New Visa Laws for U.S.?

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
I had a recent complaint about 3dice casino and the fact they do not allow U.S. customers to use Visa. They said there has been a recent change in the law. I cannot find anything anywhere whether its a statute or not. I have never been able to use Visa at 3dice in the last year I have tried and first and foremost I am curious if anyone in the U.S. can tell me if they have ever used a Visa at 3dice? I just think they should state this to new players especially if it's a new law, not allowing everyone to know this is a bit shady in my opinion and I just recently found out that Full Tilt Poker has now implemented this new policy as well. Full Tilt Poker will no longer accept Visa, but they also are playing it rather quiet. Full Tilt Poker told me that they currrently will not allow U.S. customers to use Visa for situations beyond their control. This is something Full Tilt has decided to do as of last month. 3dice casino stated that there is a new law prohibiting them from allowing U.S, customers to deposit with Visa as of july1st, or as an email sent to me from their support stated June1st.

Obviously something is going on with Visa and I would like to know the truth as to what happened, So, if anyone can find the new law or what has happened in the last few months please let me know, because I am always trying to keep up with these laws.

Another intersting thing that 3dice said was that will not call themselves a show company or bowling alley to illegally accept Visa. Does this mean that before June 1st they were illegally allowing people from the U.S. to make deposits via Visa by calling themselves a bowling alley? The reason I ask is because every time I deposit at any online casino using my visa card they call themselves a computer company, a flower company or some other strange name. This happens at every single online site! From Bodog, Full Tilt poker, pokerstars, and tons of accredited sites, they all use the same methods to get my deposits to clear. If this is illegal as 3dice casino states than I am very upset at all these sites. I always just figured that they did this to make sure i could continually deposit because the U.S. frowns upon online gambling. I am honestly feeling like if i live in the U.S. it is a mistake to deposit and play anywhere because technically it is illegal. But I really find it funny that most sites hide behind the unlawful internet gambling act as a way to protect themselves, because technically it has always been illegal to play online from the U.S., even prior to the internet gambling act. however this is all a "GREY" area, and obviously it only matters if the U.S. actually really cares or not. Guess the bottom line is that I would like more information on what has recently happened concerning the VISA situation,,, thanks
 
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takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Washington
No banks in the USA openly condone the use of Visa for gambling. In most cases the only reason these transactions go through is because they are miscoded (a blatant lie). A Casino can have their processor label the transaction as clothing, merchandise, beverages, restaraunt, etc. The very fact that some casinos will essentially lie to the processor should be an alarm that their integrity is suspect. No wonder we have trust issues with online casinos. 3Dice has apparently decided not to lie to get Visa transactions through. Commendable, actually. :)


And, what Jel said above. ;)
 

pokerdan

Senior Member
PABaccred
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Location
LA
Very intersting to know that all these casinos are lying to get the deposits to go through, however the majority of these sites are accredited and their integrity is sound as far as payouts and fairness of gambling is concerned. I do admire the fact that 3dice is not allowing this to continue and will not do what other casinos are doing to allow U.S. customers to deposit but this does not change the fact they initially lied to me by stating it was for insufficient funds. I am glad they have cleared this up from their email to me, but I still think they should let everyone know that they will not accept Visa from U.S. customers no matter what, instead of acting like they do accept Visa from U.S. Regardless I am still looking to find out what the recent situation is that has alarmed all these online casinos to stay away from calling themselves a flower shop LOL.. Not sure if someone has sued, or not. Thanks for letting me know that these are indeed illegal transactions that all of these casinos are doing. Apprently if you can and do buy-in with Visa at any online casino, regardless if it's a prepaid Visa or not, the only way the transaction will got through is if the site calls themselves a strange a name.
 

takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Washington
Also when not able to fund by Visa, I can always fund QuickTender, then fund the casino, although I don't like the 5% fee. On a side note, the US government thinking they can stop the flow of money for gaming is just silly. People will find a way and 3 party processors will help people find a way.
 

refre

Senior lurker
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
.
I could be mistaken, but I don't think 3Dice has mis-coded their card transactions. The ones who do, will continue to accept deposits, as long as there are processors willing to take the risk...

AFAIK 3Dice uses a reputable european processor for their card transactions.

A Casino can have their processor label the transaction as clothing, merchandise, beverages, restaraunt, etc. The very fact that some casinos will essentially lie to the processor should be an alarm that their integrity is suspect. No wonder we have trust issues with online casinos.

IMHOP, I don't think theres much lying going on. I'm sure the processors are aware of the risks and the rewards.


