new medical bill and a micro chip implant.

[skiny]

skiny, if I could I would give you so much reputation points your computer would catch fire.

"And how will you be paying those firemen when they arrive?"

We actually have a sale this week. One free resuscitation with every house fire and electrical fires are half price!

Got the feeling this wasn't an accident? Special rates on homocide investigations!

Dialing 911 saves lives and money!

Call now!

 

[Nifty29]

"And how will you be paying those firemen when they arrive?"

We actually have a sale this week. One free resuscitation with every house fire and electrical fires are half price!

Got the feeling this wasn't an accident? Special rates on homocide investigations!

Dialing 911 saves lives and money!

Call now!

How about if it looks like an electrical fire but turns out to be me setting fire to the carpet? Do I have to pay the other 50%?

Do you have payment plans via credit card? Is there any other incentives? I could do with some steak knives......but wait....there's more. I could also use a slice'n'dice.

Seriously, over here ANYONE can go to ANY public hospital in ANY medical situation and receive free treatment and medication for the duration of their stay, including any surgery and prostheses. Of course, there are waiting lists for elective surgery and minor conditions in the ER, but if you're seriously ill you will be seen and treated immediately. All you need is your Medicare card or number, which can be provided later.

If anyone is interested in how a good (but not flawless of course) public health system works visit

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The cost is 1.5% of your taxable income, which you only pay if you earn more than $15000 per year. If you earn more than $150000 per year and do not have private health insurance, you pay 2.5%.

Prescription medicine costs $5.90 per script if you are below a certain income (~$20k IIRC) or have children and only one income (less than $50k) or have a disability or ilness etc. Figures change from year to year. Once you reach 50 scripts in a year the rest are free. Considering I have one script which normally costs $290 a time (once a month) it makes a big difference. Whilst I may not be paying huge amounts of tax right now, I did so for many years, and hardly used medical services, so it isn't all "free".

I can also see any private doctor I like and not have to be out of pocket, with some exceptions for specialists and surgeons where a small gap is payable.

We have a mental health program that provides 12 free private psychiatric or psychology sessions per year, and a similar program providing 6 free physical therapy sessions.

Many other forms of assistance exist, including dental.

Does it mean that, to some degree, that the wealthy subsidise the less wealthy? Yes, but the wealthy have generally better accountants who can limit their liability, as the Medicare levy is based on taxable income rather than gross income, so they pay less tjan what they should in many cases.

I believe, and will always believe, that a society should be judged ny how well it treats its most vulnerable members. I believe the USA has a lot to learn in this regard.

I also think skiny is right on many points, with my favorite being the chances of the Obama (non racist) haters here needing medical treatment and insisting on paying cash and not using Obamacare. Ha! Right.

The USA has one big problem....the insurance companies run the show, and are judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to your health. No doubt, some pen pushing number cruncher on the 79th floor decides several times a day whether someone they've never met lives or dies. Death by calculator. How the supporters of such a disgraceful situation can sleep at night I have no idea.

 

[Balthazar]

I also think skiny is right on many points, with my favorite being the chances of the Obama (non racist) haters here needing medical treatment and insisting on paying cash and not using Obamacare. Ha! Right.

How can you "use" Obamacare exactly? Obamacare isn't some sort of alternative healthcare. Obamacare is a law to force people and private businesses (via tax threat) to buy health insurance and to force health insurance companies to accept everyone (thus raising the premiums). Ask any low wage worker in the US how happy they are with Obamacare. They get hours cut because their employers don't want to pay and are forced to buy insurance that they can't afford. They now have to work two part-time jobs instead of one full-time, or some of them are now hired as independent contractors so they don't receive ANY benefit at all, let alone healthcare. Businesses are finding a way around it, and low wage workers are getting the shaft.

It's a pretty fucked up situation.

 

[Balthazar]

There's a difference between being entitled to other people's money and being entitled to health care.

Where's the difference? If you're forced to pay for my healthcare or forced to pay for my new car, it makes no difference: I profit from your money even if I don't know you and you don't agree with it. This is a cold hard fact with no "moral thing to do" or other subjective thoughts involved.

I like facts.

 

[JAMES50]

I cannot beleive people r bitching about this. Like nothing needs to be done in the US about healthcare. ., We may be a superior force but we r soo far behind it is pitifull. I deal with this everyday.Thanks to free trade I buy all my inventory from China and Korea at 1/5 the cost of local warehouse.And spend ALL the profits in US.. I personal think Canada has the best healthcare system.Though none are perfect. And what US doesn't realize is we pay more without it. We have been paying uninsured for soo long.Get a grip and research people. It is a start and will equalize.Nothing is perfect and politics is majority.

