North Korea and US politics

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I think the problem is bigger than one person, people didn't nominate trump [a political outsider with a fair bit of baggage] over the other republican candidates because they were happy and content with the republican establishment, they wanted change and not for things to carry on as usual, ditto in a way with bernie attracting a lot of support/votes against hillary, there's a lack of trust in the 'trusted' candidates the two parties preferred.

Now I think you're right the democrats will unite on the basis of 'we must get rid of trump', but the exposure on prime time tv of the far left's policy ideas and intentions will surely galvanise the republican vote and possibly result in some undecided middle of the road voters swinging to trump?

If trump hadn't made those tax cuts and introduced the trade tariffs and left those two areas unchanged that wouldn't fix the economy either, If things had been going so well under bush and obama the public would've never voted for trump in the first place.

Cheaper consumer goods made in china is not a panacea for all economic ills. [Are the chinese workers entitled to a pension, holiday and fair worker rights etc...?] It does help the 1% increase their bank balance by millions/billions though.

It's also in a way anti climate protection, as cheap replaceable goods tend to just get trashed, an item of clothing only worn a few times etc..,so the current setup is contributing to the unsustainable, throwaway consumer lifestyle. Plus the shipping fuel/pollution to transport goods from china to the US and all over the world...[and the shipping of the raw materials to china prior to production] these must be facts relevant to pollution output?

Not quite right. Mr T started cultivating his populist agenda long before he entered the race, so it was not a total surprise that he got nominated. The democrats just misjudged the situation.

He tried to run as an independent and a democrat and never got past the primaries because of his populist tendencies.

EDIT: Post corrected.
 
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Not quite right. Mr T started cultivating his populist agenda long before he entered the race, so it was all a total surprise that he got nominated. The democrats just misjudged the situation.

He tried to run as an independent and a democrat and never got past the primaries because of his populist tendencies.

Was it a total surprise to the public though? I accept the republican establishment and donors were surprised and got caught off guard, they thought trump would be beaten by their preferred candidate i.e jeb or rubio etc...which shows how out of touch the political elites are.
 
Trump didn't create the popularism, its been brewing for years, he just seized upon it. This is what you don't get. Now the radical democrats have taken it to extreme levels. He's going to seize on it again.

CNN, MSNBC all the left MSM, they all play the race card, day in and day out. You even saw AOC play the race card against Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi is hardly a racist.
 
Was it a total surprise to the public though? I accept the republican establishment and donors were surprised and got caught off guard, they thought trump would be beaten by their preferred candidate i.e jeb or rubio etc...which shows how out of touch the political elites are.
Sorry, typo in my post. I meant it was no surprise.
 
and never got past the primaries because of his populist tendencies

do you mean 'the right wing' part of populism, I'm just googling that phrase and reading a bbc article whichs says " In political science, populism is the idea that society is separated into two groups at odds with one another - "the pure people" and "the corrupt elite", according to Cas Mudde, author of Populism: A Very Short Introduction. " surely that would fit into some left democrat outlooks?

"The word "is generally misused, especially in a European context," according to Benjamin Moffitt, author of The Global Rise of Populism.
The true populist leader claims to represent the unified "will of the people". He stands in opposition to an enemy, often embodied by the current system - aiming to "drain the swamp" or tackle the "liberal elite".
It generally attaches itself to the right in a European context… but that's not an iron rule," Dr Moffitt said.

...Experts point to both societal changes like multiculturalism and globalism, and more concrete crises as behind the rise of populist parties in Europe.
Martin Bull, Director of the European Consortium of Political Research (ECPR), says the emergence of populist parties in Europe could be seen in the early 2000s - but they remained small for several years.
The swell in support seemed to happen "from 2008 - and particularly in 2011, when the banking crisis turned into a sovereign debt crisis", he said.
It was a rare occasion when an elite class - the wealthy bankers - could be identified as more or less directly responsible for a crisis which affected the majority of society.


So why are the bold above such a sacred cow for the elites that cannot be questioned, why are they so essential? Whereas Japan which has kept a largely uniform and therefore cohesive society seems to not to do too badly in all the measurements of standards of living ?
 
