North Korea and US politics

[mack341]

I only took the first on your list. Read up and make your mind up whether his claim is true, misleading or simply false.

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Of course, they don't mention that the lowest percentage applied to one month only and that the numbers have significantly risen again. Why should they tell the entire truth?

Take any statistics expert and he/she will tell you that looking at a single month makes no sense whatsoever and presents a skewed result.

And yes, it is the Washington Post but follow the links in the article as that is the evidence for their article with hard facts.

Harry the link at the bottom of the article was behind a paywall, but I take your point that you need to add the various months together, hopefully all these claims can be properly debated at election time but I fear the msm will likely steer things back to russian collusion and other tittle tattle.

The AP Fact checker said this, with my comments in blue:

TRUMP: “African-American, Hispanic-American and Asian-American unemployment have all reached their lowest levels ever recorded.”

THE FACTS: What he’s not saying is that the unemployment rates for all three groups have gone up since reaching record low levels.
[to be fair he was talking about a point in time, and this statistic will always relate to a single moment, and then fluctuate up and down as it's a rate. It will be interesting to see the averaged out figure for his whole first term]

Black unemployment reached a record low, 5.9 percent, in May, but rose to 6.8 percent in January.

Latino unemployment fell to 4.4 percent, its lowest ever, last October, and Asian unemployment fell to a record low of 2.2 percent in May. But Latino and Asian unemployment also have increased, in part because of the government shutdown, which elevated unemployment last month. [yes but the govt shutdown did end, also no figure given so not sure if the increase was substantial or miniscule]

The African-American rate is still nearly double the jobless rate for whites, at 3.5 percent. [There are more long term socio-economic reasons for this, trump would indeed be a miracle worker to achieve parity, it may never happen for reasons beyond his control]

The most dramatic drop in black unemployment came under President Barack Obama, when it fell from a recession high of 16.8 percent in March 2010 to 7.8 percent in January 2017. [yes but this measurement is across 7 years and when something is very high it is going to be easier to obtain improvement and reduction, however it is still a very good reduction at 53% I think, I wonder what the rate was when he entered office, that would've been the more logical place to start]

This is the problem with fact checkers and statistics, they either lack context or can be manipulated to give a desired result, and then influence the person who reads at a glance. They are being used mainly to support governmental and msm narratives and their underlying agendas.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Harry the link at the bottom of the article was behind a paywall, but I take your point that you need to add the various months together, hopefully all these claims can be properly debated at election time but I fear the msm will likely steer things back to russian collusion and other tittle tattle.

The AP Fact checker said this, with my comments in blue:

TRUMP: “African-American, Hispanic-American and Asian-American unemployment have all reached their lowest levels ever recorded.”

THE FACTS: What he’s not saying is that the unemployment rates for all three groups have gone up since reaching record low levels.
[to be fair he was talking about a point in time, and this statistic will always relate to a single moment, and then fluctuate up and down as it's a rate. It will be interesting to see the averaged out figure for his whole first term]

Black unemployment reached a record low, 5.9 percent, in May, but rose to 6.8 percent in January.

Latino unemployment fell to 4.4 percent, its lowest ever, last October, and Asian unemployment fell to a record low of 2.2 percent in May. But Latino and Asian unemployment also have increased, in part because of the government shutdown, which elevated unemployment last month. [yes but the govt shutdown did end, also no figure given so not sure if the increase was substantial or miniscule]

The African-American rate is still nearly double the jobless rate for whites, at 3.5 percent. [There are more long term socio-economic reasons for this, trump would indeed be a miracle worker to achieve parity, it may never happen for reasons beyond his control]

The most dramatic drop in black unemployment came under President Barack Obama, when it fell from a recession high of 16.8 percent in March 2010 to 7.8 percent in January 2017. [yes but this measurement is across 7 years and when something is very high it is going to be easier to obtain improvement and reduction, however it is still a very good reduction at 53% I think, I wonder what the rate was when he entered office, that would've been the more logical place to start]

This is the problem with fact checkers and statistics, they either lack context or can be manipulated to give a desired result, and then influence the person who reads at a glance. They are being used mainly to support governmental and msm narratives and their underlying agendas.

