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New Visa Laws for U.S.?

Discussion in 'Payment Processing Issues' started by pokerdan, Aug 14, 2010.

    Aug 14, 2010
  1. pokerdan

    pokerdan Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    poker player
    Location:
    LA
    I had a recent complaint about 3dice casino and the fact they do not allow U.S. customers to use Visa. They said there has been a recent change in the law. I cannot find anything anywhere whether its a statute or not. I have never been able to use Visa at 3dice in the last year I have tried and first and foremost I am curious if anyone in the U.S. can tell me if they have ever used a Visa at 3dice? I just think they should state this to new players especially if it's a new law, not allowing everyone to know this is a bit shady in my opinion and I just recently found out that Full Tilt Poker has now implemented this new policy as well. Full Tilt Poker will no longer accept Visa, but they also are playing it rather quiet. Full Tilt Poker told me that they currrently will not allow U.S. customers to use Visa for situations beyond their control. This is something Full Tilt has decided to do as of last month. 3dice casino stated that there is a new law prohibiting them from allowing U.S, customers to deposit with Visa as of july1st, or as an email sent to me from their support stated June1st.

    Obviously something is going on with Visa and I would like to know the truth as to what happened, So, if anyone can find the new law or what has happened in the last few months please let me know, because I am always trying to keep up with these laws.

    Another intersting thing that 3dice said was that will not call themselves a show company or bowling alley to illegally accept Visa. Does this mean that before June 1st they were illegally allowing people from the U.S. to make deposits via Visa by calling themselves a bowling alley? The reason I ask is because every time I deposit at any online casino using my visa card they call themselves a computer company, a flower company or some other strange name. This happens at every single online site! From Bodog, Full Tilt poker, pokerstars, and tons of accredited sites, they all use the same methods to get my deposits to clear. If this is illegal as 3dice casino states than I am very upset at all these sites. I always just figured that they did this to make sure i could continually deposit because the U.S. frowns upon online gambling. I am honestly feeling like if i live in the U.S. it is a mistake to deposit and play anywhere because technically it is illegal. But I really find it funny that most sites hide behind the unlawful internet gambling act as a way to protect themselves, because technically it has always been illegal to play online from the U.S., even prior to the internet gambling act. however this is all a "GREY" area, and obviously it only matters if the U.S. actually really cares or not. Guess the bottom line is that I would like more information on what has recently happened concerning the VISA situation,,, thanks
     
  2. Aug 14, 2010
  3. jelsmith

    jelsmith Zombicidal Maniac PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Special Effects Make-up Artist
    Location:
    nashville tn
    this needs to go to America the Beautiful Please! Then Ill comment.
     
  4. Aug 14, 2010
  5. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    No banks in the USA openly condone the use of Visa for gambling. In most cases the only reason these transactions go through is because they are miscoded (a blatant lie). A Casino can have their processor label the transaction as clothing, merchandise, beverages, restaraunt, etc. The very fact that some casinos will essentially lie to the processor should be an alarm that their integrity is suspect. No wonder we have trust issues with online casinos. 3Dice has apparently decided not to lie to get Visa transactions through. Commendable, actually. :)


    And, what Jel said above. ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Aug 14, 2010
  7. pokerdan

    pokerdan Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    poker player
    Location:
    LA
    Very intersting to know that all these casinos are lying to get the deposits to go through, however the majority of these sites are accredited and their integrity is sound as far as payouts and fairness of gambling is concerned. I do admire the fact that 3dice is not allowing this to continue and will not do what other casinos are doing to allow U.S. customers to deposit but this does not change the fact they initially lied to me by stating it was for insufficient funds. I am glad they have cleared this up from their email to me, but I still think they should let everyone know that they will not accept Visa from U.S. customers no matter what, instead of acting like they do accept Visa from U.S. Regardless I am still looking to find out what the recent situation is that has alarmed all these online casinos to stay away from calling themselves a flower shop LOL.. Not sure if someone has sued, or not. Thanks for letting me know that these are indeed illegal transactions that all of these casinos are doing. Apprently if you can and do buy-in with Visa at any online casino, regardless if it's a prepaid Visa or not, the only way the transaction will got through is if the site calls themselves a strange a name.
     
  8. Aug 14, 2010
  9. pokerdan

    pokerdan Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    poker player
    Location:
    LA
    interesting article
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  10. Aug 15, 2010
  11. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    Also when not able to fund by Visa, I can always fund QuickTender, then fund the casino, although I don't like the 5% fee. On a side note, the US government thinking they can stop the flow of money for gaming is just silly. People will find a way and 3 party processors will help people find a way.
     