Trump didn't create the popularism, its been brewing for years, he just seized upon it. This is what you don't get. Now the radical democrats have taken it to extreme levels. He's going to seize on it again.

CNN, MSNBC all the left MSM, they all play the race card, day in and day out. You even saw AOC play the race card against Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi is hardly a racist.

With help from the Russians?

And didn’t trump tell AOC and co to go back where they came from. Who is racist?
 
do you mean 'the right wing' part of populism, I'm just googling that phrase and reading a bbc article whichs says " In political science, populism is the idea that society is separated into two groups at odds with one another - "the pure people" and "the corrupt elite", according to Cas Mudde, author of Populism: A Very Short Introduction. " surely that would fit into some left democrat outlooks?

"The word "is generally misused, especially in a European context," according to Benjamin Moffitt, author of The Global Rise of Populism.
The true populist leader claims to represent the unified "will of the people". He stands in opposition to an enemy, often embodied by the current system - aiming to "drain the swamp" or tackle the "liberal elite".
It generally attaches itself to the right in a European context… but that's not an iron rule," Dr Moffitt said.

...Experts point to both societal changes like multiculturalism and globalism, and more concrete crises as behind the rise of populist parties in Europe.
Martin Bull, Director of the European Consortium of Political Research (ECPR), says the emergence of populist parties in Europe could be seen in the early 2000s - but they remained small for several years.
The swell in support seemed to happen "from 2008 - and particularly in 2011, when the banking crisis turned into a sovereign debt crisis", he said.
It was a rare occasion when an elite class - the wealthy bankers - could be identified as more or less directly responsible for a crisis which affected the majority of society.


So why are the bold above such a sacred cow for the elites that cannot be questioned, why are they so essential? Whereas Japan which has kept a largely uniform and therefore cohesive society seems to not to do too badly in all the measurements of standards of living ?

Fact is the migration patterns from the last 3 or so decades have had quite an impact on everybody. These migration waves seem to happen like once in a century, well, at least for the last few centuries. You need to go back to the turn of the 20th century to see similar numbers moving around the planet. (google the anti-Irish sentiment in the US at the beginning of the 20th century as one example)

They all have one thing in common. People start migrating due to famine/no economic outlook or war. And every time you have then a rise in populist or nationalist sentiment that rarely ends well because you have people/politicians like Mr T or Wilders from the Netherlands who will fan the flames to the extreme.

IMO, the main reason for mass migrations are the "developed" countries themselves. For centuries, all those countries from where we have now the largest migration waves, have been kept low on purpose or even plundered by the so-called "developed" nations. The UK is a very good example of that. Add to that the useless wars started by e.g. the US and you have millions of additional people displaced/fleeing/migrating.

Now, most won't simply go to maybe a neighbouring country where the situation isn't much better. Instead, they will head to places where they see a better future. People are usually not willing to migrate if they have a comfortable life in their home country but many are left with little choice. When you see your kids dying, you develop a lot of strength and motivation.

The "multiculturalism and globalism" is the exact sentiment populists are pushing as in "they are taking the jobs away", "are getting everything for free", "changing our society for the worse" etc. The migration waves will not stop unless the "developed" nations change their course to allow all other countries to ascend to some level of prosperity but that won't happen in our life time.
 
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Trump didn't create the popularism, its been brewing for years, he just seized upon it. This is what you don't get. Now the radical democrats have taken it to extreme levels. He's going to seize on it again.

CNN, MSNBC all the left MSM, they all play the race card, day in and day out. You even saw AOC play the race card against Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi is hardly a racist.

Always the fault of the "radical democrats" and "left MSM", eh? Always finding an excuse for your emperor? :rolleyes:

Faux News, Breitbart et al not playing the race card, day in, day out? Geez, are you that blinded? :rolleyes:
 
Fact is the migration patterns from the last 3 or so decades have had quite an impact on everybody. These migration waves seem to happen like once in a century, well, at least for the last few centuries. You need to go back to the turn of the 20th century to see similar numbers moving around the planet. (google the anti-Irish sentiment in the US at the beginning of the 20th century as one example)

They all have one thing in common. People start migrating due to famine/no economic outlook or war. And every time you have then a rise in populist or nationalist sentiment that rarely ends well because you have people/politicians like Mr T or Wilders from the Netherlands who will fan the flames to the extreme.