I can see and understand your points.

One of the reasons, why unemployment amog minorities is falling, is the tight labour market, which was already pretty tight in 2016 with around 5% unemployment. Typically, companies will start having problems to fill vacancies when unemployment falls below 6%. Hence, why they start looking at fringe groups - older workers, minorities etc.

Now Mr. T poured a few trillion $ into the already growing economy, hence, the effect was expected. So he's done something but the total opposite what any economist would recommend because in good times you try to reduce the deficit, raise taxes a little, raise interest rates etc as that will give you ammunition when things start tanking again. And it will happen, question is only when.

Its just not something special...he simply borrowed money (as always in is life) and poured it into a growing economy. That is not some "genius" achievement, especially if you look at the small additional growth rate coming from that cash injection.

Fact is the US is a mature market which simply doesn't start booming just like that, the same like it does not tank in an instant (other than due to an unrelated crisis like in 2008). People simply have most things they need and extra cash goes to a good part into savings and is not spent willy-nilly as Mr. T would like it.

What all those statements leave out is what kind of jobs were created: temporary, minimum wage etc. And the renewed rise in unemployment strongly suggests they were only temporary.

Either way, I believe a fact-checking site more than what Mr. T is putting up on his website. Obvisously, I cross-check information with other sources and sites before I make my mind up. However, the soon Mr. T opens is mouth, you know it is going to be a lie, so there is no need to cross-check.

 

[Steviedoo]

This would be funny if it wasn’t so sad...the state of politics in the USA. and not once in that interview did anyone mention trumps tax returns and his Russian connections. The media has a responsibility to the public...this isn’t journalism...it’s PR.


President Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon said Sunday that former Vice President Joe Biden must release his tax returns to prove that he’s not benefiting economically from China.

“We have to see Joe Biden’s tax returns because we have to see if Joe Biden was a financial consultant to [the fund] or an adviser. Biden has got to answer some basic questions: if he’s been compromised by the Chinese Communist Party? What was his involvement during the Obama administration?”

 

[mack341]

I can see and understand your points.

One of the reasons, why unemployment amog minorities is falling, is the tight labour market, which was already pretty tight in 2016 with around 5% unemployment. Typically, companies will start having problems to fill vacancies when unemployment falls below 6%. Hence, why they start looking at fringe groups - older workers, minorities etc.

Now Mr. T poured a few trillion $ into the already growing economy, hence, the effect was expected. So he's done something but the total opposite what any economist would recommend because in good times you try to reduce the deficit, raise taxes a little, raise interest rates etc as that will give you ammunition when things start tanking again. And it will happen, question is only when.

Its just not something special...he simply borrowed money (as always in is life) and poured it into a growing economy. That is not some "genius" achievement, especially if you look at the small additional growth rate coming from that cash injection.

Fact is the US is a mature market which simply doesn't start booming just like that, the same like it does not tank in an instant (other than due to an unrelated crisis like in 2008). People simply have most things they need and extra cash goes to a good part into savings and it not spent willy-nilly as Mr. T would like it.

What all those statements leave out is what kind of jobs were created: temporary, minimum wage etc. And the renewed rise in unemployment strongly suggests they were only temporary.

That is true we have the same issue in the uk where part time jobs, temping and zero hour contracts, as opposed to permanent full time work, probably make up the bulk of job gains, [I wonder if zero hour contracts exist in the US]

I'm guessing a large chunk of that 2 trillion was spent on the military, obviously it's a big employer and that sort of thing can go down well with voters, however I don't buy the idea that as soon as trump came in he had a free hand to do as he wished, there would be considerable influence on where he spent the money, the generals etc.. bearing in mind in govt circles he has very few allies, so I suspect he hoped the pumped in money would create a feel good factor and go on from there.

