new fotb stakes

shadow123

Senior Member
MM
Sky news say that the UKGC have recommended new FOBT stakes of £2 on slot games,£30
on others.Money talking as usual,the roulette will still generate a fortune for the bookies
and treasury.
 
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CasinoNinja

Experienced Member
MM
Well, it's a step in the right direction as the roulette games are at least "fair", by having the same RTP roughly as normal roulette games, allthough they have different variants.

2£ on normal games is good news, as they have games where you can choose a big bet for up to £50 a spin with no more than 92-93% RTP and a max cashout of £500!! Thats madness.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
I think you will find it will cost the industry millions of pounds in the long run as most of the profit comes from high roller roulette players(playing £100 a spin). From my observation these players are generally covering an average of about 10 numbers with the max bet on probably 3 or so. I don't think for 1 moment they will be interested if they can only bet say £3 on each number. It would be the same as a slot player who normally plays £1 a spin being capped at 20p.They wouldn't bother. .Personally I think they have got what they deserve they have been ripping their punters off since day 1. There is no doubt they are badly rigged and not a chance the roulette pays any where near the percentage it should AND NOT A PRAYER THEY ARE RANDOM.
 

PMKFRUITPRO

Experienced Member
Always amazes me how online gambling seems to get such an easy ride compared to high street bookies.

It’s as if the daily mail readers don’t realise that you can pull out your mobile phone and spin off £5k in one go.

Neither do the government either it seems. Let’s cap the slot spins to £2 in the bookies but completely ignore the fact you can quickly do a grand feature buy on white rabbit.

I’m sure whatever the outcome they’ll find a way round it.

Something similar to what happened before in the AWP section 16 era. No you can’t do £10 spins any more but if you ‘win’ £10 off your £2 spin then feel free to go into the gamble feature and then spin £10 a pop.

No doubt the bookies legal suits have already numerous plans to make a mockery of the final decision.
 

trancemonkey

Meister Member
I think you will find it will cost the industry millions of pounds in the long run as most of the profit comes from high roller roulette players(playing £100 a spin). From my observation these players are generally covering an average of about 10 numbers with the max bet on probably 3 or so. I don't think for 1 moment they will be interested if they can only bet say £3 on each number. It would be the same as a slot player who normally plays £1 a spin being capped at 20p.They wouldn't bother. .Personally I think they have got what they deserve they have been ripping their punters off since day 1. There is no doubt they are badly rigged and not a chance the roulette pays any where near the percentage it should AND NOT A PRAYER THEY ARE RANDOM.
Ahh - another "it's rigged" post ;)

1. The average bet on roulette in the UK is around £19.60 - higher in London, but still way below £30. So it will actually make very little difference to the bookies. It WILL stop the crazy high bets that most of the problem gamblers have...
2. They aren't rigged - they don't need to be :)
3. Of course they are random. I find it hilarious that people with zero insight can claim rigged - i worked at Inspired so i know the roulette games inside out. The RNG literally pulls a number between 0 and 36. And that's it.

So, you're wrong on all counts i'm afraid :)
 

trancemonkey

Meister Member
Always amazes me how online gambling seems to get such an easy ride compared to high street bookies.

It’s as if the daily mail readers don’t realise that you can pull out your mobile phone and spin off £5k in one go.

Neither do the government either it seems. Let’s cap the slot spins to £2 in the bookies but completely ignore the fact you can quickly do a grand feature buy on white rabbit.

I’m sure whatever the outcome they’ll find a way round it.

Something similar to what happened before in the AWP section 16 era. No you can’t do £10 spins any more but if you ‘win’ £10 off your £2 spin then feel free to go into the gamble feature and then spin £10 a pop.

No doubt the bookies legal suits have already numerous plans to make a mockery of the final decision.
Actually, the UKGC have already banned gambles where you can play the same game at a higher stake...
The only gambles you're allowed are the pie chart, card, red/black etc...
You can't do a gamble that looks / plays like a slot game if the value you are gambling > £2. This is why Luck O' The Irish had to change...
 

slotter999

Senior Member
Always amazes me how online gambling seems to get such an easy ride compared to high street bookies.

It’s as if the daily mail readers don’t realise that you can pull out your mobile phone and spin off £5k in one go.

