New Slot Announcement New 3Dice slot - 'DICE FUSION', 3Dice does Reactoonz

[Siohmy]

I“I'm curious as to how they got the computer to put so many 'I'm going to be a total wanker' sequences”

Unfortunately, this accounts for 99% of new slot design. Forget entertainment, go for maximum trolling.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Unfortunately, this accounts for 99% of new slot design. Forget entertainment, go for maximum trolling.

It feels worse somehow with the cluster games though, like, missing a big win by one reel stop in a game with proper reels, such as Arctic Adventure, I'm fine with, because you know it's what the RNG picked and it's just good fortune wasn't quite with you - so better luck next time.

But watching the reactions in Dice Fusion dick you over feels like more of a slap in the face because you know that sequence was deliberately constructed to play out like that, and you know if that ball ever got picked out of the bag again, it'd play out exactly the same way.

The number of Gargantoon setups there are in this game that go into the Gargantoon round with a 750x capable setup, but then the Gargantoon lands precisely one stop away from where it'd need to be to make the 750x, starts to grate a bit after a while.

I mean, obviously I'm not going to stop until I get the 3000x, but I'll be slightly cross about it the whole time, and probably moan in this thread periodically too.

Out of the monthly achievements, Dice Fusion can do Patience and Shark, the only one it can't do is Deadspin, but a jaunt over to Enchanted Spins will nail that. (I don't bother with Whale anymore since it was 'improved' (i.e. made massively more expensive to finish!)). Slotmaster is a one time only deal and Discovery is more faff than it's worth as it needs Tournament play and I can't be arsed with those.

As you can see these achievements confer real money, so that's £75 per month I can get for doing those three, which when you're determined to chuck as much money down the grid as I am chasing 3000x on Dice Fusion, every little helps!

Enchanted Spins excelled itself at Deadspin this month, managing 33 consecutive spins (!) without a win of any description.

 

[Mattue]

I agree that both winning and losing spins can feel deliberately constructed in this game, but I couldn’t find any evidence to outright prove it either way.

Many times I believe I’m watching a scripted win, only for it to fizzle out before reaching the main feature. When that happens, I then tell myself it was just a scripted losing spin after all.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I agree that both winning and losing spins can feel deliberately constructed in this game, but I couldn’t find any evidence to outright prove it either way.

Many times I believe I’m watching a scripted win, only for it to fizzle out before reaching the main feature. When that happens, I then tell myself it was just a scripted losing spin after all.

Hi Mattue, it's basically been confirmed that Dice Fusion, and all games that work on this principle, with Reactoonz possibly being the 'OG', all the way through the years, taking in Jammin' Jars along the way, and to all similar games in the here and now, essentially have a number of pre-scripted sequences to play out, and each game round is just the RNG making a call to the backend for a 'ball out of the bag', and your client then shows the pre-scripted sequence for that ball.

In the case of Jammin' Jars it was confirmed here at CM by Push Gaming themselves that the game has 1.2m results in its pool, each game round just replays the sequence for that pick. This came to a head when it was noticed that streamers were having the exact same win sequences play out in their streams!

I made some videos about it at the time, which I recently re-uploaded as one longer video, with a new 15 minute intro on the front, as more games than ever seem to work on this principle.

@trancemonkey has also gone on record saying that the maths on these games would basically be impossible to do any other way.

 

[Siohmy]

Certainly the cluster games are kings of the scripted outcome. I mean, who cares if it pushes unrealistic outcomes which do not reflect the likelihood of what’s being presented.
Good luck chasing the 3000x though. Not sure I’d have the patience or the willing cash to go for that bigger challenge myself. Although we don’t have the luxury of the 1000 autospins in the UK. Damn you UKGC! *shakes fist*

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Certainly the cluster games are kings of the scripted outcome. I mean, who cares if it pushes unrealistic outcomes which do not reflect the likelihood of what’s being presented.
Good luck chasing the 3000x though. Not sure I’d have the patience or the willing cash to go for that bigger challenge myself. Although we don’t have the luxury of the 1000 autospins in the UK. Damn you UKGC! *shakes fist*

Alas it's a limit of 200 spin autoplay blocks at 3Dice and has been for a while, the old 1000 spin option was retired quite some time ago.

Quite irritating TBH as it means I have to get up more often from the couch, interrupting my videogame playing/film watching/etc, to attend to the autoplayer on Dice Fusion. Although if I'm already at my PC it doesn't really make much difference.

I'm not entirely sure why they changed it, my suspicion is to make getting the Shark achievement each month require a little more player interaction, but that's just a theory I pulled out of my arse.

 

[mulven]

Alas it's a limit of 200 spin autoplay blocks at 3Dice and has been for a while, the old 1000 spin option was retired quite some time ago.