I think policy wise, including the tariffs, he is not dissimilar to the 1950's and 60's democrats; would you say germany is a better run country today than in the 80's and 90's?...the voters old enough can remember when politics and life was saner, and that's what they are looking for, a return to common sense politics. Trump must be popular across a broad mix of people to beat all the other republicans and then hillary.

 

[Steviedoo]

Why do you think it is anti-American to criticize this "mock deal"?

There were similar agreements with Mexico in the past (bar the continuous threats - building wall & Mexico will pay, close borders, tariffs etc) which led to a temporary decline in the numbers, emphasis on temporary! So this is not some super-special "best" deal ever that Mr. T has achieved. And as it turns out it was already all there without the tariff threats which shaved a few billion of the stock market, scared a lot of folks who depend on the trade with Mexico etc....and all that so Mr. T can brag about his alleged yet so far never seen negotiating prowess?

I said this already a few times. You will not stop desperate people until the conditions, where they are now, will improve.

Mr. T cut the funding for exactly those programs/projects virtually to zero. Hence, he is making it worse on both sides, the US and the affected countries. Nothing new when you look at Mr. T's life so far....making things worse is his signature feature.

The threat of tariffs was never real and I can tell you why. For an entire week, his people and sycophants toured the TV networks and all said the same: "Mr. T is serious". "Mr. T is not joking" etc etc - when people do exactly that, you know they are spouting just hollow threats aka "a dog that barks won't bite".

You might not be anti American but there are some posters on here that are.

Vorcirion, for example, is not pro USA (his words not mine) which makes him anti USA.

Trump is one president out 45. to be anti USA because of him does not really make sense to me.

 

[vorcirion]

You might not be anti American but there are some posters on here that are.

Vorcirion, for example, is not pro USA (his words not mine) which makes him anti USA.

Trump is one president out 45. to be anti USA because of him does not really make sense to me.

And I asked you why I should be pro USA at the moment as an EU citizen. I'll happily be pro USA once your country gets back to it senses. But for now I'm anti USA since you're working against my interests.

 

[vorcirion]

You might not be anti American but there are some posters on here that are.

Vorcirion, for example, is not pro USA (his words not mine) which makes him anti USA.

Trump is one president out 45. to be anti USA because of him does not really make sense to me.

It's a bit like...if Russia gets a new president who actually doesn't invade countries and is not a threat to my country...I'll happily be pro Russia too. I don't really fear of Putin invading my country though it did it to Ukraine...but still!

 

[mack341]

You might not be anti American but there are some posters on here that are.

Vorcirion, for example, is not pro USA (his words not mine) which makes him anti USA.

Trump is one president out 45. to be anti USA because of him does not really make sense to me.

Stevie did you say you grew up in charleston? Had only heard of it in terms of the civil war and the dance, but watched a few vids on youtube and what a lovely historic coastal city.

 

[Steviedoo]

And I asked you why I should be pro USA at the moment as an EU citizen. I'll happily be pro USA once your country gets back to it senses. But for now I'm anti USA since you're working against my interests.

See ... there’s no hiding it or denying. What we’ve known on this board for months now.

Here is why you shouldn’t be anti USA. Because one president is not America.

Because America is made up of good hard working people who just want to live their lives like everyone else on this planet. He is one president out of 45.

 

[Harry_BKK]

That is true we have the same issue in the uk where part time jobs, temping and zero hour contracts, as opposed to permanent full time work, probably make up the bulk of job gains, [I wonder if zero hour contracts exist in the US]

I'm guessing a large chunk of that 2 trillion was spent on the military, obviously it's a big employer and that sort of thing can go down well with voters, however I don't buy the idea that as soon as trump came in he had a free hand to do as he wished, there would be considerable influence on where he spent the money, the generals etc.. bearing in mind in govt circles he has very few allies, so I suspect he hoped the pumped in money would create a feel good factor and go on from there.

