North Korea?

Borgie

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Sorry in what way is this not a personal dig?

I've had the 'BS' contempt thrown at me 4 times this afternoon in this one thread, but no I'm the one being personal and making unjustified attacks.

Enough's enough, and other than this thread I was rather enjoying the forum experience today, shame I'm now forced to take a 7 day break, or maybe longer if Bryan or the mods decide I've been the trouble maker or overstepped the line.
Who is forcing you to take a 7 day break?
 

ternur

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Sorry in what way is this not a personal dig?

I've had the 'BS' contempt thrown at me 4 times this afternoon in this one thread, but no I'm the one being personal and making unjustified attacks.

Enough's enough, and other than this thread I was rather enjoying the forum experience today, shame I'm now forced to take a 7 day break, or maybe longer if Bryan or the mods decide I've been the trouble maker or overstepped the line.
Mack, you should take up drinking. It has some positive effects, like:

- You'll notice that the 5G tower they are building right next to your house is actually a nice resting place for birds. That singing will lift your spirits right up. :)
- Implanted microchips can actually be useful. They could measure your blood's alcohol level and automatically send an order in when you need a refill. :thumbsup:
- Bill will still be the antichrist, but you won't care anymore.

The list by far not complete.

And remember, even in the darkest hour, there's always someone watching over you. Like a guardian angel ;)



JK Mack, no offense meant. :p

If you don't like drinking, I'll have one for you. Just let me know. The sooner the better. Getting thirsty over here.
:drink:
 

sufferinsilence

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I also hoped HCQ would be a suitable drug to treat very ill patients because it showed some decent results very early on and is very cheap to produce.

Sadly it isn't to be, and there's more research going on for drugs like Remdesivir, Favipiravir and Tocilizumab and an antibody called 47D11.
 

Harry_BKK

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I also hoped HCQ would be a suitable drug to treat very ill patients because it showed some decent results very early on and is very cheap to produce.

Sadly it isn't to be, and there's more research going on for drugs like Remdesivir, Favipiravir and Tocilizumab and an antibody called 47D11.
I do think HCQ/CG might have some impact if it is given before the virus load is getting high plus only to otherwise "healthy people" that have no underlying conditions. It is, after all, an anti-viral that typically acts as an inhibitor.

However, I also think that once the virus has spread then it is too "weak" against this specific virus and it does generally more harm than good.

Many studies have one problem because the absolute majority of people get over it without any drugs/special treatment/hospitalization. So if they got some HCQ/CQ and recovered just like after a normal flu then it is obviously flawed to attribute that to the intake of HCQ/CQ.

E.g. the old saying with the regular flu: "It will pass in 7 days with medication and in a week without."

Where HCQ/CQ have shown no/very little/adverse little impact is with the people who have been so sick that they needed to be hospitalized. And that is actually where you need it most. Data from 96,000 people is not lying, those are factual observations from across the world.

I would be surprised to see a vaccine, TBH. Decades of research has not managed to get something against any coronavirus and now suddenly they'll get it done in a year? :confused: As for treatment drugs, I don't see much chance either for a quick fix. I just imagine that the 1000s of doctors around the world have probably tried 100s of different drugs and combinations of drugs, yet none turned out to be the ONE.

Prophylactic drugs such as Malarone/Lariam against malaria need time too but I see that as the "easier" option because it has to deal only with a small virus load that tries to "enter" our bodies.
 

cncas2123

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I do think HCQ/CG might have some impact if it is given before the virus load is getting high plus only to otherwise "healthy people" that have no underlying conditions. It is, after all, an anti-viral that typically acts as an inhibitor.

However, I also think that once the virus has spread then it is too "weak" against this specific virus and it does generally more harm than good.

Many studies have one problem because the absolute majority of people get over it without any drugs/special treatment/hospitalization. So if they got some HCQ/CQ and recovered just like after a normal flu then it is obviously flawed to attribute that to the intake of HCQ/CQ.

E.g. the old saying with the regular flu: "It will pass in 7 days with medication and in a week without."

Where HCQ/CQ have shown no/very little/adverse little impact is with the people who have been so sick that they needed to be hospitalized. And that is actually where you need it most. Data from 96,000 people is not lying, those are factual observations from across the world.

I would be surprised to see a vaccine, TBH. Decades of research has not managed to get something against any coronavirus and now suddenly they'll get it done in a year? :confused: As for treatment drugs, I don't see much chance either for a quick fix. I just imagine that the 1000s of doctors around the world have probably tried 100s of different drugs and combinations of drugs, yet none turned out to be the ONE.

Prophylactic drugs such as Malarone/Lariam against malaria need time too but I see that as the "easier" option because it has to deal only with a small virus load that tries to "enter" our bodies.
The only part I would disagree with is the vaccine part - yes there's been research going on for the last number of years to try and find a vaccine for this family, but now its the single focus and dozens of countries, thousands of scientists and research teams have the goal of finding a working vaccine.
It's also telling that with all the drugs in the world we can't get near a cure and the focus is mostly on a vaccine.
My thoughts are that a vaccine will be ready for final stage testing by the end of the summer and could possibly be ready for rolling out late this year but an a small scale with large scale vaccination early next year, not because of the lack of vaccines but because there will still be a large degree of uncertainty around the full effectiveness and any side effects that arent obvious at the testing stage.
 