Quite irritating TBH as it means I have to get up more often from the couch, interrupting my videogame playing/film watching/etc, to attend to the autoplayer on Dice Fusion. Although if I'm already at my PC it doesn't really make much difference.

I'm not entirely sure why they changed it, my suspicion is to make getting the Shark achievement each month require a little more player interaction, but that's just a theory I pulled out of my arse.

I wonder If being hit by some cannonballs will distract from your current quest :machinegunner:

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I wonder If being hit by some cannonballs will distract from your current quest :machinegunner:

Ha! Yes I did a decent chunk of spins on the new game last night and put Dice Fusion to one side.

Cannonball is a pretty decent game IMO, not sure if it's a clone of anything or a proper original 3Dice creation (I'm well out of the loop these days on what other providers are up to), but it's got a lot I like about it.

Best win I managed was 255x (or something like that), I had plenty of features and a couple of four scatters features which didn't go nuts, looking at the rules the five scatters features will be where the big pays really are.

I see they've sent out a decent 20xB WR 100% match offer to coincide with the release so I'll take that and give it a proper lumping away at.

My intention is to do a proper review thread for it here at CM.

 

[Mosse]

OMG, did I just get max win on this slot? It was 3000x, wasnt it?

@3Dice Supersuper big thank you for very quick payout for my winnings!!! You are The best!!!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

OMG, did I just get max win on this slot? It was 3000x, wasnt it?

@3Dice Supersuper big thank you for very quick payout for my winnings!!! You are The best!!!

View attachment 203928

View attachment 203929

It's a new high score on the Zeitgeist!

The max win on this isn't a hard 3000x cap as such, but that configuration you have there with 15+ cluster on the 3Dice symbols, with two 2x2 doubling cubes in there to confer the 4x multiplier, makes 3000x all by itself. It does seem that 3Dice have put quite a variety of ~3000x balls in the bag for the RNG to choose from.

Then it's whatever else on top that made part of that game round up, i.e. not 3000x exactly, but a quite a few different top wins in that zone.

In your case there you do have the dream symbol combo, and you're not even at the Gargantoon round!

Well done I shall continue my lonely quest to replicate your success

 

[SlamRoyale]

Unfortunately, this accounts for 99% of new slot design. Forget entertainment, go for maximum trolling.

This made me cough out my coffee. I was just talking recently to some people on chat about how none of the new titles in a long time even made us try them. They seem to just enjoy taking the laugh at us. You hit something, takes 5 seconds to load some fancy graphic. Then you think ok shit I'm winning something big. Of course not. Just trolling.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

See now this why cluster games annoy me, here's a configuration I've never seen before. I'm not saying it's never occurred before in all the spins I've done on this game, but this is the first time I've happened to have my eye on it whilst it dropped in.

As you can see there are FOUR doubling cubes in there, and this confers an 8x multiplier.

That's the lowest paying symbol, and the cluster pays max out at 15 symbols, anything beyond that makes no difference, so 28 of them at 8x only pays 24x stake.

However, does that sort of configuration exist with the top paying 3Dice symbols? A 15x cluster on the 3Dice symbols pays 750x, my working assumption has been that it maxes out at 4x with two doubling cubes, to make 3000x, the Zeitgeist page suggests so but it only goes back a year and maybe there is an ultra-rare ball in the bag that does it at 8x and pays 6000x?

Cluster games should IMO come with a 'max win' statement as part of the rules. As they're obviously 'ball out of the bag' games the casino knows fine well what balls they put in the bag, and they should tell us.

In the case of Enchanted Spins for example, it was possible to work out yourself what the max pay was from the picks bonus round by reverse engineering a five scatters trigger with perfect picks in each level, because the two variables there are known (how many picks a five scatters trigger awards, and what the possible picks are in each level of the bonus).

In the case of Dice Fusion, we have no idea if the theoretical 6000x ball is in the bag or not. The game has just shown me four doubling cubes can exist in a win, but that's an entirely confected pre-scripted sequence, the player has no way of knowing which other symbols, if any, there's a ball in the bag for that does that.

Compare and contrast with say, Arctic Adventure, which uses 'real reels', and notably the same reel set for free spins that it does for the base game, so five wilds absolutely can land on the maximum 10x multiplier in free spins for a very substantial pay. You'd have to be very lucky to hit it, but at least you know it's there as a win.

Anyway, I'll crack on chasing my ~3000x win on Dice Fusion, it's proving to be quite the endeavour!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Heh, it must have heard me moaning.

Now I just need these buggers with a doubling cube, two doubling cubes, or the four doubling cubes (that may or may not exist as a ball in the bag) for 1500x, 3000x or 6000x (6000x may or may not exist).

Round finished at 813x.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It really can be feast or famine this game, tonight has leaned towards the 'feast' side of things, with a 755x and a 847x, both of which featured the 750x 15+ 3Dice cluster on the Gargantoon round.