 

[gloria460]

It would be wonderful to be able to get a microchip that held your whole medical records, and could be updated and even better if 911 was dispatched if you were in trouble.

I think it would be expensive if even the technology is there for it now, and I can't ever see it being mandatory, it would a premium service people would pay for.

A discount was offered to microchip my dog when he was in for the old snip snip, but all it would tell was his owner and address, and only if you had the right scanner. Which most pounds and vet offices have.

They have scanners that can scan your credit or debit card strips and steal them from inside your wallet or purse. Does anyone want to steal my health info?

While it may be interesting to discuss, this is not happening next month.

Years ago, they were trying to implement universal health records so that wherever you went in the US your next doctor could pull up your medical record and see what was going on. From what I can tell they're still doing it the old fashion way, requesting records which could take a few days instead of a few minutes.

Orlando and Lakeland Regional are the closest ones in Florida that downloads records on a routine basis.

 

[smcinoz]

Years ago, they were trying to implement universal health records so that wherever you went in the US your next doctor could pull up your medical record and see what was going on.

Australia now has started up some ehealth record thing, gives you access to your own records, i should know more about it since i work for humanservices (Welfare / Medicare /Child Support)

From what I can tell they're still doing it the old fashion way, requesting records which could take a few days instead of a few minutes

 

[bigjohn]

Canadians and Australians debating US healthcare, who would have thought! If only some of our leaders would actually debate in good faith maybe we would solve some of our problems.

For a lot of years our citizens were clamoring for healthcare reform but no politicians wanted to put anything on the table or express which direction it should go. Obama showed reals balls by actually doing something.

I think when history looks at Obama he will be remembered as one of our most beloved Presidents. I look at it like this, you can find more individuals in the US who would be willing to take a bullet for him than any other President I can remember. Probably quite a few that would be willing to deliver it also but that's been pretty much a constant here.

Biden 2016

 

[Nifty29]

Where's the difference? If you're forced to pay for my healthcare or forced to pay for my new car, it makes no difference: I profit from your money even if I don't know you and you don't agree with it. This is a cold hard fact with no "moral thing to do" or other subjective thoughts involved.

I like facts.

So you believe that health care is a luxury and should only be available to those that can afford it?

Nice to know you hold human life in such high regard.

If you're living comfortably and have all you need, what's the big deal about giving a tiny bit back into the community to help the vulnerable?

It almost amounts to "what's mine is mine......so piss off and die"

I just cannot understand the thinking.

 

[max1mike]

obamacare harkens back to "taxation without representation".

if we don't buy health insurance, we get fined.

does anyone seriously believe this is gonna work?

ever?

small busines will limit hours and cut employees to fall below the threshold of having to provide the coverage.

if anyone believes that people will not just say "fuck it. I'll pay the fine" until they need medical care, is fooling themselves, as thats what is allowed under this bullshit socialist program.

we can pay the fine, until we get sick, then get the coverage, get treatment, and cancel and return to paying the fine.

yeah. that'll work.

 

[bigjohn]

obamacare harkens back to "taxation without representation".

if we don't buy health insurance, we get fined.

does anyone seriously believe this is gonna work?

ever?

small busines will limit hours and cut employees to fall below the threshold of having to provide the coverage.

if anyone believes that people will not just say "fuck it. I'll pay the fine" until they need medical care, is fooling themselves, as thats what is allowed under this bullshit socialist program.

we can pay the fine, until we get sick, then get the coverage, get treatment, and cancel and return to paying the fine.

yeah. that'll work.

Taxation without representation is what the middle class had for too long.

I work for a small business and I pay for half of my healthcare premium. Always have. Any small business owner who chooses pure profit over the well being of their employees will soon find themselves being former small business owners. The quality of their workers will decline and they will no longer be able to produce goods and services at the rate they were and new opportunities will open up for new owners who will value their workers and the consumers will support them. That will happen fast. Look what happened to that big mouth Papa John's idiot, he almost lost everything. A couple of the stores he closed around where I am are already re-opened under new owners.

I don't know anybody who has lost their health insurance and a lot of times the stories you hear of people who did end up being anti Obama bullshit.

One thing is for sure, the system we had before Obama-does-care was clearly not working very well and something had to be done.

The whole thing may end up being rewritten or trashed but at least Obama stepped up and tried instead just being concerned about getting re-elected and ,lo and behold, he got re-elected anyway. So some people must agree with his policies and they can't all be stupid or uninformed.

 

[Balthazar]

So you believe that health care is a luxury and should only be available to those that can afford it?

I didn't say such thing. The only opinion I expressed is that health care is too expensive and that's the main problem. A broken leg shouldn't cost $5,000 to fix, neither to you directly, nor the government, nor the insurance company. That's my opinion and I don't know any good short term solution.

