating everyone with respect. But I also fail at that myself sometimes.

Maybe we should use more warnings instead of out right bans? Since it's a function of the forum software, it might be effective in steering conversations if they are on the verge of getting out of hand?

Edit: I also think some members post without thinking too much when they are drinking. This is not a problem for me since I don't drink.

 

[vorcirion]

I don't mind having Playford here. It can get personal sometimes but he'll get some heavy things thrown back at him too for sure As long as he stays away insulting some certain groups like trans people, muslims, black people etc...I'd like him back too!

 

[snorky510238]

Food for thought.

When engaging in this type of activity there has to be rules and boundaries in place (which there are). As a member you have to abide by them or face the consequences.

As Max says, there is a permissible way to put your case across and there are ways that are not. When posting, members should be mindful of this and refrain from being disrespectful towards others with whom they totally disagree.

It is after all, only an opinion and if you do not like it that does not warrant being abusive. Can the goalposts be moved for certain individuals? No certainty not, imagine trying to draw different lines for everyone of us and the problems that would create.

Ask yourself this question. If the alleged, offensive posts had been made by a newbie, what would the likely outcome and reaction from the majority of the forum have been?

I have never reported anyone, despite having quite a few aggressive posts aimed my way. It really doesn’t bother me, as I am not easily offended but that doesn’t mean everyone else’s tolerance levels are the same.

Like I said at the start, this is “food for thought” and I am not passing judgement but merely pointing out the things that need to be considered when making decisions, using a measure that is equal and fair for all.

 

[colinsunderland]

Was it in this thread someone implied Playford was a racist? If so then I can understand angry posts. Presumably that person has been suspended/banned too?

 

[Borgie]

I don't see it that way Max. Ben has strong opinions on some issues, but don't we all?

We need members like Ben. It feels that he is being blamed and judged rather harshly.

I agree that people should be allowed their opinions. Even extreme ones. However the post max quoted is about playfords direct attack on mouche it was done in a spiteful and unnecessary way. Plus if you are on bail which playford sort of was you need to be on your best behaviour not open your mouth and let anything you want to flow forth.

Playford can be great when talking about his dog and his daughter and cooking. He is fun and friendly. However certain subjects bring out his dark side. Until he can learn to put things in a politer way it's always going to ignite the forum.

Plus it's up to Bryan I guess but how many chances does someone get. Unlimited? Maybe so as its Bryan's house but I actually found the last set of comments from a few nights back deeply unsettling. Almost scary actually and at least one post was edited after to tone it down.

Its all very unpleasant.

 

[maxd]

Presumably that person has been suspended/banned too?

You know as well as I do that Playford is the one we're discussing here who habitually abuses other forum members and is also the only one I'm aware of that has been put on probation because of that and other problems. The necessity of dealing with his BS is what's at issue here.

 

[colinsunderland]

You know as well as I do that Playford is the one we're discussing here who habitually abuses other forum members and is also the only one I'm aware of that has been put on probation because of that and other problems. The necessity of dealing with his BS is what's at issue here.

Yes I do know that, just as certain members know how to wind him up, sit back and wait for the inevitable reaction then start hammering the report button. This is what was posted towards him directly, as soon as I saw that I knew what the outcome would be, and I'm sure the person who posted it did too. It's also clearly abusing another forum member.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think you are a racist -- but we all know you aren't, right?

I don't see how posting that is any better than anything Playford posted, and as far as it clearly can't be proven it was trolling, it certainly looks like it.

 

[maxd]

I don't see how posting that is any better than anything Playford posted ...

I repeat: Playford was the one on probation. Baited or not he either knows better or doesn't give a damn. Either way it becomes my problem and I'm left wth picking his shit out of the fan again.

 

[Steviedoo]

If this is indicative of the "new" attitude Playford I think Bryan's last communications with you may have failed to produce the desired result. As far as I can tell you are just here to piss and moan and make everyone feel like shit. That's certainly what the complaints I'm receiving are saying. Either way, not what is expected of a Casinomeister forum member, especially one who had promised to steer clear of the political threads after the last time you were on "vacation".

So, I'm disabling your account. If you've got a beef with that you know how to contact Bryan and appeal yet again for forgiveness.

Playford was called a racist. That’s a pretty strong word.

don’t agree with his opinions but I don’t want him banned cuz he got offended and responded the way he did.

there are not that many members that we would come to defend and ask for them to be un banned.
this should tell you something.

 

[colinsunderland]

I repeat: Playford was the one on probation. Baited or not he either knows better or doesn't give a damn. Either way it becomes my problem and I'm left wth picking his shit out of the fan again.

and I didn't say anything about the ban, I'm pointing out someone else caused it, yet they are still allowed to post. I would have thought calling other members racists was against the rules.

 

[Steviedoo]

Was it in this thread someone implied Playford was a racist? If so then I can understand angry posts. Presumably that person has been suspended/banned too?

wasn’t implied.
he was called a racist.