I also finished the absolutely fantastic Guardians Of The Galaxy game, which has been massively entertaining from start to finish - trebles all round!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No word of a lie, three spins for this to drop in this morning. The interesting thing about this one is that it was on the final stage of the Gargantoon round with the single wilds, and the board state didn't really look that promising, but the ball out of the bag gods were smiling on me and it was one of those where the sequence had the wilds land just perfectly to make a 750x.

Round finished at 802x.

Anyway, Merry Christmas and all that, I also need to decide which videogame to take on next. It's between Elden Ring, Spider Man and A Plague Tale Requiem.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

There she blows!

1554x

This was on Stage 2 of the Gargantoon round, there was a very tempting looking 2x2 cube of 3Dice symbols on the board and a decent number of 3Dice symbols/wilds, but it still needed a perfect land to make the 2x750x, fortunately the ballbags were on my side.

 

[Mattue]

Nice hit Chopley!

I once had 2 of the 3D cubes on screen as the top feature activated and I was so sure it was going to land right in the middle to connect them both for 3000x.

Well it did land in the middle of something, it landed in the middle of one of the cubes and paid 30x.

It's the most fun slot to play when it's spitting out 750x wins for fun, and I've went of runs of hitting them every day, but when it turns on you, it is very brutal and can easily drain 1000x stake. I imagine when that day comes you'll be straight back to the Jamming Jars is scripted so this game must be too conspiracy. lol

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Nice hit Chopley!

I once had 2 of the 3D cubes on screen as the top feature activated and I was so sure it was going to land right in the middle to connect them both for 3000x.

Well it did land in the middle of something, it landed in the middle of one of the cubes and paid 30x.

It's the most fun slot to play when it's spitting out 750x wins for fun, and I've went of runs of hitting them every day, but when it turns on you, it is very brutal and can easily drain 1000x stake. I imagine when that day comes you'll be straight back to the Jamming Jars is scripted so this game must be too conspiracy. lol

Yeah the swings on this can be pretty insane, on Christmas Eve this was my balance's low point:

Then by the time it'd finished its nice rich run, my balance was here, and this is all on 20p spins!

That's a swing of 3156x from low to high.

Cannonball carried it on and peaked here:

But yes Dice Fusion is a really lumpy game, whilst the headline numbers aren't too insane in terms of max pays or overall volatility in some regards, if it's not chucking in those 750x wins from time to time (or many of the other ways it can do wins up in that ballpark), it'll take apart quite a large multiple of stake.

There's a 300x win it likes to do with a doubling cube for 600x, same with the 150x win - but all of these are rare enough that it's possible to go an extended period without seeing one, and that's when it'll do the damage. (It does feel like classic Play 'N Go volatility to me, which makes sense as this is a Reactoonz clone.)

It's a pretty slow game to play so this sort of masks how dangerous it can be, because it doesn't rattle through the games at much of a rate of a knots.

As for the scripting, this is definitely a scripted game, so you are just watching Jammin' Jars style sequences play out Doesn't mean the game isn't fair and random (same as Jammin' Jars), but also comes with all the same caveats.

Having finally hit 1500x I'll give it a bit of a break now, I was targeting 3000x which we know it can do, but for now this will suffice

 

[Mattue]

Amazing how you can build a balance low-rolling like that. I always raise hoping for another 750x and well, you can imagine how that usually goes. lol

Yeah, I agree Jamming Jars is scripted, but that's because it can't work as a random game. The jars can't be allowed to move in truly random directions, but I don't see the connection between that and Dice Fusion as they're completely different games mechanically and made by different companies.

Games that are scripted always have a quirk that gives them away as they're forced to behave unnaturally, but I've not seen anything in Dice Fusion to suggest it's anything other than truly random.

Maybe you can point something out in all the footage you've recorded? When I took note of the outcomes from the mini features, they appear to do exactly what they say and change to a random symbol, and it wouldn't be possible to have a truly random mini feature within a scripted spin.

I tend to go back and forth between believing it's scripted or not, so it would be nice to know for sure. lol

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Amazing how you can build a balance low-rolling like that. I always raise hoping for another 750x and well, you can imagine how that usually goes. lol

Yeah, I agree Jamming Jars is scripted, but that's because it can't work as a random game. The jars can't be allowed to move in truly random directions, but I don't see the connection between that and Dice Fusion as they're completely different games mechanically and made by different companies.

Games that are scripted always have a quirk that gives them away as they're forced to behave unnaturally, but I've not seen anything in Dice Fusion to suggest it's anything other than truly random.

Maybe you can point something out in all the footage you've recorded? When I took note of the outcomes from the mini features, they appear to do exactly what they say and change to a random symbol, and it wouldn't be possible to have a truly random mini feature within a scripted spin.