Public health care isn't great. My dad has been waiting for a knee operation for the last 9 months and he still doesn't know when he will get it. He never goes to the hospital, it's his first operation ever and he's been paying for this system for 35 years now. Maybe we should redefine the words "fair" and "justice".

Meanwhile, the neighbor's dog had to wait a whole day for a leg operation in a private clinic and Canadians that can afford it are flying to the US for anything serious.

 

[skiny]

Like I said before, it's just an opinion.

Some people believe that every single person is entitled to the same care in regards to their health. Rich people shouldn't be healthier than poor people. Private companies shouldn't decide if you qualify for treatments. If you disagree with these statements then nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

It's the strong's duty to look after the weak and the rich's duty to look after the poor. Darwinism only works in the wild. It's not a civilized way of life. One of the very few things that separates human from every other animal is that survival of the fittest no longer applies. Yes there are people who live by this rule but those are the ones feeding off society not contributing to it.

Personally, I think it's a pretty sad day when Skiny is the one preaching goodwill toward man.

Besides, it's not socialist or communist to want everyone to be healthy. Healthy people are productive people. Today's poor may well be tomorrow's rich but not if they struggle with injury or disease that they can't afford to treat. I'm not promoting Obamacare because I don't know enough about it. I do know that private industry looks after people who can afford to pay for it and that's not the way health care should work. Nobody should be able to say "I can't afford health care."

 

[Pinababy69]

skiny, if I could I would give you so much reputation points your computer would catch fire.

Ditto that Swampy!!

Where's the difference? If you're forced to pay for my healthcare or forced to pay for my new car, it makes no difference: I profit from your money even if I don't know you and you don't agree with it. This is a cold hard fact with no "moral thing to do" or other subjective thoughts involved.

It is a HUGE difference IMO...one is a luxury or "non necessity" item (I have never owned a car, new or otherwise btw), the other is a basic, life necessity. One that every individual from the richest to the poorest should be entitled to.

I am truly one of those rare people to whom material things mean absolutely zilch. The perfect socialist. I don't need a huge home, expensive cars or clothes, jewellery or any of the other trappings, that people measure "success" by. You know why? Cause when I'm gone, I'm gone...and none of it comes with me. I'd rather take some good karma with me, and if that means doing without a new car, or any car, and paying a bit more in taxes so that someone less fortunate can go to the doctor...then sign me up.

Truly...what more do any of us need beyond a clean and comfortable roof over our heads, healthy and nutritious food to eat, clothing on our backs and enough money to just enjoy oneself once in a while? What more is there?

I have never understood people who get so wrapped up in money, and obtaining THINGS...that they forget to live. I'll never be accused of being a capitalist, that's for sure.

 

[Balthazar]

It is a HUGE difference IMO...one is a luxury or "non necessity" item (I have never owned a car, new or otherwise btw), the other is a basic, life necessity. One that every individual from the richest to the poorest should be entitled to.

I am truly one of those rare people to whom material things mean absolutely zilch. The perfect socialist. I don't need a huge home, expensive cars or clothes, jewellery or any of the other trappings, that people measure "success" by. You know why? Cause when I'm gone, I'm gone...and none of it comes with me. I'd rather take some good karma with me, and if that means doing without a new car, or any car, and paying a bit more in taxes so that someone less fortunate can go to the doctor...then sign me up.

Truly...what more do any of us need beyond a clean and comfortable roof over our heads, healthy and nutritious food to eat, clothing on our backs and enough money to just enjoy oneself once in a while? What more is there?

I have never understood people who get so wrapped up in money, and obtaining THINGS...that they forget to live. I'll never be accused of being a capitalist, that's for sure.

See, I've no problem with the minimalist lifestyle, but I do have a problem if you count on others to get up and go to work every morning so you can have that comfortable roof and nutritious food. It shouldn't be MY duty to make sure that YOU live adequately, that's all I'm saying.

That doesn't mean that I'm heartless or a capitalist pig, I'd share my last piece of bread with any hungry stranger without a second thought. I just don't believe that people should rely on others to provide them "necessities". I'm not a rich man, but people with money doesn't and shouldn't owe me anything (including health care). It's their stuff, not mine and I've no moral right to take it unless they offer it first.

 

[bigjohn]

I'm not a rich man, but people with money doesn't and shouldn't owe me anything (including health care). It's their stuff, not mine and I've no moral right to take it unless they offer it first.

I can't agree to that. Wealthy people got that way, from what I mostly see, by stepping on everyone they can on the way up.

I know some extremely wealthy people from working at their homes. Most of them would just as soon spit on you than throw you a $20 after you worked all day there and did extra stuff for them that they wont be billed for (could you do this and that while your here). Then they haggle with my boss over every dime.