Neither do the government either it seems. Let’s cap the slot spins to £2 in the bookies but completely ignore the fact you can quickly do a grand feature buy on white rabbit.

I’m sure whatever the outcome they’ll find a way round it.

Something similar to what happened before in the AWP section 16 era. No you can’t do £10 spins any more but if you ‘win’ £10 off your £2 spin then feel free to go into the gamble feature and then spin £10 a pop.

No doubt the bookies legal suits have already numerous plans to make a mockery of the final decision.
It doesn't make much sense does it. Talking purely about slots how bizarre is it that you can enter a bookies and stake a maximum of £2 on a slot machine and yet while still sitting in that same bookies you could whip out your phone and start doing £1000 spins all perfectly legal and governed by the same commission.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Ahh - another "it's rigged" post ;)

1. The average bet on roulette in the UK is around £19.60 - higher in London, but still way below £30. So it will actually make very little difference to the bookies. It WILL stop the crazy high bets that most of the problem gamblers have...
2. They aren't rigged - they don't need to be :)
3. Of course they are random. I find it hilarious that people with zero insight can claim rigged - i worked at Inspired so i know the roulette games inside out. The RNG literally pulls a number between 0 and 36. And that's it.

So, you're wrong on all counts i'm afraid :)
Really well.You have all ready admitted in your other posts that rngs aren't truly random.Oh but now all of a sudden they are.There is no such thing as being close to random it either is or it isn't and anything that is programmed CANNOT BE RANDOM.
 

trancemonkey

Meister Member
Really well.You have all ready admitted in your other posts that rngs aren't truly random.Oh but now all of a sudden they are.There is no such thing as being close to random it either is or it isn't and anything that is programmed CANNOT BE RANDOM.
Oh God - here we go again...

PRNG's (the mersenne-twister that we use) is industry standard - and no it's not "truly" random, but it's random enough that it passes all the tests required by the regulators (Chi-Sqaured test for example). Here's a link to it -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
. It is as close to truly random as it is possible to get programmatically. Feel free to explain to me how this "non-truly-random RNG" is rigged - be sure to include facts and science if you can find any. And not just some guy on youtube or CM that says "it's all rigged".

So yes, for all intents and purposes it's random. This idea that it's not "truly" random and therefore rigged is pure rubbish - and is a problem a number of people on this forum seem to have.

The game asks the RNG for a number between 0 and 36. That's it. It receives this number and then the ball lands there. Simple really.
 

trancemonkey

Meister Member
It doesn't make much sense does it. Talking purely about slots how bizarre is it that you can enter a bookies and stake a maximum of £2 on a slot machine and yet while still sitting in that same bookies you could whip out your phone and start doing £1000 spins all perfectly legal and governed by the same commission.
The theory goes that casinos have a lot more data on you than a bookies, as you need to register, so they should be able to spot problem gambling sooner, and with the "sources of wealth" checks they have started doing, it should be safer.

But i have to say i agree with you - it's the next area the Daily Mail will go after - guaranteed. Although it would kill a LOT of casinos if they reduced the max stake - as they need the high rollers to survive...

You could then also argue casinos should limit the table max wager to a low value right?

It's a very hard balance...
 

Jono777

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
mm4
Compensated random, like arcade B3's ;)
 

shadow123

Senior Member
MM
Correct that anything programmed cannot be truely random.
Donkeys years ago I worked on pre mpu electronic slots where the rng was generated from white noise from diodes.
That was a lot nearer to true random.
 
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snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Slots have been rigged since day 1.Go back as far as you can from the days when it was a penny a spin and you got 2p back for a cherry on the first reel(at least it was a win in those days).Were those slots random? No of course they weren't.If the jackpot was a pound the slot would pay it out when it had taken sufficient funds to do so and wouldn't pay it again until the cycle repeated.Take the old poker machines where you could double your winnings by guessing if the next card would be higher or lower than the 1 you could see.How many times did you get to the crucial gamble(say doubling £200 to £400)with a 3 going higher only to hit a 2 time after time was this random? No of course not it's a fail safe within the programme to stop it paying out to much. Just because software has advanced so much and slots have "all singing all dancing" screens and hundreds of side shows going on don't be fooled into thinking anything has changed. You are probably thinking why do I play online if that is the case.Well I have played slots in every place you can think of pretty much and without doubt slots online do pay out a lot more than any other option available. For anyone who is familiar with FOBTS answer this honestly.How many times could you play a FOBT with a 100% deposit bonus(£25 gives you £50 to start) wager it 35 times and walk away with a nice balance.In my opinion hardly ever yet online it is quite feasible.That alone tells a story.
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Ahh - another "it's rigged" post ;)