I tend to go back and forth between believing it's scripted or not, so it would be nice to know for sure. lol

It was actually @trancemonkey who said that all these cluster style games work on pre-scripted sequences because the maths is just impossible to do any other way.

It's all still there to read in the original Jammin' Jars thread

Post in thread 'Jammin Jars'

Oct 3, 2018

Yep, there's a serious issue here that needs addressing, and sharpish.

What happened with those two streamers is, essentially, impossible to explain by random chance.

This means that someone or something was triggering those win sequences. We already know that 'demo modes' exist (for entirely legitimate reasons) for slot testing and/or slot review purposes, whereby features and events can be deliberately triggered.

However, streamers present themselves as normal people playing slots in a normal fashion, and what we've seen there blows that right out of the water as a big fat lie -...

• trancemonkey

• 

If you think about it logically, with a traditional reel based game you design the reel strips and each game round can be five calls to the RNG, one for each reel, the RNG returns a stop on each reel and the client shows the result. Your RTP is determined by every single combination that the reels can produce, obviously you chuck more low paying symbols on there, and fewer premium symbols, to get the game's T-RTP to 95% or whatever it is you're after.

Back in the day you could reverse-engineer MG games by pulling the reel strips and analyzing them, this was before they showed the RTP in the help files.

For games like Dice Fusion, that's just not a thing, there are no 'reel strips', and if every drop down was a random symbol, your combinations of results would be getting into numbers with so many zeroes on the end your computer would blow up.

As trancemonkey says (and remember, he does this stuff for a living), you way you make games like Dice Fusion or Jammin' Jars, is on a ticket system, or 'ball out of the bag', whatever you want to call it.

In the case of Jammin' Jars, where Push Gaming screwed up was only putting 1.2m results into the bag, so the same sequences kept getting played out by the streamers.

I'd be curious to know how many balls Dice Fusion has in its bag.

To be clear, this is an entirely fair and random way to design a game, but you need to get your head around what it is you're looking at

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I picked Dice Fusion back up at 3Dice after all the Christmas/New Year rankings and whatnot finished, still seeking out that ~3000x big jackpot win.

Here it's done 782x off one of the usual 15+ 3Dice symbol clusters, the interesting point for me at this point is how badly wrong I called this game early on (all still there to read in this thread), when all that really happened is I got off to a spectacularly bad start on it that ran for tens of thousands of game rounds.

I'll need to ask Anna for my latest stats on it, but I suspect I'm in a pretty good spot with it, certainly around RTP and maybe a bit over, and probably at something in the ballpark of 150K game rounds.

It's a lumpy game for sure, and in fairness 3Dice do give it three chillies, however it relies more on 'streaks' of the bigger wins on the paytable, rather than single monster hits, and remember it caps out at the ~3000x mark.

On an upswing it can deliver a 3000x boost and more to your balance without any single win getting close to that figure, but if you're missing the balls out of the bag that yield the better pays, it'll slowly eat away at a balance for a long, long time.

Considering the bad start me and this game got off to, I've grown to actually, dare I say, quite like it.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Amazing how you can build a balance low-rolling like that. I always raise hoping for another 750x and well, you can imagine how that usually goes. lol

Yeah, I agree Jamming Jars is scripted, but that's because it can't work as a random game. The jars can't be allowed to move in truly random directions, but I don't see the connection between that and Dice Fusion as they're completely different games mechanically and made by different companies.

Games that are scripted always have a quirk that gives them away as they're forced to behave unnaturally, but I've not seen anything in Dice Fusion to suggest it's anything other than truly random.

Maybe you can point something out in all the footage you've recorded? When I took note of the outcomes from the mini features, they appear to do exactly what they say and change to a random symbol, and it wouldn't be possible to have a truly random mini feature within a scripted spin.

I tend to go back and forth between believing it's scripted or not, so it would be nice to know for sure. lol

As others have said it will be scripted.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It's clearly started today in a good mood.

4x150x on a basic dropdown reaction delivers a total 602x pay.

Two doubling cubes doing the work there.

I'll be able to put a 14 hour shift in on this today so let's see if it fizzles out or goes on one of its streaks. When I say 'streak' I don't mean as in the context of an old compensated machine that has it literally coded in to save for and dump a streak, I mean as in what a game with this sort of maths model can deliver if the random 'balls out of the bag' gods are running in your favour.

One of these days I'll pick a ~3000x ball out of the bag!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

396x. Let's keep them coming!

 

[Siohmy]

I think, if nothing else, this highlights how slots can run and just how many spins you need to start getting a picture of slot balance. And this is with a slot with “only” a 3000x or thereabouts, jackpot.
If anything else it shows that bitching about a slot with a 50k jackpot is running at 70% after 10,000 spins is completely failing to grasp how these things work.
PS. Slots which still run way behind after 100k spins or more are, in my mind for what it’s worth, a bit shit.