New Bonus Type

[Zoozie]

I agree with SlotJunkie and Aka, though they disagree a little.

But lets say I deposited and lost and then got the bonus.

I would cash out the bonus immediately. Playing any game with some real variance (slots/VP) would be utterly stupid with cashout restrictions, since the effective payout is MUCH less than what you think. Or as Slotjunkie say grind it out on blackjack with minimum bet, but this is not fun.

Basically I really dislike bonuses with max-cashout restrictions.

But the XXLBonus is still decent. For me it would be a 25% cashback offer with no strings attached.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Good point...

Was this an ongoing bonus available on every deposit, or a one-time-only type of thing?

It's supposed to be a returning promotion to our loyal players. Also we would love to offer this on a weekly basis or daily basis with different kickback %

 

[XXLClubCasino]

well, you cracked it v-dub. dang, you're clever. xxl will not be pleased.

if this reaches 2+2 (or forum.fok.nl if dutch are allowed to play there), the casino will go out of business, unless they cut this promo in time.

has anyone played it yet? or was xxl just running it past us here first to surmise the foreseeable effects?

if i had scads of money i'd go give it a whirl, but all my funds are tied up so viciously right now, i haven't been able to play for one reason or another in the past two weeks.

We did run the promotion 3 days long from Saturday to Monday on invitation only with a maximum kickback of 200.

 

[bridgehajen]

Like several other pointed out, this is basically a 25% insurance that you would want to cash out right away. You would want to play the initial deposit aggressively with a high goal (I'd choose at least 8x) or bust.

Using this strategy, it's easily abused and if I were the XXL management I would offer this by invitation only. Further, I would remove the limit on wins since it is both silly and counterproductive for the casino; you want people to keep playing, not cash out immediately. The longer people keep playing, the more you will win, even if you factor in the occasional jackpot. If you don't immediately grasp this, you should go back and study Gambling Math 101.

A 25% insurance bonus is too small for my taste, so I would pass on this one anyway. But the idea is interesting, it's always fun to see a new concept and the discussion is interesting as well.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Also - if the cashout is 50%, you should provide clear instructions in the cashier as to how to go about entering a withdrawal amount. There will always be the question of whether the player should subtract 50% when they enter the amount they wish to withdraw, or will the casino subtract the 50% from what the player entered. For example, if the player worked the kickback up to $200, and their original deposit was $100, which is what they want to withdraw, does the player enter $200 or do they enter $100 as the withdrawal amount?

Both are valid procedure either you place 200 and our finance team will approve 100 and cut the other 100 or you place 100 and your remaining balance get zeroed.

 

[tencardcharlie]

Skip the "keep 50% of your balance" thing. 50% of the cashback you offer is bogus money.* It would be exactly the same thing to give the player 25% cashback and let them cash out the whole balance, but much less confusing. And more honest as players will not be tricked into believing that the fake money have some value.

Payout % over all games are between 96 and 110%

I'm rich!

*Edited to add: There is a small difference between a 25% cashback and the 50% of a 50% cashback deal as you will be able to generate more comps with the latter.

 

[Zoozie]

Skip the "keep 50% of your balance" thing. 50% of the cashback you offer is bogus money.* It would be exactly the same thing to give the player 25% cashback and let them cash out the whole balance, but much less confusing. And more honest as players will not be tricked into believing that the fake money have some value.

I agree that it just add to confusion and try to make the offer sound a lot better than it is. Keep it simple and you will also save yourself a lot of problems later with angry customers over bonus/max-cashout disputes.

Intercasino has a near perfect bonus system with extremely few complaints. There are basically just 2 types of easy to understand bonuses:
1) (BONUS)Instantly credited, and comes with wagering requirement
2) (REWARD) Will be credited upon completing a wagering requirement and
are then instantly withdrawable.

Besides the players can see their current wagering requirement at any time and allowed games.

I understand it could cost money to give 50% bonuses of type 1). But then give 25% or 20% bonuses, instead of invented something complicated up to
cheat inexperienced players. (the 50% is actually only a 25% ) cashback

I remember another interesting thread about nearly the same subject.
3Dice casino had come up with a bonus that was even more ridiculous that this one. But I can not find the thread, unfortunately.

Zoozie

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Skip the "keep 50% of your balance" thing. 50% of the cashback you offer is bogus money.* It would be exactly the same thing to give the player 25% cashback and let them cash out the whole balance, but much less confusing. And more honest as players will not be tricked into believing that the fake money have some value.



I'm rich!

*Edited to add: There is a small difference between a 25% cashback and the 50% of a 50% cashback deal as you will be able to generate more comps with the latter.