Harry_BKK

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The only part I would disagree with is the vaccine part - yes there's been research going on for the last number of years to try and find a vaccine for this family, but now its the single focus and dozens of countries, thousands of scientists and research teams have the goal of finding a working vaccine.
It's also telling that with all the drugs in the world we can't get near a cure and the focus is mostly on a vaccine.
My thoughts are that a vaccine will be ready for final stage testing by the end of the summer and could possibly be ready for rolling out late this year but an a small scale with large scale vaccination early next year, not because of the lack of vaccines but because there will still be a large degree of uncertainty around the full effectiveness and any side effects that arent obvious at the testing stage.
I am not that optimistic, TBH. A process which usually takes years/decades is now cramped into a few months. Vaccines need far more certainty that they will not cause more harm than good compared to a new drug because you can't simply "unvaccinate". The drug you can stop taking, same with a prophylactic and the active ingredients will be flushed out of your body over a few days/weeks.

Plus, nobody will know what kind of longterm effects a rushed vaccine will have, first how long it will provide immunisation and second what long term side effects can happen.

And should one or two of the candidates turn out to provide immunity, what will be the level? 30%, 50%, what will be acceptable? I said this in an earlier post. Rushing a vaccine won't get you anything even close to the usual 90-100% range unless you have all stars, planets and all other space objects align and one of the candidates is indeed that stroke of luck.

The next issue I see is that most of the "promising" candidates are based on new types of vaccines, e.g. using mRNA. To date, none of the other vaccines these companies tried to develop for other diseases made it past phase 2 in the trials. And suddenly, they will get one done, safe and sound, within months?

And then I see the greed, .e.g the Moderna case which the US is putting a lot of hope in. They published somewhat positive results for just 8 out of 40 odd people. The shares went through the roof and the two main founders pocketed some $20 million. So what is with the other 32 people they tried it on. Why not show all data? Looks all rather suspicious. They received a huge grant from the US government but have not produced a single successful vaccine in all the years the company existed. And they worked on SARS, MERS, ZIKA etc. And now they will suddenly be successful within a few months?

The other problem is also Sars-CoV-2 itself. Scientists know very little about the virus, a few months is by far not sufficient to understand a novel coronavirus, e.g. it seems that it attacks not just the lungs but multiple organs.

My chemistry professor in college was one of those old, wise blokes. He said once to the class something along the lines: "You can rush virtually anything in life, but not science." I hope he was wrong and my doubts are unfounded and we will have some kind of solution soon, whatever that may be, vaccine, treatment drugs or prophylactic. Humanity, as it is today, is not made to stay locked down for long periods, the few protests we have seen so far would grow into revolts at some point.

It is though also a testament to how badly we humans have evolved. We are such a modern society, yet a few weeks of standstill and the house of cards comes crashing down.
 
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cncas2123

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I know we are in strange times, and I know there is pressure to get a vaccine, but I honestly believe that this will give hope for a vaccine, particularly as they are going to broaden the trial to include children and I don't think anyone would go to this stage unless there was a degree of confidence of the efficacy of the potential vaccine.

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ternur

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So what is this Dio?
Had to look it up. It seems to be some kind of a liniment. It's truly a unicorn they say :drink:


What Is DiO?
DiO
was born out of a desire to bring into the market an all natural liniment that was as effective as its chemical laden counterparts. For years the only options for liniments were messy, smelly and chemically abrasive. Many of us have tried our horse liniments on ourselves only to breakout in hives, smell up the truck or our workplace or get that odd garlic taste in our mouths. DiO alleviates all of that. Combining an extensive epsom salts profile with a proprietary blend of natural minerals we created an odorless and colorless formula that relieves swelling and soreness efficiently and effectively as any of its chemical counterparts. Our product is truly a unicorn in the marketplace!
 

paul7388

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Had to look it up. It seems to be some kind of a liniment. It's truly a unicorn they say :drink:


What Is DiO?
DiO
was born out of a desire to bring into the market an all natural liniment that was as effective as its chemical laden counterparts. For years the only options for liniments were messy, smelly and chemically abrasive. Many of us have tried our horse liniments on ourselves only to breakout in hives, smell up the truck or our workplace or get that odd garlic taste in our mouths. DiO alleviates all of that. Combining an extensive epsom salts profile with a proprietary blend of natural minerals we created an odorless and colorless formula that relieves swelling and soreness efficiently and effectively as any of its chemical counterparts. Our product is truly a unicorn in the marketplace!
Great explanation.

Tho i think the bear was just using Dio as short for Dionysus.

But your answer is better :laugh:
 

paul7388

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I believe the correct way to shorten his name is Dino. He really likes that one.
He used to like getting called dinosaur by someone.Can't remember who it was that called him that tho.

Anyway it's Sunday. A holiday weekend. Life is great.

Even the weather is meant to be nice tomorrow. Might even sit out the garden tomorrow , Open a bottle beer and watch a Babymetal concert.

Well maybe not but who knows stranger things have happened :laugh:
 

ternur

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He used to like getting called dinosaur by someone.Can't remember who it was that called him that tho.

Anyway it's Sunday. A holiday weekend. Life is great.

Even the weather is meant to be nice tomorrow. Might even sit out the garden tomorrow , Open a bottle beer and watch a Babymetal concert.

Well maybe not but who knows stranger things have happened :laugh:
This is how I see and read most of the posts. I just focus on the good things :p

Everything else is just noise.
 

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