Freddy
 

takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Washington
I could be mistaken, but I don't think 3Dice has mis-coded their card transactions. The ones who do, will continue to accept deposits, as long as there are processors willing to take the risk...

AFAIK 3Dice uses a reputable european processor for their card transactions.



IMHOP, I don't think theres much lying going on. I'm sure the processors are aware of the risks and the rewards.


Freddy

I never said 3Dice did. I said they probably would not do such a thing, hence no Visa deposits for US cusomers. The lying going on is what the processor is telling the card issuing bank, an arrangement between the casino and processor, no doubt. Since US credit card issuers do not allow online gaming transactions, how else would they pass? No, I'm not trying to sound too holy here. :)
 

refre

Senior lurker
PABnonaccred
PABnoaccred
Joined
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Location
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I never said 3Dice did. I said they probably would not do such a thing, hence no Visa deposits for US cusomers. The lying going on is what the processor is telling the card issuing bank, an arrangement between the casino and processor, no doubt. Since US credit card issuers do not allow online gaming transactions, how else would they pass? No, I'm not trying to sound too holy here. :)

Never said you said :p But I do see it could be read like that. Was trying to answers OPs question.

Another intersting thing that 3dice said was that will not call themselves a show company or bowling alley to illegally accept Visa. Does this mean that before June 1st they were illegally allowing people from the U.S. to make deposits via Visa by calling themselves a bowling alley?


Freddy
 

SlotKing

New Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Kentucky, ya'll...
Answering the OP's question, yes, NetSpend was an option for using a VISA at 3Dice before June 1st, and it was successful for every attempt I had before that date.

3Dice does not (and will not) re-code the transaction on a credit/debit card to anything other than gaming, so it will be declined by any US-based bank because the UIGEA prevents banks from allowing gaming transactions to be accepted, however, we all know there will be ways around it.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Casinos should stop LYING to players as to WHY these changes are being made. When there is a POLICY, do NOT call it a "new LAW". VISA have long had a COMPANY POLICY (not a "law") of not processing gambling transactions for US players, which was triggered by the initial passing of UIGEA. Casinos have routinely gotten around this by miscoding the transactions. On June 1st, UIGEA became fully active, and this is when it became much harder to get around the restrictions, since the banks are now required to monitor suspicious transactions, and reject all those that look like they are related to illegal gambling deposits. Before this implementation, banks made it clear that they had no interest in enforcing the provisions of UIGEA on a voluntary basis because the act was too vague in defining just what constituted an illegal gambling transaction (as opposed to a LEGAL gambling transaction). Before June 1st, miscoding worked because the banks were not really interested in investigating the issue. Now, they ARE looking for miscoded transactions, and early this year VISA had a big crackdown, and confiscated some payments from processors who had been found miscoding them in order to bypass VISA policies. This has scared casinos and processors since it has established a principle that deposits WILL be confiscated after the fact if investigation shows that they were miscoded in order to get them through. This could happen even when players have won, and been paid.

The "new law" being referred to IS this UIGEA, which is an "old" law, but one that was only IMPLEMENTED on June 1st, thus has only now begun to bite (and not all that well it seems). 3 Dice will NEVER get a VISA transaction to work for players unless they are prepared to miscode it. If caught, VISA will take the money back from them.

US players prepared to take the risks will have to utilise these other "grey" methods to deposit and withdraw that have been developed to bypass UIGEA.

Alcohol prohibition didn't work, and was eventually ditched, so there is no real prospect of online gambling prohibition working over the long term.

Drugs have been illegal for decades, yet the problem has never been as bad as it is now. The streets here in the UK are flooded with drugs, despite all the efforts to stamp them out.

Probibition of parts of the economy will not work unless the measures are so tight as to cripple most of the rest of it.
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
Very interesting to know that all these casinos are lying to get the deposits to go through, however the majority of these sites are accredited and their integrity is sound as far as payouts and fairness of gambling is concerned. I do admire the fact that 3dice is not allowing this to continue and will not do what other casinos are doing to allow U.S. customers to deposit but this does not change the fact they initially lied to me by stating it was for insufficient funds. I am glad they have cleared this up from their email to me, but I still think they should let everyone know that they will not accept Visa from U.S. customers no matter what, instead of acting like they do accept Visa from U.S. Regardless I am still looking to find out what the recent situation is that has alarmed all these online casinos to stay away from calling themselves a flower shop LOL.. Not sure if someone has sued, or not. Thanks for letting me know that these are indeed illegal transactions that all of these casinos are doing. Apparently if you can and do buy-in with Visa at any online casino, regardless if it's a prepaid Visa or not, the only way the transaction will got through is if the site calls themselves a strange a name.