IMO, the main reason for mass migrations are the "developed" countries themselves. For centuries, all those countries from where we have now the largest migration waves, have been kept low on purpose or even plundered by the so-called "developed" nations. The UK is a very good example of that. Add to that the useless wars started by e.g. the US and you have millions of additional people displaced/fleeing/migrating.

Now, most won't simply go to maybe a neighbouring country where the situation isn't much better. Instead, they will head to places where they see a better future. People are usually not willing to migrate if they have a comfortable life in their home country but many are left with little choice. When you see your kids dying, you develop a lot of strength and motivation.

The "multiculturalism and globalism" is the exact sentiment populists are pushing as in "they are taking the jobs away", "are getting everything for free", "changing our society for the worse" etc. The migration waves will not stop unless the "developed" nations change their course to allow all other countries to ascend to some level of prosperity but that won't happen in our life time.

I can't say you're wrong on the reasons why people want to leave their 3rd/2nd world country and that the solution is fair trade and help with development.
While understanding the migration process from the migrants point of view, why he/she doesn't want to remain in their country of birth etc.. that's still only half the story and when I read articles like this on the bbc it's plain to me there are other factors/agendas at play :

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"EU should 'undermine national homogeneity' says UN migration chief"

"The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states, the UN's special representative for migration has said.
Peter Sutherland told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural."


So how comes this doesn't apply to Japan? And how will the developing 3rd world nations [where the most of the migrants will come from] improve their prosperity if their young people and workers up and leave? Also the unemployment rates in many of the EU countries, especially amongst young people, are already very high.

Edit:btw I think wilders is different to trump. That's my impression, one's a showman and the other, well I don't know what he is...a bit strange?
 
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I can't say you're wrong on the reasons why people want to leave their 3rd/2nd world country and that the solution is fair trade and help with development.
While understanding the migration process from the migrants point of view, why he/she doesn't want to remain in their country of birth etc.. that's still only half the story and when I read articles like this on the bbc it's plain to me there are other factors/agendas at play :

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"EU should 'undermine national homogeneity' says UN migration chief"

"The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states, the UN's special representative for migration has said.
Peter Sutherland told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural."


So how comes this doesn't apply to Japan? And how will the developing 3rd world nations [where the most of the migrants will come from] improve their prosperity if their young people and workers up and leave? Also the unemployment rates in many of the EU countries, especially amongst young people, are already very high.

Japan has been in a deflation period for some decades now. One of the main factors is their population mix. Their demographic has been on the decline for some time now and there is no way they can turn it around within a generation unless every woman starts having at least 3 kids or something like that.

Second, Japan has a geographic location that makes it difficult to reach.

Third, Japan has been at war with most of its immediate neighbours, hence, there is a certain reluctance to emigrate to Japan.

They realized their predicament in the last few years and have already loosened immigration laws.

The problem most developed nations are facing is a declining demographic, while all social systems are built on a pyramid scheme. Many paying in, less are taking out. I don't know the exact numbers and to be honest, I am too lazy to check now, but where some decades ago it was like more than 5 working people were supporting one retired person, that number is now below 3:1. The numbers could be slightly wrong but you get the gist. The same goes for health and unemployment insurance etc.

There are two ways to halt the decline. Get people to have way more kids than today or take immigrants.

The unemployment rates (I assume you refer to countries like Spain, Italy or Greece) were not much different 20 or 30 years ago. Check the records.
 
The unemployment rates (I assume you refer to countries like Spain, Italy or Greece) were not much different 20 or 30 years ago. Check the records.

Well the bits I read did say there was a spike after the 2008 crash and also 2011 financial problems, but even taking into account that ratio you mention, high unemployment still undermines the need for new migrant arrivals to bolster the workforce, certainly at the lower skill levels.

Plus govts have also wasted the national insurance tax money over the years and relied on current employees income tax to pay for pensions.