1. The average bet on roulette in the UK is around £19.60 - higher in London, but still way below £30. So it will actually make very little difference to the bookies. It WILL stop the crazy high bets that most of the problem gamblers have...
2. They aren't rigged - they don't need to be :)
3. Of course they are random. I find it hilarious that people with zero insight can claim rigged - i worked at Inspired so i know the roulette games inside out. The RNG literally pulls a number between 0 and 36. And that's it.

So, you're wrong on all counts i'm afraid :)
The average bet in the UK is £19.60 higher in London.Got to smile at that 1 last time I checked London was in the UK.Also "it won't make much difference to the bookies".The average has been arrived at with a considerable amount of players playing £100 a spin if they could only play £30 the average will drop dramatically how will that not affect profit in the long run? and if what you're saying is true why would bookies have fought to keep the £100 spin if they didn't think it would make a difference?
 

shadow123

Senior Member
MM
Think it is only recommended at the mo, still chance for the bookies wine and dine the treasury yet.
Think the bookies will get off light if the stake is £30,the options were something like £2,£20,£30,£50.note no option between 2 and 20,
should have been 5 or 10 options.£30 will hurt a bit but there is only so much gambling money in the pot, it will just take a little longer
to lose it.
 

SlotGrinder

Senior Member
I don't get the hate for FOBTs either when you compare it to online play
When you play a FOBT you generally have to take your cash and stuff it in the machine . To me this is way more of a "reality check" than simply pressing "quick deposit" on an online casino
FOBT's have much lower max bets than online and lower potential winnings also makes them less attractive to play
I guess before FOBT the average punter's money would last longer because they'd bet on horses and dogs and then have to wait for the race etc but tbh they are much more likely to get bad odds betting on a dog than on roulette although you will get a lot more bets on roulette in the same amount of time
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Think it is only recommended at the mo, still chance for the bookies wine and dine the treasury yet.
Think the bookies will get off light if the stake is £30,the options were something like £2,£20,£30,£50.note no option between 2 and 20,
should have been 5 or 10 options.£30 will hurt a bit but there is only so much gambling money in the pot, it will just take a little longer
to lose it.
Yeah you can tell these sort of things are put in place by people who have no common sense or practical experience of reality.If they really wanted to help the problem gamblers it would be capped at £2 a spin end of story.What they will be more interested in is how can we be seen to be doing something with the smallest risk to profits(basically "what can we get away with).It was reduced to £50 a few years back but the minute it came into effect the bookies had found a way to counteract it by introducing a card that still enabled people to spin £100.Also you could still spin £100 if you got a member of staff to load the money onto the machine via the counter.I remember being around the bookies at the time and the staff were onto punters like vultures trying to force these cards on people.They are told to do this by upper management because the industry depends on it now.Like you say there is only so much money in the pot and the people it won't affect will just take longer to lose their money but they will lose a lot of high rollers because their "fix" is hitting max bet to win £500.To achieve this they will only be able to cover 2 numbers so they will convince themselves the odds aren't good.Which if you are playing true roulette they are not.Truth is FOBT roulette is just a glorified slot when it's time to pay out if you only cover 1 number you will hit it.
 

trancemonkey

Meister Member
The average bet in the UK is £19.60 higher in London.Got to smile at that 1 last time I checked London was in the UK.Also "it won't make much difference to the bookies".The average has been arrived at with a considerable amount of players playing £100 a spin if they could only play £30 the average will drop dramatically how will that not affect profit in the long run? and if what you're saying is true why would bookies have fought to keep the £100 spin if they didn't think it would make a difference?
You obviously know more than i do... your experience of working in the industry, making B2 slot games and roulettes, working with the UKGC and seeing facts and figures from the bookmakers on average bets is obviously wwwwaaaayyyy more than mine. So i'll leave you to it :)
 
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