how long have you been playing online casino's , [ there are hurdles ]

respectfully rockycatt
 

3Dice

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
-
Hi VWM,

Isn't that semantics ? The UIGEA did not come into effect until june 1st. I'd have to check with our lawyers but I don't know if its even called a law before it comes into effect. In fact is that this is the point in time where everyone needs to start following it - not so before that point. Furthermore it is not a law against casino's - its one that prohibits processors from processing gambling coded transactions. Our transactions have always - and will always be coded as gambling. (before and after June 1st)

Where did you get the information saying that VISA has always had a company policy of not processing gambling transactions in the US ? they have only stopped doing so june 1st - up to that point they were happy charging casinos more than double the clearing rate that they charge any other merchant for any other sector. Our merchant agreement - which contains ample rules on coding transactions - never included such a policy.

When the UIGEA was first conceived, a number of big American banks decided not to wait for it to come into effect and started declining gambling coded transactions. This was their sole decision - and my guess is they didn't anticipate it taking so long for it to be implemented. This is why since that time only smaller banks and issuers like NetSpend were still accepting gambling coded transactions - since June 1st no US card will clear for a gambling coded transaction.

3Dice changed nothing when june 1st came .. we have always operated 100% conform both the active legislation and the policy's of VISA.

Kindest regards,

Enzo
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: part of the 3dice post I can verify is true. Several years ago, i could use my Visa Debit card, or my Visa Credit card to deposit/withdraw at casino's. I only choose to use Neteller because if you used a credit card, 'You had to payback the card first", beofre you got any money. example

deposit $300 on Visa card
win $400, for a total of $700.
You can not just withdraw the $700....................
First you had to withdraw $300, "the deposit", back to the Visa card.
After that, you could withdraw the $400 via another means, to you.

However, Visa/mastercard, NEVER worked at ALL Casino's. There were always some where the transaction was declined, and you had to choose another deposit method. You would get the message, "We are sorry, but your credit card was declined. This does not mean that you did not have the funds available for the deposit. Please contact your bank as to the cause of the transaction being declined".

Hell, as i posted here before several months ago, I had BOA, "on their own", do a chargeback against 3Dice via QT. I am now unable to use QT, or play at 3Dice. I will just open a new account, using by Philippine banking info when i move back later this year.
 

takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Washington
I had a small credit union on their own decide to void several of my Visa debit card transactions. One day at work I got a call from the assistant branch manager informing me that she had voided the transactions, put the money back in my account, and if I were caught gambling online again they would close my account. That scared me. From then on, I have only gambled with funded 3rd party ewallets.
 

doc3738

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Location
texas
vis credit card deposit

I think everyone is a little off the mark on this,the law that went into affect never says they cant do gambling transactions
If I can find it I will post a letter from visa
It says they cannot accept illegal gambling transactions,to my knowledge that would only be something like cock fights (chickens) and dog fights or maybe some underground fighting with people
For some reason they have chosen to not honor any gambling transaction
The letter says if I accept these new terms then nothing needs to be done
Any of you that have a visa card should have received the same letter so go back and look and then read and see if it does not say " illegal gambling"
 

takethemoney

Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Location
Washington
Take a state, such as California. A gambling debt is not legally collectible. That put's Visa in a bad position. Courts have ruled against the credit card companies in the past and ruled the debts caused by gambling as non collectible, infact, one lady was not only absolved of her debt but received punative damages from the credit card company for allowing this to happen to her.
 

empirestate

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Location
florida
I have to come up against the no visa for some casinos

It seems these casinos online of course they want the USA money,take a number so does everyone else(LOL), but seriously, they tell you lies about not taking visa from us, why dont they say the truth in the first place,"like we cant process visa from the US, or we are or cannot be a merchant of visa in the US, because then the online casinos would have to go threw background checks, US laws, and many other reasons prevent them from geting away with it. I have been lied to from online casinos, they use every excuse in the book except hey i cant process your credit card, instead they try and push you to deposit via western union or moneygram, what i dont like about using moneygram or western union with these online casinos, they use individuals called runners, what happens if they run off where our money (LOL) hey maybe thats where the name came from! who knows.I dont like our goverment sticking there nose in the internet only to seee if they can tax us more, and if they cant, its illegal, this makes me madd to be a US citzen, where all others times i am mostly proud. Tell the Gov't to keep their hands out of our computers...........
 