I honestly don't believe we want to trick any player with this bonus, the whole idea was to create exactly the opposite, an appealing, simple bonus with no restrictions.

As we learn discussing this new bonus proposition in this thread it's not an easy task and I really enjoy reading all your comments, we will surely be able to find a consensus that will make both happy, the players and the casino.

At this point we need to keep in mind that gambling means risking something to get something, of course players would prefer to get 100% kickback on their deposit and be able to cash it out, but it's not serious.

BTW overall payout % for June was 100.2%

 

[Zoozie]

BTW overall payout % for June was 100.2%

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

You mean the normal payout% for all games? Ie. (total pay $)/(total bets$) over
Or is it what the casinos (withdrawals$)/(deposits$) ? - which means bonuses
are included in the payout%.

Unless some big progressives was hit or the playerbase is very small, it is not
possible to get such a result over million of games and especially not if many of the games was on slots.

Zoozie

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

You mean the normal payout% for all games? Ie. (total pay $)/(total bets$) over
Or is it what the casinos (withdrawals$)/(deposits$) ? - which means bonuses
are included in the payout%.

Total wins/Total bets

 

[tencardcharlie]

I honestly don't believe we want to trick any player with this bonus, the whole idea was to create exactly the opposite, an appealing, simple bonus with no restrictions.

Just for clarity: I don't believe that the purpose is to trick anyone, I just feel that having this unnecessarry 50% rule might have the unwanted effect that some players will deposit on false premises.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

For those interested in the performance achieved from this promotion 0.2% in favor of the casino (payouts % to player participating in the promotion 99.8%)

The sample data is small but shows clearly that the players wanting to risk all of their deposits (max 400) in a couple of hands were successful doing so, when busted decided mostly to play and try to breakeven. This contrast to the prediction that players would prefer to directly cashout the kickback.

I understand from this that gambling is also a source of entertainment for certain players, so surely not the majority of the meister members.

Based on this result I think this offer was a great one for players but not for the casino, despite what some poster assumed.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Just for clarity: I don't believe that the purpose is to trick anyone, I just feel that having this unnecessarry 50% rule might have the unwanted effect that some players will deposit on false premises.

I believed that to give the choice to players to either cashout 25% or play with 50% was a better offer.

 

[tencardcharlie]

I believed that to give the choice to players to either cashout 25% or play with 50% was a better offer.

It is a slightly better offer, as one will gain more comp points and also players who always bet the minimum will get more gameplay (by effectively betting half the usual minimum). Other than that, the offers are identical.

 

[happygobrokey]

well, there are tons of ways to play it, and since it seems to be limited to once daily or less frequently, it is not as susceptible to abuse as it may look. but it also isn't really cheating the player because it is very clear about everything that is to take place. the only cheat is if the player uses the offer in a way that is not optimal, and they (the players) are only cheating themselves.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have thought of a variation on my earlier strategy, instead of cashing in the 25%, play one further hand of Blackjack or Roulette with the full 50% rebate, in effect using it as a sticky bonus with no playthrough. This would further enhance the +EV, and minimise the effect of the 51% or so of losing hands, or 55% losing roulette spins.
It would entail playing Blackjack or Roulette at one or two hands per week to be guaranteed a long term profit, but the wafer thin 0.2% edge the casino experienced while most players had not cottoned on to this shows this offer will not last long in the proposed form, especially when the Dutch find out about it

 

[Publo]

I've received this promo offer and lost $400 but I have one question.

Promo e-mail says:

From this FREE kick back money you can play any game you want or decide to directly cash it out. At cashout time we will take away 50% of your winnings generated from the FREE bonus, please also note that the maximum cashout from the FREE bonus is equal to the amount you have previously deposited.

IMHO winnings generated from FREE bonus is everything I win on top of that kickback, right? In that case I should receive 100% of my withdrawal which is $200.

 

[happygobrokey]

I've received this promo offer and lost $400 but I have one question.

Promo e-mail says:



IMHO winnings generated from FREE bonus is everything I win on top of that kickback, right? In that case I should receive 100% of my withdrawal which is $200.

the wording states it that way, but on an earlier page of this thread it is clarified that they only allow you to withdraw 50% of the balance whether you play with it or not.

looks like you only come here (or at least only bother to contribute) when you have a problem yourself, so i wouldn't expect you to have read this. at least you came on to post the positive resolution of your issue wrt casino 770. this is a sweet resource and a vibrant community. i hope you invest more time reading and posting here in future. it's mutually beneficial. and a hoot to boot!