 

[pinnit2014]

Ben's views are probably the polar opposite of mine but i wouldn't boot him into the category of being a troll - as Ternur has said, it's the less in your face trollish behaviours, that are worse (and there's a few of them)

My granddad taught me the beer test for assessing folk (which @ternur may approve of) - would u crack open one with them: probably in his case yeah, though he might call me a wet liberal after beer 6, but that's cool, I'm sure i'd just insult him back

 

[ternur]

beer @ternur approve of

Yes.

 

[paul7388]

I know Ben has very strong views at times and why some people would not like it but really do not get why people keep reporting things. People can surely not be that easily offended.

But just thought I would mention one thing. If indeed he was called a racist and provoked then what happened to what Bryan said. Sure he mentioned anyone provoking him would also be dealt with.

 

[mack341]

Sometimes this is the busiest thread on the forum, to allow someone to return only on the basis they refrain from posting here, or in any other political threads, seems a little OTT regarding a desire for members to self censor.

Not a condition an adult should have to accept really, and now it seems to me a few people have demanded censorship from the mods [possibly implying otherwise they'll leave?] putting the forum management in a tight spot.

Playford's views are traditional conservative, which is about half the uk and half the USA. So if this ban stands then in reality they can join only so long as they don't post anything that upsets/irritates these members, that's the future we're heading to with unappointed forum censors looking for things to report.

It does get heated in this thread, [esp recently] there is a lot of flaming at times. For someone to be banned because they've reacted a bit to provocation is surely wrong.

What is complicated about putting a member on to your ignore list if you don't like their views or way they post, I've had to do it and overall it works, saves a lot of hostile infighting.

 

[Borgie]

I know Ben has very strong views at times and why some people would not like it but really do not get why people keep reporting things. People can surely not be that easily offended.

But just thought I would mention one thing. If indeed he was called a racist and provoked then what happened to what Bryan said. Sure he mentioned anyone provoking him would also be dealt with.
[/QUOTE]

I really can't be bothered to go back over all the posts but provoking went both ways. Playford provoked too.

There was a post against another member that was pretty horrific that was amended later on and toned down.

You can't hold these 2 individuals up as equal though. One had been banned repeatedly for inappropriate behaviour and was specifically told dont post in political threads . The other party is 99 percent respectful and polite and very pleasant. So if and I say if... the remark was out of order it was very much a one off.

Playford having been given a million chances so the other party still has 999999 to go !!

 

[TheAddict]

Was it in this thread someone implied Playford was a racist? If so then I can understand angry posts. Presumably that person has been suspended/banned too?

Yeah, not just this thread iirc.
I've been called racist in this thread too, by a member of the same clique (literally the perfect word Geordiecolin, lol).
I don't go running to the report button everytime someone attempts to hurt my feelings because they don't agree with me though, imagine being that pathetic.

 

[Kroffe]

Checking in to dop off a Nature documentary..

 

[Kroffe]

Yeah, not just this thread iirc.
I've been called racist in this thread too, by a member of the same clique (literally the perfect word Geordiecolin, lol).
I don't go running to the report button everytime someone attempts to hurt my feelings because they don't agree with me though, imagine being that pathetic.

Well, going by your post, you seem to think that chasing after and then murdering a black kid that you think may have done something wrong is just self defense, and the media is wrong to portray them as white supremacists.

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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

[Steviedoo]

I know Ben has very strong views at times and why some people would not like it but really do not get why people keep reporting things. People can surely not be that easily offended.

But just thought I would mention one thing. If indeed he was called a racist and provoked then what happened to what Bryan said. Sure he mentioned anyone provoking him would also be dealt with.

I don’t think he was purposely being provoked.

 

[TheAddict]

Well, going by your post, you seem to think that chasing after and then murdering a black kid that you think may have done something wrong is just self defense, and the media is wrong to portray them as white supremacists.

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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

it wasnt that post Kroffe of which i was refferring to, so don't assume i was reffering to you, lol , I said that i was called a racist. I was. its about i billion pages back. But nice to know you think im racist too, along with anyone else in the statues thread you called racist for not agreeing with you.
I assumed at the time they werent white supremacists, and from the info ive read ive not seen anything to suggest they were. I remember, you pointed out something in response. to which i noted with a powerful 'like'

I thinkyou need to look at all the video evidence regarding that black kid who was shot by those 2 white guys.. the multiple videos of it i mean, not just the one WHERE HE RUNS AROUND THEIR VAN and attacks one of them, punches him, attempts to take his gun. I don't know the laws in that area but what is he supposed to do, ldt someone att6scking him have his gun?
Ok whatever Kroffe, as said i wasnt reffering to you when i said i was called racist. but yeah, you made it quite clear that anyone who doesnt agree with you in the statuex thread is racist as well. Nice one for finally showing your true colours.


I should also add, I didn't read any posts after the one you posted in response to me, I simply couldn't be assed. Gave uowith this thread long ago, for the exact reasons GeordiColin described. But thst day, i caved, lol.