gambler777

Full Member
PABaccred
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Location
USA
I am beginning to wonder if we should be posting anything anywhere. I have so far been having good luck with the all access gift visa. However, as of 2 days ago, they have been pulled from all the places that sell them. They are not available anywhere in our area. So now I am wondering why they were all pulled, and the stores cannot even say why they were pulled. Very odd. On another note, I have never had a problem funding with my bank debit visa, I cannot tell if miscoded or not, but they don't say anything about flower shops, or such. I have also received wire transfers that clearly state where they are from and have had no problems with that either. It was my understanding that only some states regulated online gaming, but maybe that has changed as well. No knowledge, just more questions.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi VWM,

Isn't that semantics ? The UIGEA did not come into effect until june 1st. I'd have to check with our lawyers but I don't know if its even called a law before it comes into effect. In fact is that this is the point in time where everyone needs to start following it - not so before that point. Furthermore it is not a law against casino's - its one that prohibits processors from processing gambling coded transactions. Our transactions have always - and will always be coded as gambling. (before and after June 1st)

Where did you get the information saying that VISA has always had a company policy of not processing gambling transactions in the US ? they have only stopped doing so june 1st - up to that point they were happy charging casinos more than double the clearing rate that they charge any other merchant for any other sector. Our merchant agreement - which contains ample rules on coding transactions - never included such a policy.

When the UIGEA was first conceived, a number of big American banks decided not to wait for it to come into effect and started declining gambling coded transactions. This was their sole decision - and my guess is they didn't anticipate it taking so long for it to be implemented. This is why since that time only smaller banks and issuers like NetSpend were still accepting gambling coded transactions - since June 1st no US card will clear for a gambling coded transaction.

3Dice changed nothing when june 1st came .. we have always operated 100% conform both the active legislation and the policy's of VISA.

Kindest regards,

Enzo

The problem is that every time someone asks a casino about VISA & the US, they get a different answer. If the truth was being told, there would always be ONE answer given, whatever casino you asked.

We KNOW that SOME of these stories are lies, but cannot tell WHICH. There were reports of this "new VISA Policy" from US players even before UIGEA was signed, let alone enacted. This was POLICY, not a "law". The problem is that it looks like some casinos cannot process VISA, yet others can. Clearly, this is down to individual POLICY decisions, rather than a "law", new or otherwise. Some players reported the SAME card being declined at one casino, yet accepted at another. This was something to do with the policy of the PROCESSOR engaged by the casino, and as far as players are concerned, this is no different than if it were casino policy, as the casino, not the players, choose which processor to use.

3 Dice WERE accepting VISA, even though many US banks were operating UIGEA. When the law was SIGNED, it was the intent that banks start the process of implementing it. Casinos should have started forming policies then, but it seems that most opted to carry on trying to process VISA until the point of total failure, at which point they gave up, blaming NOT a change of policy (to one of giving up on "trial and error" attempts to get VISA to work and enacting a blanket ban), but an external change. VISA STILL works for US players, and it does not always seem to be down to miscoding.

I suspect it is down to the risk of retrospective chargebacks, rather than the transactions failing, that has driven casinos to blanket ban VISA for US customers.

This sums up the arrogant attitude among casino operators:-

Hell, as i posted here before several months ago, I had BOA, "on their own", do a chargeback against 3Dice via QT. I am now unable to use QT, or play at 3Dice. I will just open a new account, using by Philippine banking info when i move back later this year.

How is this the PLAYER'S fault:confused:

Both QT and 3Dice KNEW there was always this risk in accepting US deposits, but it is always the PLAYER'S fault when UIGEA is used by a bank to reverse a series of gambling transactions, the player concerned has no say in the matter, yet it is the PLAYER that gets blackballed by the casino (and sometimes the industry as a whole through blacklists).
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: VWM, since i was quoted, after making the post, 3dice sent me a pm, and I am allowed to play there. they did this right after i posted what BOA did.:thumbsup:

Also, it has been my expierience in the past that any Visa/MC had a chance of working at some places, and not working at others. Maybe there is/was some sort of uniform reason as to this, but i decided not to open accounts at a 100 casino's, do a survey, and find out why....

imhop, this is all so very easy. There are NO restrictions to sending money, "almost", any place in the world, to a person, via any means you want to use. Western union, pay pay, zoom, and on and on. So, why don't Casino's that want players from the USA to play at their casino, "Create their own, "Person/Processor"? :confused: Bodog does this via Western Union. It works. So why not expand on something that works?
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
VISA accepted everywhere I play except 3dice

I just attempted to deposit at 3dice via my visa debit and they didn't even attempt to process it. I know this because the minute I hit enter, a message came up that card not accepted.

So your only choice is to deposit via ewallet and pay a fee. Given that 3dice comps are virtually way below any other casino group. I am not willing to pay the fee to deposit via quicktender.

Their bonuses are junk if available at all.

Can't understand the hype for this group. Vip perks suck!
 
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