 

[Publo]

Yes, I saw that but do I need to read Casinomeister to find promotion rules? :/

I'm sure that 90% of players that received this kickback won't realize that in fact that's only 25% cashback. I myself made a withdrawal for $200 but I cancelled it after reading that post.

Another misleading e-mail I received after receiving the cashback:

You have just received your "Best Bonus Ever" kickback for an amount of $200.00!

There is no wagering requirements nor any game restriction associated with this bonus!

Please note that when you initiate a withdrawal 50% of your winnings from this free money will be subtracted and that your maximum withdrawal amount will be 2x $200.00.

That's the sting in this "no string attached" offer.




And I know, I know I'll post some nice winnings screenshots soon. Gambling isn't all about problems

 

[MPB]

I have thought of a variation on my earlier strategy, instead of cashing in the 25%, play one further hand of Blackjack or Roulette with the full 50% rebate, in effect using it as a sticky bonus with no playthrough. This would further enhance the +EV

That does NOT enhance the EV.
Just do the math:
You bet 50$, win half of the time you win 50$ of which you can cashout 25$ and you lose your cashable 25$ the other half of the time. Overall this makes an EV of 25$, at least if you neglect the HA.
Or put in other words, you cannot win anything with your non-withdrawabkle half of the cashback, since you will never be allowed to cashout that half of your winnings.

 

[happygobrokey]

Yes, I saw that but do I need to read Casinomeister to find promotion rules? :/ ...

i don't appreciate rhetorical questions. and the correct answer would be yes if you changed "find" to "understand" in many cases.

and it isn't so far of a stretch to imagine the cashback is considered a win for losing all your money. cashing out without even playing is loosely still a win of sorts. it isn't like this is the first casino to word something poorly.

another casino states they are "giving away 5 free iphones to all new registrations", i am sure they mean randomly choosing five new players to win a single iphone, but the words suggest something far different.

 

[happygobrokey]

thank you for just a thank publo. that means a lot. i was wondering if what i said came off harshly, and i am glad it did not. as we all know, casinomeister's is THE place for quality casino knowledge and resources, as well as a swell group of (mostly) intelligent people. and that "mostly" is to be taken both jointly and severally (that is, all of us and each of us). speaking of jointly, time to wind down and get ready for bed...

 

[KasinoKing]

I've received this promo offer and lost $400 but I have one question.

Promo e-mail says:

From this FREE kick back money you can play any game you want or decide to directly cash it out. At cashout time we will take away 50% of your winnings generated from the FREE bonus, please also note that the maximum cashout from the FREE bonus is equal to the amount you have previously deposited.

IMHO winnings generated from FREE bonus is everything I win on top of that kickback, right? In that case I should receive 100% of my withdrawal which is $200.

That's exactly what I said in my first or second post in this thread - the wording needs to be unambiguous.

To me, "Winnings generated from your bonus" means only my profit, and not the bonus itself.

It's like some casino softwares where if you're playing a $100 hand of blackjack & win it says "You win $200!". What bollox! It should only say "You win $100!"

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Here the second edition of the bonus adapted with most of your inputs and a lot easier now. It went out to all or players today. We will take the calculated risk to get hit by some strategic players and see how it will went out. The expectation is clearly negative for the casino but we see it as a reward for our players.

Best Bonus Ever Second Edition:

Simply login to your account and deposit any amount up to 400$, should you loose your deposit in total we will give you 25% of it back!

From this FREE kick back money you can play any game you want or decide to directly cash it out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example:

Deposit 100$, play any games the way you want, win and cashout at any time all of your winnings

Or

Deposit 100$, play any games the way you want, loose your 100$, get 25$ FREE money back, play any games you want or cash it out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* You must have received this promotional email to be eligible to participate in the XXL Club Best Bonus Ever program.
* This is a one time offer and expires 3 days from today's date (11/08/2007) at 00.00 EST.
* No wagering requirements, No restricted games.
* The maximum total kickback bonus given is 100$//.
* Bonuses apply to the day in which the deposit is made.
* Bonus/deposit amounts are the same in all currencies: 100 = $100 = 100.
* Please review our Bonus Terms and Conditions.

 

[KasinoKing]

Best Bonus Ever Second Edition:

Simply login to your account and deposit any amount up to 400$, should you loose your deposit in total we will give you 25% of it back!

From this FREE kick back money you can play any game you want or decide to directly cash it out.

You know I'm always Frank & Honest;
First impression: What a load of crap!

All it is now is 25% of your losses back. Whoopie-do!
That's not a bonus, that's just compensation for having a rotten time.
Any 'so called' bonus which you only get by losing all of your deposit first is not a bonus at all in my opinion.

Nothing personal - just my 2c.
KK