Announcement New Section - Rating the Jurisdictions

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Well overdue, a new section is being created on the main site where we will be rating the licensing jurisdictions for online casinos:
Rating the Jurisdictions

I feel that the ratings are important since it is a consideration of the overall Casinomeister Score in the accredited section.

And the first review has been posted here:

Curacao-egaming review
 

citizenx

Non-Gambler
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Location
UK
Well overdue, a new section is being created on the main site where we will be rating the licensing jurisdictions for online casinos:
Rating the Jurisdictions

I feel that the ratings are important since it is a consideration of the overall Casinomeister Score in the accredited section.

And the first review has been posted here:

Curacao-egaming review

Good. But when it comes to the UK will you take on their excessive invasion in peoples personal freedom? Their recent changes are a disgrace.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Good. But when it comes to the UK will you take on their excessive invasion in peoples personal freedom? Their recent changes are a disgrace.

Like what? Please refer me to a thread that discusses this. Thanks!
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Well overdue, a new section is being created on the main site where we will be rating the licensing jurisdictions for online casinos:
Rating the Jurisdictions

I feel that the ratings are important since it is a consideration of the overall Casinomeister Score in the accredited section.

And the first review has been posted here:

Curacao-egaming review

As I am ignorant of the work and fees involved in licensing at the various jurisdictions, would there be any way of encouraging the accredited casinos to vote with their feet? I ask because unfortunately this shower of sh*te in the Central American jungle, due of their total intransigence, are eventually going to have a reputation which may reflect negatively in future on the good guys.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
As I am ignorant of the work and fees involved in licensing at the various jurisdictions, would there be any way of encouraging the accredited casinos to vote with their feet? I ask because unfortunately this shower of sh*te in the Central American jungle, due of their total intransigence, are eventually going to have a reputation which may reflect negatively in future on the good guys.

It's not all that simple. Licensing is very expensive, and for most casinos they chose the most cost effective way to do their business. That's why you have many casinos with both a Maltese license and one from Curacao. Voting with their feet may not be very easy, but perhaps a possibility when their license is up for renewal.
 

citizenx

Non-Gambler
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
Location
UK
Like what? Please refer me to a thread that discusses this. Thanks!

Can't quite locate it at the moment but its to do with the changes to auto play (max 100 spins) and incessant "reality checks".

Its the principle of them and the implementation which make the experience a lot less enjoyable for little benefit to the average player.

Keep meaning to go back to the FOIA stuff I got from UKGC on this particularly around consultation and their basis for forcing these changes on operators and users.

Long and short is state going too far in their zeal to protect us from ourselves.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Rating the jurisdictions is a great idea...and Curacao is an island nation in the southern Caribbean Sea, approximately 65 kilometres north of the Venezuelan coast, that is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

I agree with dunover that the licensing jurisdiction should be an important consideration for players.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
It might be interesting to ask for members' perceptions of the main jurisdictions, perhaps in the form of a 1 - 10 poll on important aspects such as credibility, responsiveness, efficacy, ease of access, fairness etc?
 

Clownesk

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2015
Location
Germany
Some suggestions

I have some suggestions concerning relevant points ... since the "specific attributes" are quite general, I´m not sure if you have already thought about that but, to me, they are very important.

- Standards concerning player protection: What does the authority require regarding player protection?
-> Options like deposit limits, time limits, loss limits, bet amount limits (!!), self exclusion with/without personal contact via e-mail/chat, revocal of self exclusion allowed/not
-> Option to completely self-exclude from all licence holders by contacting the authority
-> Player balances separated from the rest of the operating funds / not
-> (clear) play histories/ clear overview of wins/losses
-> verification process (reliable/not; before (!) playing/not)

- Terms & Conditions
Gibraltar Commission, for instance, says:

"Terms and conditions should be fair and reasonable and we require our operators to identify to customers any terms and conditions that are unusual, and review any that are found to cause confusion."

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So far, so good. But then they add: "It is possible for operators to be wrong in respect of what their terms and conditions mean, but it is very unusual."

I don`t know much about Gibraltar laws, but if casinos were located in Germany, most of the casinos would have invalid t&c because of disadvantaging players in an inappropiate way. The standards in those offshore financial centers might be much lower than in Germany but that doesnt mean that gambling authorities have to accept everything. I think about terms like 10.000 withdrawal limits on progressive winnings (while you can deposit 100.000 or more) but also terms like "play through your deposit 5 times before withdrawal" (I know that payments are expensive for casinos but I`m talking from a player`s perspective ... or have you ever been in a landbased casino were the employees told you to do that before leaving?). So, all in all, I think most gambling authorities only check if the player was in compliance with the t&c but not if the t&c were in compliance with the laws/reasonable player protection when there are complaints.


And finally ... I like your rating of Curacao :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I have some suggestions concerning relevant points ... since the "specific attributes" are quite general, I´m not sure if you have already thought about that but, to me, they are very important.