If the birth rates have fallen too low maybe we need to try to fix the reasons for this? [They were okay before]

edit: I bet japan will chug along fine without 3rd/2nd world mass immigration, and still have one of the highest standards of living and prosperity, health, low crime etc..they're a very cohesive, resourceful and intelligent people.
 
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just seen the japanese recent immigration changes [bbc]

"Under the new system, more than 300,000 foreigners could be allowed to work in sectors facing a labour crunch.

The law creates two new visa categories. Workers in the first category will be allowed in for five years if they have a certain level of skill and some proficiency in Japanese."

S
o that is temporary and unlikely to be from the third world, more likely vietnam/poor asian countries nearby ?

"Workers with a higher level of skills would qualify for the second visa category and would eventually be allowed to apply for residency."

These changes seem to me very controlled and sensible/reasonable compared to the looser immigration policies countries like the uk, france and the usa have implemented over the years.
 
Well the bits I read did say there was a spike after the 2008 crash and also 2011 financial problems, but even taking into account that ratio you mention, high unemployment still undermines the need for new migrant arrivals to bolster the workforce, certainly at the lower skill levels.

Plus govts have also wasted the national insurance tax money over the years and relied on current employees income tax to pay for pensions.

If the birth rates have fallen too low maybe we need to try to fix the reasons for this? [They were okay before]

edit: I bet japan will chug along fine without 3rd/2nd world mass immigration, and still have one of the highest standards of living and prosperity, health, low crime etc..they're a very cohesive, resourceful and intelligent people.

Of course, in an ideal world, we would take care of our problems. High unemployment rates do not mean that you might lack in workers for specific jobs. How many UK citizens are still harvesting vegetables today? Just one example. Then go and tell a group of lingering unemployed youth in your city centre that they should head out to do those jobs. They will laugh into your face if you are lucky, or beat you up if they feel like. :laugh:

Plus immigrants, generate taxes and increase the GDP if all is done in a normal way.

The problem I see is that we have large waves instead of normal trickling immigration, and naturally quite a few countries will feel overwhelmed.

From Wikipedia, regarding Japan.

Over 30K suicides! Every year, 12 years in a row. Sounds like a very happy population?


111369

Fact is that Japan benefits from its geolocation when it comes to immigration. It makes if of course a lot easier to control.

EDIT: I see you did read up on the changes. :)
 
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These changes seem to me very controlled and sensible/reasonable compared to the looser immigration policies countries like the uk, france and the usa have implemented over the years.

Japan never signed up for the UN Charta on asylum which was proposed by the US, UK and a few other countries. It all happened in the wake of WWII with the plan to allow refugees to seek a safe haven from oppression/war etc.

Don't know if Japan joined later but IIRC they did not.
 
Of course, in an ideal world, we would take care of our problems. High unemployment rates do not mean that you might lack in workers for specific jobs. How many UK citizens are still harvesting vegetables today? Just one example. Then go and tell a group of lingering unemployed youth in your city centre that they should head out to do those jobs. They will laugh into your face if you are lucky, or beat you up if they feel like. :laugh:

Plus immigrants, generate taxes and increase the GDP if all is done in a normal way.

The problem I see is that we have large waves instead of normal trickling immigration, and naturally quite a few countries will feel overwhelmed.

From Wikipedia, regarding Japan.

Over 30K suicides! Every year, 12 years in a row. Sounds like a very happy population?


View attachment 111369

Fact is that Japan benefits from its geolocation when it comes to immigration. It makes if of course a lot easier to control.

EDIT: I see you did read up on the changes. :)

I think the high suicide rate in japan relates to their traditional culture and its emphasis on honour, when you combine that with the modern world of job redundancies/ insecurity, stress and the culture of comparison to others regarding your own achievements/success etc...it's a dangerous mix

"In Japanese culture, suicide, in some circumstances, has long been viewed as an honorable way to die. Consider the kamikaze pilots during World War II, whose greatest honor was to dive-bomb a plane into an Allied warship and die in the process. The practice of military suicide has been going on since at least the time of the Samurai warlords and is one factor in Japan’s high suicide rate.