I think policy wise, including the tariffs, he is not dissimilar to the 1950's and 60's democrats; would you say germany is a better run country today than in the 80's and 90's?...the voters old enough can remember when politics and life was saner, and that's what they are looking for, a return to common sense politics. Trump must be popular across a broad mix of people to beat all the other republicans and then hillary.

Look mack, in the 80s the world was in its order it had grown into over the previous decades. Globalism, internet, low-cost airlines etc where a thing of a distant future. There were clear clichees - e.g. the modern West vs. the dangerous East etc. Everyone pretty much knew where his/her place was.

A lot of people would start as an apprentice in a company and retire at the very same some 45 years later. When you went to buy an electric appliance you bought Bosch, AEG or similar in Germany and Whirlpool in the UK. All was made in factories in your country, paying decent wages so one salary earner could provide for an entire family.

That changed rapidly since and people are still adapting to the "new" world. Manufacturing nowadways travels like a caravan through the countries with the lowest wages, which is partly due to our laziness as we don't like it that much anymore to get our "hands dirty".

You had a handful of TV channels, 99% national companies and world news were just a peripheral thing unless it was the World Cup, Olympics or the likes.

In essence, it was all easier to handle for government as outside influences were marginal. Personally, I have benefitted from the "opening" of the world, so I can't be too negative about it but I was lucky enough to be at the right time at the right places.

Pandora's Box was opened in those years and nothing, not even if Mr. T cranks his tariffs up to 1,000%, will close it again. We have to learn to live in the world as it is not as we would like it to be.

 

[vorcirion]

See ... there’s no hiding it or denying. What we’ve known on this board for months now.

Here is why you shouldn’t be anti USA. Because one president is not America.

Because America is made up of good hard working people who just want to live their lives like everyone else on this planet. He is one president out of 45.

But think of it this way...I'm sure you'd agree that North Korea is full of amazing hard working people too? But when you have those crazy leaders who are working against other countries...it's pretty hard to be for those specific countries. And US citizens elected Trump (well less than half of them did gladly). What if that happens again? It tells something about US to me that I can't be for. Your president just has way too much power to do things by himself.

 

[mack341]

This award winning writer from Canada has an interesting view on globalism, if the people have an influence at the ballot box I'm not sure there will be no changes to the global government direction countries are moving in:

 

[slotplayer]

"In May 2018, Owens suggested that "something bio-chemically happens" to women who do not marry or have children"
"Silverman responded: "It seems to me that by tweeting this, you would like to maybe make us feel badly. I'd say this is evidenced by ur effort to use our twitter handles so we would see. My heart breaks for you, Candy. I hope you find happiness in whatever form that takes."Owens responded, accusing Silverman of supporting terrorists and crime gangs."

"Owens has said: "The left hates America, and Trump loves it.""
"She has said that the left is "destroying everything through this cultural Marxist ideology.""

"You know, he was a national socialist, but if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he wanted—he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. That's not, to me, that's not nationalism."

I don't know about the lack of feeling on the call for motherhood but she's right about the Marxism. There is a reason I called you Carl in a post couple-few weeks ago. Should have spelled it with a K though.

 

[slotplayer]

That is true we have the same issue in the uk where part time jobs, temping and zero hour contracts, as opposed to permanent full time work, probably make up the bulk of job gains, [I wonder if zero hour contracts exist in the US]

I'm guessing a large chunk of that 2 trillion was spent on the military, obviously it's a big employer and that sort of thing can go down well with voters, however I don't buy the idea that as soon as trump came in he had a free hand to do as he wished, there would be considerable influence on where he spent the money, the generals etc.. bearing in mind in govt circles he has very few allies, so I suspect he hoped the pumped in money would create a feel good factor and go on from there.

I think policy wise, including the tariffs, he is not dissimilar to the 1950's and 60's democrats; would you say germany is a better run country today than in the 80's and 90's?...the voters old enough can remember when politics and life was saner, and that's what they are looking for, a return to common sense politics. Trump must be popular across a broad mix of people to beat all the other republicans and then hillary.

Those jobs reports come out Monthly, the unemployment rates tick up or down and the previous month or months job creation are almost always revised up or down.