  12. Aug 15, 2010
  13. refre

    refre Senior lurker PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Professional slot player
    Location:
    .
    I could be mistaken, but I don't think 3Dice has mis-coded their card transactions. The ones who do, will continue to accept deposits, as long as there are processors willing to take the risk...

    AFAIK 3Dice uses a reputable european processor for their card transactions.

    IMHOP, I don't think theres much lying going on. I'm sure the processors are aware of the risks and the rewards.


    Freddy
     
  14. Aug 15, 2010
  15. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    I never said 3Dice did. I said they probably would not do such a thing, hence no Visa deposits for US cusomers. The lying going on is what the processor is telling the card issuing bank, an arrangement between the casino and processor, no doubt. Since US credit card issuers do not allow online gaming transactions, how else would they pass? No, I'm not trying to sound too holy here. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Aug 15, 2010
  17. refre

    refre Senior lurker PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Professional slot player
    Location:
    .
    Never said you said :p But I do see it could be read like that. Was trying to answers OPs question.


    Freddy
     
  18. Aug 15, 2010
  19. SlotKing

    SlotKing Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Building the Best Vehicles On Earth... Ford Escape
    Location:
    Kentucky, ya'll...
    Answering the OP's question, yes, NetSpend was an option for using a VISA at 3Dice before June 1st, and it was successful for every attempt I had before that date.

    3Dice does not (and will not) re-code the transaction on a credit/debit card to anything other than gaming, so it will be declined by any US-based bank because the UIGEA prevents banks from allowing gaming transactions to be accepted, however, we all know there will be ways around it.
     
  20. Aug 15, 2010
  21. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Done. Always best if you can use the "Report Post" feature for things like this or we may miss it :thumbsup:
     
  22. Aug 15, 2010
  23. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Casinos should stop LYING to players as to WHY these changes are being made. When there is a POLICY, do NOT call it a "new LAW". VISA have long had a COMPANY POLICY (not a "law") of not processing gambling transactions for US players, which was triggered by the initial passing of UIGEA. Casinos have routinely gotten around this by miscoding the transactions. On June 1st, UIGEA became fully active, and this is when it became much harder to get around the restrictions, since the banks are now required to monitor suspicious transactions, and reject all those that look like they are related to illegal gambling deposits. Before this implementation, banks made it clear that they had no interest in enforcing the provisions of UIGEA on a voluntary basis because the act was too vague in defining just what constituted an illegal gambling transaction (as opposed to a LEGAL gambling transaction). Before June 1st, miscoding worked because the banks were not really interested in investigating the issue. Now, they ARE looking for miscoded transactions, and early this year VISA had a big crackdown, and confiscated some payments from processors who had been found miscoding them in order to bypass VISA policies. This has scared casinos and processors since it has established a principle that deposits WILL be confiscated after the fact if investigation shows that they were miscoded in order to get them through. This could happen even when players have won, and been paid.

    The "new law" being referred to IS this UIGEA, which is an "old" law, but one that was only IMPLEMENTED on June 1st, thus has only now begun to bite (and not all that well it seems). 3 Dice will NEVER get a VISA transaction to work for players unless they are prepared to miscode it. If caught, VISA will take the money back from them.

    US players prepared to take the risks will have to utilise these other "grey" methods to deposit and withdraw that have been developed to bypass UIGEA.

    Alcohol prohibition didn't work, and was eventually ditched, so there is no real prospect of online gambling prohibition working over the long term.

    Drugs have been illegal for decades, yet the problem has never been as bad as it is now. The streets here in the UK are flooded with drugs, despite all the efforts to stamp them out.

    Probibition of parts of the economy will not work unless the measures are so tight as to cripple most of the rest of it.
     
  24. Aug 15, 2010
  25. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    how long have you been playing online casino's , [ there are hurdles ]

    respectfully rockycatt
     
  26. Aug 15, 2010
  27. 3Dice

    3Dice I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Hi VWM,

    Isn't that semantics ? The UIGEA did not come into effect until june 1st. I'd have to check with our lawyers but I don't know if its even called a law before it comes into effect. In fact is that this is the point in time where everyone needs to start following it - not so before that point. Furthermore it is not a law against casino's - its one that prohibits processors from processing gambling coded transactions. Our transactions have always - and will always be coded as gambling. (before and after June 1st)

    Where did you get the information saying that VISA has always had a company policy of not processing gambling transactions in the US ? they have only stopped doing so june 1st - up to that point they were happy charging casinos more than double the clearing rate that they charge any other merchant for any other sector. Our merchant agreement - which contains ample rules on coding transactions - never included such a policy.