Japanese men are twice as likely to commit suicide as their female counterparts, particularly after a divorce. Of special concern is suicide among men who have recently lost their jobs and are no longer able to provide for their families. They may feel that they have dishonored themselves and their families and that suicide is the honorable way out of the situation. With a high cultural tolerance for suicide, many older adults end their lives after they retire. Aokigahara Forest, at the base of Japan’s Mount Fuji, is a hotspot for suicides, as hundreds of people go there each year to end their lives. Police regularly patrol the area for suicide victims and survivors."


-------

I read a bit about the japanese religious views once, shinto, and they believe in spirits ..." "Shinto gods" are called kami. They are sacred spirits which take the form of things and concepts important to life, such as wind, rain, mountains, trees, rivers and fertility. "
So that is very different to our concept of religion. It makes life more interesting to have these differences rather than a mono, mcdonalds and pizza style consumer culture everywhere.
 
I think the high suicide rate in japan relates to their traditional culture and its emphasis on honour, when you combine that with the modern world of job redundancies/ insecurity, stress and the culture of comparison to others regarding your own achievements/success etc...it's a dangerous mix

"In Japanese culture, suicide, in some circumstances, has long been viewed as an honorable way to die. Consider the kamikaze pilots during World War II, whose greatest honor was to dive-bomb a plane into an Allied warship and die in the process. The practice of military suicide has been going on since at least the time of the Samurai warlords and is one factor in Japan’s high suicide rate.

Japanese men are twice as likely to commit suicide as their female counterparts, particularly after a divorce. Of special concern is suicide among men who have recently lost their jobs and are no longer able to provide for their families. They may feel that they have dishonored themselves and their families and that suicide is the honorable way out of the situation. With a high cultural tolerance for suicide, many older adults end their lives after they retire. Aokigahara Forest, at the base of Japan’s Mount Fuji, is a hotspot for suicides, as hundreds of people go there each year to end their lives. Police regularly patrol the area for suicide victims and survivors."


-------

I read a bit about the japanese religious views once, shinto, and they believe in spirits ..." "Shinto gods" are called kami. They are sacred spirits which take the form of things and concepts important to life, such as wind, rain, mountains, trees, rivers and fertility. "
So that is very different to our concept of religion. It makes life more interesting to have these differences rather than a mono, mcdonalds and pizza style consumer culture everywhere.

You forgot to highlight this in your post:

Of special concern is suicide among men who have recently lost their jobs and are no longer able to provide for their families.

So the increased suicide rate is directly connected to the economic situation. The GDP growth for Japan has trickled along for decades now and has been kept in the positive mainly due to increased government spending. Their government debt in % of GDP stands currently at over 230% (UK has about 85% per the 2019 records; Japan had that rate in the mid-90s).

While honour plays a role, the economic situation amplified that and also had a rather large impact on their population growth. They will pay a hefty price in the next decades before things will get better.

I have been to Japan a few times and to be honest it was tough to see/find happy people.
 
You forgot to highlight this in your post:

Of special concern is suicide among men who have recently lost their jobs and are no longer able to provide for their families.

So the increased suicide rate is directly connected to the economic situation. The GDP growth for Japan has trickled along for decades now and has been kept in the positive mainly due to increased government spending. Their government debt in % of GDP stands currently at over 230% (UK has about 85% per the 2019 records; Japan had that rate in the mid-90s).

While honour plays a role, the economic situation amplified that and also had a rather large impact on their population growth. They will pay a hefty price in the next decades before things will get better.

I have been to Japan a few times and to be honest it was tough to see/find happy people.

I didn't want to bold everything but did make reference to the modern world of job insecurity and redundancies, btw tokyo sonata is a good film regarding this [
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I think the lack of happiness is all over the world, probably worse in a way in the ultra modern developed nations and for the people living in megacities [can't remember the other name for these, maybe it was 'megalopolis'?]

Well I never knew their debt to gdp was that high but I did wonder how they sustain such a large population on a smallish island(s), maybe the uk, despite the brexit predictions of doom and gloom, is not doing too bad after all and not in as precarious position as many other countries, if only now we could sort out our rampant urban crime/social problems we'd be getting back to the good old days.
 