Anyway a global recession of biblical proportions is on the horizon.

 

[slotplayer]

I'll just stop responding to you actually. You don't bring anything healthy for the debate. All you bring are conspiracy theories and crazy people. Impossible to take you seriously...but unfortunately there are people who listen to you and cherry pick things that sound good for their right wing policies.

You mean I'm not combative and don't post opinions just facts to back up my positions.

 

[goatwack]

Looking forward to this grand recession, because the last one was such a barrel of laughs

 

[slotplayer]

You might not be anti American but there are some posters on here that are.

Vorcirion, for example, is not pro USA (his words not mine) which makes him anti USA.

Trump is one president out 45. to be anti USA because of him does not really make sense to me.

They're both more anti-America than pro-America or even neutral for that matter.

 

[TheAddict]

site seemed to go down
sky internet is shit.
result = double post

 

[TheAddict]

You mean I'm not combative and don't post opinions just facts to back up my positions.

Does this sound familiar to you by any chance?

'I'll just stop responding to you!' (Said with a red face as the veins swell to epic proportions, screaming as loud as furiously possible), followed by over riding anything further you might say with 'blah blah blah, blah blah blah' then adding in other random physcotic noises for extra effect if you dare to try and get a word. 'You're crazy!' -starts dancing around like an insane person-. 'A conspiracy theorist! ..blah blah blah, look!.. now i can't hear you! -You try to speak once more but get interrupted - 'blah blah blah! Look how crazy you are!' While others (seemingly, often not even totally sure why, but nevertheless act upon hearing the call for help) instinctively begin to join in with the psycho noises and war dance.

Makes for some seriously hilarious viewing when recorded on camera.

 

[goatwack]

site seemed to go down
sky internet is shit.
result = double post

Ah, a fellow Sky broadbander!

Yes, it is shit

 

[TheAddict]

a drop of rain is like the effects of a nuclear bomb mate haha

 

[slotplayer]

Does this sound familiar to you by any chance?

'I'll just stop responding to you!' (Said with a red face as the veins swell to epic proportions, screaming as loud as furiously possible), followed by over riding anything further you might say with 'blah blah blah, blah blah blah' then adding in other random physcotic noises for extra effect if you dare to try and get a word. 'You're crazy!' -starts dancing around like an insane person-. 'A conspiracy theorist! ..blah blah blah, look!.. now i can't hear you! -You try to speak once more but get interrupted - 'blah blah blah! Look how crazy you are!' While others (seemingly, often not even totally sure why, but nevertheless act upon hearing the call for help) instinctively begin to join in with the psycho noises and war dance.

Makes for some seriously hilarious viewing when recorded on camera.

That is funny.

btw, site went down here to.

 

[ternur]

They're both more anti-America than pro-America or even neutral for that matter.

This is the mentality that drives the US to interfere with all kinds of (geo)political issues all over the globe. "You either with us or against us".

It's not that simple. The British Empire fell, Pax Americana is dead.

"If history teaches us anything, it teaches that whenever there is a sovereign power monopoly, it will take advantage of the situation. It will impose its own rules upon others; rules that best serve its own interests. In defense of its own security, it will rise above any law or principle that it expects others to honor precisely because it cannot be held accountable. This is exactly what we have witnessed in U.S. foreign policy"

Alasuutari, P. (2004). The Principles of Pax Americana. Cultural Studies ↔ Critical Methodologies, 4(2), 246–249. DOI: 10.1177/1532708603262789

 

[slotplayer]

This is the mentality that drives the US to interfere with all kinds of (geo)political issues all over the globe. "You either with us or against us".

It's not that simple. The British Empire fell, Pax Americana is dead.

You want the US to fall and not be a super power thinking that vacuum won't be filled.
Good luck with that.

 

[ternur]

You want the US to fall and not be a super power thinking that vacuum won't be filled.
Good luck with that.

Not what I said. You seem to have a habit of intentionally missing the point.

Good luck with that.