Years later, when they get indicted, you find out they were cheating and stealing and playing outside the rules that govern us commoners. There is no way you can make $50-100 million or more a year by following all the rules. You gotta be overcharging the shit out of somebody or being creative in your business.

I'm a hard worker and have had the same job continuously for 30 years, I pay my own bills and take care of myself but in the end I think they owe all of us a certain amount.

 

[Balthazar]

I can't agree to that. Wealthy people got that way, from what I mostly see, by stepping on everyone they can on the way up.

I know some extremely wealthy people from working at their homes. Most of them would just as soon spit on you than throw you a $20 after you worked all day there and did extra stuff for them that they wont be billed for (could you do this and that while your here). Then they haggle with my boss over every dime.

Years later, when they get indicted, you find out they were cheating and stealing and playing outside the rules that govern us commoners. There is no way you can make $50-100 million or more a year by following all the rules. You gotta be overcharging the shit out of somebody or being creative in your business.

I'm a hard worker and have had the same job continuously for 30 years, I pay my own bills and take care of myself but in the end I think they owe all of us a certain amount.

Are you being serious right now? Do you actually believe that "most" rich people got their money by cheating the system and for that, they all owe us money and must pay for our shit?

 

[skiny]

See, I've no problem with the minimalist lifestyle, but I do have a problem if you count on others to get up and go to work every morning so you can have that comfortable roof and nutritious food. It shouldn't be MY duty to make sure that YOU live adequately, that's all I'm saying.

That doesn't mean that I'm heartless or a capitalist pig, I'd share my last piece of bread with any hungry stranger without a second thought. I just don't believe that people should rely on others to provide them "necessities". I'm not a rich man, but people with money doesn't and shouldn't owe me anything (including health care). It's their stuff, not mine and I've no moral right to take it unless they offer it first.

I guess this is where we disagree. I think it is everyone's duty to make sure that everyone else lives "adequately." It's the entire base that a healthy and productive society is built on. Some will do better than others and some will even live in the lap of luxury and nobody is begrudging anyone of that but in a productive society no person should be forced to live with poverty. No person should be forced to live with illness and no person should be forced to live without protection.

Private enterprise takes advantage of the consumer. Competition among businesses will keep costs down to a certain extent but all businesses will be operating on basically the same model. They will make as much profit as they can while giving as little as possible in return. Capitalism is fine for most businesses but it is not the way that health care or health care insurance should work.

Full on communism doesn't work either. That's been proven. But full on capitalism is no better. A balance is necessary for every citizen to be afforded a safe and healthy life while allowing free enterprise, entrepreneurship and good old fashion hard work to decide who rises to the top. It is to every society's disadvantage that they restrict health care to the rich or at least moderately wealthy. The short term savings will not overcome the long term cost.

 

[bigjohn]

Are you being serious right now? Do you actually believe that "most" rich people got their money by cheating the system and for that, they all owe us money and must pay for our shit?

While I don't believe they must pay for anything in particular for me or anyone else I do certainly believe the first part and I believe they have a debt to the society that provided the opportunity that allowed them to prosper. And I also believe most of them got their wealth by gaming the system.

Unless you dug up your wealth on the beach or inherited it you absolutely stepped on a lot of little people along the way. Maybe made someone else look bad to help get that promotion, figured a way to make a certain deal look very good for everybody but only turned a profit for yourself, pushed lawmakers to allow certain loopholes that nobody else could possibly interpret and take advantage of. There are a million little decisions made along the way that you could make where it either helps everybody a little bit or helps yourself a lot.

Take my example of the Papa John's guy. For 2011 he netted about $2.8 million so for the pizzas he sells something like $0.08 per pie goes to his salary. If he added another $0.15 per pie he could comply with the law and cover all his employees with healthcare but he wont do it, he would rather skirt the law and cut hours and layoff workers because he does not value them and refuses to provide the very people who make him wealthy with basic health. He already owns houses and cars and stocks and retirement monies and who knows what else. He figures he is worth 8 cents per pie but all his employees combined are not worth 15 cents per pie. I would call that stepping on the little guy.

And that's a small guy, how about Exxon profits of $10 billion a quarter while gas prices have never been higher? Why not cut your own a little to say $5 billion and lower our prices a little bit. Nope, just keep raising until the middle class has nothing left and we all croak. There is so much wealth in the US that there is no excuse for some of the suffering that goes on here.

I think it's great that someone can make millions here but with that I think comes a little responsibility to the less fortunate and the people who got you there. The relentless pursuit of profit, above all else, is not going over very well here when we have the largest divide between rich and poor.

I don't want what they got because I don't need it right now. But if I ever I do I think they all owe me a little because I bought all their goods and services for my whole life.