I didn't want to bold everything but did make reference to the modern world of job insecurity and redundancies, btw tokyo sonata is a good film regarding this [
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I think the lack of happiness is all over the world, probably worse in a way in the ultra modern developed nations and for the people living in megacities [can't remember the other name for these, maybe it was 'megalopolis'?]

Well I never knew their debt to gdp was that high but I did wonder how they sustain such a large population on a smallish island(s), maybe the uk, despite the brexit predictions of doom and gloom, is not doing too bad after all and not in as precarious position as many other countries, if only now we could sort out our rampant urban crime/social problems we'd be getting back to the good old days.

Japan had its golden era in the 60s, 70s and early 80s before things started turning south. And the main thing what was done to counter that was to increase the government debt and devalue the currency. Not really a good recipe for long-term success.

Well, happiness .....not sure what to say. But I grew up in a rural village with horse wagons, no running water, black and white TV with 1 program and toilet outside and I can honestly say I wouldn't change my childhood years for anything in this world.

The UK will have of course a chance to get it right, the odds are just massively against you or it will take at least much longer as most will tell you. There will be little sympathy for your situation even from your closest friends and allies. Metaphorically speaking, you are the lamb that somehow got lost from the herd and you have a pack of wolves closing in.
 
Regarding the japan new rules for immigrant workers again, the temporary type visa is not a bad idea, after 5 years of working and hopefully saving a bit, the worker returns to his native country of birth and can stimulate development there using his savings and new knowhow, so the native country also receives benefit from exporting their labour force, which they've spent money on educating etc..
 
Japan had its golden era in the 60s, 70s and early 80s before things started turning south. And the main thing what was done to counter that was to increase the government debt and devalue the currency. Not really a good recipe for long-term success.

Well, happiness .....not sure what to say. But I grew up in a rural village with horse wagons, no running water, black and white TV with 1 program and toilet outside and I can honestly say I wouldn't change my childhood years for anything in this world.

The UK will have of course a chance to get it right, the odds are just massively against you or it will take at least much longer as most will tell you. There will be little sympathy for your situation even from your closest friends and allies. Metaphorically speaking, you are the lamb that somehow got lost from the herd and you have a pack of wolves closing in.

yeah I did remember reading about japan's stalled economy, where they've had zero growth or zero interest rates for quite a while now, but just watching bits on youtube and their country seems very well ordered and cohesive, I doubt they have the drug and crime problems we have.

Your childhood does sound idyllic; somethings have been lost or diminished in the modern world, maybe the community spirit and belonging/respect for others, too much competitive stress etc..I would quite like to read the autobiography of Harry_Bkk, you've seen and experienced a lot of different things in this world...'from horse wagons to robots' could be the title! :)

We may at some point have to go back to the EU with a begging bowl, but I think with our top universities and background in science and innovation we'll probably soldier on, doing not too bad, we have an important place in the world...commercial law, finance, medicine, patents, copyright etc.. away from the EU we could hopefully do better with inward government investment/aid [which they oppose]
 
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This vid of trump with epstein doesn't look good:



Trump looks like a louche, lounge lizard loser with his bushy eyebrows, the women don't look young enough for Mr epstein's interest though, so not sure it's that incriminating but I don't like seeing trump hovering round him, subservient like that. :puke:
 
If the left wants to win the election they need to say "middle class" 1100 times and not this other word.

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If the left wants to win the election they need to say "middle class" 1100 times and not this other word.

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That is probably true, I never thought the usa would fully go down this route that they seem to be going, identity politics warfare on steroids via social media [both parties too]

...it's a demographic ticking time bomb for the republicans...if the middle class has or is being eroded that's also going to affect politics...they'll be looking towards the republicans to do something but once trump's gone the RINOS will take back full control.
 
That is probably true, I never thought the usa would fully go down this route that they seem to be going, identity politics warfare on steroids via social media [both parties too]

...it's a demographic ticking time bomb for the republicans...if the middle class has or is being eroded that's also going to affect politics...they'll be looking towards the republicans to do something but once trump's gone the RINOS will take back full control.

Absolutely a ticking time bomb, in 2043 White people become a minority.
 
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