- Standards concerning player protection: What does the authority require regarding player protection?
-> Options like deposit limits, time limits, loss limits, bet amount limits (!!), self exclusion with/without personal contact via e-mail/chat, revocal of self exclusion allowed/not
-> Option to completely self-exclude from all licence holders by contacting the authority
-> Player balances separated from the rest of the operating funds / not
-> (clear) play histories/ clear overview of wins/losses
-> verification process (reliable/not; before (!) playing/not)

- Terms & Conditions
Gibraltar Commission, for instance, says:

"Terms and conditions should be fair and reasonable and we require our operators to identify to customers any terms and conditions that are unusual, and review any that are found to cause confusion."

(
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
)

So far, so good. But then they add: "It is possible for operators to be wrong in respect of what their terms and conditions mean, but it is very unusual."

I don`t know much about Gibraltar laws, but if casinos were located in Germany, most of the casinos would have invalid t&c because of disadvantaging players in an inappropiate way. The standards in those offshore financial centers might be much lower than in Germany but that doesnt mean that gambling authorities have to accept everything. I think about terms like 10.000 withdrawal limits on progressive winnings (while you can deposit 100.000 or more) but also terms like "play through your deposit 5 times before withdrawal" (I know that payments are expensive for casinos but I`m talking from a player`s perspective ... or have you ever been in a landbased casino were the employees told you to do that before leaving?). So, all in all, I think most gambling authorities only check if the player was in compliance with the t&c but not if the t&c were in compliance with the laws/reasonable player protection when there are complaints.


And finally ... I like your rating of Curacao :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thank you very much. That was quite helpful. :thumbsup:
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
I have some suggestions concerning relevant points ... since the "specific attributes" are quite general, I´m not sure if you have already thought about that but, to me, they are very important.

- Standards concerning player protection: What does the authority require regarding player protection?
-> Options like deposit limits, time limits, loss limits, bet amount limits (!!), self exclusion with/without personal contact via e-mail/chat, revocal of self exclusion allowed/not
-> Option to completely self-exclude from all licence holders by contacting the authority
-> Player balances separated from the rest of the operating funds / not
-> (clear) play histories/ clear overview of wins/losses
-> verification process (reliable/not; before (!) playing/not)

- Terms & Conditions
Gibraltar Commission, for instance, says:

"Terms and conditions should be fair and reasonable and we require our operators to identify to customers any terms and conditions that are unusual, and review any that are found to cause confusion."

(
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
)

So far, so good. But then they add: "It is possible for operators to be wrong in respect of what their terms and conditions mean, but it is very unusual."

I don`t know much about Gibraltar laws, but if casinos were located in Germany, most of the casinos would have invalid t&c because of disadvantaging players in an inappropiate way. The standards in those offshore financial centers might be much lower than in Germany but that doesnt mean that gambling authorities have to accept everything. I think about terms like 10.000 withdrawal limits on progressive winnings (while you can deposit 100.000 or more) but also terms like "play through your deposit 5 times before withdrawal" (I know that payments are expensive for casinos but I`m talking from a player`s perspective ... or have you ever been in a landbased casino were the employees told you to do that before leaving?). So, all in all, I think most gambling authorities only check if the player was in compliance with the t&c but not if the t&c were in compliance with the laws/reasonable player protection when there are complaints.

And finally ... I like your rating of Curacao :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

This is a very important sentence in respect of casino-consumer relationships. There are several terms under ALL licensing authorities which would conflict with consumer protection laws and guidelines, even in a decent LA such as the UKGC. As Vinyl keeps reminding us, until these are challenged in a civil court and ruled to be unfair the situation will remain.
 

Clownesk

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2015
Location
Germany
There are several terms under ALL licensing authorities which would conflict with consumer protection laws and guidelines, even in a decent LA such as the UKGC.

Yea, also some of my other points aren´t met by any authority. I didn`t write it in that way because I`m not sure about the "Schleswig-Holstein Authority" here in Germany. I have not checked the t&c of that legal German casinos yet. But at least I saw that "drückglück.de" doesnt have any "Impressum" (which is something like "legal notice") where you can find the address of the company etc. And it`s absolutely illegal not to have an Impressum in Germany. I told them about that some weeks ago and they said that they will check if something has to be done. Well, obviously, they decided that they aren`t responsible for it since there`s still no Impressum (and this really is something that cannot wait for some weeks, if Impressum is missing, you have to add it promptly).


And Casinomeister, you`re welcome.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Yea, also some of my other points aren´t met by any authority. I didn`t write it in that way because I`m not sure about the "Schleswig-Holstein Authority" here in Germany. I have not checked the t&c of that legal German casinos yet. But at least I saw that "drückglück.de" doesnt have any "Impressum" (which is something like "legal notice") where you can find the address of the company etc. And it`s absolutely illegal not to have an Impressum in Germany. I told them about that some weeks ago and they said that they will check if something has to be done. Well, obviously, they decided that they aren`t responsible for it since there`s still no Impressum (and this really is something that cannot wait for some weeks, if Impressum is missing, you have to add it promptly).


And Casinomeister, you`re welcome.

It's pretty easy to add as well (Impressum). They already have all of their licensing info - an address and phone number would pretty much complete what they need to have listed. I guess they are waiting for some aggressive German lawyer to send them a cease and desist letter - charging them a couple of Euro K. :p
 

Clownesk

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2015
Location
Germany
Makes absolutely sense :thumbsup:

But I think you misunderstood: I told the Schleswig-Holstein Authority about it ... so actually I would have expected them to exactly do that :D
 
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