    When the UIGEA was first conceived, a number of big American banks decided not to wait for it to come into effect and started declining gambling coded transactions. This was their sole decision - and my guess is they didn't anticipate it taking so long for it to be implemented. This is why since that time only smaller banks and issuers like NetSpend were still accepting gambling coded transactions - since June 1st no US card will clear for a gambling coded transaction.

    3Dice changed nothing when june 1st came .. we have always operated 100% conform both the active legislation and the policy's of VISA.

    Kindest regards,

    Enzo
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Aug 15, 2010
  29. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Roulette Player
    Location:
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Hiya: part of the 3dice post I can verify is true. Several years ago, i could use my Visa Debit card, or my Visa Credit card to deposit/withdraw at casino's. I only choose to use Neteller because if you used a credit card, 'You had to payback the card first", beofre you got any money. example

    deposit $300 on Visa card
    win $400, for a total of $700.
    You can not just withdraw the $700....................
    First you had to withdraw $300, "the deposit", back to the Visa card.
    After that, you could withdraw the $400 via another means, to you.

    However, Visa/mastercard, NEVER worked at ALL Casino's. There were always some where the transaction was declined, and you had to choose another deposit method. You would get the message, "We are sorry, but your credit card was declined. This does not mean that you did not have the funds available for the deposit. Please contact your bank as to the cause of the transaction being declined".

    Hell, as i posted here before several months ago, I had BOA, "on their own", do a chargeback against 3Dice via QT. I am now unable to use QT, or play at 3Dice. I will just open a new account, using by Philippine banking info when i move back later this year.
     
  30. Aug 15, 2010
  31. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    I had a small credit union on their own decide to void several of my Visa debit card transactions. One day at work I got a call from the assistant branch manager informing me that she had voided the transactions, put the money back in my account, and if I were caught gambling online again they would close my account. That scared me. From then on, I have only gambled with funded 3rd party ewallets.
     
  32. Aug 16, 2010
  33. doc3738

    doc3738 Full Member

    Occupation:
    mech
    Location:
    texas
    vis credit card deposit

    I think everyone is a little off the mark on this,the law that went into affect never says they cant do gambling transactions
    If I can find it I will post a letter from visa
    It says they cannot accept illegal gambling transactions,to my knowledge that would only be something like cock fights (chickens) and dog fights or maybe some underground fighting with people
    For some reason they have chosen to not honor any gambling transaction
    The letter says if I accept these new terms then nothing needs to be done
    Any of you that have a visa card should have received the same letter so go back and look and then read and see if it does not say " illegal gambling"
     
  34. Aug 16, 2010
  35. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    Take a state, such as California. A gambling debt is not legally collectible. That put's Visa in a bad position. Courts have ruled against the credit card companies in the past and ruled the debts caused by gambling as non collectible, infact, one lady was not only absolved of her debt but received punative damages from the credit card company for allowing this to happen to her.
     
  36. Aug 16, 2010
  37. empirestate

    empirestate Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    florida
    I have to come up against the no visa for some casinos

    It seems these casinos online of course they want the USA money,take a number so does everyone else(LOL), but seriously, they tell you lies about not taking visa from us, why dont they say the truth in the first place,"like we cant process visa from the US, or we are or cannot be a merchant of visa in the US, because then the online casinos would have to go threw background checks, US laws, and many other reasons prevent them from geting away with it. I have been lied to from online casinos, they use every excuse in the book except hey i cant process your credit card, instead they try and push you to deposit via western union or moneygram, what i dont like about using moneygram or western union with these online casinos, they use individuals called runners, what happens if they run off where our money (LOL) hey maybe thats where the name came from! who knows.I dont like our goverment sticking there nose in the internet only to seee if they can tax us more, and if they cant, its illegal, this makes me madd to be a US citzen, where all others times i am mostly proud. Tell the Gov't to keep their hands out of our computers...........
     
  38. Aug 16, 2010
  39. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    I used up my quota of thanks, which is silly.

    Anyway, I believe VWM hit the nail on the head with his post here.

    Good job, VWM!!!!!
     

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